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Author Topic: Fresh separation and very treacherous waters  (Read 474 times)
Frankee
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« on: June 24, 2019, 11:59:45 AM »

I thought this would be the most appropriate board to post on.

I am in a bit of a predicament.  I left my bph two weeks ago.  I have done my best with keeping communication as minimal as possible.  I have discussed bills and finances with him.  I also did a test run last week and left him take S3 for two days.  He dropped him off at my work and even left me the truck.

I don't want him to know I am filing for divorce and custody/visitation, but he asked if I was.  I never replied.  I had a texting app to communicate about the kids and bills, but he turned it into begging and pleading for one more chance.  I blocked his number. 

He wanted to see S3 when he was off, but I don't think it is a good idea to see him because the couple times I have seen him, he begs and tells me how this has "opened his eyes" and he cries and uses his wounded animal voice begging for help. I am concerned that it might open the flood gates to other problems if I don't let him see S3, but I don't know what else to do until I get something filed.

I don't know if this wrong to keep S3 away until I get legal paperwork set up, but I am worried if my bph is going to ramp up the pressure the more he sees me or try to turn the exchanges into an attempt to try to get me to come back.  I am worried that his being patient and understanding is going to wear out soon and I don't know what will happen then.
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 01:22:38 PM »

Talk to a lawyer but it will take a while for legal paperwork.  If he's BPD (you've posted on this forum), he'll split pretty soon and that's when he'll become explosive..
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Frankee
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 01:44:51 PM »

I am staying in a shelter and I am doing my best not to break rules or get thrown out or in trouble.  He also doesn't know I am staying at a shelter.  If he thinks I might be, he hasn't led on he thinks I might be.

Is it wrong to keep him from seeing S3 because I'm worried about what he will say/do to me?
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 02:02:50 PM »

Is it a domestic violence shelter?  They may have advice on how to set up a way for him to have supervised visits with your son without you being present. 
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 02:23:40 PM »

In the events leading up to my divorce, I noticed my ex never faced consequences for blocking my parenting when there was no order stating otherwise.  Yes, the police virtually begged us but ended up saying "work it out in court".  I was between orders for about 3 months, totally blocked from my preschooler and all that happened was the same magistrate passively said "I'll fix that" and reinstated an order with virtually the same terms as the old one.

So it's probably unlikely that you will face an irate judge if your parenting decisions are cautious and at least somewhat justifiable during this time of potential turmoil.

Trust your gut.  Beware of trying to appear overly fair and overly nice (often that is what got us into this mess).  The old saying... "The one behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit."
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kells76
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2019, 02:27:07 PM »

Welcome to Family Law  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)  I followed some of your story over on Conflicted. Glad you are here with us too!

Excerpt
They may have advice on how to set up a way for him to have supervised visits with your son without you being present.

This is a good idea. You can just start with "getting info to think about". You can learn about what options are out there for your son spending safe time with his dad, without you trying to broker it.

In our city, there's a faith-based counseling group that coordinates supervised visitations. So, it wouldn't have to be through the government or an "official" center, either. You can do some google searches for "supervised visitation provider City State" and just learn about what's out there. I suspect there's a wide range of "environments" so maybe you can check out some photos online and see what looks warm & inviting.

I was thinking of recommending checking out a local community college to see if they have parent/child playgroups, but probably that would not be safe enough for your situation.
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Frankee
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 03:10:31 PM »

It is a DV shelter.  I have been there since the day I left him.
So it's probably unlikely that you will face an irate judge if your parenting decisions are cautious and at least somewhat justifiable during this time of potential turmoil.

Trust your gut.  Beware of trying to appear overly fair and overly nice (often that is what got us into this mess).  The old saying... "The one behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit."
I honestly didn't think of the court part.  I was just trying to be the bigger person and not let the split affect the kids.  I'm reality though, the oldest one is gone until after July 4th and the youngest one seems to be doing all right.  As long as he is with me or the daycare ladies, he is okay.

It seems the one that is really suffering is my ex bph.  As much harm as he has done over the relationship, I don't want to make it any harder.
Welcome to Family Law  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)  I followed some of your story over on Conflicted. Glad you are here with us too!

This is a good idea. You can just start with "getting info to think about". You can learn about what options are out there for your son spending safe time with his dad, without you trying to broker it.
Thank you! 

Should I talk to the DV advocates?  Tell them that he has been reaching out to try to see S3?  It's a tricky situation because I trust him to spend time alone with his dad, but I just don't want to interact with my ex bph during the exchange.  That and a small part of me worries he won't return him.  But I keep telling myself he will because he has nobody to watch him and can't pay for daycare.
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2019, 03:21:04 PM »

Excerpt
Should I talk to the DV advocates?  Tell them that he has been reaching out to try to see S3?  It's a tricky situation because I trust him to spend time alone with his dad, but I just don't want to interact with my ex bph during the exchange.

Anything in particular you're concerned about, with talking to the DV advocates about this? Is there a "what if it goes wrong" worry about bringing this up with them?
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2019, 03:56:00 PM »

It seems the one that is really suffering is my ex bph.  As much harm as he has done over the relationship, I don't want to make it any harder.
It is hard to see someone we care about in emotional pain.  It's not your job to keep him from dealing with the consequences of his choices and his behaviors, though.

From what you've said, his communications are concerned much more with your relationship than they are with your kids.   If you can find a safe way to allow him time with son without you present - I would recommend supervised time, if you are worried he won't return the little one - then you can do that once and see if he really wanted time with your son or if he's frustrated it didn't work as a path to you.

If he's just trying to manipulate to get to you, then I would not feel guilty at all.
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2019, 03:58:08 PM »

I would definitely talk to the advocates. Don't try to provide visitation for your h out of FOG without some structure in place, even if that's having a third party with you for pick up/drop off to decrease the likelihood of a big, crying scene where he capitalizes on the few moments in your presence to push his agenda of convincing you that hes changed.

Repeated exposure to that is going to cause you a lot of stress. Trust me, I learned that the hard way trying to "be the better person". My h started out subtly, if you can call it that, trying to hug all over me under the pretense of showing s3 that he could be "loving" towards me. Then he would try to use FOG on me, saying that s3 looked so happy with mommy and daddy together, and that it made s3's "world complete". What he was actually doing was violating my boundaries in a huge way (I was in no way comfortable with that kind of physical contact) and then telling me that I was denying our child something important to him by resisting.
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Frankee
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2019, 04:50:40 PM »

Anything in particular you're concerned about, with talking to the DV advocates about this? Is there a "what if it goes wrong" worry about bringing this up with them?
Mostly him trying to use the time to corner me into talking about "us" and not returning S3 if he decides to go off rails.

I briefly talked with one of them and they suggested meeting in front of the police station or something.  I told him that he was always good with the kids.  Maybe I should chat with them and just see if they would advise what to do in a what if situation for different scenarios.
It is hard to see someone we care about in emotional pain.

You can do that once and see if he really wanted time with your son or if he's frustrated it didn't work as a path to you.
I know he does genuinely want to spend time with S3, but the personal exchange is hard.  That what is hurting me right now.  Knowing he wants to see and really spend time with S3, but not wanting to have to see him.

He spent a couple days with him and returned him.  But dropping off S3 was hard because he wanted to talk about us and then when he dropped S3 off at work, it was weird because he hugged me, kissed my cheek, and said I love you... In front of my boss... Who knows my situation.
I would definitely talk to the advocates. Don't try to provide visitation for your h out of FOG without some structure in place, even if that's having a third party with you for pick up/drop off.

Repeated exposure to that is going to cause you a lot of stress. Trust me, I learned that the hard way trying to "be the better person". My h started out subtly, if you can call it that, trying to hug all over me.

Telling me that I was denying our child something important to him by resisting.
I feel I am experiencing FOG right now because I always thought he treated the boys better than me.

It is stressing me out something awful.  I feel stuck in this forsaken limbo of moving forward and trying to still maintain a neutral relationship for S3.  

He already said he didn't want his F*$& up to be why the kids grow up to be messed up with split parents.  Truth is, they will be messed up growing up under the false idea of what a normal healthy relationship is.  They would see our relationship and think that is how it is supposed to be and it's not.
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2019, 08:52:58 PM »

He already said he didn't want his F*$& up to be why the kids grow up to be messed up with split parents.  Truth is, they will be messed up growing up under the false idea of what a normal healthy relationship is.  They would see our relationship and think that is how it is supposed to be and it's not.

That is a very perceptive observation.  Most of us stayed together too long because we felt we had to keep trying over and over while things kept getting worse and worse.  But the other person wasn't improving and the children were seeing one parent misbehaving and out of control while the other parent was appeasing and walking on eggshells.  Even if the other parent doesn't behave well, we can and that good example is what makes the difference.  We don't want the children to grow up and choose their relationships modeled on bad examples:

Will my child choose to be an out-of-control spouse?  Or marry one?
Will my child choose to be an appeasing spouse?  Or marry one?
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Frankee
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2019, 12:01:45 PM »

I keep telling myself that I did the right thing.  That the initial change for the kids will be hard, but in the long run, it will be the best thing.

My bph messaged and asked yesterday what happened that I wasn't going to keep the kids from him (he asked to see S3).  I thought really hard about my reply.  Simply said I wasn't going to keep them away.  I just didn't know how to drop off S3 without it turning into a discussion about fixing us.  He apologized and said sorry for blowing up my phone, he wants to give me space, he loves me.. blah blah.  The number blocked really worked because I didn't receive any text messages or missed calls from him.

I was talking with the ladies at the shelter about when S8 comes back and the weight of the reality to the situation got to me a bit.  I realized it is going to be hard.  S8 left with a home living with Mom and Dad, close to his friend, the park, the dogs.  Now he will be coming back to somewhere strange, with a bunch of strangers, no dogs, no park nearby, not able to walk to his friend's house.

I also worry that S8 will want to see his dad before I leave the shelter.  I am worried that if I allow S8 and S3 to see him, S8 may give away the shelter location and then I will have to leave.  It was not too bad, but I foresee difficulty when S8 comes back.
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2019, 04:46:52 PM »


It's good to think ahead.  It's also good to have structure.

I simply can't imagine it being wise to start doing visitation without an agreement (structure) in place.  Even if it goes well the first couple times, the downside is simply not worth the "upside".

What is the timeline for filing something or getting an agreement in place?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2019, 12:38:19 PM »

I told him that he was always good with the kids.

Someone who is good with kids doesn't abuse mom. 

I left abruptly, too, and my L told me to put our then S9 on the phone so that H would at least know he was safe and connected.

You may complicate your custody case if you left with S3 and then allow visits. My L told me that if it appeared I didn't understand the severity of the domestic situation, the judge would look at our case as two troubled parents instead of one stable one and the other troubled.

If you are moving things legally, then emotions and good will are less important. You can care about how your bpdh feels as long as you are doing what a lawyer recommends for the best interests of the child.

Unfortunately for many of us, once we divorce with kids involved, the third party in the new relationship are the courts, among others (therapists, etc.)

It will make things harder to have legal machinery in place, and it will also make the path more clear.
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Frankee
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2019, 07:46:45 PM »

I am meeting with legal on Tuesday.  And my counselor.  I was supposed to do it Monday, but my work scheduled me.  I feel lost today.  I feel tired.  My job cut my hours down again.  I don't know how I feel about keeping S3 away.  S8 returns after fourth of July and the reality of what he will coming home to is weighing down on me. 

I am concerned being in the shelter is going to be hard for him.  I have to talk to my case worker tomorrow and see if there is even room here at the shelter for him.  We had several new ladies show up at the shelter and one said that we are at full capacity.  Until I talk to my caseworker, I feel anxiety about what will happen if they say they don't have room.

I keep hanging on, hoping that everything will be okay.  Some days I am so sure this is the right thing, then days like today, I doubt, so much so that it takes away all my energy.  I hope legal has some direction for me.
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2019, 03:40:52 PM »

My story... when we first separated, my ex lived with our son in a DV shelter for a while.  Our case was not typical.  I had a DV protective order granting me temporary possession (safe place) in our marital home.  She, on the other hand, went to family court and got defaulted to typical mother with custody and parenting.  So I had the home but alternate weekends with the preschooler. It wasn't long before she filed for child support.  I didn't begrudge her that since it helped her have a place to live.

That may be your way to help find a place to live, getting child support.  I recall that when court did get around to ordering child support, it made it retroactive to when the divorce was filed.  So that's another factor to influence how soon you file for divorce, that filing is a landmark event that impacts how other matters are handled.

I don't know whether you can get spousal support ordered.  Child support is universally granted, spousal support may be depending upon a variety of factors.  That would be a good question to ask when you're getting a few legal consultations.
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2019, 04:08:20 PM »

Hi Frankee,

How have things been going since you last posted?  Did you meet with Legal?  How did it go?  Has your S8 return?  How is he handling things? 

Panda39
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2019, 11:59:14 AM »

Frankee, it's been a while since you've been posting. How are things going?
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