Did she intentionally manipulate me?

[Depression = 72% of members]

So not sure where to start but my wife and I have been seeing a therapist, individually and twice as a couple. The last meeting I had with her she finally turned to me and said I'm very worried about you because of my depressed state and pulled out DSM5 and read the symptoms of BPD off and asked if it fit my wife and I replied it did and then told me that she has BPD. Truthfully it didn't hit with a lot of weight as I had never really heard of it before and finally I began to have answers. She assured me that my wife doesn't mean to hurt me and she has this disorder because of her POS mother who was emotionally unstable and abusive (words cannot describe my dislike of her). However, she told me I had two options: leave or stay. She said staying would be better but I feel I'm at a point I am burnt out, bitter, angry, confused, sad, guilty and just tired. I struggle with questions of if she didn't mean to hurt me did she intentionally manipulate me? Did she know what she was doing the entire time, even if she couldn't help herself? My wife doesn't even know her own diagnosis yet and the therapist said it would be best for my wife to arrive at the diagnosis herself. The problem is that my wife told me in a conversation one time the therapist said she does not think she has a personality disorder. So all assignments to help my wife figure everything out she does and then some but misses the whole point. Honestly writing all this has helped. I have been married 8 years and everything is coming into focus. My wife is an amazing person and has accomplished a lot but there are times I feel I may not survive her getting better or she may never. I struggle with guilt wanting to leave in hopes of regaining some measure of happiness and stability whatever that may be. I have these thoughts that all I want is to sleep with another woman and that I'm selfish for wanting to leave and it has nothing to do with my wife so I further spiral. My world is upside down and I'm not sure anymore which way is up and just needed to find others who can empathize not just sympathize.

[tomservo]

So not sure where to start but my wife and I have been seeing a therapist, individually and twice as a couple. The last meeting I had with her she finally turned to me and said I'm very worried about you because of my depressed state and pulled out DSM5 and read the symptoms of BPD off and asked if it fit my wife and I replied it did and then told me that she has BPD. Truthfully it didn't hit with a lot of weight as I had never really heard of it before and finally I began to have answers. She assured me that my wife doesn't mean to hurt me and she has this disorder because of her POS mother who was emotionally unstable and abusive (words cannot describe my dislike of her). However, she told me I had two options: leave or stay. She said staying would be better but I feel I'm at a point I am burnt out, bitter, angry, confused, sad, guilty and just tired. I struggle with questions of if she didn't mean to hurt me did she intentionally manipulate me? Did she know what she was doing the entire time, even if she couldn't help herself? My wife doesn't even know her own diagnosis yet and the therapist said it would be best for my wife to arrive at the diagnosis herself. The problem is that my wife told me in a conversation one time the therapist said she does not think she has a personality disorder. So all assignments to help my wife figure everything out she does and then some but misses the whole point. Honestly writing all this has helped. I have been married 8 years and everything is coming into focus. My wife is an amazing person and has accomplished a lot but there are times I feel I may not survive her getting better or she may never. I struggle with guilt wanting to leave in hopes of regaining some measure of happiness and stability whatever that may be. I have these thoughts that all I want is to sleep with another woman and that I'm selfish for wanting to leave and it has nothing to do with my wife so I further spiral. My world is upside down and I'm not sure anymore which way is up and just needed to find others who can empathize not just sympathize.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Still Here]

there are times I feel I may not survive her getting better or she may never.

I struggle with guilt wanting to leave in hopes of regaining some measure of happiness

So, I just got here myself as well, but I've done a lot of reading.  Those two sentences (right next to each other) kind of say it all.  Don't know if you'll survive but feel too guilty to leave.  I struggle with the same dichotomy myself almost every day.  I bet lots of other do too.

I know we don't advise each other what to do and I won't.  But listening to Walking on Eggshells on my phone when things get bad, always helps me keep this balance in balance. 

[tomservo]

Thank you for the response, I've seen that book crop up quite a bit. I'm an engineer and don't believe in coincidences and see the pattern. I'll buy the book today and get started on it. It's helpful to know I'm not the only one who experiences all of this, some days it is very isolating.

[Ozzie101]

Welcome, tomservo! (I'm guessing you're a MST3K fan? )

I'd second Still Here in recommending the Eggshells book. Many of us have read it. It was a real eye-opener for me in dealing with my husband and does an excellent job of explaining the BPD mindset and patterns.

You're definitely not alone, as you'll see from reading and posting around the boards. There's a whole family of us here and we listen to, advise and support each other as much as we can.

Your therapist is right in that you shouldn't share the possible diagnosis with your wife (that rarely goes well). Better to come from a medical professional. Whether she knows about it or accepts it or not, though, there are things you can do that can improve your situation. I came here feeling incredibly confused and hopeless but the support here and the tools I've learned have made a world of difference in my life.

Do you mind sharing what some of your wife's troubling behaviors are?

[tomservo]

I am a MST3K fan, my dad got me hooked on it in the 90's. About my wife's behavior a lot of the information is still new to me so I am still struggling with what is typical behavior and what is BPD behavior. But some things that I have seen that are pretty typical are mood swings. Sometimes I'm not sure if today will be good or bad. So definitely one day I'm the best husband ever, the next I'm the worst. Speaking harshly and being surprised she was when I talk to her about it. Controlling the finances and a good part of my life in an effort to ease her anxiety and then buying way too much stuff for her hobbies and interests. Development of an eating disorder. Critical of herself. Fear of abandonment. Definitely a feeling a superiority, feeling her interests and needs are more important than mine. Having a very intense sexual relationship in the beginning of the marriage (both celibate so I can't speak to dating) and then almost no intimacy as the relationship has progressed and blaming any intimacy problems on me. I realize that is a bit personal but just trying to be open, I apologize if I make anyone uncomfortable. Making me believe most of our marriage problems originate from my behavior. Much of this is something my therapist has helped me realize and am still processing. Much of it I would say is pretty text book, when my therapist meet me I was the last piece of the puzzle when diagnosing my wife.

[Chosen]

Hi tomservo,

Definitely don't share the diagnosis with your wife, especially since she doesn't believe she has any problems.  Your words will be used against you.  I suggest you to read up some of the tools available on this site which may help you in communicating with your wife.  Married to an undiagnosed pwBPD (and most likely will never be diagnosed), I love how this site teaches us that even one person changing the communication pattern can bring a positive change to the dynamics.  No, it will not cure the BPD or change the other person, but the relationship could improve, or at least be more manageable. 

Now, being in a relationship with a pwBPD is very draining, and I believe that you yourself have to be in a mentally stable place to manage that, so please take care of yourself mentally as well. 

As to your question on whether the manipulation was intentional, my experience is: no and yes (note I put the "no" first).  If our BPD partners intentionally hurt us, it would just make them evil, which I like to believe is not the case.  However, if you understand the nature of BPD (especially how facts = feelings), and also how many BPD sufferers may have associative moments/ periods and also have a "need" to project their unwanted feelings (because they don't have the emotional maturity to deal with negative feelings basically), then the hurt they inflict on us is actually what I call "subconsciously intentional"- they "needed" to do it so their negative feelings would be dealt with.  That's the only way they know how.  They want to make us suffer as much as they're suffering, so they make it painful for us (emotionally and physically speaking).  I would say it's similar to how people feel so stuck and so upset that they start self-harming, expect now they're hurting their loved ones (which they kind of see as part of themselves because of their poorly-defined boundaries).

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense to you; the able babble is just my own observation from personal experience, I'm not a psychiatrist.  See if it helps you understand the condition more.  Hang in there!

[tomservo]

It does make a lot of sense. I remember feeling that she hangs onto a lot of her anger because it helps her feel justified. I'm glad to know that in some part she does not mean to hurt me and it seems weird to say but I realized I had to learn to forgive her of how she has treated me in the past. When I first learned the diagnosis there was the initial release where I was able to let go of a lot of pent up frustration and as time has passed other things have taken its place rebuilding that frustration. I'll keep searching the forum and other sources. Thank you for the reassuring words just seeing others and how they feel what I feel and share similar experiences is very reassuring. To be honest much of it is still very surreal to me, I still have problems blaming myself for everything (therapist told me this is because I am a people pleaser type personality) and struggle with trying to see when the BPD is talking.

[Ozzie101]

A LOT of us here (like me) are people-pleasers. You're definitely not alone there.

As Chosen said, there are many resources here that can do a world of good in your relationship, or just for you in general. Better communication skills and strong mental health are good for us in all relationships -- not just the one with a pwBPD.

We're here to help and there's a lot of information here to digest. Sometimes best to take it in pieces. If you'd like, we can guide you through it so it's easier and less overwhelming.

[tomservo]

It seems like my first step is reading Walking on Eggshells. So I'll start there, I've read more than a few websites and opinions ranging from sympathetic to almost witch hunting. Any guidance would be appreciated. I apologize if any of this seems whiny or needy I just am relieved I'm not going insane and others know how I feel.

[Ozzie101]

Nothing to apologize for! And you're not whiny or needy. We can all understand the feeling of relief (mixed with being overwhelmed) and that's what we're here for -- to listen and to help.

That book is a great place to start. I hope you'll keep us posted here and let us know your thoughts as you go along.

Also, if there are any specific, immediate problem areas in your relationship, I hope you'll feel free to share those here so we can help with tools and experience. Speaking from experience, it works.

[tomservo]

THANK YOU!