I wouldn’t minimise the physical impacts stress and anxiety can have on us

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread as it merited its own discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337721.new#new

Funny you should mention IBS, when I first met my W at uni 22 years ago she was taking meds for IBS, she kinda grew out of it as the relationship went through somewhat of a calm period after about 5+ yrs or so. Looking back on it I see a 100% link between general repressed anger and anxiety (it tailed off around the same time as self harm ceased). I would almost put money on that if you sorted your head out and sorted your surroundings out, you IBS would likely go away.

I wouldn’t minimise the physical impacts stress and anxiety can have on us.

Enabler

[Enabler]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread as it merited its own discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337721.new#new

Funny you should mention IBS, when I first met my W at uni 22 years ago she was taking meds for IBS, she kinda grew out of it as the relationship went through somewhat of a calm period after about 5+ yrs or so. Looking back on it I see a 100% link between general repressed anger and anxiety (it tailed off around the same time as self harm ceased). I would almost put money on that if you sorted your head out and sorted your surroundings out, you IBS would likely go away.

I wouldn’t minimise the physical impacts stress and anxiety can have on us.

Enabler

[formflier]

So..I'll vouch for IBS symptoms being tied to calm...or lack of it..in your life.

My stuff is a bit more complicated because I've had several rounds of parasites/tropical diseases from deployments.  I'll say in general though that when I'm centered...my bowels are more likely to be centered.

 At the risk of TMI...now I take some sort of bowel emergency as a "friendly tap on the shoulder" to reflect on my self care and how "centered" I am.  More often than not...I realize there are things to address.

Wow...don't we talk about the most interesting things here...

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

What I found weird was that my W's GP felt no reason to ask more probing questions about the cause of the stomach issues and just handed out Colpermint Peppermint Oil tablets like they were sweets. I know it's not always practical but if a teenager came to me with severe stomach issues, I'd be inclined to get them to the nearest P I could get them in with.

The other one is my W's obsession with popping paracetamol and Ibuprofen for 'head aches', AKA suppressed anger. She doesn't go anywhere without a pack of paracetamol. Personally I probably pop a pack a year and pretty much reserved for heinous hangovers.

Enabler

[Red5]

I think we are highjacking the tread…

In my u/bpd W's last career billet before she 'resigned', she had several other ladies under her in her office work environment, they 'kept the books'.

One young lady, she was constantly telling anyone whom would listen about her IBS.

Red5W would come home each day, and sit on the back porch and talk about this lady, and a couple of others, they seemed to be giving Red5W a "fit"… according to Red5W, not following directions, missing deadlines, not keeping the books xls (endless) up to date, a myriad of 'problems' inter-office… this was a year before bpd epiphany.

Then, after I went back inside to take care of S(autistic), she would call her mum (MIL), and start all over again, this would go on for about 3 hours, every evening toward the end of it.

So, I tried to 'help'… after all, I was a retired Marine Staff NCO… I had all kinds of 'people skills'…

I asked her, "so what is going on now"… she responded, "she is always late, has foot problems, doctor appointments, and now IBS, she doesn't complete any of her tasks on time, she is always dramatic, and when she filled out her supervisors assessment, she said that I (Red5W) was unapproachable"… "she is engaged to some Veteran whom she says has PTSD, they have a farm with lots of animals, she is always having problems, I'm going to have to give her a reprimand counseling"...

Red5W pretty much ran this lady off, and another lady after that in short order… there was trouble with the direct report VP, kind of an EEO thing, Red5W got "investigated" for discrimination… it got ugly, so they just quit, this lady and another… the 'other' had - had a miscarriage, and was also having a lot of medical issues parallel to this.

I tried to relate to Red5W, "sometimes people have issues in their lives, maybe you could try to help them, the medical ins at the college covers counseling, talk to them as a friend, help them if you can"… she pretty much told me to go watch the grass grow…

After that all happened, Red5W had to take on their xls book keeping tasks, since they were 'let go'… there was even an unemployment suit filed… lots and lots of drama… but Red5W was not to blame for any of it (victim).

Yes, life stress will contribute to IBS, and other aliments as well.

About six months later, Red5W got dx with /C/… had a major operation, and the chemo started... and then she claimed to me that her direct report VP wanted her to be 'let go' due to her /C/ dx (?)… there was another investigation, and Red5W got 'counseled' for anger issues towards the 'head office' (VP)… this infuriated her… so she quit, and then went back later, and resigned (?), and went out on medical pension… this all happened right abut the same time I had the bpd epiphany…

I've know lots of folks, that IBS was directly attributed to stress, professional & personal type stressors.

*I know I would not want to work for my u/bpdw… nope : (

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

When I was in college, I worked at a mental health facility. I was assigned to the teenager group, since I wasn't much older than that myself. This was before HIPPA and I was free to peruse their medical files. What struck me as odd was that nearly all of them had some mention of gastrointestinal disorders in their records. Not sure what that pattern signified.

[GaGrl]

My DH lived with his uBPD/BPD then-wife from 1972 until she moved out in 1991 to live with her latest boyfriend. Even after she moved out, they did not divorce -- she is from a culture where many marriages were arranged for financial and status advantages for the families, and after the children are reared, spouses turn a blind eye to lovers. So she was fine doing what she wanted and staying married.

So now for the litany of stress-related illnesses...

One reason DH didn't date or seek a divorce is Ex had early on given him herpes, and he didn't think anyone would want to deal with that. So that was his first medical condition that can be exacerbated with stress.

He, like FF, had some weird tropical "stuff" while in SE Asia and I'm pretty sure one that recurs is malaria.

By the time we reconnected in 2005 and married, he was getting regular medical care-- high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and diverticulosis/diverticulitis plus meds for herpes outbreaks. All are conditions that are aggravated by stress.

Interestingly, I was doing some leadership training development and looked at how MBTI types handle stress. DH is INTJ, and they internalize stress and exhibit stomach/digestive problems! Bingo!

It's actually happening today -- our grandaughter (18) is having some "adulting" issues, her mother is in Thailand for a few weeks, and DH is trying to let GD18 deal with consequences. So he's feeling diverticulitis twinges.

Now he's savvy enough that when he feels something "off" with his body, he asks, "What am I stressing over?"

The body-mind-emotion connection is very, very real. I think I'll look for that info on how the MBTI types handle stress.

[Red5]

I read someplace a while back, “the body keeps score”.

It is quite common to witness, professional military types... eg’ senior enlisted, I’m speaking Marine and Navy here, Sergeant Majors, Master Gunnery Sergeants, Senior Chiefs & Master Chiefs dropping dead of heart attacks only months before or after retirement, in the case of those whom stay till around the thirty plus years time in service mark.

Seen it many times... over the last three decades or so...

I need both hands to count the funerals I’ve attended during the last ten or so years... since I was old and senior enough to understand... some were suicides as well ; (

They used to tell us, if you can stay alive ten years past your retirement day, you’ll be alright.

I was told by the battalion surgeon during my discharge physical that I had hypertension... a heart murmur and a crooked back (mild scoliosis).

... and “bad joints”, “nerve damage”... and... wait for it... out of sync plumbing (IBS?)... due to gerd/ acid reflux... and sleep disorders (apnea)... as I snore like a sawmill with a train running through it...

I was like what!

Doc!, seriously?

I’ve been retired for eight years now after having spent twenty six years on active duty.

We all keep track of each other... we lose one or two each year from our peer group.

Got to take care of yourself... keep up the PT, not so much booze, and lay off them damn smokes too!

I recently learned that our SNCOIC, when we were down in Pensacola on instructor duty, he passed away last Christmas, he was only 56, he had cancer, he had been sick for a while... “Larry” was a Marines Marine... we all drank coffee and smoked cigarettes while on instructor duty, like fiends...
 
And you got to watch your diet... especially as you don’t have to stay so skinny watching your weight as we had to while on active duty... some guys go a bit crazy, and gain a lot of weight after they exit the Corps...and don’t get so stressed out at life... embrace retirement... go and join the VFW, and get yourself a “RETIRED MARINE”  baseball cap, grow a beard, and start fishing more!

Got to relax... and “take off your combat boots”!

Yes... your body is “keeping score”, and it’s going to collect if you don’t take care of yourself.

I write a somewhat light hearted version here, but  CPTSD is very real, many have served multiple combat tours since 2001, seen a lot of bad $hit... that takes its toll, lots of substance abuse... depression... we all try to take care of one-another... lots of divorce too, another SNCOIC of mine , he stuck a shotgun in his mouth about two weeks after he retired... it was a divorce thing coupled with severe depression... he was not successful and he is still with us, thank God!

None of us saw this in “Mike”,  no clue he was going to pull that $hit... he had to have the front of his face reconstructed...

This is serious stuff... stress will kill you...

Red5

[Longterm]

The other one is my W's obsession with popping paracetamol and Ibuprofen for 'head aches', AKA suppressed anger. She doesn't go anywhere without a pack of paracetamol. Personally I probably pop a pack a year and pretty much reserved for heinous hangovers.

My ex does this. I had a work accident about 8yrs ago and I had 5 ops, I was off work for 5yrs. I used to take 500mg cocodamol but after a few months they stopped having much of an effect and so I stopped ordering them. Any who, a few years before the split I went to the docs because of increased pain and he suggested pain medication, I wasn't interested but he wouldn't shut up so I agreed to some pills (I needed further surgery) and he asked what I wanted and I said some cocodamol. He got on his computer to do a script and suddenly said "I can't give you Any, you have recently had some and have had them consistently" I told him I didn't and he spun his monitor round and showed me all the pills "i" had had. I again said I hadn't and he said "who orders your meds" I told him my wife. He looked at me and said "Any meds you have, hide them and tell your wife to come see me". Me and my wife had a chat that day and it was obvious she was lying.

When she came back it was probably the worst I had ever seen her in many regards, but her pill intake was ridiculous. She openly admitted to having a problem and said she takes them because they make her feel "good". She also claims to have IBS but when pushed, disclosed she was not taking meds for it?

There was constantly some pain coming from somewhere, there was always something up. I had gone through her phone towards the end too and saw that she was constantly messaging her sister (Drs receptionist) asking for scripts. This Drs was not our family Drs, she had changed practices for obvious reasons.

LT.

[formflier]

Hey...if you have any information about how ESTJs deal with stress...I'd like to check it out...

Thanks

FF

[Perdita]

Mine takes expensive medication daily for his IBS.  He won't even entertain the idea of looking at ways to actually try and cure himself.  For as long as I have known him he's taken these types of medication.  I suffered from the same over 10 years ago and it was definitely due to stress and emotional abuse within the family (before my r/s with SO).  Currently I notice that I tend to have heavier and shorter menstrual cycles since living with him.  I definitely feel very stressed out. Working on a commission basis, helping elderly parents daily and then still having this 5 yr old man child to deal with in the evenings.  Somehow I always end up at the bottom of the list.

[Enabler]

Hey...if you have any information about how ESTJs deal with stress...I'd like to check it out...

The way I think about things is as follows... "Stress" is too generic and needs to be split out into components (from an online emotion wheel) primary, secondary and tertiary emotions:

https://www.thejuntoinstitute.com/blog-posts/the-junto-emotion-wheel-why-and-how-we-use-it

Fear >> > Scared, Terrified, Insecure, Nervous, Horrified >> >> Frightened, Helpless, Panic, Hysterical, Inferior, Inadequate, Worried, Anxious, Mortified, Dreadful

Anger >> > Enraged, Exasperated, Irritable, Envious, Disgusted >> >> Hateful, Hostile, Agitated, Frustrated, Annoyed, Aggravated, Resentful, Jealous, Contemptuous, Revolted

For me, a fellow ESTJ my body deals with Fear and Anger in the following ways.

Fear -  My primary sources of fear are; my relationship, deadlines and sorting 'issues' in the home and large complex trades at work. Wind... A LOT OF WIND, an ungodly amount of flatulence, stomach gurgles. When it gets really bad my ears go deaf as though they are slightly muffled. My whole body tingles especially my hands. Numb fingers. It's a bit like there's a buzzing over my whole body especially upper legs and buttocks. Appetite reduces. Eye's feel like someone is pushing them deep into my skull. To get myself out of this I rationalise, mentally sort things through. My mind works in processes and pathways, a bit like when you're trying to work out how to get from A to B, maybe you think of which road you'd take first and optimise the route over multiple iterations. I replay things in my head time and time again until I get things to work / make sense. During this time I become very very focused and introverted, tap feet, short tempered, snappy, bossy and very intolerant... I can't be having people interrupt the flow of thought when my head is optimising the plan. I need people to do things immediately and not be at all emotional, I need me and them to be utterly rational. I clean and tidy things a lot. Small bits of dirt bother me more and I find myself cleaning cupboard doors.

Anger -  My primary sources of anger are; my relationship, my wife's behaviour and her contemptuous treatment of me, my W's OM, my mother, people taking advantage of me. Physical effects on me. Notable increase in body temperature even when I'm inactive, often I think I'm coming down with something. Nasal congestion and sore forehead, feels like my brain has expanded. Desire to do something as though I have pent up energy that needs to be spent. Red mist. Gesticulate more. Bite my lip (Hard leaving teeth marks on the inside of my lip). Muscular tension across my shoulders, neck and upper arms. To get myself out of the zone I do something practical, clean something, go for a walk, breath very very deeply and feel each breath, I rationalise like hell to try and make sense of my anger. If I can I will shut my eyes and go into a meditative state (Shut down).

Enabler   

[G1B8oN]

Historically I had IBS from being a teenager but as my MH problems improved through getting out of my toxic FOO home environment, living on my own, coming out of the closet and escaping the religious cult I was raised in, my IBS improved to the point of only having a few triggers. These were mainly acute stress things like checking my bank balance (this has always been a weird high-stress thing for me), international travel and hospital or dentist appointments.

Since getting with my uBPDgf I can pretty much set my watch by how her behaviour affects me. Whenever she's punishing me by for example, giving me the silent treatment, running off dramatically into the night or flirting with people right in my face I can't stray far from the bathroom. She knows that she affects me this way and seems to take some sick pleasure from the fact that she can make me this distressed.

Over the past few months as I've tried to build some boundaries and become a little bit less enmeshed and attached, these behaviours don't affect me as much or at all. This has upset her greatly because in her mind it means I care less about her when I don't get ill from her punishment!

As an aside, she's always had terrible, chronic IBS I'm sure her perpetual mental anguish has a lot to do with it. It's worsened greatly by drinking alcohol but of course that doesn't stop her from drinking heavily most nights.   

[GaGrl]

https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2015/08/02/how-each-mbti-type-reacts-to-stress-and-how-to-help/

This article is pretty comprehensive -- it starts with WHAT stresses us, and I took a look at FF's ESTJ list -- sounds pretty much on target!

[Enabler]

What a brilliant article... pretty much sums up me including how to deal with me as and when I get in a flap.

[snowglobe]

Hi guys, what a splendid idea to bring this subject to light. I was embarrassed to share this before, but seeing you all being vulnerable I would like to open up. I have been experiencing constipation since I was a young child. My parents fighting constantly had put me in a combative like state. I wasn’t able to Eliminate or empty my bowels for days at a time. My father, who was a practicing physician desensitized me to medical procedures so much so that I could have passed for a ginny  pig without putting a fight. Once they divorced and the ugly dust settled, which took years, my bowel control emerged.
In the recent history, about 4 years ago I developed similar symptoms, only with glutamine, abdominal pain, constipation and abdominal bloating. Miraculously, every day after my food intake I would get fast, bloating and constipated. It was making me depressed. The fact that my young body that was supposed to function like the clock is giving up on me. I went through every possible procedure to ensure that it wasn’t Krohn’s, or anything more serious. The verdict came in its-c. I was put in medication that was worse then the symptoms itself. My brain was foggy. I couldn’t take it. So I tried different diets (low FOD map) is highly successful for treating gastrointestinal issues, went through several colonoscopies and now I’m about 50% better. Lots of fiber, Liquid intake, “trying to manage my stress”, ha ha, not... someone earlier wrote that the body keeps score, I tend to agree. My pain and anguish are directed inwards. I don’t lash out, smash glass or act out on my hurt and pain. I don’t actively self distract so my body does it for me. It tries to tell me that I’m in danger and things aren’t going well.

[formflier]

https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2015/08/02/how-each-mbti-type-reacts-to-stress-and-how-to-help/

This article is pretty comprehensive -- it starts with WHAT stresses us, and I took a look at FF's ESTJ list -- sounds pretty much on target!

Thanks for this..big WOW moment when comparing my stuff and my wife's...I'm going to start a new thread about this article and how I see it applying.

Best,

FF

[Red5]

This article (url link above GaGrl post) is pretty comprehensive -- it starts with WHAT stresses us, and I took a look at FF's ESTJ list... sounds pretty much on target!

I am an INFP… and what I read was also "on glide scope" ~>

WoW! 

hmmm,

Red5

[Jareth89]

When I was in college, I worked at a mental health facility. I was assigned to the teenager group, since I wasn't much older than that myself. This was before HIPPA and I was free to peruse their medical files. What struck me as odd was that nearly all of them had some mention of gastrointestinal disorders in their records. Not sure what that pattern signified.

Stress can affect the body yes, but you may want to look up how 'leaky gut/intestinal permeability' causes inflammation which can manifest as mental health problems since the inflammation affects the whole body including the brain.

[Cat Familiar]

Stress can affect the body yes, but you may want to look up how 'leaky gut/intestinal permeability' causes inflammation which can manifest as mental health problems since the inflammation affects the whole body including the brain.

Interesting...I knew about the vagus nerve connecting the gut to the brain, but a quick Google led me to this article from Harvard Medical School about behavioral and emotional issues connected to GI disorders: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/the-gut-brain-connection

[AskingWhy]

I read someplace a while back,... “the body keeps score”.

Red, there is a book by that title that is about the long-term effects of emotional trauma by psychiatrist Bessel Van der Kolk.  It talks a lot about complex PTSD.  

We nons often have C-PTSD from our years of living with out pwBPD.   Being on eggshells for a long time will do this to you.

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748

[Enabler]

Anyone watched "Heal" on Netflix? It's primarily about how the body can heal it'self with mind power. I wasn't utterly convinced that there wasn't a significant amount of selection bias in the miracles BUT, it actually gave me more insight into how many people with twisted minds and ailment managed to straight out their thinking and seemingly cured their ailments at the same time. The question I asked myself at the end was, was it sorting out the mind that cured the individuals of the ailment, or the ailment being caused by the contorted thinking and as such both were inextricably linked. The subjects of the film mostly seemed to have some big burden then needed to move through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Hpm-6Inxc

[Jareth89]

Red, there is a book by that title that is about the long-term effects of emotional trauma by psychiatrist Bessel Van der Kolk.  It talks a lot about complex PTSD.  

We nons often have C-PTSD from our years of living with out pwBPD.   Being on eggshells for a long time will do this to you.

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748

Exactly, and knowing this is why it's hard for family members to watch the son/daughter in a relationship with the BPD person. It harms everyone.