The Challenges in Having Healthy Boundaries

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am starting this thread on having boundaries in interacting with people as this is a particular challenge of mine. I would like to hear about others' challenges in having healthy boundaries and also like some constructive feedback on my challenges.
For those unfamiliar with my story, I grew up in a family where validation did not exist. I was an unplanned unwanted pregnancy, left in the crib to fend for myself most of the time as a baby with my cries for comfort mainly unattended, and am one of a long line of chosen scapegoats, a practice which exists on both sides of the family. One of my biggest challenges is having healthy boundaries with people who have poor boundaries themselves. My poor boundaries occur mainly with men, though it happens with women, and occur mainly with people who have bad boundaries themselves. When I find myself interacting with this kind of person, we both share endless personal information when we barely know each other, and I find myself terribly hurt when I do not get the kind of validation I am seeking. On the other hand, I do have friendships and acquaintances in which we seem to bring out the best in each other, and the sharing is appropriate and over time brings us closer together. Above all, I just wish I would stop seeking validation from men that can only hurt me. I do not get involved in romantic or sexual relationships with these men, yet in the long run, I am really hurt when they suddenly turn on me. I feel that my only recourse right now is to avoid interacting with these type of people as soon as one of us starts engaging in endless inappropriate disclosures and to keep seeking out better people. I am hoping at some point, I will become immediately comfortable in setting appropriate boundaries with everyone most of the time.

[zachira]

I am starting this thread on having boundaries in interacting with people as this is a particular challenge of mine. I would like to hear about others' challenges in having healthy boundaries and also like some constructive feedback on my challenges.
For those unfamiliar with my story, I grew up in a family where validation did not exist. I was an unplanned unwanted pregnancy, left in the crib to fend for myself most of the time as a baby with my cries for comfort mainly unattended, and am one of a long line of chosen scapegoats, a practice which exists on both sides of the family. One of my biggest challenges is having healthy boundaries with people who have poor boundaries themselves. My poor boundaries occur mainly with men, though it happens with women, and occur mainly with people who have bad boundaries themselves. When I find myself interacting with this kind of person, we both share endless personal information when we barely know each other, and I find myself terribly hurt when I do not get the kind of validation I am seeking. On the other hand, I do have friendships and acquaintances in which we seem to bring out the best in each other, and the sharing is appropriate and over time brings us closer together. Above all, I just wish I would stop seeking validation from men that can only hurt me. I do not get involved in romantic or sexual relationships with these men, yet in the long run, I am really hurt when they suddenly turn on me. I feel that my only recourse right now is to avoid interacting with these type of people as soon as one of us starts engaging in endless inappropriate disclosures and to keep seeking out better people. I am hoping at some point, I will become immediately comfortable in setting appropriate boundaries with everyone most of the time.

[MeandThee29]

Sadly, I evolved into someone with few boundaries in an attempt to save my marriage. That's what I did as a child to save myself from a disordered parent, so that's what I went back to. It's crazy because like you, I have no problem sticking up for myself in healthy work and other family relationships.

Needless to say, it didn't work and nearly destroyed me.

At one point a counsellor had me make a bullet point list from my experience of what was an unhealthy boundary and what a healthy boundary in that situation should have been. That list was really painful for me, but it helped. The same counsellor had me write out conditions for reconciliation, and that helped.

I also found a group of friends who are very healthy with their boundaries. That has rubbed off on me. One of them talked to me privately not long ago about a boundary that I should have been setting. I ignored it at the time. Imagine how I felt when my lawyer said the same thing. OK, I get the message. This group is very good about not oversharing and even saying things like "do we really need to know that?" and "you've had this problem before, what are you doing to deal with it?"

Other friends? Not the same. Still care though, so I accept that. Not everyone is the type of friend that really brings out the best in us. I'm thankful that I have some of those.

[Cromwell]

My thoughts on boundaries is to weigh up this disclosure against the importance of establishing emotional intimacy. The issue here for me with bpdx was that the stuff she disclosed was too much, too fast and looking back it was inappropiate having only 'known' me for less than a month. Long term friendships/relationships where rapport and trust has been built up steadily by reciprocating stuff gradually, great.

Worth bearing in mind that people with deep rooted issues that have not been dealt with constructively - ie, going to see a therapist, will in the idealisation stage see you as the "saviour", divulge all in a short space of time because it is a form of soothing, then possibly regret doing so later. I equated it at the time as a form of "cry for help" which I did not shun her for, a poor choice in hindsight, taking on an amateur pseudo therapist role was not what I wanted but a role that I ended up in, unravelling emotional baggage she was carrying and then being lambasted for not being competent to solve it all like I possessed some magic wand.

By reciprocating, I also gave a lot of future ammunition to be used against me as emotional warfare. Then of course is the danger of having being fed false, or half-truth stories, or confabulated events that are partly designed to induce sympathy. ie, the multitude of exs who all were bad in some form, but not possible to find out beyond believing her word for it. Then in the same vein, I would reciprocate genuine emotions from my side.

Looking back there were things she said that I just did not have the heart to say, in the midst of that emotional moment "something doesnt quite ring true to the story". Who wants to be in a r/s where you start to feel more like a police detective than a loving partner? I did not, it doesnt make for the "high" of the relationship, ie following the pace set and tempo and getting sucked into the emotionally giddy whirlpool of just sharing your whole life with someone you just barely met.

From where I am today I dont see much of a challenge here though, I would not write off a relationship because of it but I would put the brakes on and say "I think this is something that a therapist could really help you work through better than I could" just as much as I am not mechanically inclined and would suggest getting a mechanic to replace a faulty gearbox and would not try and take on the task myself regardless of however much I might like to. A shoulder to literally cry on - no problem, an emotional swill bucket or even worse, scape goat as you say Zachira - the initial boundary push just opens up the door for the next one, an almost domino cascade effect, before you know it your bank accounts are shared too, became so close as my ex said one day "mi casa es su casa" when I asked what it meant she said "whats mine is yours".

Ok it did raise an eyebrow, it should have been a red flag especially as I was thinking "but you dont have anything?" but it got converted into a more romanticised "oh but if you did you would". It is the sort of thing I would not expect a wife to even say, because of the fact that it goes without saying, lest of all someone I have known for less than a month. I was emotionally vulnerable, I was depressed, Zachira, sure "inappropiate phrase detected" flashed up but it missed the critical attachment of -"take evasive action now". As much as if you reverse the sides, I would expect someone -emotionally stable and mature - to say the same to me and not encourage it.     

[OutOfEgypt]

What is it about the validation these kinds of men could potentially give you that makes it so much more sought after than others?  What makes their validation so much more valuable and appealing?  What does it give you?

As I'm sure you know, boundaries are helpful but until things like that are answered and resolved we'll always find ourselves tempted to relax those boundaries when it comes down to it.  The heart wants what it wants -its just that what it wants is often killing us.    So maybe its not such a bad idea to avoid those types of men if it proves to be a destructive temptation for you.

[zachira]

Thank you to all of you who have replied. I apologize for not saying more. I found out my mother with BPD is dying this morning and am not all here. I hope to reply more fully at a later date. I did want to reply to OutOfEgypt's post because it is very relevant to my initial post plus what I am going through now having to deal with my two siblings who have BPD while mom is dying and the aftermath.

Topic Summary
Posted on: June 28, 2019, 01:14:34 PM Posted by: OutOfEgypt
What is it about the validation these kinds of men could potentially give you that makes it so much more sought after than others?  What makes their validation so much more valuable and appealing?  What does it give you?

As I'm sure you know, boundaries are helpful but until things like that are answered and resolved we'll always find ourselves tempted to relax those boundaries when it comes down to it.  The heart wants what it wants -its just that what it wants is often killing us. So maybe its not such a bad idea to avoid those types of men if it proves to be a destructive temptation for you.

OutOfEgypt
I believe my attraction to these types of men is traumatic reenactment. I think subconsciously I am trying to get validation from these men because they are so similar to my family members. When we become adults, our attachment figures become who we are romantically and sexually attracted to which in my case is men. I think it is harder for me to feel attracted to healthy men because my childhood attachment figures are not like them. I am doing well, in that I no longer date these type of men. My challenge is not to feel attracted to them, and to completely lose interest in being validated by them. I am a work in progress. I no longer have friendships with women that are like my mother with BPD. I have some wonderful healthy happy female friends who give me constructive kind feedback when needed, who bring out the best in me as I do hopefully in them.There are several men who are in committed relationships, mostly long term marriages, whom I regularly interact with. They are very kind in letting me know when I am not respecting their boundaries and are teaching me how to be a better woman. I agree with you that as soon as I see that a man is not good news, I need to stay away from him. I am way too vulnerable to feeling hurt by his unkindness which I logically know is not about me. Being mistreated by these men, brings up all my feelings about being rejected by my family and how I unlovable I feel. I want to be kind to others because so many people have been kind to me when I was frankly acting a lot like my family members with BPD and NPD. I want to help, yet I need to stick to helping children and women, and stay away from being a caretaker to men that I want to save.