Part 2: Need support and advice

[MidLifCrysis1]

*mod note: this thread was split from a previous discussion. Part 1 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337064.0

Addendum du jour:

So she came home from work. I met her on the porch on her way in, saying "Hi."
She stops and initiates the following discussion:

Wife: "Do you love me?"
Me: "I have always loved you. And I still do."
Wife: "Do YOU love me?"
Me: "Yes."
Wife: "Do you LOVE me?"
Me: "Yes."
*interruption by daughter saying hello and time for dinner - then she leaves*
Me: "Are you going to ask me again?"
Wife: "Do you love me?"
Me: "Why are you asking me that again?"
Wife: "Because you haven't given me a direct answer."
Me: "How have I not given you a direct answer? You asked if I loved you and I said yes."
Wife: "You didn't just yes. You had all this wordy other stuff. Do you even know what a direct answer is?"
Me: "Uhm...Apparently I don't. Maybe..."
Wife: (interrupting) "You just did it again!"
(insert lecture about how a direct answer is an answer that is provided directly [not making this up])
Me: "So, me saying 'Yes' was not directly answering your question?"
Wife: "No. It wasn't."

Someone please tell me what the H3ll that is supposed to be?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Red5]

Someone please tell me what the H3ll that is supposed to be?

There are a myriad of explicative terms,
*emotional reasoning (feelings = facts)
*cognitive disassociation
*projection
*splitting

When pw/bpd are in the “zone”, nothing you say or do will be recognized or processsed...

A catch22, no win is possible...

Say what you feel, what you sincerely mean one time... and then disengage.

I’ve been there, I understand your frustration... there is no way at this point to effect any type of reason,

Say a one time statement... and then go about your buisiness...

“Look, I feel your emotions here, I love you, I always will, I am right here, I’m not going anywhere, you are my life, this is the way it will always be... I want you to understand this, I am your husband, you are my wife, we are married, I expect you to give me as much as I give you... I want to talk more later, I need emotional validation just as much as you do”...

Something like that...

Don’t get caught up in her dysregulation...

Hang in there  MLS1,

Red5

[lotusblossom1]

 

red5's advice is MF spot on.

this is what i try to do. and i'm sorry MidLif. it sounds terrible. and not totally different than my situation.

good luck to you

[once removed]

*interruption by daughter saying hello and time for dinner - then she leaves*
Me: "Are you going to ask me again?"

why circle back to it?

do you think maybe shes looking for a physical gesture or demonstration, rather than "yes or no".

Things have been consistently poor.
I have been terribly despondent for days and days.

are you getting help MLC?

your wifes stress can be an opportunity to support her, and to bond. to do little things, to listen, to validate, and to ask how you can help. these things can build trust, as well as good will.

how is this going?

[MidLifCrysis1]

I greatly appreciate the advice and concern everyone.

Unfortunately, almost nothing is making any useful difference. If I leave-it-alone ever, she doesn't let it go. It will hang around until somebody picks it up and deals with it - which usually involved me getting an extensive earful of how awful I am.

To OR's point, that's 'why circle back to it'. She needs every little detail of things checked off or she can't move on. I knew there was something behind her asking me over and over. Me mentioning it was an attempt of shaking up whatever slide she was moving down. I tried an adjustment to the mood of the moment in hopes she would break stride, but it didn't work.

As for myself, "getting help" is a deceptive way to put it, I think. Am I seeing a therapist? Yes. Is it really helping? No...not really. A little. But there's not much really to do there. I can get more out of speaking with you all than I really get from speaking with my therapist at this point. Before, she was my sole source of sanity-check and validation about myself, but after reading SWoE and participating on this board, I don't think there's much reason to continue counseling sessions at all - except that my wife feels that I need to be fixed and gets mad if I don't go "work on my problems."

Irony...oh irony...how your jests wound my soul...

For this one "your wifes stress can be an opportunity to support her, and to bond. to do little things, to listen, to validate, and to ask how you can help. these things can build trust, as well as good will." --- I can see this effect occur. And it can have a short-lived positive effect when I can actually pull it off. But more often than not, due to the irrationality of the working environment, things I do either don't matter, backfire, or mystifyingly cause harm where there should be none.

It's 0 or 1 (or rarely 2) step(s) forward and, often, 3-5 steps back every...single...day.

The part I feel SO STUPID about is when things become normal for more than a small number of hours, I sometimes get blissfully unguarded (well, not really. More like less guarded) because rational conversations are actually happening/possible. Listening and seeming understanding seems to be occurring. Care seems to be demonstrated. It's like a breath of fresh air after being trapped all day in a sewer. And I KNOW better. But it still gets me sometimes.

It's so hard to stay guarded all the time against the person I've spent my entire life with as a partner and best-friend. And it is soul-crushingly sad and lonely for both of us.

She knows there's this gulf between us now. I won't talk about it - which is a major problem point, but she knows she can't force me. It just makes us both sad and feel like we are just waiting for the cancer to become fatal.

I do not know how to continue.

[Ray2017]

The part I feel SO STUPID about is when things become normal for more than a small number of hours, I sometimes get blissfully unguarded (well, not really. More like less guarded) because rational conversations are actually happening/possible. Listening and seeming understanding seems to be occurring. Care seems to be demonstrated. It's like a breath of fresh air after being trapped all day in a sewer. And I KNOW better. But it still gets me sometimes.


I do not know how to continue.

I'm a newbie here, but I wanted to say how much this particular paragraph resonated with me, especially your analogy about clean air.  For me, hope blossoms so quickly with a smidge of normalcy, and then I go through the crashing disappointment all over again when things heads back downhill.  I feel incredibly naive. 

I'm not at a point to be able to offer any advice because I'm so new to trying the skills discussed on this site, but wanted to add my name to the list of people who have said your situation/feelings are so similar.  I hope you are able to find some peace soon.

[MidLifCrysis1]

Thanks Ray. Feel free to look around. There are a lot of useful info/articles and wonderfully helpful people around here.

And yes, that resonating feeling happens to many of us when we read certain descriptions of events reported by others.

By way of example, your quote encapsulates my experiences very well - and I would wager that 100+ other folks on here have the identical experience:

For me, hope blossoms so quickly with a smidge of normalcy, and then I go through the crashing disappointment all over again when things heads back downhill.

It's like standing in the woods in a thunderstorm at night. But every so often, with a good shot of lightening, you get a glimpse of your spouse standing with you and  - but then it goes dark, cold, and lonely again.

Don't discount the "Notify me of any replies to this thread" buttons. Sometimes it is good to watch the ongoing comments by several different folks on a single topic - or even a single point within a topic - to pick up a lot of valuable insight.

We are all supporting each other with unique, yet very similar kinds of difficulties.

[once removed]

I tried an adjustment to the mood of the moment in hopes she would break stride
...
I sometimes get blissfully unguarded

it sounds like you are by and large on the roller coaster of her emotions - if shes happy youre happy, if shes not happy youre not happy. this is really no way to live, its walking on eggshells, and its damaging to you if not your relationship.

it is easier said than done to begin to shift out of this. but i think it should be a top priority.

Am I seeing a therapist? Yes. Is it really helping? No...not really. A little. But there's not much really to do there. I can get more out of speaking with you all than I really get from speaking with my therapist at this point. Before, she was my sole source of sanity-check and validation about myself, but after reading SWoE and participating on this board, I don't think there's much reason to continue counseling sessions at all - except that my wife feels that I need to be fixed and gets mad if I don't go "work on my problems."

a good therapist isnt there to validate you and take your side. it may be that the therapist senses that thats what you want, or that you arent prepared to go beyond that, it may be that the therapists skills are limited, i dont know. a good therapist will help you get grounded, help you take control of your life, help you think in terms of solutions and what you have control over. i would encourage you to seek that in therapy.

[All_Out_of_Sync]

Hello MidLifCrysis, I think was transported into a BPD twilight zone the last few weeks...just getting caught up on this thread.

As I continue to walk this journey, I am amazed at how similar the stories are that I read on this board. Specifically yours and mine. Shame we can't grab a drink!

This portion speaks to me...

*mod note: this thread was split from a previous discussion. Part 1 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337064.0
Doesn't feel much like we're heading any good direction at all. In fact, she said to me yesterday, "I am powerless to do anything except sit by and watch you destroy our relationship. And I don't even know why, cause you won't tell me."

I heard eerily similar things this week from my uBPDw. It reminded me of something I read, I think it was somewhere in SWoE, that said the pwBPD feels powerless and assigns all the power to the nonBP. That thought has really shown up for me recently. Sorry that has been at play for you too, it can be really painful to experience in the midst of an out of control situation, often caused by the BPD behavior.

As for the, "Do you love me?" exchange, also a similar experience for me. It sounds very much like a "feelings dictating fact" moment. She feels unloved (for whatever reason, actual or perceived) and regardless of what you say, her feeling will remain. I think Red's suggestions are spot on, try to resist the pull of dysregulation. As much as possible, avoid getting sucked into the black hole...

...but speaking from recent personal experience, this is the hardest part!

Last weekend my intention to use SET-UP and avoid JADE'ing went right out the window when I found myself "under fire." The conversation with my uBPDw devolved into nothing helpful and even continued the next morning with her screaming a little more before I could get out the door to work! I don't think I recovered enough to validate a single thing.

I guess the encouragement I'll leave you with is, you are not alone. None of us are perfect, all we can do is work towards personal growth and setting boundaries in healthy ways. Glad you are posting.

Sync