BDP wife conflicts with daughter

[Pablitus]

Married to a woman who is bdp (according to a marriage consulor and everything that i have read and observed). After years of being a dumping ground for this persons toxicity i am concerned about her behavior with my daughter, i constantly see her being overly harsh for very minor things along with having a tendancy for turning everything into a battle.

An example is food, if one of my daughters says she is hungry i will take that at face value and feed the child.

If my daughter says she is hungry to my wife it becomes a battle because earlier my wife wanted the child to eat a certain thing at a certain time and in a certain quantity, if the child did not fully comply then this is the reason fir her being hungry now and the child "wins" and "gets her way" if fed.

My wife can be very controlling and insensitive as regards our children and am concerned about cycle repeating itself.

Heard BPD described as chronic irrationality...very difficult to deal with directly.

Any advice on protecting minor children from a BPD mother?

[mart555]

She'll be on the hunt for a new caretaker.  Not sure how old your daughter is but she may be the next candidate in line...   https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Caretaking-Borderline-Narcissist-Drama/dp/1442238321

[Notwendy]

Yup- that's me. Adult daughter who was enlisted as BPDmom's emotional caretaker since about age 12 when I became useful to her.

There were things my father did that helped protect us but since they stayed together, BPD mother was always there. It's probably impossible to protect them from their mother but you can do things that lessen the impact.

One of the best things he did was get us away from her for some of the time. We spent time staying with his family on school breaks as she didn't like it when we were home all day. School was a happy place. We were good students and liked school as it gave us our own space as well.

One consequence of living with this level of dysfunction is being on "high alert" or walking on eggshells. When we were away from BPD mom, we didn't have to do this. It gave us some peaceful times.

Take on most of the parenting if you can. It depends on the mother, but my mother didn't have much interest in parenting us, so Dad took us out of the house on weekends. We had all kinds of adventures with Dad- going to the zoo, the park, museums. Was it fair that he also was the only wage earner and had to do this too? No, if you looked at the balance of things,  but it was the best thing for us. The reward? Kids bond with their caregivers. I bonded with my father, but not my mother.

Validate your kids' feelings and perceptions. I think this is crucial. BPD mother invalidated our perceptions and feelings.  Also as we got older, we knew something wasn't right with her but if we asked, we were punished. She was not to be held accountable for her behavior. We were told she was "normal". She blamed me for the conflict between us and her issues with my father. I actually believed her and believed that things were better at home after I left for college.  ( she still had BPD after I left for college). Be truthful but don't triangulate too much. She will figure out that her mom isn't like her friends' mothers and ask.

Get counseling for her.  She needs a reality check and a neutral person to talk to and validate her feelings. This keeps you from triangulating. As a teen, I didn't love my mother, and society expects people to love their mothers. I didn't feel like I was like other kids. It's distressing to dislike your mother, but I had reasons to. I didn't know she was mentally ill and my parents pretended nothing was going on. I assumed she did the things she did because she hated me. It would have helped to have someone explain the situation to me as mental illness, not because of anything I did or said. Knowing my mother has BPD and learning the tools to deal with her has helped me to understand her behaviors and to also have boundaries.

Reinforce your D's boundaries. Having your boundaries violated by a parent teaches you that it is OK to let someone who "loves" you violate your boundaries. This isn't OK. Your D needs healthy boundaries to navigate relationships with people. She will also learn from you, so if you have weak boundaries, work on that.

Hope this helps you and other parents out there.

[Panda39]

Hi Pablitus,

Welcome to the  bpdfamily  

I've pulled a link to information on co-parenting with a BPD parent (I love sharing the site's information  ) that has tons of information and that I hope you find helpful.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.0

You have an important role in the lives of your children, Notwendy gave you some excellent advice in terms of what you can do and how you can assist/support your kids.

I'm glad you've decided to join us and started a conversation, there are many here that are or have been in your situation.  There are tools, information, and support to be had here.

Does your wife have an eating disorder?  I find the control around your daughter's food that you mention concerning.  Do you think it is about the food or is it more about control?  Do you feel there is anything out of the ordinary in how/when your daughter wants to eat? How old is your daughter?  Sometimes as children mature, become more independent (as they should), and pull away from depending on the parent it can be hard for a BPD parent to handle.  Fear of abandonment is at the heart of BPD so this natural independence and pulling away can feel like abandonment.  If is the case, that control can be her way of holding on to your daughter, but you and I know that the goal of parenting isn't keeping children dependent but assisting them in becoming independent.  

I look forward to hearing more of your story, and hope you will look around the site and participate in the discussions of other members.  When I first arrived here I was amazed at how similar our stories can be, you are not alone.

Again welcome,
Panda39

[mart555]

Yup- that's me. Adult daughter who was enlisted as BPDmom's emotional caretaker since about age 12 when I became useful to her.
...

Hope this helps you and other parents out there.

Thank you very much for this.  It was quite valuable and confirmed that I'm on the right track with my kids. 

Did your mom consider herself a good mom? 

[Pablitus]

Appreciate greatly the replies and useful comments/advice.

My oldest daughter is 8 years old; younger one is 6.

The older one is a little defiant while the younger one is somewhat docile in nature (the baby of the family).

My wife doesn't have an eating disorder so believe the battles about food (and many other things) is mainly about control. My wife can be very overbearing and controlling in an often overly harsh tone (like her own mother); i have heard her tone/commands produces wailing from the kids especially the younger one who is quite sensitive (one example being as to how the child should position her own pillow under her head in bed).

Believe my wife's insecurity pushes her to seek validation from the kids in being a "good" mother setting up these battles which i think is starting to have an affect on my older daughter.

Recently we had friends of the girls over and they were planning on going for a swim in the pool; the older daughter said she did not want to go so stayed home w/me which surprised me as she is really fond of these friends.

I asked why she did not want to go and she said "i hate mama"; had a long talk w/her asking why and tried to explain that we must try and get along w/each other and how it was especially important for her to have a good relationship w/her mother (sometimes i try to play the peacemaker, sometimes the protector which).

Had another talk w/her at bedtime one night when she seemed to be very unhappy; asked her what was wrong and she said "it is like i have everything all arranged perfect and then mama comes and moves everything around"; i asked what she was referring to (thinking her toys/dolls; something physical)  and she implied it was more of a feeling (speaking figuratively).

My wife will often tell me not to wear a certain item of clothing for further reference as to her character / mentality.

Sincerely believe that she is a classic example of someone not knowing or respecting boundaries of others and needing validation from those closest to her.

She is also a "Jekyll / Hyde " type where you will see the ugly side, leave the room for 10 minutes and come back and find the nice side.

I have gone through a lot w/this person (12 years married) and recall that any major life event (getting married, having children, moving cross country) provoked major periods of irrational/destructive behavior/fighting and after having read up much on it see many examples of her behavior in the various articles and posts read.

With that said I recall having gone through a really rough period of arguing/fighting just after being married (like childbirth her insecurity of being a wife coming out) and i recall feeling this incredible despair and thinking to myself "i am never going to win w/this person, i am only some sort of stepping stone" ; i knew the truth ever so long ago although not being able to put all the pieces together.

One quote that really struck me in an article (and sums up my situation) was  " the thing the non bpd is searching for, a true loving relationship, was never even on the table to begin with"

In closing w/this post; any advice on precautionary measures in case of divorce? My desire is that her condition be known and taken into consideration in any divorce proceedings.

Live in CA; heard that a psychological evaluation can be requested; want to protect my daughters.

I may try speaking w/someone close to her about her condition as a last ditch effort; trying to deal with her directly (as the "bad" guy in her life all these years) is a lost cause.

[worriedStepmom]

My SD12 said something to similar to your daughter the other day.  She said "mom always unstraightens everything."  If she has the world figured out ("straightened out"), mom comes along and messes it up.

Are you able to get your girls in therapy?  Perhaps by selling it to your wife as a way to help the girls be more compliant, but in actuality to give them a safe space to talk about their feelings?

If divorce is on your radar, start documenting now.  Every day, write down who does what with the kids.  Who takes them to school and picks them up?  Who makes dinner?  Who helps them dress?  Who plays games with them or sits and chats with them?  Who made them cry?  This kind of documentation can be really useful to prove how involved a father you are.  It also helps to see if you can document patterns.  Is your wife worse on weekends or in the summer, when the kids are home more?  Is she better in X situation?  That will help as you try to craft a potential custody schedule.

Generally, in a custody situation the courts don't care so much about what a person has been diagnosed with.  They care how that diagnosis affects the children.  In my state, at least, a forensic custody evaluation (as they call it) is aimed at helping the psychologist understand how the person would parent.  Here, it costs about $12k.  As my H gears up for another custody modification, we're working to document the bad behaviors and not try to get her diagnosed.

[worriedStepmom]

I asked why she did not want to go and she said "i hate mama"; had a long talk w/her asking why and tried to explain that we must try and get along w/each other and how it was especially important for her to have a good relationship w/her mother (sometimes i try to play the peacemaker, sometimes the protector which).

This conversation could have had more validation.  It's good to ask why she feels that way.  It's also good to ask "How does it make you feel when you say you hate mama?"  (SD12 feels VERY guilty about having these feelings.)   "What's going on when you feel like you hate mama?"  (Sometimes, it's not "hate".  It's anger or sadness or frustration or another emotion that the kids don't know how to identify. 

Exploring those feelings is good.  Minimizing them "it is especially important to have a good relationship with mom" is not good.  If mom isn't going to do her part to try to have a good relationship, then it shouldn't all be on the kid.  She has to be respectful to an adult, but she doesn't have to want or try to create a loving relationship.  She's 8.

[Pablitus]

I understand about the mother needing to do her part and not putting it all on the child, was trying to stress and explain to my daughter to try and do her part.

Had a long frank and sincere talk with my daughter regarding the situation, being as tactful as i could, stressing that it is not her fault if her mother feels or acts a certain way.

Also stressing to her that her feelings, desires including hunger belong to her and her only.

It is a battle, am trying to focus on my own sanity (not engaging with bpd behavior of wife) and doing what i can to balance out/counteract wifes bpd behavior with kids.

As someone posted, my wife is a person with poor boundaries, she seems to overly take the problems of others to heart which can be annoying at times, an example is feeling obliged to give time to an unsolicted sales call.

I have also heard her try to tell the kids to eat something because it will make their grandmother happy, i intergected telling them you eat something because you want to eat something.
Good advice on possible therapy for kids.

Thank you to all.

[livednlearned]

I highly recommend Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When a Parent has BPD by Bill Eddy.

It's sort of written for spouses dealing with split custody but the lessons apply to any family situation when on parent has BPD.

Another great book for learning validation is Power of Validation (for parents). And also I Can't Make Things All Better by the Lundstroms.

Reaching out here for support is probably one of the most important things you can do. This is not a simple mental illness and the devastation and lasting effects on developing hearts and minds can be long lasting and hard to undo. One of my stepdaughters developed BPD (genetically predisposed and a BPD mother) and the trauma she lives with every day is heart breaking, not to mention the cycle continuing for yet another generation.

You can raise resilient kids. The communication and relationship skills are not intuitive and must be learned, and practiced.

We work hard here to support and walk with each other, learning and getting better and making mistakes as we go.

 

LnL