So unsure of everything Part 2

[Depression = 72% of members]

This thread was split from a previous discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337715.0

Reading back through the posts I don't know if i mentioned that my wife now sees an individual therapist.

She now has a very reliable person with whom she can triangulate.  

When we have discussions now, it's her and her therapist speaking to me.  Every point or emotion that she states, she now is sure to quote her therapist as having validated it as accurate.  Finally getting her to seek individual therapy backfired big time.

Trying to point this out doesn't work because she just fires back with, "you've been trying to get me to go to therapy for a long time, now you don't like what they are telling me."  and "That's what my therapist warned me you would say."

[4peece]

This thread was split from a previous discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337715.0

Reading back through the posts I don't know if i mentioned that my wife now sees an individual therapist.

She now has a very reliable person with whom she can triangulate.  

When we have discussions now, it's her and her therapist speaking to me.  Every point or emotion that she states, she now is sure to quote her therapist as having validated it as accurate.  Finally getting her to seek individual therapy backfired big time.

Trying to point this out doesn't work because she just fires back with, "you've been trying to get me to go to therapy for a long time, now you don't like what they are telling me."  and "That's what my therapist warned me you would say."

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Cat Familiar]

You are living in a dysfunctional relationship that is very similar to the one your mother and stepfather shared. You didn’t realize that you were heading down a path so similar to what you didn’t want to follow, but at this point, there are a lot of factors that keep you there. But you’re looking toward the future and wondering what if’s?

Have you considered that your wife may not be accurately reporting what her therapist has said? Or that, based upon her account, the therapist might not be getting the complete story?

[4peece]

Yes, I have thought that the information from her therapist is not accurate for all those reasons, but what I think doesn't seem to matter.  The only version of reality I am allowed to live in is the one that she declares.  I realize even in writing that it doesn't make sense that I would submit to living in her version of reality, but I can't figure out how to escape.  What's wrong with me that I don't trust my own version of reality? 

She is only willing to communicate in her version of reality.  Any attempt by me to assert a different version is met with rapid fire FOG, so quick and overwhelming it just turns me into a comatose zombie.  I find myself at the end of many "discussions" just staring blankly at the wall wondering where my life went.

I hear what you are saying, the techniques of communication I have read about seem to get eaten up by her and she just keeps coming.  She seems to have a never ending arsenal of gut wrenching insults to throw at me that I never expected.  It's like trying to hold your ground with a machine gun firing at your chest, you feel that if you don't take cover you are going to die.

By the time I can come up with a response to whatever she said last I'm already reeling from 10 more bullets.  I don't have the rapid fire ability to do verbal combat with her, and the silent treatments and punishments for walking away are almost worse.  The most painless thing to do is to just take my mind somewhere else until she is done.  But I hate myself for being so weak.

[Cat Familiar]

This thread was split from Part 1 of this topic: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337715.0#top

The only version of reality I am allowed to live in is the one that she declares.  I realize even in writing that it doesn't make sense that I would submit to living in her version of reality, but I can't figure out how to escape.  What's wrong with me that I don't trust my own version of reality?  

No sense in arguing with her about “reality,” but what keeps you from holding onto your own private truths?

She is only willing to communicate in her version of reality.  Any attempt by me to assert a different version is met with rapid fire FOG, so quick and overwhelming it just turns me into a comatose zombie.  I find myself at the end of many "discussions" just staring blankly at the wall wondering where my life went.

What if you steadfastly don’t JADE? (Justify, Argue, Defend,Explain)

She seems to have a never ending arsenal of gut wrenching insults to throw at me that I never expected.  It's like trying to hold your ground with a machine gun firing at your chest, you feel that if you don't take cover you are going to die.

You are under no obligation to listen to those insults. You can exit the conversation and say something like, “I’m going to return in 20 minutes and we can talk more then after things have cooled down.”

It may not work well the first few times you try it, but if repeated over time, you will establish a new pattern.

The most painless thing to do is to just take my mind somewhere else until she is done.  But I hate myself for being so weak.

You’ve been protecting yourself. There’s nothing to be ashamed of.

[once removed]

you sound exhausted 

i think the first thing is to build back up your emotional strength and well being. we cant be in a good position to make decisions, or to make changes without that.

I have read so many books, and seen many therapists

are you seeing anyone now?

[4peece]

Yes, I am seeing someone now, but once a week doesn't seem like enough.  My work schedule just wont allow more than that.

No sense in arguing with her about “reality,” but what keeps you from holding onto your own private truths?

I have a hard time understanding my emotions on this.  I feel incredibly compelled to "honor" her version of reality.  It's like the dialogue goes through my head that a good man and husband would not discount the thoughts and feelings of his beloved wife.  Logically it doesn't make sense, but I feel somehow morally obligated, and if I don't I am being a male chauvinist.  I really don't know if this comes from years with her and conditioning, or from my own past, or a combination of both. 

When I try to place my truth as equally valid as hers, or forbid, more valid than hers, I seem to come up against this impenetrable wall in my mind that tells me that makes me ignorant, and unworthy of love.  That sounds illogical even as I'm typing it out, but that's the best way I can describe it. 

I seem to have a deeply held subconscious belief that a man's opinion will always be less valid than a woman's, and that is amplified when it comes to issues of emotion and with my spouse that I am supposed to honor and cherish.

I don't mean to be sexist, I promise.  It's like this belief is held so deeply that it seems tied to my core identity.

I don't know if that makes any sense, and maybe that is getting too deep for a discussion board.  It is so incredibly odd to notice a subconscious belief that I have, yet feel powerless to re-program it.

Thank you for your comments, I will try the NO JADE and come back.

What if she is not yelling or insulting, but I just feel very manipulated by her distortion of my truth?  Would it still be ok then to walk away and come back.  I guess that seems less justifiable.

I feel like I'm coming across as crazy, but I'm just trying to be as honest with what I feel as possible, because I feel safe here, and I desperately want help.

[once removed]

I don't know if that makes any sense, and maybe that is getting too deep for a discussion board

this is a great place to explore ourselves and do personal inventory...its a big part of improving our relationships, or our circumstances, or our lives.

i am wondering though, if youve explored it with your therapist and curious what their thoughts are.

do you think its part of why the shots she fires are so painful?

[4peece]

I haven't explored that issue with my therapist yet, there seem to be so many things to unload at this point, that the time seems to get taken up and I could spend hours exploring.

This has been something I have known was an issue of some kind, but I don't think I could put my finger on anything real until I tried to put it into words in my last post.  I will bring it up the next session which is tomorrow evening.  It's the thing I look forward to the most during the week. 

I am accepting today for the first time that I am going to at least investigate the divorce avenue.  I feel like today I have looked at the reality of my unhappiness and the depth of the dysfunction.  As much as I hope and wish with everything that I am to find what I need.  I see that even with improvement, I don't think my marriage can become that. 

If I'm totally honest with myself, it never was, I just kept hoping that it would someday give me peace, and that day has never come. I have always hoped that I would enter a conversation with my wife and not be afraid that she would say something that would cut deeply.  I just started to accept the fact that I wold never feel safe with her, but that fact has slowly eaten me alive until I don't even think I know what love would feel like.  Do people ever really feel safe in a relationship?

Just thinking about it for real is gut wrenching.  If there are any members out there who have been through a divorce like this with kids involved, I would really appreciate knowing that you survived it and that it is possible to find peace again.

[once removed]

I will bring it up the next session which is tomorrow evening. 

how did it go?

I am accepting today for the first time that I am going to at least investigate the divorce avenue. 

If there are any members out there who have been through a divorce like this with kids involved, I would really appreciate knowing that you survived it and that it is possible to find peace again.

for the most part, those members are on the Family Law board. you may want to explore options, outcomes, and resources on that board. i would encourage you though, to continue your work on this board; you are likely going to need the tools in the meantime, whichever way you decide.