A "Good" conversation? Recommendations appreciated

[Depression = 72% of members]

So, last night, I had my first REAL experience (successful, I think), in setting boundaries/expectations. My BPDh heard me tell my mom, "He's always mad at me..." Later on, I walked into his music room and asked, "Are you coming downstairs with us?" and that question ended up in a LONG conversation wherein he told me that we were over and he was leaving me. I remained COMPLETELY calm, and asked him why. He said that I cause him anxiety and he has never fit in with us (we've been together for 14 years/married for 12, my girls were 2 and 4 when we got together). I calmly asked, "Have you spoken with the doctor? The one that I sent you the information on last week?"
"No."
I calmly told him that I wasn't going to fight his decision, that if he was deciding that's what he needed to do, then it was up to him. I told him that I was not going to beg. I told him that I can no longer help him--and (maybe I shouldn't have done this, but it felt right) I apologized for enabling his behavior all these years, and for being codependent. I encouraged him to get help, again reinforced that I cannot help him--that HE has to help himself first. I agreed with him that he cannot continue living like this. I practiced what I learned where I say, "I hear what you're saying," then would repeat what he said. I felt myself getting a bit offtrack when he would talk about his anxiety and I said, "You are creating big problems out of nothing...YOU are creating this massive anxiety." I immediately stopped, and went back to the "I hear what you are saying..." script. I made it VERY clear that he has got to take that step and get help. I offered to go with him, and he declined. I kissed him, and I left the room.
He ended up coming downstairs about 15 minutes later. Was mopey for a while, then warmed up and we had a decent evening.

In my previous life, I would have begged. I would have tried to fix it all by super-kind words, and affection, and coddling. I would have sugar coated everything and woken up this morning and pretended to be Mary Poppins. This time, I stayed strong for me. And ultimately, for us. If he is not willing to get help, then I will not stop him from leaving this marriage. I said, "YOU NEED TO GET HELP. I CANNOT DO IT FOR YOU" at least 5 times.

He flat out said that he is never mad at us. I replied with, "I know you don't believe you are--I understand that's what you're saying. For US, when we feel that you're angry with us, it looks like this: You stop talking to us. If you DO talk to us, you're short. You mumble under your breath, and you roll your eyes at us. To US, that is how we identify and believe you are angry or annoyed with us." He didn't get mad at that (although i'm not sure that was the best way to tell him that).

Tips on how to move forward with this? I am adamant in requiring that he get help. HE can't continue living like this, but either can me and the kids. Thank you!

[ChTown]

So, last night, I had my first REAL experience (successful, I think), in setting boundaries/expectations. My BPDh heard me tell my mom, "He's always mad at me..." Later on, I walked into his music room and asked, "Are you coming downstairs with us?" and that question ended up in a LONG conversation wherein he told me that we were over and he was leaving me. I remained COMPLETELY calm, and asked him why. He said that I cause him anxiety and he has never fit in with us (we've been together for 14 years/married for 12, my girls were 2 and 4 when we got together). I calmly asked, "Have you spoken with the doctor? The one that I sent you the information on last week?"
"No."
I calmly told him that I wasn't going to fight his decision, that if he was deciding that's what he needed to do, then it was up to him. I told him that I was not going to beg. I told him that I can no longer help him--and (maybe I shouldn't have done this, but it felt right) I apologized for enabling his behavior all these years, and for being codependent. I encouraged him to get help, again reinforced that I cannot help him--that HE has to help himself first. I agreed with him that he cannot continue living like this. I practiced what I learned where I say, "I hear what you're saying," then would repeat what he said. I felt myself getting a bit offtrack when he would talk about his anxiety and I said, "You are creating big problems out of nothing...YOU are creating this massive anxiety." I immediately stopped, and went back to the "I hear what you are saying..." script. I made it VERY clear that he has got to take that step and get help. I offered to go with him, and he declined. I kissed him, and I left the room.
He ended up coming downstairs about 15 minutes later. Was mopey for a while, then warmed up and we had a decent evening.

In my previous life, I would have begged. I would have tried to fix it all by super-kind words, and affection, and coddling. I would have sugar coated everything and woken up this morning and pretended to be Mary Poppins. This time, I stayed strong for me. And ultimately, for us. If he is not willing to get help, then I will not stop him from leaving this marriage. I said, "YOU NEED TO GET HELP. I CANNOT DO IT FOR YOU" at least 5 times.

He flat out said that he is never mad at us. I replied with, "I know you don't believe you are--I understand that's what you're saying. For US, when we feel that you're angry with us, it looks like this: You stop talking to us. If you DO talk to us, you're short. You mumble under your breath, and you roll your eyes at us. To US, that is how we identify and believe you are angry or annoyed with us." He didn't get mad at that (although i'm not sure that was the best way to tell him that).

Tips on how to move forward with this? I am adamant in requiring that he get help. HE can't continue living like this, but either can me and the kids. Thank you!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Ozzie101]

That's great that you were able to stay calm! Not easy when we're provoked like that. You set your boundaries, offered empathy and truth statements and let him work through his own feelings, which it sounds like he was able to do.

As for how to move forward, that's a very personal decision and I'm afraid I can't offer much help there since my H sought help for himself. Have you read our content here on getting a loved one to accept therapy? https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

It's got some useful information in it. And there are many other people here who have struggled with what you're dealing with. I hope they'll chime in -- and that you'll look into some other threads. You may be able to offer advice to someone else in turn.

[ChTown]

Thanks, Ozzie--checking that link you posted!

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi ChTown-

I’d like to welcome you to our community. 

I’m combining some information you shared from your first post because it may be relevant - I hope you don’t mind.

I noticed in your first post you spoke of your ss19 who recently moved in with you, your 2 bio daughters and your BPDh and the painful news that your two daughters requested that they go stay with your parents for awhile.  Is that still your girls’ wish?

When you and your BPDh laid out the conditions of ss19 moving in with you over the summer, were any of those conditions subsequently met?  Has your H “split” his son yet or is the idealization still pretty much going on?  I would imagine since BPDh has not lived with his son for over 14 years, this was a very exciting idea to BPDh - a “chance” to perhaps make up for lost opportunities and time?  BPDh likely wanted you and your girls to see this “dream” exactly as he saw or sees it.  What do you think?

I’m asking all of this because there are potentially moving parts, hearts and dynamics of 5 people in your household right now- a pretty complex picture.  But manageable if there’s a loving foundation underneath and a real desire for improvement (from both your AND dear BPDh’s viewpoints) .

Does your H know you’ve sought therapy over the last year?  No need to keep any secrets from him about that.  In working on you, you’re trying to help “us”.  If it’s working, that’s how it works.

Does your H frequently move to the “I’m done, I want a divorce” threat?  Is this a new phase for him, and if so, can you see a connection to some recent trigger or event?

Finally, it’s okay, and part of clearing out codependency behavior to say FIRST that you and the kids cannot or will no longer live like this; rather than saying “HE can’t continue living like this”.  This is in no way a “run” message.

When you say you are “Adament” that your H gets help, what does that really mean to you?  Is that a thick line in the sand?  Are you prepared to issue an ultimatum to him?

Have you had any time to look through the communication tools here?  Once you begin to utilize some of these you’ll likely find great benefit with not only your H, but all the kids as well.  Remember, they’ve been caught up in the BPD cycle, too.

Please keep posting and give us your thoughts.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[ChTown]

Gems,
I need to figure out how to quote you, but until then...

I've spoken with the girls. They're staying with us for now. <3

When you and your BPDh laid out the conditions of ss19 moving in with you over the summer, were any of those conditions subsequently met?  Has your H “split” his son yet or is the idealization still pretty much going on?  I would imagine since BPDh has not lived with his son for over 14 years, this was a very exciting idea to BPDh - a “chance” to perhaps make up for lost opportunities and time?  BPDh likely wanted you and your girls to see this “dream” exactly as he saw or sees it.  What do you think?

SS19 DID get a job. He has decided he won't be going back to school. BPDh and I sat down and had another talk with him on Saturday. H is split over son--total idealization. Feels like he gets the opportunity to "re-raise" him, so to speak, but he admitted to me last night that he's disappointed in his son's laziness and lack of future planning. I have no idea what to think about this anymore.

I love my SS19 very much, and he is welcome here. I've spoken to my girls about extending grace and how I would expect their stepmom to extend the very same kind of grace to each of them, if they were ever in a similar situation. I'm not discounting their feelings, but am pushing them to try to understand more (if that makes sense).

Does your H know you’ve sought therapy over the last year?  No need to keep any secrets from him about that.  In working on you, you’re trying to help “us”.  If it’s working, that’s how it works.

He does now!

The 'divorce' threat--he's only used it a few other times. Usually when he splits. This was the first time it wasn't accompanied with complete vitriol, so we were actually able to have a discussion.

I spent my lunch break watching a video on here, and looking through other comms tools.  

[once removed]

I spent my lunch break watching a video on here, and looking through other comms tools

hows it going with them?