Processing today's session with T

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am trying to process what my T said to me today: Maybe NC is necessary and is what is possible with my uNPD/uBPD mother.  It was tough to hear that and I need help to process it.

My mother uses silent treatment anytime she feels criticized, attacked or not admired enough for the wonderful person/friend/mother she is   . The silent treatments lasts as long as it takes the other part to call her, hear what she has to say (how dare you/ how could you do that/ what a horrible person you are/ I can't believe you are like that, etc..), tell her that she is right and apologize. With my brother, it once lasted 4 years. She does it with my father very frequently, lasting usually days or weeks, and with me which usually lasts around 6 months when I start to feel overwhelmed with anxiety and guilt so I end up calling and apologizing. She did it with her brother and with a neighbour. And maybe with many other people that I don't know of.

I am NC since December. I've told a bit of my history in previous posts. She is giving me the silent treatment for not standing on her side against my husband during a crazy-making, manipulative and full of anger discussion she started with my husband in our house. My husband was polite and just answered a loaded question she made when she was actually trying to attack my brother (her son) by showing how her son-in-law loves her. Her plan didn't work and she got nuts, raged, screamed. While she was raging, I dissociated, pretty badly. It got to a point where I can't physically stand close to her. I needed distance and I finally started to protect me. My father has always been her enabler and avoids conflicts at all costs, so to stay in contact with him I had to set some boundaries which are working well so far. It's hard because as much as I love him, I have to protect myself from him as well.

My T explained that she sees my mother as a low-functioning NP/BPD and that the level of tolerance I have when she is abusive is getting so low that she can't see us maintaining contact. Contact would just last until the next silent treatment. And that I should think about what kind of hopes I am still holding.

This is hard.

[Vanilla Sky]

I am trying to process what my T said to me today: Maybe NC is necessary and is what is possible with my uNPD/uBPD mother.  It was tough to hear that and I need help to process it.

My mother uses silent treatment anytime she feels criticized, attacked or not admired enough for the wonderful person/friend/mother she is   . The silent treatments lasts as long as it takes the other part to call her, hear what she has to say (how dare you/ how could you do that/ what a horrible person you are/ I can't believe you are like that, etc..), tell her that she is right and apologize. With my brother, it once lasted 4 years. She does it with my father very frequently, lasting usually days or weeks, and with me which usually lasts around 6 months when I start to feel overwhelmed with anxiety and guilt so I end up calling and apologizing. She did it with her brother and with a neighbour. And maybe with many other people that I don't know of.

I am NC since December. I've told a bit of my history in previous posts. She is giving me the silent treatment for not standing on her side against my husband during a crazy-making, manipulative and full of anger discussion she started with my husband in our house. My husband was polite and just answered a loaded question she made when she was actually trying to attack my brother (her son) by showing how her son-in-law loves her. Her plan didn't work and she got nuts, raged, screamed. While she was raging, I dissociated, pretty badly. It got to a point where I can't physically stand close to her. I needed distance and I finally started to protect me. My father has always been her enabler and avoids conflicts at all costs, so to stay in contact with him I had to set some boundaries which are working well so far. It's hard because as much as I love him, I have to protect myself from him as well.

My T explained that she sees my mother as a low-functioning NP/BPD and that the level of tolerance I have when she is abusive is getting so low that she can't see us maintaining contact. Contact would just last until the next silent treatment. And that I should think about what kind of hopes I am still holding.

This is hard.

[Sunfl0wer]

Not sure what to offer except I have been NC with my FOO over 15 years.  It was the best thing for me, as I learned who I am without their influences, I do feel I have grown much better for it.  Random people out in the world are way better to help me learn new ways to relate to people especially since other people do not impose their definitions of who I am to be on me, and don’t try to “keep me in my place.”  Well, when they do... I learn to quickly not put up with that crap anymore!

[Turkish]

The silent treatment covers a smouldering, burning rage; an ember which can spark a forest fire. 

Have you tried any validation tools? I don't blame you if you don't feel at the time like using them. 

[Vanilla Sky]

Sunfl0wer and Turkish, thank you for replying and I apologize it took me so long to reply back. I needed some time to have the courage to start thinking about a permanent NC with my mother.

The observation from my Therapist came in the final minutes of the session. Maybe this wasn't something to bring up when there was not enough time to discuss before the next session. I left her office disturbed and anxiety started to build up. And yet, it was positive as I have the tendency to not to face the "hard stuff" until I am pushed to it.

Sunfl0wer, in these few months of NC with my mother I feel that I have grown so much, it's been hard and it's been wonderful. I don't think I would have the energy I needed to go inward and take care of myself if I was still having to worry about being the unrealistic "good daughter" that my mother and father designed for me.  The distance is being so healthy right now, I can feel it in my body. I can breath slowly now, my skin issues are getting a little better.

Turkish, I don't think I have tried the validations tools, and if I did I wasn't consciously doing it. I went gray rock mode in the last couple of years when we remained LC. I started to read about the tools in the last few months but I haven't spoke to my mother yet and I don't think it will happen anytime soon, but I can see that boundaries and the tools are what can make it possible to have a LC relationship with her.

I am continuing processing the idea of a permanent NC and its consequences. It get me very anxious so I have go slow with this.

[Harri]

Hi Vanilla Sky and thanks for the update!   The decision to go permanent NC is a big one, especially emotionally so it makes sense that you are taking it slow and it makes sense that you have anxiety about it.  It also sounds like you are using this period of no contact as a way to heal and build yourself up and that really is what NC is all about!   

I started to read about the tools in the last few months but I haven't spoke to my mother yet and I don't think it will happen anytime soon, but I can see that boundaries and the tools are what can make it possible to have a LC relationship with her.

  The tools like validation, boundaries, SET, Don't Jade help with all relationships, not just pwBPD.  I also found that I had areas where I lacked skills (still do BTW ) given that I did not learn them.  My boundaries were poor, I was frequently invalidating and I JADE'ed my way into bigger and bigger conflicts even with people who do not have BPD.  Learning the tools and starting to use them has helped me heal and feel stronger and more capable. 

My mom used the silent treatment on me <shudders> and I still do not like it but I can cope with it better in terms of not taking it personally when other people go silent on me.  With my mom, after I found out about BPD and learned about boundaries and how much I was abused, I got angry about the silent treatment she gave.  I used that anger to strengthen myself and I pushed back.  It did not always look or sound pretty but over time i got better at dealing with it, at least with my mom (now dead).  My ex also did this and I struggled there too but not as bad.  Now, I do not accept it as part of a relationship though I can also now discern the difference when people withdraw to think and recover rather than punish (silent treatment).

Do you find yourself also struggling with other people going silent or even withdrawing on you?  I am curious how this is for others.

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi Harri! It's nice to hear from you again. How are you doing?

It also sounds like you are using this period of no contact as a way to heal and build yourself up and that really is what NC is all about! 

Yes, definitely. I have had many periods of no contact before that were mostly she giving me the silent treatment and I not knowing what to do, too tired to go through it again and too scared to talk to her. I didn't know what Silent Treatment was. I would just do my best to forget about it and hope that no one would find out as I was too embarrassed of having a mother that would not talk to me, and eventually we would be speaking again. This time I simply couldn't do that anymore. Last time I saw her and things got bad, I didn't leave my bed for two days. I was sad and desperate. I needed help and I was lucky to find this community and a good therapist. Then I started to open up to my husband. With time, No Contact, was making more and more sense and wasn't so impossible as I thought at first. I am very conscious of the decision I made to stay NC and work on myself, and I know the consequences as well - my mother's anger is likely building up, my father got distant, some people don't understand and judge me. I am surviving all that and finding that I am more resilient than I thought.

The tools like validation, boundaries, SET, Don't Jade help with all relationships, not just pwBPD. 

This is very true.

I used that anger to strengthen myself and I pushed back.  It did not always look or sound pretty but over time i got better at dealing with it, at least with my mom (now dead).  My ex also did this and I struggled there too but not as bad.  Now, I do not accept it as part of a relationship though I can also now discern the difference when people withdraw to think and recover rather than punish (silent treatment).

I don't know why but I did not get to feel angry about of the SL. I was scared of it. I still am, but a little less now. I think it actually became a trauma for me. I recall being 7 or 8 years old, coming back from school, my mother would have some food ready for lunch, I would have lunch alone while she was in another room ignoring me, for days. If I needed something for school or if I got sick I just couldn't ask her or she would rage at me. So many time for so many years. Then when she cut off my brother for 4 years, that scared me.

Do you find yourself also struggling with other people going silent or even withdrawing on you?  I am curious how this is for others.

If other people withdraw or go silent, I don't get so affected. I don't get scared of it. But if I know that someone is ignoring me to punish me, my first response would be that I am here to talk, if you don't want to that is your choice, that's none of my business, and will let it go. I don't have anyone else in my life that gives me SL other than my mother, that's good.

[Harri]

I know the consequences as well - my mother's anger is likely building up, my father got distant, some people don't understand and judge me. I am surviving all that and finding that I am more resilient than I thought.

It is great that you are finding out just how strong you are.  Fear tends to make me shrink down and make myself smaller.  Let other people feel what they feel.  They don't have to understand for our choices to be right for us or for our feelings to be valid right?

I get that ST can be a trauma.  I know it was for me.  I can still feel the panic and anxiety I felt when it happened.   

my first response would be that I am here to talk, if you don't want to that is your choice, that's none of my business, and will let it go.

This is excellent.  Can you see yourself saying this to your mother?

I don't have anyone else in my life that gives me SL other than my mother, that's good.

Good to know.  ST is now on my short list of deal breakers for me.

[mutemonkey8]

Hi, Vanilla Sky,
Maybe you've already had a follow up session with your T and so maybe this is too late, but I wanted to share my reaction to what your T said. It may not even be worth two cents, as I am a complete stranger on the internet, but I don't know...sometimes a totally outside perspective can be helpful.

I'm specifically reacting to these statements: "She can't see us maintaining contact" and that you should "think about what kind of hopes I am still holding."

A statement along the lines of "I can't see you maintaining contact" is your T injecting her/himself into your situation. That's not neutrality. Frankly, who cares what your T can or can't see in your future? Not for T to decide. It's one thing to ask something like "Have you ever considered going NC?" and explore the answer. It's another to insert her ideas for your life into your session.

Thinking about what kind of hopes you have for your relationship with your family is also absolutely necessary and worthy of attention. But the way that was presented makes it come off more as "You should really rethink what you're doing here". That is manipulative! And again, designed to push your exploration in a direction that she thinks is "good for you".

I would have panicked hearing that.

And I think that introducing such an absolutely LOADED topic like NC 3 minutes before the session closed is flat out irresponsible. (I've had T's do such things, too.)

Don't let your T push you on this. It's totally, 100% up to you to decide IF, WHEN, AND HOW you communicate - or not - with your family. Period.

[Vanilla Sky]

Can you see yourself saying this to your mother?

I feel that saying that, or just letting the silence go on, is likely going to make me permanently estranged from her. She cuts off communication completely - phone calls, texting, if I show up at her house she won't open the door. It takes a few months for her to take my phone call, and she is exactly in the same state she was when she started the SL, she is angry, victimized and ready with a full speech. She had never made communication with someone she was giving the SL. My enabler father always says "you know how she is, she will never talk to you again unless you [...]".  Ugh!

The sad thing and something I definitely need to work on is that I get stuck when she is giving me SL. It seems that my life stops, waiting to "resolve" things with her. I want to change that.

I appreciate any insights on this.

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi mutemonkey8,

I agree with you, it bothered me that my T would bring that topic at the end of the session. Looking back at the session, her last two questions were "how much do you still worry if something happens to your mother while you are not speaking" (one of my struggles) and "how would you feel if your mother dies". Hard questions that did not have much exploration during the session, and it seems that my answers somehow led to the NC observation. I am guessing, not sure. The next session is next week and I want to see how she is going to resume from here. I will be open with her about how I was feeling when I left her office last time.

Don't let your T push you on this. It's totally, 100% up to you to decide IF, WHEN, AND HOW you communicate - or not - with your family. Period.

I absolutely agree with you. I want to be pushed to think about stuff, but the decisions are ultimately mine and I am the one that will have to live with them.

Thank you, I really appreciate the feedback.

[Tsultan]

Hi Vanilla Sky,

I don't have much to say other than I understand how painful the Silent Treatment can be as my mother used that manipulation tool a lot on me as I was a little girl. 

I like what Harri said about adding that to her short list of boundaries.  I had a 2nd session with my new T and she talked about coming up with a list like that.  That one will be added to my list. 

I echo Turkish in giving those validation skills a go.  I know it's tough though.  You have to be in a good space yourself to be able to do that.  Meaning detached enough that you don't take the silent treatment personal.  That's tough to do when there is a lot history.  I have to be honest when my ex-H used to do that to me there was no way in the world I could just go on and not let it affect me.  Looking back if I had the tools I have now maybe some validation might have helped us out a lot. But you don't know what you don't know.

I am sorry you are going through this. 

[Harri]

The next session is next week and I want to see how she is going to resume from here. I will be open with her about how I was feeling when I left her office last time.

  Good.  It is important to be open with her and if you can't be or she reacts poorly that is important to know too.  Mutemonkey made some really good points there and I am glad. 

Keep us posted.