Really tired of his financial excuses

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Sorry all, a bit of a vent today. My BPD ex has reached a new level of financial irresponsibility. He has been having trouble keeping up on his child support since he started paying again in Aug 2018 (he was on stress leave from June 2017 - end of March 2018). He has continued to tell me since he started back at work in March 2018 how he has so much debt and he can't keep up etc. He sent me his T4 a few months ago trying to show how "little" he made last year. He made $55,000 Canadian. This was despite being on sick leave from Jan 2018 - end of March 2018 and working part time for some of the summer. Guess he forgot about that part. It's still more than I make per year.

He thought he might go bankrupt which I posted about prior on here but he didn't end up going that route. Well, he finally got rid of his very expensive vehicle over a month ago so I thought that might help ease things but wouldn't you know it, he just decided to buy a puppy. Yes an 8 week old German Shepherd puppy.  Makes total sense... I was pretty angry as I knew this meant he'd be even worse with his financial situation.

So he sent me an e-transfer for less than half of his child support amount a few days ago. I was very surprised he even sent anything but was happy about just getting something. And sure enough I got the email yesterday asking if I could send it back as he wasn't getting paid vacation pay this cheque and didn't account for that. Seriously?

I sent him an email saying that I would but we would need to figure out a plan moving forward as that meant there would be no child support for July and that he was behind $1300 (just support, not including activities/daycare) since last August. His response was typical in fashion. He gave me a list of his expenses and how much he makes per month. I take everything he says with a grain of salt and don't believe the amount he claims to make, but even with the amounts he gave me he still had $300-400 left over per month. Wth?

His groceries were $400 and then his going out to eat expenses were $400-500 per month. They used to be $800/month. His rationale was that as a trucker he is entitled to that and that most truckers buy many more meals on the road than that. He said he refused to pack sandwiches or salads when I suggested that as a cheaper and healthier alternative. And then he went on his usual rant about how he refuses to work 110 hours anymore and that he is entitled to a life and that he's meeting with someone tomorrow about a job possibility. This just never ends.

So I've been trying to get through to the Family Responsibility office for some time now to see about having the support deducted from his pay automatically. I am going to start the process as I understand it takes some time. I should have done it some time ago but was trying to let him get on back on his feet and wasn't sure if he was going to go bankrupt. The dog situation has put me over the edge patience-wise. The really weird thing though, and I'm a bit paranoid about it, was in his rant email he suggested going through them. Why would he do that? He would never suggest such a thing unless he would benefit from it so I have to wonder what is up with that. Unless he wants me to file so that they might take away his driver's license and then he wouldn't be able to work and could blame me for that? I wouldn't be surprised.

[StillHopeful73]

Sorry all, a bit of a vent today. My BPD ex has reached a new level of financial irresponsibility. He has been having trouble keeping up on his child support since he started paying again in Aug 2018 (he was on stress leave from June 2017 - end of March 2018). He has continued to tell me since he started back at work in March 2018 how he has so much debt and he can't keep up etc. He sent me his T4 a few months ago trying to show how "little" he made last year. He made $55,000 Canadian. This was despite being on sick leave from Jan 2018 - end of March 2018 and working part time for some of the summer. Guess he forgot about that part. It's still more than I make per year.

He thought he might go bankrupt which I posted about prior on here but he didn't end up going that route. Well, he finally got rid of his very expensive vehicle over a month ago so I thought that might help ease things but wouldn't you know it, he just decided to buy a puppy. Yes an 8 week old German Shepherd puppy.  Makes total sense... I was pretty angry as I knew this meant he'd be even worse with his financial situation.

So he sent me an e-transfer for less than half of his child support amount a few days ago. I was very surprised he even sent anything but was happy about just getting something. And sure enough I got the email yesterday asking if I could send it back as he wasn't getting paid vacation pay this cheque and didn't account for that. Seriously?

I sent him an email saying that I would but we would need to figure out a plan moving forward as that meant there would be no child support for July and that he was behind $1300 (just support, not including activities/daycare) since last August. His response was typical in fashion. He gave me a list of his expenses and how much he makes per month. I take everything he says with a grain of salt and don't believe the amount he claims to make, but even with the amounts he gave me he still had $300-400 left over per month. Wth?

His groceries were $400 and then his going out to eat expenses were $400-500 per month. They used to be $800/month. His rationale was that as a trucker he is entitled to that and that most truckers buy many more meals on the road than that. He said he refused to pack sandwiches or salads when I suggested that as a cheaper and healthier alternative. And then he went on his usual rant about how he refuses to work 110 hours anymore and that he is entitled to a life and that he's meeting with someone tomorrow about a job possibility. This just never ends.

So I've been trying to get through to the Family Responsibility office for some time now to see about having the support deducted from his pay automatically. I am going to start the process as I understand it takes some time. I should have done it some time ago but was trying to let him get on back on his feet and wasn't sure if he was going to go bankrupt. The dog situation has put me over the edge patience-wise. The really weird thing though, and I'm a bit paranoid about it, was in his rant email he suggested going through them. Why would he do that? He would never suggest such a thing unless he would benefit from it so I have to wonder what is up with that. Unless he wants me to file so that they might take away his driver's license and then he wouldn't be able to work and could blame me for that? I wouldn't be surprised.

[worriedStepmom]

My sister's ex used to do that to her - tell her he was too broke to pay and send her lists of his expenses.

It doesn't matter.

It truly doesn't matter that he spends $X on food or that he eats out so much or that blahblahblah excuse.  He has a legal and moral responsibility to contribute to his child's upbringing.  It is on HIM to figure out how to do that.

My sister had to learn to disengage from the details and from trying to help him figure out how to afford it.  Because bottom line is that he CAN afford it, he just doesn't want to pay.  She did go to our state agency to get him on the registry.  CS began to be deducted automatically from his paycheck, and the state threatened him with jail time if he didn't pay.

Now her ex is guilting their son - the 12-year-old tried to give all of his allowance to his dad to pay for food, since child support is so expensive.  My sister put a stop to that too.

[StillHopeful73]

Thanks worriedStepmom. You are right, it really doesn't matter. And there will always be an excuse.

I'm just trying to decide how to navigate this. As it is right now he gives some support when it works for him, on his terms. Some months he gives a full monthly child support payment and other months he doesn't. And he never helps to pay with the activities or daycare costs although he is supposed to split on them.

So I finally got through to someone at the Family Responsibility office. They basically said that if he isn't paying then his driver's license would be taken away until he pays and a letter would go to his employer. He has no money to pay the backpay so that means he would end up not being able to work since he drives for a living. I asked if they would try to work with him as far as a payment schedule and she said yes, but I don't want to go from getting some money from him to nothing.

I actually have a feeling that he wants me to file with them so he doesn't have to work. He goes through these phases where he just doesn't want to work, where he complains of having to work too many hours and how this isn't a life...blah, blah, blah. Then something will often happen...an "injury", stress or sick leave etc. so that he is off for a period of time not making any money...and the cycle continues.

So do I file and risk getting nothing? Or do I just keep putting up with his excuses and non-payment? I'm not really sure right now what to do. What I do know is that him not paying is starting to make my debt creep up so I need to do something.

[StillHopeful73]

As an aside, that is disgusting that your sister's ex goes after their 12 year old's allowance. Wow! I know that my ex has taken money from my mom (that is a whole other ball of wax) and he has asked for money from me for coffee/bagel for our daughter on his time, but I don't think my ex has ever taken from his own daughter. But he has stolen from me in the past so who knows.

[kells76]

I don't think my ex has ever taken from his own daughter.

Just as an aside, one of the earlier things that the kids' mom did that had me REALLY scratching my head (and then Googling and then, along with other things, finding this site) was taking their allowances. I remember one of the kids saying something like "I had $5, but then Mom needed it for gas". I was flabbergasted -- I mean, the kids were like 6 and 8 at the time.

I wonder if it has to do with a profound lack of boundaries and separate identities -- your money is my money is "our" money. And/or the inversion of "who's the parent" -- the kid needs to take care of Mom or Dad instead of Mom or Dad being competent and capable. And/or a lack of empathy -- the parent can't even see how it might affect the kid to have their allowance given and then taken right back.

The kids' mom also "borrows" their clothes and has done so for many years. I gave SD11 a hoodie a couple of years ago and saw Mom wearing it within a week.

your sister's ex goes after their 12 year old's allowance

It could even be covert -- less an outright demand of "give me your allowance" and more of a "sigh, I just don't know what I'll do, we don't have money for gas to get you to practice..." where there's implicit pressure for the kid to "save the day" and "sacrifice" and step into the parental role.

Sad, weird stuff.

[worriedStepmom]

It could even be covert -- less an outright demand of "give me your allowance" and more of a "sigh, I just don't know what I'll do, we don't have money for gas to get you to practice..." where there's implicit pressure for the kid to "save the day" and "sacrifice" and step into the parental role.

Yes, that's what happened to my nephew.  Then he gets praise for being so understanding and helping the family.  My sister was livid.

Stillhopeful, if you don't report him, are you able to legally collect on the back child support?  Or is it just gone - he doesn't have to make up for what he's missed because it isn't tracked somewhere?

I don't know what the laws are in your area about collecting on back child support.  Here, there are a lot of ways that the money can eventually be collected, even if it is a long time from now.  And here, a person can be put into jail if they don't pay for long enough (this happened to my nephew's dad when he stopped paying for his first child).

[kells76]

And as an addendum to the allowance thing, maybe this will help some other parents here: we ended up not giving cash allowances to the kids at our house. We keep basically a "bank account" record for them on paper and write down allowances and if they make money from chores. If they want to "cash out" they can. I never thought of this until now, but it does stop them from taking their cash from our place to "rescue" Mom.

And they have a tangible thing to look at to see the payoff of saving up. A few years back SD13 complained to the T about not getting enough allowance at our house. T suggested we give the kids interest on whatever they save (a nice way of putting the "I don't have enough allowance" responsibility back on the kids), so we've been doing that. I was kind of worried about compounding interest when the kids saved up a LOT, but they haven't ever saved more than $80 or so before spending down -- whew.

Anyway, hopefully this might help if allowances are an issue for anyone else.

[ForeverDad]

So he sent me an e-transfer for less than half of his child support amount a few days ago. I was very surprised he even sent anything but was happy about just getting something. And sure enough I got the email yesterday asking if I could send it back as he wasn't getting paid vacation pay this cheque and didn't account for that.
Seriously?

I sent him an email saying that I would but we would need to figure out a plan moving forward...

With the money in hand, why send it back?  Then you're back to waiting for his next payment, whenever that might be.  (Bird in the hand versus the bird in the bush.)  Now, I'm speculating here but if you had instead replied to him, "Let me ponder the matter and get back to you."  Then you could have had time to pose the issue here and gotten some practical feedback.  I think the responses here would have been much less automatic compliance.  Probably something like... "Sorry, I've already scheduled it for some of my bills.  If you're tight now for a week or two I'm sure your next paycheck will balance things out."

Do you see the value of giving yourself time to think and ponder over his surprises?

I had a similar dilemma a few years ago.  After our divorce we continued our joint checking account so I could deposit into it the monthly alimony amount.  Well, one month she withdrew the amount twice.  So the account had a negative balance for a couple weeks.  The account was hit with a balance fee each day.  When I found out - statement arrived - I got as many of the fees waived as I could but the rest I viewed as her problem.  So I paid the next month's amount but no more.  She squawked about wanting me to pay the rest of the fees she caused but I didn't cause it and so didn't pay extra.  Yes, her amount available for withdrawal that next month was reduced but I let her suffer her consequences.  I refused to rush in and save her from herself.

[worriedStepmom]

I refused to rush in and save her from herself.

This.

You shouldn't give back any of the money. He owes you and your child.  It's his job to figure out how to budget appropriately on what he has left - not your job to budget for him.

[StillHopeful73]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

You are right, I shouldn't have given back the money. My main concern was that our daughter is supposed to be on vacation with him this week and that he would need money for food, activities etc. I am taking next week off for vacation so would be stuck if he wasn't able to care for her this week. But I could have still refused and then just hoped he didn't refuse to have her with him, even without cash. My mom could have helped take care of her for a bit if he did refuse, I suppose. She has a lot on her plate already with visiting my Dad every day who is not well with dementia in a care facility. So I really try not to ask too much of her these days. But I could have if I was stuck, I suppose.

But you're right, ForeverDad. I should have sat on it for awhile and came here for advice. I actually initially drafted this long angry email stating how he shouldn't have got the dog yada yada. But I didn't send it. And it wouldn't have mattered anyways since he likely wouldn't have read it. Instead I sent one less heated that said I would transfer it back and did state we needed a plan for moving forward etc. There is definite value in pondering as I find my initial reaction (though my thoughts are full of frustration and anger) often is hugely influenced by too much empathy.

I really need help inwardly with my empathy. I really do. Or at least developing a firmer back bone (it surprisingly does kick in at times thankfully, it just isn't always consistent). His financial situation is not my problem. I know that. He's gotten himself to where he is on his own. It is nobody's else's fault but his own. I get all that also. There is no way he should be broke with how much he makes. I'm beyond angry that he can have money for a trip, or $400-500 for going out to eat monthly, or a dog...but doesn't feel that child support is a priority. But now I have the added guilt of picturing his adorable puppy without food or proper vet care. I know it's not my problem but that doesn't mean it still doesn't tug at my heart. Not to mention that my daughter is in love with that puppy and if anything happens to him it would break her heart. So then not my problem becomes my problem.

Great idea about the bank account, kells76. I could very well see my ex talking to my daughter about not having money and her feeling badly and offering to give him some so it's best she not have any in hand.

I had a similar situation to you ForeverDad. When my BPD ex and I first broke up he deposited an empty envelope into our only joint account and withdrew the maximum of $100. I didn't realize until I saw the statement and unfortunately since our bank was a virtual bank they basically told me that I could only pay the $100 and close the account since they didn't keep detailed records on such transactions and there was no proof of him acting criminally. This was shortly after the assault so I didn't have the energy to fight it back then.

My understanding when it comes to the backpay is that the Family Responsibility Office can make him pay all of the back pay owed if I file with them. What is interesting about that is that they can only follow the current court order so they would be including his monthly payments even when he was off on stress leave as he didn't have a lawyer modify the order. So by following that he would owe over $10,000 collectively including current support owed. My lawyer had mentioned previously that his backpay would be a good negotiation tool whenever we do end up back in court. The only reason we haven't gone to court prior to now is because he has no money (he threatens often when he doesn't get his way). He did receive insurance money while on leave but ended up using it to go on a trip so I have no idea how much he received.

If I didn't go through Family Responsibility Office then I would have to go through my lawyer. That would mean paying insane amounts of money to try and get anything out of my ex as he wouldn't be able to afford a lawyer. So if I do anything it would be best to go through FRO. They can take away his license/passport and his vehicle could be impounded if he drives without the license (which he would). They say that jail is a possibility if he refuses to pay but I don't think they enforce that often from what I've read. And if he stopped working because they took away his license, I'm not sure how that would change things.

[worriedStepmom]

The idea is that eventually life gets painful enough that he goes back to work and starts paying you.

My sister's ex spent some time in jail.  She finally paid off a chunk of his back child support.  After that, he started working steadily again - for the first time in years.  He didn't want to go back to jail.  Your ex may or may not respond in the same way.

[StillHopeful73]

Thank you, worriedStepmom. I'm not sure how my ex would react. When he was off due to stress leave he seemed to really enjoy it, especially during the summer. But he DOES NOT do well with anyone trying to force him to do anything. And if there is a way out of not paying, I'm sure he will find a way.

But I've pretty much had it. I'm starting to struggle a bit financially so I've got to do something.