Maybe my mom was suffering from Complex Trauma

[JNChell]

My dad was a diagnosable NPD. There is no doubt between my Sis and I. She’s a psychologist. I’ve been thinking more about my mom and why she was so violent. My dad was extreme, but not often. My mom was almost daily. At least that’s what my memories tell me. Maybe she wasn’t. I remember what I remember.

My dad was a piece of man-child that sat in a chair and gave orders. Thinking deeper on this, he made the real money in the household. My mom did everything else while holding down a full time job. “everything else” was a BIG list! I’ve openly accused my departed mom of being BPD for the frequent beatings, emotional, verbal and psychological abuse. Maybe she was suffering from extreme PTSD? From what I’ve gathered, pwPTSD can act out in ways like that. I know that she didn’t have a warm mother. She ended up with my dad and went untreated through all of it. Maybe she reached a point of no return.

I know this much. The most conflicting conversation that my Sis and I have ever had was over our mom. My mom was very proud and attentive about Sis. I was basically left out of the convo. I hold nothing against my Sis. I think we’re on the same page in knowing the dynamic.

Anyway, I’ve read accounts of trauma survivors, PTSD/C-PTSD acting out in violent ways. I’m just sharing what I’ve read and not placing an ounce of judgement. I’m diagnosed with C-PTSD. I eventually turned inward when it came to destruction.

Maybe my mom was the product of her cruel mother and enabling father. Maybe she ended up with my dad because of that. Maybe she went untreated and never processed her stuff. If so, I can understand that. She died in 2010, so that secret is kept.

When I really think about it, she presented with not feeling appreciated and too much on her plate at all times. Possibly feeling like she was being taken advantage of. The thing is, all of that is true. Maybe she couldn’t control her emotions when it came to being married to a full blown narcissist.

I don’t know. The memories of the beatings reach back to my first memories. I believe that this is called trauma. I remember her doing it. I remember her face and I remember the volume while she was swinging away in a rage.

I’ve read several different stories about how PTSD can affect behavior, but I’d like to bring my thoughts here on that.

[Notwendy]

Family dysfunction can be transgenerational. I have spent a lot of time in ACA groups ( which include children of dysfunction - without alcohol). Alcoholic family patterns tend to be similar to other families with a dysfunctional person. Also we know abuse is transgenerational- an abused child can grow up to be abusive.

We also tend to seek partners who "match " our dysfunction in some way. It would make sense if your mother was abused that she'd seek out an abusive spouse. It feels familiar to her. Abusive parents can also show love to their child, and so can an abusive person love their spouse. The ups and downs are a part of the pattern between them. If the love/abuse pattern is what a child learns is love, they see it as love with a spouse.

I suspect my mother was sexually abused as a child. I have no proof and don't know who may have done it. I don't think it was an immediate family member and wonder if it was an uncle to her or distant cousin that I didn't know. Nobody on her side of the family has mentioned it, but I suspect it from her behavior. Her FOO are not bad people- they can be kind and do good things, but they are invalidating. Mental illness was not spoken of in her era.

From thinking this, and trying to understand her, it helps me to not blame her for her behavior or be so angry about it. She was once a child growing up in a possibly difficult situation. Yet, our role isn't to keep on resenting our parents for what they did but to try to understand our own behavior so we can change it. The cycle of abuse can stop with us.

[GaGrl]

I will echo Notwrndy's comment about finding partners that reflect family dynamics.

My stepdaughter has done a lot of work around understanding why she chose the two partners she has had. Her comment to me was, "I've married male versions of my mom, twice."

[I Am Redeemed]

It's possible, JNChell. I've read accounts about some pwPTSD and C-PTSD acting out violently. I have C-PTSD, too, though I think I am not as high on the spectrum as others. I will tell you that there were times while still in my r/s with ubpdh that I acted out violently because I was feeling just so overwhelmed (throwing things, screaming, etc). There were times when I lost my cool with my kids and said some mean things that I instantly regretted. I struggle heartily with guilt over letting my kids see me lose control more than I do over anything else in my life. It isn't so bad now that I am no longer in the abusive relationship (so I am not being consistently re-traumatized) but emotional regulation is something I still struggle with. I had begun working on it in emdr therapy, and though I am on hiatus, I will be returning to my therapist soon as she is now settled in her permanent practice.

I think it may be possible that your mother had both C-PTSD and BPD. It's hard to know, really, just going off your memories. I think, though, that the key difference would be awareness of the behavior and how it affected others. I knew that acting out on my emotions was affecting my kids. I felt powerless to completely control it without help, but the point to that is I have sought help for it. I don't want to affect my kids negatively, and I don't want to use other people's mistreatment of me, or some diagnosis or other, as an excuse to act out in ways that harm my kids psychologically. That's not being a good parent. Being a good parent means owning up to my shortcomings and taking steps to get better so I can be the healthiest parent possible for my kids.

Does it change your opinion of your mother to think her issues may be due to C-PTSD instead of BPD? Or both?

[JNChell]

Hi, Notwendy. I always enjoy reading your responses. Thanks for sharing and for the insight. I fully understand how abusive behavior can be passed down from generation to generation. And you’re right, it takes an individual or individuals to cut the head off of that snake. I’m doing that with S4. He’s not being terrorized and he seems to be doing fairly well.

I’ve also come to understand that abused children can grow up to be abusers themselves. I’ve also seen a pathological narcissist that was born from preferential treatment and spoiling. My father. My T, who is a trauma specialist told me that the majority of people who were abused don’t become abusers. From a personal POV, I can believe that because I know how it feels to endure it.

Thanks for your response.

[JNChell]

Hi, GaGrl. I agree with both of you. It makes sense and I’ve played my part in it in more than one relationship. It can feel very unfortunate and shame inducing at times, but the bottom line is that it is what it is. All of that stuff eventually led me here and this community eventually allowed me to see what kind of therapist I needed to find. I was pretty clueless at the onset of my true healing, I’m not anymore. I now have knowledge and awareness in my toolbox. Thanks for chiming in.

[JNChell]

I Am Redeemed. Your last question hit me like a ton of bricks and I’m glad that you asked it. The truth is, no, my opinion doesn’t, nor should it, change over the treatment. Thank you so much for steering me back away from possible minimization and accepting the way I was treated by her. Exploring a different psychological label doesn’t change what happened. That part remains the same and it always will. I also didn’t look at it enough to consider the possibility of her being comorbid. Maybe pwPTSD that harm and abuse others are afflicted in this way. I’ve only ever been a real danger to myself when I reflect and look back on things. I’m no longer that way, but I spent the majority of my life up to this point wandering aimlessly ignoring what my body was trying to tell me. Toxic relationships that woke my childhood trauma and placed new layers of trauma on top of what had been laying dormant.

Thank you so much for your wise words. 

[Harri]

Interesting discussion.   

Reading I was nodding along.  I like labels but I am not too stuck on them.  Not long ago my T told me she thought my mom was schizophrenic with paranoid features and it was like a whole world opened to me in terms of explanations and understanding.   Understanding how I was abused, how it explained seemingly weird emotions I had for my mom and in terms of depersonalizing the demonization she did about me. 

I was also nodding when we talk about the more violent and obvious behaviors.  Yelling, raging, throwing things are all easy to spot and in that sense are easy to get a hold of.  But what about the other behaviors that are seen in BPD and c-PTSD?  The denial and black and white thinking and fear of abandonment and pervasive personality traits that can cause us to be emotionally abusive, manipulative and damaging to others?  What about us having a hard time regulating our own emotions?  What does that teach our kids?

It is thoughts like what I wrote above that make me understand the similarities between the two conditions and realize that the label does not really matter.  It is the behaviors that matter.  There are plenty of people with BPD who have awareness and understanding of their behavior when they are centered and calm.   There are plenty of people with BPD who are fighting to get better.  Unfortunately here on this site, most of us are not dealing with those people.  Instead we are dealing with the people who are in denial, who have black and white thinking and fear of abandonment and have pervasive personality traits that drive our ability to be manipulative, and emotionally abusive.

I Am Redeemed, you are right.  A label does not really change anything.

[JNChell]

Hello, Harri. I’m glad that you brought up the similarities between BPD and C-PTSD. There are many. The divide is a thin line. I hope that the powers that be over the DSM don’t decide to group the two together. There are few, but VERY deciding factors on why the two conditions are very different. Self awareness after being shown, empathy, compassion and responsibility come to mind.

You survived a paranoid schizophrenic. That says so much about your character and personality. Not only did you survive that, and I mean emotional and psychological survival, you are here helping people like me. I know that there are days where you sell yourself short, but the proof is in the pudding.

Things have been moving forward for me fairly well. Confidence boosting things, but I’m also recognizing that I’m waiting and expecting something bad to happen. I’m beginning to wonder, as I’m digging deeper, if I’ve been guilty of self sabotage in the past. The thinking is similar.

Harri, those behaviors teach our kids to behave the same way. Even when the cycle is being broken, those behaviors will show their face. I’ve done plenty of explaining to my boy when I’ve become irritated. I don’t abuse him, but I’m guilty of being short with him. At times I need to steal away and cry. Then I come back to him, apologize and talk to him. I get overwhelmed at times and react. Nothing over the top. Nothing like that at all, but in ways that confuse him. Most of the time, at his age, he’s seeking a reaction and testing the waters. I get it. He’s also doing this because he needs to be taught and shown. This is how kiddos learn at this stage.

You’re right. Being groomed by these personality traits and eventually adopting some of them ourselves, we’re lucky to have traits that allow us to look inward, be humble and see reality for what it is. Thanks, Harri.

[Notwendy]

I think when we work on ourselves, it changes things for our kids. I became an appeaser and tolerated too much in my marriage. I was raised to be a doormat to my parents and walk on eggshells and brought this into marriage. I realized I was role modeling this behavior for my kids.

I try to not triangulate with the kids, as much as possible. They are older now and are aware that my mother has BPD. They have seen me struggle in my relationship with her. Sometimes they have been critical of that- but later they also began to understand why. Now that they are older, they are free to have their own boundaries with her. She contacts them directly- on their cell phones. She thinks she is being "sneaky" by going around me to get to them ,but they are old enough to decide to reply or not. I did have boundaries when they were younger, to protect them, but I trust they can manage this now.

I have also been open about attending co-dependency groups with the kids. I want them to know that it is OK to seek help if someone needs it- that this is an emotionally healthy thing to do. Growing up, I was taught to keep my mother's situation secret, not talk about it and pretend it wasn't an issue. I have tried to be as honest as reasonably possible. They also know I didn't like being a doormat wife and needed to change that. I don't want them to think normal behavior is being a doormat. My mother in law is co-dependent and I think that fit into my H's expectations of marriage.

There are no perfect parents- and surely I am not one either but I do try to make changes to the patterns when I can.

[Tsultan]

Notwendy, I have been thinking about how similar the symptoms of alcoholism are to BPD for awhile now. I’m glad you brought this up. It can get confusing. I think for me as I understand it at some point the symptoms cross over on the spectrum from a trait to a disorder. My family has been affected by alcoholism and BPD and sometimes it was hard to distinguish between the two but I’m going with the spectrum theory.

It seems with BPD the same symptoms one would suffer from alcoholism are much more intense. Particularly shame.

In the end what matters is the healing that can happen with awareness, new tools, and support. 

Tsultan

[JNChell]

NotWendy, change is one of the best tools that we have in our toolbox. Second to awareness/acceptance. I think you’ve done a wise thing by opening the door just enough for your kids to truly understand what has been going on. As we know around here, trying to explain it can backfire. Sounds like you found a balance. Also, I imagine that allowing your kids to figure things out on their own was a good lesson in letting go. Sounds like your efforts worked.

[Zabava]

JNChell,

My therapist has told me that my mother was and continues to be in a lot of pain from her childhood.  But she also tells me that her pain does not make her physical and emotional abuse of her children OK.  I have traced some of the intergenerational trauma back to my grandfathers WWII experiences (yes I'm that old)  That being said, I worry about how I may impact my kids.  The fact that you are so self aware and apologize when you get annoyed sounds like you are modelling really positive self regulation.

I too remember rage and violence from early childhood.  I feel empathy for my mother But... she had a choice each and every time she hit me or my sister or called us names, swore at us..., etc.)  So did your mother.