Intro and looking for stories on how children fared if you stayed or left

[Harper(n)]

Hello, I have been married to a uBPD for over 15 years, and we have one child.  There have long been problems in our r/s that I did not understand until I learned about BPD from online research some years ago.  The resources and posts on this site have been very helpful, thank you. 

I do not want to continue this marriage - there is much there to share, but my most pressing question/concern is the effects on our child, so I am starting up front with that.  I am curious about any insights members might be able to relate based on your own experiences.

I realize there are pros and cons to any choice.  Leaving might be trading one set with which I'm familiar for another I don't know about.  I have years of experience with what the effects of staying are: demonstrating a toxic r/s, living on eggshells resulting in hypervigilance, adultification, hypersensitivity, feeling responsible for the uBPD parent's happiness, etc.  (These already exist and I will be seeking out a T to hopefully help our child.)  I also grew up with parents unhappy in their marriage but who did not divorce - more "devil I know". 

I don't know as much what to expect in terms of the effects of leaving on children.  It would provide some time away from uBPD parent which could offer more stability, predictabilitly, and validation. On the other hand, there would be more time alone with uBPD parent (assuming equal parenting time, which I would hope we could work out), when I would not be there to help stabilize.  I anticipate worsening conflict between our child and the uBPD parent heading toward adolescence because of the natural differentiation and distancing that occurs then; I already see inklings of this triggering dysregulation in the uBPD parent.

Ultimately I need to make the decision for me and not for anyone else, even my child, but I am an analytical "I want more info" person and thought there could be some things to consider that I might learn from posting here. 

Sometimes I feel like I am just making this harder than it has to be.  It's nice to find an online community that understands how hard it can feel.  Thank you for reading!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

I understand that you’re contemplating this decision carefully and would like the input of members who’ve been in similar situations.

You might want to take a look at the Parent, Sibling, In-Law board for replies from members who’ve had a parent with BPD. Also check out the Family Law board for information on co-parenting and divorce.

In the meantime, I’m going to relocate your thread to the Bettering board. If you leave, you will still need to work out many issues regarding your child, and you will learn strategies there that will help your communication.

[Notwendy]

I don't think there is one right answer to this. There are pros and cons either way.

One thing to consider is the age of the child. If the child is close to 15- then it isn't long before custody isn't a consideration. If the child is very young, then this is something to consider.

[Kingherc]

Harper
  I don’t have any advice but want to say I am in the same boat as you right now. My uBPDw and I have reached a point that too much damage has been done. I just recently realized that the root of all this may be BPD but it doesn’t change the damage that has been done. I believe I would have left already if it weren’t for my two kids. But even then I agree with you we have to take care of ourselves.

The question you pose is one that I have been asking myself as well. What ultimately is the better option and how will the kids cope. I agree with you that even a home that is stable for 50% of the time is preferable to the current situation. And I truly believe the current situation will never truly change. My biggest fear with my kids is if I stay I am teaching them that this is what marriage is and am setting them up to find someone like my w or treat someone the way my w treats me. Either result is unacceptable.

I am so sorry you are going through all this but know others are out here in the same position. I am eager to see what others people’s experiences are.

[Harper(n)]

I don't think there is one right answer to this. There are pros and cons either way.

True!  And yet, so hard for me to deal with.  I've been looking for "The Right Answer" for so many years...in a dozen years' of journals, in therapy, in books, in meditation, in this site, in the wilds of the internet, in my heart and mind, in the bottom of a wine bottle [infrequently ;-)]...and it just hasn't turned up in any of those places...  *furrows brow and squints in the mirror*

I am working on radically accepting the fact that there is no one right answer, and that it's OK to make a choice based on my feelings and thoughts.  In fact, I've made progress understanding that I have already made a choice, that for all these years staying has been a choice rather than a lack thereof.  And it has been for good reasons, but it hasn't been successful in some important ways, so now it's OK to try a different choice.  More work to do there!

Thanks for your kind words!

[Harper(n)]

Hello Kingherc and thanks for the message, it sure is good to hear from others in the same boat. 

My uBPDw and I have reached a point that too much damage has been done. I just recently realized that the root of all this may be BPD but it doesn’t change the damage that has been done.

Yes, that's a big part of it for me, too.  It's been vastly educational to learn about BPD and understand some of the behaviors better.  However, that knowledge doesn't change the fact that I've lost the love and desire I once had, and that matters more--to both of us--than I've wanted to admit.   

I've spent years feeling guilty and that if only I could find the missing pieces of those again, everything would be ok.  After a lot of research, though, I'm not sure my uBPDh would ever feel I loved him enough, regardless. 

But I digress from my original topic, effects on kids of staying vs going.  One thing that has become more worrisome to me recently (today's issue based on our morning) is the extremely transactional nature of relationships for my h.  He does things for others with the express goal of receiving something in return - usually gratitude and affection, sometimes more tangible things.  If he doesn't get it, he's furious and everyone else is ungrateful and mean.  However, often while he is doing something for our child, he makes it very clear nonverbally that he doesn't want to. This makes our child miserable, and clearly my h is miserable.  And yet, he won't take time to do anything that he enjoys for himself - it's all martyrdom and resentment.  I've been unsuccessful in many different efforts to encourage and support him in taking some time to do things he enjoys himself.  (and by "unsuccessful" I mean flat-out rejected with horror and anger and how could I suggest he be such a terrible person as to refill his own bucket once in a while)

I think this quid pro quo is a very unhealthy r/s with family/friend/spouse.  One pro of separation would be a respite from that for part of the time, and a chance for our child to experience a different dynamic. 

This sounds pretty minor compared to a lot of things I've read on these boards!  There's more and worse, but this is what's on my mind today.   

Wishing you a peaceful day tomorrow!  Your kids are clearly lucky to have such a thoughtful parent.

[Kingherc]

Harper
   It’s not minor. That is a huge part of life and a lesson our kids are learning from us. I see the same reactions from my uBPDw. When our kids cry because I am leaving but don’t show her the same reaction she gets angry and says they are ungrateful.  She plans so many activities for them and if they don’t show her gratitude and affection in the way she wants she gets upset with them. I know they are suffering right now.

I think you are spot on that giving them a refuge even for 50% of the time is better than 100% of what they currently see. I believe it to be true for my boys. Your kids are very lucky too and having atleast one stable caring parent makes a huge difference in their life.

[Panda39]

Hi Harper,

How old is your child? 

I agree there are pros and cons but will admit that I am on the leaving side of the fence.

I'm on these boards because my partner has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and they share 2 daughters.  I also have my own history of being married to an alcoholic and we have a son.

My ex could become verbally abusive when drunk.  I thought I was protecting my son by keeping my husband's worst behaviors directed at me.  But in reality I was protecting no one.  My son was still in the same house when his father was yelling, or passed out, or peeing his pants   There was no normal household, no friends were ever invited over, you can't do that when drunk dad is passed out in front of the TV.  My son's role was to stay under the radar.  He saw an abusive father and co-dependent mother.

When my son was 16 I finally had enough and left. 

My ex lost his house, his wife, majority time with his son, had his 3rd DUI, lost his 401k to pay for attorneys, went to work (a hospital) smelling of alcohol and lost his job.  He hit his rock bottom.

My son and I moved into our own place, and it was peaceful.  But things (I've always believed because he finally felt safe) began to surface in terms of my son.  Depression and anxiety...particularly Social Anxiety.  This was when I realized that yes I protected my son from the worst of the verbal abuse, I made sure he had the things he needed, and he knew I loved him, but he had been affected by what went on in our house.

What was I doing post divorce?  Trying to find me again.  I spent years hiding what was going on by avoiding friendships, socializing, and trying to be invisible.

It's been 10 years since my divorce.  My ex has been sober for over 7 years, my son went to therapy and learned tools to help with his anxiety and depression and right now he's on a self improvement kick with an eye on attracting a girlfriend.  I am happy and back to my authentic self.  My partner and I have just moved in together with all of our kids.

My son has been able to see that his parents can learn, grow, change and make better choices.  Divorcing does not necessarily need to be a bad thing.

I can hear you all thinking but your husband didn't have BPD!  You're right but I did witness my Partner's divorce and have been an outside observer of his family dynamic.

It's a long story involving a 17 year marriage, issues going back to the beginning but things really blew up when his ex's mom died halfway through their marriage.  It sounded like her mom kept the worst of her behaviors in check.  But when she died (the ultimate form of abandonment) his wife went off the deep end. 

The sole focus of the entire family was the uBPDxw, everyone's energy and the family's resources all fed into the ex. 

The divorce was high conflict and took 2 years.

Mom showed herself has incapable of parenting...my partner was able to prove neglect (issues with School, Medical and Dental care) through in the ex's 2 evictions (there would later be a third).  Dad ended up with majority custody...majority responsibility of his daughters and mom became the Disneyland weekend mom 3 weekends a month.  Frankly in terms of the girls they got the best of each parent.  Dad would make sure their needs were met and mom didn't have to do the hard work of parenting.

This arrangement lasted a couple of years.  Mom continued to spiral down...3rd eviction, couch surfing, living in hotels, arrested for fraud (a big bad check).  Then she did some traumatic things to the girls and they voted with their feet and moved in with dad full-time.

He gave them consistency, stability, and love, but he couldn't be their mom.  Damage has been done. D22 is parentified, is a control freak, living with the guilt of going no contact with mom.  D18 has been diagnosed with PTSD due to her mother, she has also been hospitalized twice since the divorce for suicidal comments.  D18 has sleep issues, food issues, and people pleasing issues.  Yes they have been affected by their mother's mental illness no doubt about it. But if they had stayed with mom...stayed staus quo would any of this have been noticed?  Because remember the focus was on mom, there were no resources emotional or financial for anyone else.

Both girls have needed a safe place to land and dad was there for them, and dad has been able to provide so much more for them, therapy, healthcare, and a mentally healthier environment...and love, and fun...

Mom was taking everyone in the family down with her when they were together.  Breaking off from her saved the rest of them.  The quality of life has risen for my partner and his daughters while mom has just continued to sink.

Have things been easy no but I firmly believe that things have been much better than if we had stayed.  (and we would have not found each other...we are celebrating our 9th year together  )

Panda39

[Harper(n)]

Oh my, Panda39, thank you for sharing so much of your story, and your family's, with me!  I found it incredibly valuable and I really appreciate your perspective. 

Hi Harper,

How old is your child? 

12

Yes they have been affected by their mother's mental illness no doubt about it. But if they had stayed with mom...stayed staus quo would any of this have been noticed?  Because remember the focus was on mom, there were no resources emotional or financial for anyone else.

Both girls have needed a safe place to land and dad was there for them, and dad has been able to provide so much more for them, therapy, healthcare, and a mentally healthier environment...and love, and fun...

This was a great point for me to read, thanks!  I do worry that there will be issues such as anxiety, people-pleasing, etc., and it really makes sense that they would be more likely to surface in a safe environment,and I'd be more likely to see them there, so would be able to get him appropriate help such as therapy sooner rather than later (or ever).

H

[zachira]

I have been participating on different boards for quite awhile and every situation is different. I am the child of a BPD mother, and when I was growing up fathers almost never got custody of the children. My mother was nice when dad was around most of the time, and did most of her acting out when he was not around. Having dad stay was a stablizing factor, yet my siblings and I were never truly safe from mom's bad behaviors, and growing up in a household with a BPD mother has had lifelong negative effects.
Leaving has both positive and negative effects. On one hand, the child is safe when they are with the non BPD parent, yet the child does not have the other parent around when the BPD is acting out. Your child is old enough to participate in the custody proceedings, and could possibly choose who to live with depending on the laws, standard legal procedures where you file, your lawyer, among other factors.

[GaGrl]

My husband's ex is a quick pro quo/transactional , uNPD/BPD. In DH's case, what she first wanted was to legally come the U.S. Her currency is beauty and sex. The infidelities that started 18 months into the marriage were constant and blatant. She did not shield the children from her behavior, especially when DH was deployed or posted elsewhere and coming home only on weekends.

Effect on the children? Poor marriage choices. My adult step-daughter recognizes this and says, " I've chosen male versions of my mother, twice. "