Suicide threats are back

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

The past few months have been okay. My wife (now diagnosed, btw) has been relatively stable. She's not accepting that the relationship is over, and she's cried a lot, but nothing's been destroyed and there haven't been any rages (that I'm aware of.)

I got my own apartment last week, and that seems to have triggered her. I suppose that makes things more real, and harder for her to deny what is happening. Yesterday I got ~20 emails (the relevant parts are below) from her in the span of a couple of hours, with many of them making pretty clear threats about killing herself if we are not together. In the past, I would've told her that of course I'll try, and of course we'll be okay. But I'm not trying to salvage our marriage now. I am trying to end it. I do think I could make the marriage work for her if I put in the effort and she continues treatment. I don't think in the best case scenario it is a marriage that works for me.

Anyway, I don't really know how to respond. I'm supposed to see her tonight. Living with this kind of threat is one of the main things that drove me away. But it's also about the only thing that makes me feel any pull to go back and try again. I'm not doing that, and I'm certainly not doing that under threat of suicide, but I definitely feel the pull. Rationally, I know that the "choice" she is presenting is not a choice I'm making. I'm not making a choice to kill her. I know that. But still...I just hate this.

It also has a much different feel. The emails aren't as frantic. I did talk to her on the phone last night and she wasn't frantic. It was very matter-of-fact. This is what I've decided to do, and I just wanted you to know that. She claims to have a plan, and is planning to stop taking medication so she will have the "nerve" to do it. She claims she has told her T this. I doubt that. I have left a message with the T's office, but I don't have her direct number or email. I'm going to keep trying to contact her. I guess if it escalates I'll call the police again, but it doesn't really feel any easier the second time around. And I suspect that if she actually does something, she's not going to make a big show for me like she did last time. She sounds more serious (or "resolved", to use her word) than she was before.

I so hate this...I have ideas on what to do, but I don't know what to say to her. What she wants is hope for us, and I can't give her that. I obviously care very much about her, but I don't know how to be supportive when I'm not going to tell her the things she wants to hear.

i am not relenting. i am not changing my mind. we have to be working on us. and yes i am about to run out of steam. this has ripped me apart.  i need for us to be okay SC. i need for us to be okay.

Come over. let's eat. talk. make a plan. i need for us to be okay SC. i need for us to be okay. it is the only thing that matters.

or we can talk about the worst case scenario. i'd like the peace of knowing you know my wishes and will honor them. and i'd like for the dogs to not be stuck for days and days waiting for someone to come.

it hurts to feel like you'd rather me be dead than give us another chance. i hope that isn't true. i really hope that isn't true. i can't even begin to tell you what that does to me.

i need for us to be okay. that is the only thing that matters. i need for us to be okay. i have done really well with all of this for the past while. i have. and i can be patient and go at whatever pace. i can be the long distance runner. i love you and will do anything. but we have to be okay. i hope you understand that and will work together with me to make things right. to try. you can try. you absolutely can try for me. you can do that. i am worth that. we are worth that. my heart is worth that. my heart is worth that. i am worth that. we are worth that. you can try. say you will try.

i have to believe that you know that i am running out of steam and that i need us to be okay. and i need you to try. and that i won't be in this world if you don't.

i'm not trying to upset you or make you feel bad. i'm just being honest about the choices. and maybe you would rather me be dead than give us a chance. that sucks and cuts me to the core.

but it is really simple. i need for us to be okay. i need for you to come home. i need for us to be okay. i love you so very much. i hope you will try for me, for us. i hope i am worth that to you.

if you aren't going to try, if i don't matter enough to just try then there really isn't any reason for me to hang on and breathe.  i hope you will decide to try.

[stolencrumbs]

The past few months have been okay. My wife (now diagnosed, btw) has been relatively stable. She's not accepting that the relationship is over, and she's cried a lot, but nothing's been destroyed and there haven't been any rages (that I'm aware of.)

I got my own apartment last week, and that seems to have triggered her. I suppose that makes things more real, and harder for her to deny what is happening. Yesterday I got ~20 emails (the relevant parts are below) from her in the span of a couple of hours, with many of them making pretty clear threats about killing herself if we are not together. In the past, I would've told her that of course I'll try, and of course we'll be okay. But I'm not trying to salvage our marriage now. I am trying to end it. I do think I could make the marriage work for her if I put in the effort and she continues treatment. I don't think in the best case scenario it is a marriage that works for me.

Anyway, I don't really know how to respond. I'm supposed to see her tonight. Living with this kind of threat is one of the main things that drove me away. But it's also about the only thing that makes me feel any pull to go back and try again. I'm not doing that, and I'm certainly not doing that under threat of suicide, but I definitely feel the pull. Rationally, I know that the "choice" she is presenting is not a choice I'm making. I'm not making a choice to kill her. I know that. But still...I just hate this.

It also has a much different feel. The emails aren't as frantic. I did talk to her on the phone last night and she wasn't frantic. It was very matter-of-fact. This is what I've decided to do, and I just wanted you to know that. She claims to have a plan, and is planning to stop taking medication so she will have the "nerve" to do it. She claims she has told her T this. I doubt that. I have left a message with the T's office, but I don't have her direct number or email. I'm going to keep trying to contact her. I guess if it escalates I'll call the police again, but it doesn't really feel any easier the second time around. And I suspect that if she actually does something, she's not going to make a big show for me like she did last time. She sounds more serious (or "resolved", to use her word) than she was before.

I so hate this...I have ideas on what to do, but I don't know what to say to her. What she wants is hope for us, and I can't give her that. I obviously care very much about her, but I don't know how to be supportive when I'm not going to tell her the things she wants to hear.

i am not relenting. i am not changing my mind. we have to be working on us. and yes i am about to run out of steam. this has ripped me apart.  i need for us to be okay SC. i need for us to be okay.

Come over. let's eat. talk. make a plan. i need for us to be okay SC. i need for us to be okay. it is the only thing that matters.

or we can talk about the worst case scenario. i'd like the peace of knowing you know my wishes and will honor them. and i'd like for the dogs to not be stuck for days and days waiting for someone to come.

it hurts to feel like you'd rather me be dead than give us another chance. i hope that isn't true. i really hope that isn't true. i can't even begin to tell you what that does to me.

i need for us to be okay. that is the only thing that matters. i need for us to be okay. i have done really well with all of this for the past while. i have. and i can be patient and go at whatever pace. i can be the long distance runner. i love you and will do anything. but we have to be okay. i hope you understand that and will work together with me to make things right. to try. you can try. you absolutely can try for me. you can do that. i am worth that. we are worth that. my heart is worth that. my heart is worth that. i am worth that. we are worth that. you can try. say you will try.

i have to believe that you know that i am running out of steam and that i need us to be okay. and i need you to try. and that i won't be in this world if you don't.

i'm not trying to upset you or make you feel bad. i'm just being honest about the choices. and maybe you would rather me be dead than give us a chance. that sucks and cuts me to the core.

but it is really simple. i need for us to be okay. i need for you to come home. i need for us to be okay. i love you so very much. i hope you will try for me, for us. i hope i am worth that to you.

if you aren't going to try, if i don't matter enough to just try then there really isn't any reason for me to hang on and breathe.  i hope you will decide to try.

[I Am Redeemed]

I'm so sorry, SC. Does the T's office have a crisis number to call? Definitely keep trying to reach her/him. Also, you might want to consider trying to call the psychiatric hospital where she was taken after her last attempt. There is also the national suicide prevention hotline that you can call or do an online chat to get support with dealing with a loved one with SI. The link for that is https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/help-someone-else/.

Did she tell you what her plan is for doing it? Is there any way you can remove alcohol, weapons, or prescription drugs from the home?

I would call the hotline before you go see her tonight and keep trying to call her T or the psych hospital for guidance.

[Cat Familiar]

Ugh! So sorry that she's threatening again, now that you have your own apartment.   

She seems to think of the two of you as a unit: "I need for us to be okay." It's like she doesn't differentiate that you are a separate person.

And the "you'd rather me be dead than give us another chance" is terribly manipulative.

Whether or not these threats are serious, you are taking them to be, and that's important. Have you asked her more about her plan, other than stopping her meds?

And are you going over to the house tonight? I'm concerned for your safety. Is there a neutral place you can meet? Can someone accompany you? I remember she didn't like leaving the house.

As Redeemed has mentioned, is the house clear of weapons, drugs and alcohol?

[formflier]

When you get in touch with the T I would specifically ask how you should report this kind of stuff in the future.

I'm so sorry this is back.  Hang in there!

Best,

FF

[Skip]

My wife sent me pictures of her cut wrists and the rug on fire. Called 911 and went over there. Lots of stuff broken. Holes in walls. An empty bottle of champagne. Ativan bottle. Razors on the burnt rug. Her wrists were bloody and she’d smeared blood all over her face. Dogs are fine. House is fine. Police were very nice. Because she had injuries, EMS came. So she got an ambulance ride to the hospital. Haven’t spoken with anyone yet. As most of you know, this is something I had massive reservations about. My wife laid on the guilt right before she left. Told me she just needed me to come over and be with her. And that I’d just killed her because next time she’d use a gun. Anyway, that’s my night so far. Hoping for the best, whatever that means at this point.

What a difficult situation for the two of you. I'm so sorry that there is this level of pain in the home.

I understand that you are committed to leave the relationship for your own well being and you still, of course, care for her and don't want harm to come to her. I speculate from what I have read is that she is serious about what she is saying. When you read stories of people with BPD killing themselves, it is often over failed relationships. It's also true that when you read stories of people with BPD hitting rock bottom and then recovering their life, it can be about failed relationships (or crime, or injury).

It might help to visualize this whole thing as her being in the denial and bargaining stage of grief (denial, bargaining, depression, acceptance).

I have some thoughts to toss out for the group to discuss with you. Maybe you can find something that will work. Most of my ideas are about systematically weaning her off of you with time.

Idea: Become a client of her therapist and ask for advice on how to humanely and safely exit the relationship and also give yourself care. Don't tell her of course. This puts the therapists in a very insightful position. Idea: Ask for a timeout. Tell her the intensity of all of this is too much for both of you. Ask for 6 weeks and set up a place to get together for lunch to talk on a Saturday afternoon. Promise you won't see other people or whatever other thing bothers her. Let time chill this out. Idea: Get her family/friends involved in supporting her and ask her to call then when she feels anxious or upset. Tell her yo need space, but that you will communicate with her by email as long as the discussions are light and friendly and not about the relationship of suicide; 3-4 a week. Talk to her as friend.

She's clearly ill. She could crash or she could even do serious damage in her extreme efforts to be heard. She doesn't have coping skills. That's one reason you are leaving.

She has to grieve and that takes time. She has to find someone else to lean on to get through this. She has to survive her fear of abandonment which makes this 1000x more painful.

At the same time, there is a fine line for you to "release with grace" but not drag this out or enable her poor coping skills. That's hard because she knows you well.

I will pray for both families - yours and hers - that you come out the other side of this as stronger more loving people. Try not to let this scar you.

Anyway, food for thought.

[Skip]

I would specifically ask how you should report this kind of stuff in the future.

FF gives great advice. I am going to respectfully  this one.

If you trip the therapists boundaries for HIPPA or his ethics, he will shut down. I suggested becoming a client/patient with you volunteering that you are not asking him to be a conduit into her thinking or deliver messages... you want general advice on how to handle this situation from someone experienced in BPD. Tell him you are aware of HIPPA and don't want to violate her privacy in any way.

Her therapists can be a resource, but you have to play it straight.

[stolencrumbs]

Thanks for the replies. Definitely lots of food for thought, Skip.

I did go over and talk with her last night. She essentially told me in person the same things she had told me in email and on the phone. She has decided to kill herself if we are not together, and she needs me to try to work on our relationship and to give her hope for us. Without that, she's going to end her life. I guess I mainly listened and stalled, and left it all at "please give me time to think about all of this." I don't know if that was the right thing to do or not. I don't want to give her hope that isn't there, but, obviously, I also don't want her to die. So I didn't really say much.  

She did at one point start covering things she thought I needed to know about if she died. She told me when the dogs take heart worm medicine, when their next annual checkups are, and which emergency vet she thinks I should use if they ever need to go. She told me she is still thinking about what she wants to happen if the suicide is unsuccessful and she is in a vegetative state. She told me she wants to be cremated, that she doesn't want any service, and to send her ashes to a friend of hers who will "know what to do with them." It was a very surreal conversation. She was very calm and very matter-of-fact about it all.

I do think she is serious. It also feels manipulative, but it's not as straightforwardly manipulative as the threats in the past were. I believe what she's telling me.

I think what I've been trying to do is in line with some of the suggestions here, but I'm obviously open to advice on better strategies. We have met with her therapist together a number of times. In the last meeting, her T encouraged me to get my own place and told my wife that that is what I needed right now, and that giving me that space would be the best thing. I've worked with my T on setting appropriate boundaries to "wean" her off. I see my wife twice a week, and we communicate in other ways (email, text, phone) four or five times a week. My T thinks that is probably too much, but I've been okay with it. This was essentially the compromise after I asked for a timeout and to have more limited contact for a while. My wife was not at all okay with this, so we ended up where we are.

The problem is that my wife wants this to be a process that starts with what we're doing now, and gradually increases to spending more time together, and, ultimately, me moving back in. So she was kind of okay with the arrangement for a while, but sees us moving further apart instead of closer together, and she doesn't want that. She is going to fight the "weaning," and she is apparently willing to put her life on making sure that doesn't happen.

I would love to talk with her as a friend. I do care about her a lot. I don't want to not be part of her life right now. But I don't know how to do this when she sees a friendship as a step towards being back together. So she tests it and pushes for more, and then when I maintain only a friendship, she spirals. That seems to be what happens. I don't know how to handle that gracefully. Everything feels like I'm punching her in the gut.

She was talking with her family more, and we had talked about what she would do if she started feeling suicidal. That including calling her T and her parents. But, as she explained to me last night, that was all conditional on us being together. For her, the things we talked about doing if she felt that way are not things she's going to do if we aren't together. I am okay talking to her parents about what is happening now, but I think the impact they will have is limited. She is back to saying they don't care about her, and that she has no family except me.

I definitely feel pulled in two directions--wanting to be kind and caring and supportive, and not wanting to give her false hope or drag this out for a long time. And yes, she knows me very well, and she definitely uses that. I can see that. Doesn't make it easier to navigate.

Still haven't talked with her T.

[Cat Familiar]

How are you doing, SC, after hearing all that?

[stolencrumbs]

How are you doing, SC, after hearing all that?

I'm okay. I guess I feel angry. scared. helpless. I also don't think my real life support system is very good with this kind of thing. Some people just shrug it off and don't think she's serious. Others think I should go ahead and file for divorce, regardless of what she's saying. It just doesn't feel like anybody is particularly supportive of the ways or the pace at which I'm going about this. And I definitely feel the pull to just go back. God, that would be so much easier right now. Just make her feel better. I'd be okay. I'm not going to do that, but I feel that pull. It all sucks. And now I feel like I'm back to calculating everything I do in terms of how it might affect her and whether she will kill herself if I do x. I hate every bit of all of this. I guess I'm still processing all of it, and now I don't feel like I have any time to do that. The clock's ticking. 

[babyducks]

I'm sorry stolen crumbs. Your situation is horribly difficult.  I know it hurts.

I see part of this as the challenge of not getting drawn into the emotional argument.     Not reacting.     And that's hard.

The choice she is presenting you with is a false one.     And you are right.   Just like in the movie the only way to win is to not play the game.

Don't have future of the marriage conversations with out a therapist present.    Hard fast rule.     No variations.   Right now you are too susceptible to her emotions.

Don't try to solve all the problems of the situation in one day.  Break it down into 24 hour increments.  Get through the next 24 hours and don't make far reaching decisions for just today.

[GaGrl]

If you have reached a belief that you can't get through 12-24 hours without checking g to see if she has done harm to herself, it is critical.

Is that where you are?

Do you think you should call the facility she was in as in-patient?

[Cat Familiar]

This is way too much for you, as a non-professional mental health provider to cope with. It's a lot for a psychiatrist to deal with.

That she is talking about final arrangements and needs for the dogs, to me, indicates that she is more serious about this than she was previously.

I would agree with GaGrl that getting in touch with the facility where she was treated, in addition to speaking with her therapist, would be a good course of action.

[GaGrl]

I've been mulling this all afternoon. ..

You are taking on far too much responsibility for her actions -- without having the professional training to make decisions that are, frankly, LIFE OR DEATH.

With her mental decline over the past 48-72 hours, what can you do to have her assessed and possibly into in-patient care again?

Bottom line, she is making specific plans and directives, and that is a giant red flag.

[I Am Redeemed]

Have you tried contacting your own T?

[Red5]

I’d “call this one in” stolencrumbs, the others are correct, if she is going down her departure checklist, this a big red flag.

What does her family know,think,or say about this latest turn?

I spoke with my own “T” about this very subject a few weeks back, I related that in years past... while I was in the Marine Corps, we often had training on how to recognize and perhaps prevent suicides among the Marines in our charges, there were all kinds of acronyms to help us remember what to do if one of our fellow Marines started presenting ideations...

“T” told me, and this did shock me a bit, he said that nowadays, clinicians no longer use the prevention rail, instead the rail is to “respect the wishes” of the person, and offer support, ie’ a therapist, or social worker will ask... “so how and when do you plan to to accomplish your wish?”.

Wow : (

That did shock me, I guess times have changed?

Please take her threat, or what I am hearing here, her perceived wish, her final plans very very seriously.

Is it manipulative behavior...yes it is,

Whether to gain attention or not (manipulation), sometimes the disordered person will actually begin to go through with the attempt, however all the while not 100% sincere in the attempt, but they go too far in the attempt, using this attempt to gain the attention they are seeking, and it’s goes too far and it happens that they are inadvertently successful in the suicide attempt, I went through this with my first wife,

She was almost successful on two separate occasions, years apart... I mean she almost died.

Yes, I think you should make that phone call,

The BLUF here is, if a person wants to end their life, they are going to do it, and they can’t be stopped, they will always find a way if they are that sincere, I also believe that most suicide attempts that are not “successful” ( perhaps bad choice of wording)... that are not successful are last ditch cries for help, they don’t really want to die, but it is very dangerous this type of behavior.

The closer she gets to the point of no return, all the while she is pleading with you to rescue her, and the closer she gets to that point, the more desperate she will become, thus increasing ten fold the danger of her going just that little bit too far, and subsequently crossing over... from which there is no return.

Make that call SC,

You and your wife are in all our prayers tonight,

Red5

[empath]

a therapist, or social worker will ask... “so how and when do you plan to to accomplish your wish?”.

I've had conversations with mental health professionals about it, too. The reason behind the question is to gauge the seriousness of the threat. If a person has a viable plan and some of the details worked out (do they have the means and opportunity to carry out the plan?), they are farther along toward a successful attempt, and the situation is more serious.

SC, some of those in my IRL support system don't quite understand my slow progress either. The ones who are aware of my h's mental health issues and those who understand the local housing market are more understanding of my situation -- so there are a few people that would really understand. It's a lonely place to be.

My thought is that since you have met with her T, you can talk about your concerns about your w's reaction and plans in response to your moving out.

[stolencrumbs]

I've talked with my T briefly. I see her on Monday morning. She is in the same practice as my wife's T, and we have both signed releases so that they can talk to each other. So she is going to let my wife's T know what is going on.

I don't think the psych hospital is going to be a useful resource right now.

Calling the police seems to be about the only option I have. I have not done that.

The newest issue is that her younger sister (mid-30s) is likely going to die soon. Yesterday the doctors gave her a 25% chance of making it out of the hospital. She is an alcoholic and opioid addict with severe cirrhosis. Now her kidneys are not functioning. And her blood is not clotting. There's basically nothing they can do until she is able to clot, except keep giving her blood, platelets, etc. That's been going on for over a day. I haven't gotten an update this morning. It does not look good, and the mid-range prognosis even if she makes it out of this is not good.

I don't think my wife will do anything to herself while her sister is in the hospital possibly dying. She's waiting on the morning update to figure out how quickly she needs to get down there. But if/when her sister dies...man, that's not going to be good.

When it rains, it pours. 

[Red5]

But if/when her sister dies...man, that's not going to be good.

You are correct, this is triggering her, may open another 'pandoros box' of unresolved memories, emotions.

My first wife, her brother passed, she came unglued, then her mother got lung cancer, then her grandmother died, all in about two year period… I couldn't put the pieces back together again, long story.

This may sound bad, but the fact that your wife's sister is not doing well, may 'postpone' things for a while, this buys you time… but be forewarned, if her sister passes suddenly, then things change again in a heartbeat, be ready for that.

This a "closure issue"… not being able to effect closure (I'm speaking to childhood wounds here) drives pw/bpd even further towards dysregulations, and self destructive behaviors, suicidal ideations & attempts certainly being an element of that, my first marriage was fraught with this phenomena.

Keep posting!

Red5

[formflier]

Let's be pragmatic.

She is looking to your relationship for "hope". 

There are lots of things going on between here and now.

What can be done that might "give her hope" yet not commit you to anything.

I would ask your T about this plan.  Schedule a joint therapy session for late September or even October.

Have her doctors/Ts give her stuff to do (focus on) in the meantime and if she asks/wants to do joint therapy earlier..they just say it's not possible/wise.

I'm not suggesting the joint therapy be about "repairing" your relationship but I do think you should show up with your Ts and talk about a suicide prevention plan and potentially "reveal" where the relationship is going.

See the thought about giving her hope for the future to keep her alive for a few more months and let her treatment plan work.

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

Let's be pragmatic.

She is looking to your relationship for "hope". 

There are lots of things going on between here and now.

What can be done that might "give her hope" yet not commit you to anything.

I would ask your T about this plan.  Schedule a joint therapy session for late September or even October.

Have her doctors/Ts give her stuff to do (focus on) in the meantime and if she asks/wants to do joint therapy earlier..they just say it's not possible/wise.

I'm not suggesting the joint therapy be about "repairing" your relationship but I do think you should show up with your Ts and talk about a suicide prevention plan and potentially "reveal" where the relationship is going.

See the thought about giving her hope for the future to keep her alive for a few more months and let her treatment plan work.

Best,

FF

I don’t think there is much hope of her being hopeful with T appointment a month or more away. I like the plan, but I don’t get the sense from her that she is at all looking that far out. Her plan is that we spend time together 4-5 days/nights a week, but that I can still sleep at my apartment. She considers that a compromise on her part. She has already asked to see me tonight, and the expectation is that I’ll come over tomorrow and work in the yard. And now saying “no” feels like telling her to go kill herself.

I agree that T’s need to be involved. Right now I’m just trying to get to that point.

BTW, her sister has improved. Doctor said she has now used 8.9 of her 9 lives.

[formflier]

And...for clarity.

Please discuss this plan with your T.  It's an idea.

Let them decide to proceed or not.  You are letting the T(s) know what you are willing to do to help.

Also ask them specifically what they think you can do to help.

Trying to brainstorm here..

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

How are you stolencrumbs?    How are you feeling?    Have you managed any self care to try and recharge your batteries?    I hope you got away for a little while and did something just for yourself.

You have a lot going on.   a lot of difficult pieces. a lot of stress.  divorce, the end of a marriage, changes in living conditions, coping with your wife's mental illness.   interesting about the diagnosis btw.  how did she respond to the news? and a seriously ill family member.    individually each of those is emotionally draining, together that's crippling. I hope you are eating, sleeping and getting some time out in nature and away from smart phones and emails.   How is your sister in law?

there are a lot of pieces in your post.   I am going to try and pull them apart a little bit.   Not because one is more important than another but because they might be a little tiny bit easier to process individually.

I am sorry that the suicide threats are back.

Her plan is that we spend time together 4-5 days/nights a week, but that I can still sleep at my apartment. She considers that a compromise on her part. She has already asked to see me tonight, and the expectation is that I’ll come over tomorrow and work in the yard. And now saying “no” feels like telling her to go kill herself.

you've been living with the threat of suicide for a long time.     the most emotionally resilient person in the world would be struggling.    did you end up going over?    and did you end up working in the yard?   I am going to suggest that you continue to defend and protect yourself by setting reasonable limits.   those limits might need to change daily while your wife is under the additional stress of a diagnosis, the illness of her sister and the end of her marriage.    If you go over to work in the yard I would suggest you control the narrative.   If you go over to work in the yard and you normally stay for 4 hours... stay for 3.   I am piggy backing off Skips idea of weaning her off her dependence on you.   I am also thinking that falling back into some pattern of her creation... where she controls the narrative of when you come and when you go is just going to exacerbate her down ward spiral.   It has in the past.      when you look at your decision to go over or not, I would suggest you do spend a lot of time looking for ways to control your narrative and not getting trapped into 1) something you don't want to do,  2) something that she feels will "fix" her or make her feel better.

I so hate this...I have ideas on what to do, but I don't know what to say to her. What she wants is hope for us, and I can't give her that. I obviously care very much about her, but I don't know how to be supportive when I'm not going to tell her the things she wants to hear.

this is hateful stuff.    I understand not knowing what to say.   I have trouble stating my truth.   especially when I am in the presence of a lot of strong emotions.  practice with us.     I would suggest stuff like:

• I believe you have value and potential regardless of what happens between us.   I hope you see that too.
• I can't comfortably talk about the future with these suicide threats between us.  it raises the intensity too much for both of us.   
• I care for you and will be supportive when and where I can.   I am not able to think clearly when the conversation turns to you ending your life.    I'm going to discuss this with my T and need you to discuss it with yours.

You know her best.    You would need to determine how hard to push back against her ~reasoning~ and when to take a break and let the emotions chill out.    I know you understand that as a pwBPD she has no emotional governor.     and in a way you will need to act as her emotional limiter or controller around this topic.

what do you think?   is that something you can do?   even in small amounts?   is that something that would be helpful to you?

'ducks

[once removed]

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