Weekly Agitation /Daughter in the Crosshairs

[Depression = 72% of members]

My wife tends to rage or become severely agitated nearly every Sunday before church, if it isn't a full on rage attack, it's just severe and uncomfortable to be around agitation.

This Sunday was another rage. It started with her attacking our daughter and then turned to me once I intervened.

I do as much as I can to take stress off her on the weekend while still trying to maintain some normal functionality around the home for myself. In particular Sunday mornings, I get up and get breakfast ready for our daughter, I give her a bath, pack her snacks for church and offer to dress her so that all my wife has to do is get herself ready, pick out the clothes for our daughter (which she insist on doing) and do our daughter's hair (comb it and put a hair tie in it) I also care for all the animals in the morning. For some reason my wife will always find a reason to be late, and imply that she "does everything, which doesn't allow her to get ready on time" and then she becomes angry and agitated. In reality she simply waits to the last minute to get ready and then feels rushed, stressed and that turns into agitation and sometimes rage. This past Sunday, it turned to rage. Our daughter, who is 3 and pushing boundaries, had slammed the doors in the house a few times, going in and out of them, we'd corrected her and the next time she shut a door, she didn't slam it, the door is just noisy as it shuts and my wife takes off into the room, opens the door slams it behind her and starts screaming at our daughter about how defiant she is. She'd already threatened to cut our daughters hair off because she wouldn't be still while she was trying to do her hair earlier. The attacks and threats were just building up. I intervened, and told her that she didn't need to act that way or say those things, I remained calm, and spoke softly (which garnered a quip about me speaking like a 2 year old little girl) and I asked her to leave the room. My wife went into the kitchen, knocked the trash can into the floor sending trash everywhere, begins cussing me out, accusing me of sleeping with another woman, saying hurtful things about my family members, telling me I'm not a man and generally attacking my manhood. I asked my daughter if she wanted to go to church, she did, so I picked her up and carried her out of the house, with my wife still cussing at us both now, telling my daughter "yeah you better hold on to your daddy".

We went to church, I ignored all the verbal attacks, because it's just a reflection of her and not me. My daughter seemed fine, but it's really beginning to worry me. I spoke to her about it, and she just said she didn't like the yelling. I told her that her mom just didn't feel good, and that she shouldn't yell at her like that. I reinforced what a good little girl she is and how much we love her. I've been down the road already for years, the devaluation, the build up, tear down, repeat, that's what my wife does in these close relationships, that's what she's always done to me and is now doing to her and it terrifies me for our daughter. I know how it's played with my mind over the years, affected our relationship and my relationship with other people. I don't want that for our daughter.

We came home to a book of mine thrown in the yard, my bathroom overnight bag thrown across the bathroom and emptied, trash still in the floor (why does she always seek to destroy my personal items? Anyone else get this?) and her locked in the bedroom. She later came out and while still angry, proceeded through the day like nothing had happened. Just before bed she said "I'm sorry I'm a horrible mother". That's all that was said.

Today she called me and said that she thinks our daughter would be better off is she wasn't in her life, the cycle again, we've had this conversation many times, it used to be about me, now it's about our daughter. I told her that she is wonderful in so many ways, and that she does so many good things for our daughter, and that our daughter needs her in her life, and all that's very true, and then I told her that she has to learn how to control her anger, that the anger is the problem, not her personally, but her ability to regulate her anger has to change somehow. It goes from 0 to 10 in a second. I know that I'm going to have to teach my daughter skills to deal with this, it's not going away, I just hope that I can do that, and that in doing so she doesn't succumb to the wrath of her mother and take off in directions that lead to negative life changing choices.

What a long road it's been and what a long road ahead.

[The Wind]

My wife tends to rage or become severely agitated nearly every Sunday before church, if it isn't a full on rage attack, it's just severe and uncomfortable to be around agitation.

This Sunday was another rage. It started with her attacking our daughter and then turned to me once I intervened.

I do as much as I can to take stress off her on the weekend while still trying to maintain some normal functionality around the home for myself. In particular Sunday mornings, I get up and get breakfast ready for our daughter, I give her a bath, pack her snacks for church and offer to dress her so that all my wife has to do is get herself ready, pick out the clothes for our daughter (which she insist on doing) and do our daughter's hair (comb it and put a hair tie in it) I also care for all the animals in the morning. For some reason my wife will always find a reason to be late, and imply that she "does everything, which doesn't allow her to get ready on time" and then she becomes angry and agitated. In reality she simply waits to the last minute to get ready and then feels rushed, stressed and that turns into agitation and sometimes rage. This past Sunday, it turned to rage. Our daughter, who is 3 and pushing boundaries, had slammed the doors in the house a few times, going in and out of them, we'd corrected her and the next time she shut a door, she didn't slam it, the door is just noisy as it shuts and my wife takes off into the room, opens the door slams it behind her and starts screaming at our daughter about how defiant she is. She'd already threatened to cut our daughters hair off because she wouldn't be still while she was trying to do her hair earlier. The attacks and threats were just building up. I intervened, and told her that she didn't need to act that way or say those things, I remained calm, and spoke softly (which garnered a quip about me speaking like a 2 year old little girl) and I asked her to leave the room. My wife went into the kitchen, knocked the trash can into the floor sending trash everywhere, begins cussing me out, accusing me of sleeping with another woman, saying hurtful things about my family members, telling me I'm not a man and generally attacking my manhood. I asked my daughter if she wanted to go to church, she did, so I picked her up and carried her out of the house, with my wife still cussing at us both now, telling my daughter "yeah you better hold on to your daddy".

We went to church, I ignored all the verbal attacks, because it's just a reflection of her and not me. My daughter seemed fine, but it's really beginning to worry me. I spoke to her about it, and she just said she didn't like the yelling. I told her that her mom just didn't feel good, and that she shouldn't yell at her like that. I reinforced what a good little girl she is and how much we love her. I've been down the road already for years, the devaluation, the build up, tear down, repeat, that's what my wife does in these close relationships, that's what she's always done to me and is now doing to her and it terrifies me for our daughter. I know how it's played with my mind over the years, affected our relationship and my relationship with other people. I don't want that for our daughter.

We came home to a book of mine thrown in the yard, my bathroom overnight bag thrown across the bathroom and emptied, trash still in the floor (why does she always seek to destroy my personal items? Anyone else get this?) and her locked in the bedroom. She later came out and while still angry, proceeded through the day like nothing had happened. Just before bed she said "I'm sorry I'm a horrible mother". That's all that was said.

Today she called me and said that she thinks our daughter would be better off is she wasn't in her life, the cycle again, we've had this conversation many times, it used to be about me, now it's about our daughter. I told her that she is wonderful in so many ways, and that she does so many good things for our daughter, and that our daughter needs her in her life, and all that's very true, and then I told her that she has to learn how to control her anger, that the anger is the problem, not her personally, but her ability to regulate her anger has to change somehow. It goes from 0 to 10 in a second. I know that I'm going to have to teach my daughter skills to deal with this, it's not going away, I just hope that I can do that, and that in doing so she doesn't succumb to the wrath of her mother and take off in directions that lead to negative life changing choices.

What a long road it's been and what a long road ahead.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Inner Light]

I'm newish to this site and I hope I reply according to guidelines...

I think the stress is more so for them on holidays and weekends; less structure, having to conform to scheduled, group activities and balance other's needs. Sometimes it's easier for all to take separate cars.

It seems the weekend for my partner as he wishes it is a day to rest and relax as the whim hits him, not to do housework or be on time to things, or have parenting duties but to have us in his orbit as company if he opts for it.

Structure helps people with BPD the most and yet they rebel against structure.

You're a good father and partner giving them both encouragement.

I'm glad you have a place to share about these little moments of acting out because it's upsetting and distressing witnessing a person you love act out and you need to vent. In my opinion, don't tolerate verbal attacks set a boundary by turning off the phone or something. I always say they can't yell at you if you're not standing there anymore.

She gets triggered by being late and rushing I guess. Maybe try changing the clocks in the house twelve minutes later!

[No-One]

Hi The Wind:
I like Inner Light's suggestion to take two vehicles.  Is it possible that she doesn't really want to go to church?  Maybe a later service would be easier?  Which one of you is more devout in your faith? 

Everyone in church is a sinner, but I'm always baffled by how people with BPD can treat family members the way they do and then show up at church over and over again without even trying to work on their anger issues.  My sister spends a lot of time at church, but can't walk the talk. (currently no contact)

My father had a few BPD traits.  In his later years, I came to understand that he had problems with anxiety and depression.  Like your wife, he was always late getting ready to go somewhere.  Many times, I figured out he didn't really want to go, so there was procrastination involved with getting ready.  Sometimes, I think some people need the pressure of being late to get their rears in gear. (especially if they are a bit depressed).  People with a bit of ADD can have a problem with time management and get distracted.

Today she called me and said that she thinks our daughter would be better off is she wasn't in her life, the cycle again, we've had this conversation many times, it used to be about me, now it's about our daughter. I told her that she is wonderful in so many ways, and that she does so many good things for our daughter, and that our daughter needs her in her life, and all that's very true, and then I told her that she has to learn how to control her anger, that the anger is the problem, not her personally, but her ability to regulate her anger has to change somehow.

Have you talked about her getting some counseling for anger management?  If she is not open to that, perhaps some books on DBD strategies.  Basically, she need to find healthy ways to work on "distress tolerance" and "ways to improve the moment".  Instead of destroying your personal things, perhaps she can learn to hit a punching bag, go for a run or fast walk, workout at the gym, etc.

[The Wind]

She does want to go to church, and 9 out of 10 times, when she gets there, even if it was screaming and kicking about something she was upset about in the process of getting there, she comes away calm and relaxed and loves her time there, so I don't think it's about going to church itself.

She has made comments that she thinks that I don't want her to go to church with us, and that began after she began working a weekend only job, where she was off all week and only worked Saturday and Sunday, so she didn't get to attend church with us anymore. She missed going. During that time I attended the 1st service with our daughter, because I like to get up in the morning and get going, and it gave us more time to go do something after church, like lunch by the river, or more play time at home in the yard. My wife doesn't like the 1st service, because she likes to sleep in as long as possible, so when she switched jobs again, and got her weekends free to go to church with us, after a discussion about which service, I agreed to attend the 2nd service so that it would be more favorable for her, and that's what we've done, with no complaint from me, and it's the last service of the day, so we can't attend any later. I've always tried to meet her where she's comfortable as best as I can. Before the weekend work and the accusations about me not wanting her to go to church with us, she still had these meltdowns trying to get ready and waiting to the last minute to get things done. I've made it very clear that I want her to go to church with us as well, on multiple occasions, I think it's the best case scenario for us all to attend church together.

As for anger management? We've had discussions upon discussions. She's promised to do therapy, and has at times and others times not. She's had some ups and downs with that. She currently knows a therapist that she loves, and who has helped her thinking a great deal, but she doesn't see her anymore. In her defense, she does have a lot going on, she's working and going to school at the same time. She's very high functioning in many ways, extremely smart and does incredibly well in school, but tends to over extend herself and struggles with interpersonal relationships, especially those that are in some sort of authority over her. Her anger tends toward authority figures, and ironically those who are closest to her and do the most for her. Her mom and myself catch it the most, but now it's also moving toward our daughter when she rebels, or does something that my wife thinks is out of character for what she should be doing. She's gone as far as telling her that she may be a sociopath! Our three year old! That kind of stuff really bothers me, because negative thinking in an individual or even negative judgements by others that are unwarranted can be so powerful on a person's self image, especially a child. She's not only negative with her, she also shows her much love, but those swings can be so confusing for anyone. I really want to help my daughter navigate that, I've learned a lot, and I'm still learning a lot about this kind of behavior but I need to be able to shield her from those unwarranted and irrational attacks. As much as I want my wife to change her behavior, I'm not hopeless, but I'm also not hopeful anymore that she will change, I'm somewhere in the middle, and trying to figure out what's the best strategy to keep us all together but also keep our daughter safe emotionally from her mom's mood swings.

The anger will manifest in the forms of verbal attacks, emotional abuse, destruction of property and in my experience with her it will eventually lead to physical abuse as well. I've suggested all of those things to help her deal with the anger in the moment, different ideas to get the energy out, but she's unwilling to go in that direction, she has to "get you" and that's all that matters to her in the moment. She's very vindictive and even admits to that. I say she's unwilling, as opposed to incapable because I've seen her control her anger so many times. I've seen her raging at me, get a call from work that she has to take, be completely calm and rational on the phone, then get off the phone an go back to "uncontrollable" rage towards me. I put uncontrollable in quotes, because that's what she'll later claim after she calms down and is seeking forgiveness. This last time, she never apologized for any of the things she did or said, she just moved on with her day. It can be very demoralizing. She's been better since for the most part. That shows to me that she recognizes that she was wrong in the way she handled how she felt, and she's trying to keep things in check, but until she really invest the time and learns to cope better with the emotions that she's feeling, they'll bubble over again, and hurt people again, which only hurts her in the grand scheme.

I think I will buy the punching bag though, we've talked about it many times, I used to have one myself, get it in the house and see if she'll use it. I've lost to many things over the years to her behavior, even a laptop. I can vouch for the Defender Otterbox for an iphone though! My phone, and her phone (from her throwing her own phone) have survived so much abuse it's amazing, she through mine out of the house and way into the street once, and the phone was totally fine. It's been thrown into walls, the floor, you name it, and survived. So if you're looking for a good phone case?  

[worriedStepmom]

I spoke to her about it, and she just said she didn't like the yelling. I told her that her mom just didn't feel good, and that she shouldn't yell at her like that. I reinforced what a good little girl she is and how much we love her.

I'd caution you on making excuses for your wife and telling your daughter what your wife feels.  That can be very confusing for a small child.  She may be learning that it's okay to yell at someone when you don't feel well.  Or that it's okay for people who love you to yell at you.

Have you had a lot of practice with validation?  My SD12 has a mom with uBPD.  For us a conversation like this, even when she was little, might go something like ...

SD: I didn't like the yelling.
Me: How did the yelling make you feel?
SD:  Scared / angry / my tummy hurt / etc
Me:  I might have been scared/angry whatever too.  That must not have felt very good at all.  <hugs>
...follow up on any specific emotions, then
Me:  It wasn't YOUR fault that Mommy was yelling.  It's not nice to yell at someone, and we should all try not to do that.
Me: I love you lots, and if you get scared / angry / have a hurt tummy, you can always tell me.  I have lots of hugs just waiting for you.

Focus on the child's feelings, make sure she know it isn't her fault and that the behavior was unacceptable (like you did), and make sure she knows you are safe.  It is really mom's responsibility to express her feelings of love, not your responsibility to express those for mom.

[The Wind]

I'd caution you on making excuses for your wife and telling your daughter what your wife feels.  That can be very confusing for a small child.  She may be learning that it's okay to yell at someone when you don't feel well.  Or that it's okay for people who love you to yell at you.

Have you had a lot of practice with validation?  My SD12 has a mom with uBPD.  For us a conversation like this, even when she was little, might go something like ...

SD: I didn't like the yelling.
Me: How did the yelling make you feel?
SD:  Scared / angry / my tummy hurt / etc
Me:  I might have been scared/angry whatever too.  That must not have felt very good at all.  <hugs>
...follow up on any specific emotions, then
Me:  It wasn't YOUR fault that Mommy was yelling.  It's not nice to yell at someone, and we should all try not to do that.
Me: I love you lots, and if you get scared / angry / have a hurt tummy, you can always tell me.  I have lots of hugs just waiting for you.

Focus on the child's feelings, make sure she know it isn't her fault and that the behavior was unacceptable (like you did), and make sure she knows you are safe.  It is really mom's responsibility to express her feelings of love, not your responsibility to express those for mom.

I haven't had enough practice with validation to feel like I'm responding in a way that is consistently validating and hearing all that needs to be validated, but it's something I'm working on now and finding some success with.

That all sounds like very good advice, and I really appreciate it and the example of the conversation that you posted. I will certainly approach her in this way the next time something like this happens. That all makes a lot of sense to me and gives me some good guidance in how I should respond, as well as addressing some things that I shouldn't say. Thank you!