A Strange Reaction - Part 2

[Yoke]

*mod note: this thread was split from a previous discussion found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338706.0

Thanx @Cromwell.  How I feel now after i have said what i truly wanted to say to her? I am glad that I did that, because then, I have tried and done everything in my power to show her that I do love her unconditionally. That I am a good person. With a heart.. What makes me sad, is that I fell in love with someone who i thought had good intentions, someone who i thought had the same goal as me... True love. That way she just left me with a textmessage of rage, not explaining what and why.. that is a proof? That she is damaged.. by someone. And that she has such a pain inside herself. Of course, you can be angry and argue in a relationship, but the way she has behaved- that is beyond everything that is "normal". You dont just do that to someone you had an relationship with... That hurts. And that i still dont know what I did that made her leave me for good.. What are the odds meeting an unhealthy woman when you are gay... ironic.. my bad luck hunts me... I wonder if she ever will regret or stop hate me someday? What do you think?...

[Cromwell]

Morning Yoke

I think you have been very strong through all this.

When you ask what I think, I think Disappointment is the word that stands out to me strongly here.

Bitter Disappointment

A feeling of expecting something far different than what has happened?

I also feel this last post it is hard to not notice how calmer you come across after giving her the letter.

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell.  The same day I sent the flowers and delivered the letter i got a textmessage from my ex.  How it was? It was a textmessage full of rage. She wrote to me that she right now just started a new relationship! that i am seriously sick in my head! and need advanced therapy 24/7! That i shouldn't go abroad for holiday but instead go in therapy! That i should leave her and her boyfriend "xxx" alone!
 My first reaction of this was that I was chocked. That any human can respond like this when u have opend your heart to her, your ex, that you love.  Its pure evil. So evil.  And childish..  and that makes me also sad, sad because i really opend my heart, and that i could have loved her so much! Who is she?.. how can she have so much pain and hate inside her? WHOM and WHAT have she experienced in her life before and HOW did someone hurt her so she became this? I dont belive its just me that have hurted her, do you? And i havent hurted her intentionally ever! And i still dont know what i did that made her devaluate me forever?.. i also think, maybe am wrong, but that she somewhere deep inside feel guilt, feel hurt and pain by me, that our relationship ended. And that triggers her.. I reminded her of us. Of the letter and flowers.. And she tries to hide her sorrow/failure with someone new. And so strange to tell his name like i knew who he is. I dont know him.. but i think that she said that for a reasons. that she will hurt me by saying its a MAN and that he is not a Swedish guy...

 I do still love her and miss her. But my heart and mind need to cooperate now.. and try to lock up the memories of her deep inside. She is not function normal, or at least not to me... she still tries to hurt me the best way she can. Why does she want to still hurt me? Wouldnt it be better just ignore me? Why is she still so evil? Why does she wants me to feel pain? Do u think she reacted of what i wrote in the letter? Please respond.

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell.  The same day I sent the flowers and delivered the letter i got a textmessage from my ex.  How it was? It was a textmessage full of rage. She wrote to me that she right now just started a new relationship! that i am seriously sick in my head! and need advanced therapy 24/7! That i shouldn't go abroad for holiday but instead go in therapy! That i should leave her and her boyfriend "xxx" alone!
 My first reaction of this was that I was chocked. That any human can respond like this when u have opend your heart to her, your ex, that you love.  Its pure evil. So evil.  And childish..  and that makes me also sad, sad because i really opend my heart, and that i could have loved her so much! Who is she?.. how can she have so much pain and hate inside her? WHOM and WHAT have she experienced in her life before and HOW did someone hurt her so she became this? I dont belive its just me that have hurted her, do you? And i havent hurted her intentionally ever! And i still dont know what i did that made her devaluate me forever?.. i also think, maybe am wrong, but that she somewhere deep inside feel guilt, feel hurt and pain by me, that our relationship ended. And that triggers her.. I reminded her of us. Of the letter and flowers.. And she tries to hide her sorrow/failure with someone new. And so strange to tell his name like i knew who he is. I dont know him.. but i think that she said that for a reasons. that she will hurt me by saying its a MAN and that he is not a Swedish guy...

 I do still love her and miss her. But my heart and mind need to cooperate now.. and try to lock up the memories of her deep inside. She is not function normal, or at least not to me... she still tries to hurt me the best way she can. Why does she want to still hurt me? Wouldnt it be better just ignore me? Why is she still so evil? Why does she wants me to feel pain? Do u think she reacted of what i wrote in the letter? Please respond.

[Cromwell]

Hey Yoke

I hear you.

Do you think she just says stuff because she might be for example, angry, and not really mean it?

what do you mean when you say you will "try to lock up the memories of her deep inside"?

Yoke, to answer as best as I can:

I dont know why or if she wants to hurt you,

I dont even know if it is her who sent you that text.

Anyone could have used her phone.

You did mention earlier about the mystery text from the mystery person who you believe has caused all this problems in the first place?

Is there any trust left here, Yoke?

[Yoke]

@Cromwell. Thanx for the reply.  What i meant is that i must try to put all my memories i had with her somewhere deep in my heart, close the door and not open it. Am sorry for my English. ! I really don't know  if she is just saying it just because she Is angry and hurt by me? Many many times when she broke up with me, she said after too me, that she said those things in anger, rage because she was hurt by me and did not mean it.. i really dont know? I still doesn't know what made her leave me? She told me that i had really made a fool of myself..but what? So maybe she does not mean everything she said now...

Excerpt " I dont even know if it is her who sent you that text. " .. Anyone could have used her phone. "

How do you mean? That someone else, one of her friends might have sent that to me by using my ex phone? Its not imppssible... But why should someone do it for her?..in what purpose?  But one time,  (i dont remember if i told you? ) when she broke up with me few days, a long message came from " one of her exes"? And he told me how wrong i was about love and engagement, how i loved my ex wrong and other nasty things he accused me for.. and said that now he was glad i was so stupid, because that gave him opportunity to be with my ex . The whole message was so mean and i was devestated reading it... but my ex and me got together again, and then i wanted her to read it.. she did not want too... so i read it loud to her. She started to cry calm.. and said sorry.. why did she not wanted to read it? Was it herself that wrote it?

So ,,about 4 of her friends has sent me stuff on messenger.. to tell me am a bad person. And the one mystic one who sent  the message in the beginning of our relationship

Excerpt : You did mention earlier about the mystery text from the mystery person "..

Honestly, i dont  know WHY she is so angry at me, what i did do wrong, and why she still sends me replies with such rage.. what made her this? If u should seen them you would be shocked!... its impossible to hate someone so much...someone u loved once

If there is any trust left?.. i have never misstrusted her, what she said to me. Because u must trust your partner. If thats what u mean. I have never intentionally tried to hurt her, never cheated on her, never raged at her. Nothing. I just loved her. Defended her in front of my friends that was talking PLEASE READ of her... So why does she feel such rage. Is it now when she has someone new? My therapist said, how do u know she has someone new?... its all crazy this. So please help me understand her @Cromwell, someone else . Thanx

[Cromwell]

Hi Yoke

It is interesting the use of words here.

She called you "foolish"

Then there was a mystery text that you confronted her about, in the text it said you are "stupid"

It is not evidence that it was her who sent the text, but it was worth noting a similar phraseology.

When you confronted her about it, she cried as a response. What happened next, did you get an explanation ever?

You mentioned earlier that these texts are "cowardly".

You went to her door and there was no confrontation verbally.

All of what is going on is - distance. Threats by texts, put-downs by text, texts from friends (triangulation), now she has given a name of a - allegedly - new guy she is with.

The way to get out of craziness is 2 options: find facts or move on and stop trying to solve. My own experience was a mix of both.

Of course I was devastated too, these horrible things that happen and without a proper communication to try and solve them. Then all of a sudden, she changed to being happy with me. This could happen in the space of overnight. The term used is "splitting" when it comes to Borderline Personality Disorder.

Why does it happen? That one moment you can be liked, the next moment hated, for no reasonable apparent reason? No-one knows for certain. Some research believes it is genetic based as far as I have studied.

The situation here is that you did trust her because you believe you "must" trust your partner. I wonder if she took advantage of this, unfortunatly, some people do - regardless of BPD.

Maybe she cried because she felt ashamed, or guilty, and could not feel able to give an answer. Are these texts - true anger - or are they a way to put shame away for something she has done that makes her feel bad about herself. Rather than deal with it, maybe she lacks the ability to deal with it - the only way is to project these feelings on to you instead? "Projection" is a known defence mechanism. It sounds here to me like it could be what is happening.

Of course I am suspicious for a relationship to end and all the person would say is "you are a bad person", and not give any reason at all, to give a chance for you to find some - reasonable - answer that could give you peace.

Maybe she feels guilty because you have been a good partner to her, and if she feels she is a bad person, (many pwBPD feel self-shame) it just became too much to handle. If you tell a young child they cannot have an icecream, but they are too young to understand they have had too much sugar already and you dont want them to get dental cavities - how often does get start a tantrum and a "I hate you!" and thinking you are bad person.

Do you believe them?perhaps the 'truth' is - you are a "bad person" in their mind, for that moment, the emotions have overwhelmed rationality. There is no thinking of grey areas, or middle ground. "good/bad" like a contrast. nothing between.

Yoke, if this is "splitting" what is going on, you might find this useful
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell. When you said this
Excerpt
You went to her door and there was no confrontation verbally.

All of what is going on is - distance. Threats by texts, put-downs by text, texts from friends (triangulation), now she has given a name of a - allegedly - new guy she is with. ".. i have thought about it much. When i left some of her stuff about two weeks ago and she opened the door and saw me... That was a huge opportunity for her to verbally throw her rage on me.. but she just looked at me and looked down, and closed the door.. and everytime she broke up with me, it was verbally through TEXTMESSAGE each time..why?


 Never saying it in front of me.. why? That is strange. Really strange because i have read the Bpd's most often does not have problem to show it to their partner... So why cant she say those things in front of me?
I have never got any explanation when i confronted her with what her friends sent to me. She just said she did not want to hear or see it...

Excerpt
"Of course I am suspicious for a relationship to end and all the person would say is "you are a bad person", and not give any reason at all, to give a chance for you to find some - reasonable - answer that could give you peace. " how do you mean you are suspicious? In what way? All i want is this small thing - just what made her leave our 9 month engagement? When we had it such a good time. I think she might have felt that too.? I dont know.. Right now, all i feel is that she never loved me..just hate me so much.. I wish that she some day... in the future? Just call or text me or whatever.. tell me..  you are right about that she was splitting me   but why have such rage 3 months after the breakup. She did not rage at me when i left her belongings.. but now when i totally opened my heart... it came back. Did i reminded her of us? That she does not want to know that i still love her? Why is that? Even if i had broken up with someone, i would not have such anger, if my ex opened her heart. I would reply something like this" Thanx for what you wrote to me. But I have moved on and seeing somebody else now., and i really want to try with him. so i appreciate if you take count of that. Thanx ./Yoke.. not reply with such awful things. But that is how i work.. Am i totally wrong or do i just think and ask stupid things here that i want to get explained to me.  Some part of me just want to text her in my anger..but i cant do that, because i am not a bad person, i dont want to hurt her or be so evil.. / Yoke. Glad if u respond @Cromwell

[Cromwell]

Hi Yoke,

yes I think the letter is highly important to her sending you a message. Because, she was not talking to you since May.

Can I ask Yoke, did your ex ever talk much about her previous relationships before you got together?

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell.  Yes shetalked about her relationships she had before me. When we were just new in our relationship she texted me this" Why do you think i always date married men? Because they dont leave their wifes. Am afraid of relationships. Not the relationship itself, but to get hurt"... and that she told me in the beginning..! I should have understood her then... She had a 10 year relationship with a man and got a daughter with him. He was professional cyclist and trained 7 days a week. She had to prepare dinner to him, serve him all the time. She left him while they were at the bank signing papers to buy a house together.. cold feets? Then another relationship with a guy that , from her was a great r/s. But he got killed in a caraccident.and she was pregnant and lost her child by grief.. then she had a 1 year r/s with her landlord. After him, just guys she slept with, only. And she had a guy she slept with when she fell in love with me. So she couldnt see him anymore..


Excerpt
 yes I think the letter is highly important to her sending you a message. Because, she was not talking to you since May.
How do you mean here? 
And this u wrote to me " All of what is going on is - distance. Threats by texts, put-downs by text, texts from friends (triangulation), now she has given a name of a - allegedly - new guy she is with.  What do you think of that? That it was in distance.. please do tell your thoughts and ask more of u want. Thanx

[ABC123987]

What I'm going to tell you is likely not what you want to hear.

Yoke, all of what you wrote isn't about her. It is about you. You suffer from an attachment disorder, one that almost certainly originates in early childhood. It is very likely that you are attracted to women who have BPD or similar issues, as a way to recreate the environment you were in when very young to try and 'resolve' and 'win' the love and attachment that you were not given at that very early age. By 4 or 5, if you haven't had good attachment to adults, your brain is already solidifying around the environment you are in, and you will seek out ways to recreate a similar environment with romantic relationships, because that's what 'normal' is to you. You created that situation with your ex, not consciously. The attachment issue can be resolved, but not through your romantic relationships.

I say this, and what follows, because I experienced this repeatedly in my life, and my last relationship I went through 5 years of what you describe. I decided to do therapy to determine why I was repeating these types of relationships, because by that point I came to see that my ex's behaviors weren't related to what I was doing or saying.

You are paying attention to the details of each interaction with your ex, such as her response to your letter, rather than the 'form' of the relationship between you. You opened yourself up in a letter, and her response was rage, anger, and words to the effect that you needed 24/7 psychiatric care. Same happened to me, exactly. You are winding yourself around the details of that, trying to understand the details, parse out the bits of information they may provide, trying to figure out what you did wrong, what you can do right, to get and maintain the attachment you had with her initially, as you did as a child when faced with one or more caretakers who could not provide an emotional attachment with you. Her response is simply one detail among many that sum up to a 'story' of your early environment. One where you did not get what you needed, and now you are in a similar situation, struggling to understand what you need to do to 'fix' it, what you did 'wrong' to make it this way.

Understand this:

It was not your fault then. It is not your fault now.

It wasn't your fault when you were a child that you didn't have the attachment necessary to individuate, to develop, and it is not your fault now. You can do all you want that is nice, self-sacrificing, apologetic, but as you've seen, that doesn't get what you expect back -- it generates responses that leave you more hurt and confused.

As a young child, you were not cognitively aware enough, separate enough, from your caretakers at your developmental stage to realize it was they who had the issue, not you. You blamed yourself for the lack of attachment and lack of connection you experienced as a child, which is why you fell so hard for her -- the beginning with her was idyllic, fast, intense, and you felt seen and heard, the attachment you needed as a child. But within you is the firm belief that you aren't enough, aren't worthy, that comes from childhood, and so instead of creating and enforcing boundaries to her behavior, you took the blame for her behaviors toward you, assuming you were wrong and 'bad', and you relented at every transgression, you gave in to her behaviors, you let her cross your boundaries, you accepted her treatment of you *in order to save the attachment you felt* with her.

That is not wrong of you, or bad of you. It's an attempt to get your needs met. But it won't work. You can't get your needs met with her, but you are still trying, and the hurt you feel is arising from that.

Childhood has passed. We can't go back to that physical and mental stage and re-do it, this time with good emotional attachments. But you can understand what happened to you as a child, experience the rage, anger, hurt and other emotions that were appropriate back then, but which you almost certainly buried and cut yourself off from in order to 'save' yourself back then -- being rejected, not forming attachments during our evolution meant death. We will subvert ourselves in order not to be abandoned by the 'tribe'.

The appropriate emotions you should be having now with your ex, you are cut off from. It would be appropriate to feel anger for how she has behaved, how she has treated you, for the contempt she feels for you now. But for you to be angry means threatening acceptance by the 'tribe', and is 'dangerous'.

Her behavior has nothing to do with you, that's why it makes no sense. You are a foil for the damage she's experienced in her childhood. She is driven by emotions she doesn't understand and that she cannot stand in herself, and since she doesn't understand that these emotions are being generated by her, she looks around to the outside world for an explanation, and you are the one who is right there, closest to her, and therefore it must be you who are to blame for the emotions she is having. That's all it is. But you turn it into hurt and other emotions in yourself because of your attachment issue -- *you* look for a cause for her behaviors, and you automatically blame yourself for her behaviors, because you did as a child.

Let me give you an example that is a template for what happens with her. You have a wonderful, intimate evening, and hours or a day later, she is distancing herself from you, attacking you, and criticizing you. The reason is your closeness has triggered emotions of anxiety and fear in her, and she interprets these as coming from outside of herself, so you must be the cause. It's a small step from there for her to pick something you did or said as the reason, even though it had nothing to do with you.

Imagine a little girl growing up in a house with caretakers who were unemotional, could not show any love, banned any showing of emotion in the home, was repeatedly hit for showing emotion, was repeatedly hit for having feelings towards anyone or anything. As an adult, when she has feelings towards someone, what do you think the following automatic reaction is going to be? The emotions of anxiety and fear will arise, because she is expecting (subconsciously) that physical and mental abuse is coming next. That's what followed her shows of emotion as a child. She almost certainly wants to have close and intimate relationships, but becomes anxious and fearful when she actually becomes close to someone, and then angry because she thinks the other person is to blame for the feelings of anxiety and fear that follow.

I went through the push-pull dynamic so many times with my ex, I eventually saw the pattern. She even told me many times how afraid she was to get too close to me, that even listening to our 'songs' scared her.

It is likely that your ex cutting you off, leaving you, originated from the shame she has from her childhood, from some recognition now that what she's done to you is horrible, and one possible reason she acts as if she has contempt for you is that your presence or image or thought brings up her own shame. Again, she blames someone outside herself for the emotion of shame she has for herself.

So please understand, it's not your fault that she behaves the way she does. But there is nothing you can do about that. You can only delve into your own attachment issues which, from how you're behaving as a result, are almost certainly there. Seek out a good counselor; enter therapy; work on yourself, on resolving your attachment issues. Continuing to mope about your ex and struggling to understand her behavior will only lead to continued pain and hurt, and those are emotions *you* are generating, that have nothing to do with her.

Go watch Gabor Maté youtube talks, and others.


It was not her fault she became this way, but it is her responsibility to do something about it in herself. It was not your fault you became the way you are, but it is your responsibility to do something about it in yourself.

All the best.

[Cromwell]

When we were just new in our relationship she texted me this" Why do you think i always date married men? Because they dont leave their wifes. Am afraid of relationships. Not the relationship itself, but to get hurt"... and that she told me in the beginning..! I should have understood her then...

This fear of abandoment solved by choosing partners that are unable to do so? She chose married men, a safe choice.

I remember you said you were engaged with her - do you feel there is a link here? It became too close?

Dont blame yourself for not fully understanding then, it is always easier to look back now afterwards. You were not married, it started off differently.

[Cromwell]

 yes I think the letter is highly important to her sending you a message. Because, she was not talking to you since May.
How do you mean here? 
And this u wrote to me " All of what is going on is - distance. Threats by texts, put-downs by text, texts from friends (triangulation), now she has given a name of a - allegedly - new guy she is with.  What do you think of that? That it was in distance.. please do tell your thoughts and ask more of u want. Thanx

I think the letter made her have a reaction (the angry text) , because before the letter, there was no contact for months? She never spoke with you - it was quiet.

Distance, I see it as part of pushing you away because the relationship got too close. Pushing away does not always mean "go away forever" even if it feels that way. This is where triangulation comes in - using others.

If you look at the whole situation, the struggle here is that you have been left with all these questions - no real closure, no reason given of what you might have done wrong. In this situation, it is like leaving things open-ended that there is a chance to connect again. There were so many split ups before like in my own relationship. I completely believed many times it was finished, only to get a phone call the next morning. Even when I went no contact for the 'final' time, and it was 9 months I never saw her at all, I saw her on the bus and we talked as if nothing had ever happened, then kept talking for 3 weeks.

My ex told me once "we will be together forever" - this sort of thinking is partly true - in her mind. A relationship never "really" ends, not me, not anyone in her past. There is never true closure but part of that is I believe, there was never any true connection in the first place. It felt like there was, but it is not. I hope you forgive me Yoke, it is very complex for me to either understand let alone explain.

I see just the common-sense part - if there is a fear of being abandoned, just do not attach in the first place.

I hope some of this, makes some sort of sense. I know it is a confusing hurtful time for you now, with so much to try and understand. Also maybe a sort of preparation - just because of all that she has done and said, it does not mean that she might not try and contact you again. Especially as you have been good to her in the relationship. I always say this, because it might be a shock if it does happen.

[Yoke]

@ABC123987 Thanx. You are wrong. Its not about attachement problem i have. I dont try to win or resolve anything here. I have been physically , verbal abused by someone i loved for 9 months. And she left me with a textmessage the day after we had sex. Have u ever been into that? You compare me with your OWN pain and how u feel. How your experience was with your partner... try put it on me. Is that so strange that i just want to know WHAT made her leave me? Must it have to do with ONLY myself here.. no. I dont have a attachement disorder as you say. Based on what? Please do tell me

[Cromwell]

Hi Yoke

I mentioned "Splitting" earlier, it is medically a hallmark of BPD. One moment you are loved more than anyone in the world, the next "garbage"

Does this match how you have been treated, you said words like "the devil", really hated. This would match up if previously you were treated to the opposite extreme.

[Yoke]

@Cromwell. Thanx for the long reply.
Excerpt
think the letter made her have a reaction (the angry text) , because before the letter, there was no contact for months? She never spoke with you - it was quiet. 

Distance, I see it as part of pushing you away because the relationship got too close. Pushing away does not always mean "go away forever" even if it feels that way. This is where triangulation comes in - using others. " Yes i think she did use this triangulation too me. Using her friends towards me..
 You also wrote this : Even when I went no contact for the 'final' time, and it was 9 months I never saw her at all, I saw her on the bus and we talked as if nothing had ever happened, then kept talking for 3 weeks. 
"   It might happen that i will see her in town or something someday.. its a quite big chance for that, because my town is not so big. But she is very good to hide,  she has cut all contact with our common coworkers.. or they , stop talking to her because they felt there was a little bit too much lies and drama around her.. Amd she felt that ...

Excerpt " My ex told me once "we will be together forever" - this sort of thinking is partly true - in her mind. A relationship never "really" ends, not me, not anyone in her past. There is never true closure but part of that is I believe, there was never any true connection in the first place. It felt like there was, but it is not. I hope you forgive me Yoke, it is very complex for me to either understand let alone explain. "  of course i dont mind you write this to me. I want to hear the truth about everything and how "they " think.. I do agree. There is never a closure, not for her too.. Because even if she just have hate towards me now, i think some part of that hate is because of disappointment, shame and sorrow it ended.. maybe i am totally wrong, but some love i felt during the 9 months, and she always wrote to me " just because we have  broke up does not mean the feelings just go away just like that"...  And she is not all evil.. she has also a heart and kind sides. Many kind sides. Its when she feels get hurt the bordelion comes out.. defensemechanism.

Excerpt : hope some of this, makes some sort of sense. I know it is a confusing hurtful time for you now, with so much to try and understand. Also maybe a sort of preparation - just because of all that she has done and said, it does not mean that she might not try and contact you again. Especially as you have been good to her in the relationship. I always say this, because it might be a shock if it does happen."

I will be prepared IF it would happen. I dont think it ever will, but if it does, i know where i am standing then.! How did u feel when your ex contacted you again? Did u feel the same @Cromwell?...

"This fear of abandoment solved by choosing partners that are unable to do so? She chose married men, a safe choice.

I remember you said you were engaged with her - do you feel there is a link here? It became too close?"  Yes we were engaged and she was so happy about it, but everytime she broke up with me, she left the ring on the table. Because she knew how much it hurted me and she wanted me to feel the pain too.. She also told me that she had missed the ring on her finger when we was not seeing eachother... She is not a fool. She is a very smart woman..i do feel that we came too close and the fear of abandonment kicked in @Cromwell. Why? Because the time /periode before  we had such a great time, and we talked about me moving in to her. SHE was the one who asked me to do it... And i think i told you about her ex, the father to her daughter?- wich she abandoned at the bank when they were signing papers for their house... she HAS fear.. that i do belive. Even if she craves for love... the most sad part of all this...

[Cromwell]

Hi Yoke, I have not heard "borderlion" before, it made me smile. It reminds me of a lot of her anger but also cowardice, in a wizard of oz style meaning. My ex was rarely directly aggressive, I wonder if she knew the boundary that I would have used it as justificaiton to leave, or if I was just so good at pandering to her needs that I created an environment there was as little reason to be so. Attacks were of the passive-aggressive doctrine: sarcasm, put downs, jibes, sleights, veiled insults. Pretty cowardly stuff, hurtful all the same, but probably the biggest problem I had in leaving: this lack of directness made me able to brush it off or pretend I did not understand her correctly. It helped make denial more easier than forced to confront.

I will be prepared IF it would happen. I dont think it ever will, but if it does, i know where i am standing then.! How did u feel when your ex contacted you again? Did u feel the same @Cromwell?...

Yes and No, Yoke. 9 months complete no contact, spending time getting my life going in work, a lot of time spent here learning about BPD, I had became more emotional stable. The conversations started to jolt my nervous system, in that "blast from the past" of how happy I was at the start. Yet the difference is, rather than mentally teleporting myself back in time and filter out all that happened since, I merged it all together. On the surface, it was all pleasant, cajoling stuff, more forefront in my mind was this feeling of being a fish swimming circles around a baited hook - anxiety began to get heightened, it took other members here to even identify it as anxiety, I had evaluated it as excitement. The link between the two feelings can easily be misidenitified, both increase heart rate for example. (Remember when you went to her door?)

A relationship of any form, for me, is about harmony. In this case, becoming in harmony to a woman who could change her identity, change her behaviour, change her view of anyone in a flip-of-the switch way. I had to learn this over time as part of the deal, even if I had little idea at all as to what caused it. I had time also to relearn some stuff such as defining what "drama" actually means - to me - not her version. "excitement" too, I "entertainment" so many others.

is worry about being killed in my sleep - "exciting", "drama" or "entertaining". Maybe it was - to her. Maybe she has not tried to broaden her outlook in life, try a west end musical show or something. She might have thrived off this stuff - it made me in comparison: ill.

How about you and the "drama" side of things Yoke? You dont sound too well from it either.

Trying to pretend it was a match, even if in so many ways it was a partial match, for all the sides that brought joy - it still does not change the meaning of the word "partial". Trying in vain to make something fit that simply is not designed to fit.

Yoke, all that it would take is for a change in circumstances, example - she splits her new relationship black, it falls apart, she is then left in freaked out mode, if she has no-one else available. All of a sudden "Yoke" might get instantly transformed from being lucifer to something completely else.

It is Yoke or egg white, but never "egg". 

Do you believe in the "splitting" theory, Yoke? Does it make any of this less confusing. Could you imagine yourself being in that situation? I know I cant. To completely believe that a person is all "good" or all "bad", and nothing else? I mean, not sure about your thoughts but to me - that is pretty "out there" to try and relate to. Do you believe in it, or do you think all the clinicians and researchers are just full of BS? I believe it Yoke, it was painful to do so but it also healed. So I was not loved, I was not hated, I was a new term "split".

I can live with that, I never knew any better, or what was going on. I guess there was always existing something of a thought in me that "this love is too good to be true" as much as the "hatred" was too extreme to be real-world in origin. I did not fully and blindly completely accept the praise as much as I did not accept the criticism. There was a latent "there is something not right about any of this - her view on me is distorted" but not enough knowledge to take action about, and so the relationship just ebbed along like this. A lot of apathy eventually, depressing stuff, this disappointment. Leave? I eventually got so low in mood that I stopped caring. Insults were just noise, drama was just stage-play. Did it ever get a bit - boring Yoke? When it gets repetitive? Did the 5th break up feel the same as the first?

[Yoke]

Hi @Cromwell! So i made u smile with the borderlion? that i heard in the book stop walking on eggshells.. ironic i find it a bit cute.. borderlion.. in all other tragical things
Excerpt " you wrote : Attacks were of the passive-aggressive doctrine: sarcasm, put downs, jibes, sleight.." i am sorry to hear about how she treated her, really. The can be so cruel.. But you came out stronger when she contacted u 9 months after the no contact. I belive that you change as a person after a relationship with a Bpd... were she a treated Bpd? 

I totally agree on how a relationship SHALL Be. Just like u wrote here.
Ecxerpt: relationship of any form, for me, is about harmony. In this case, becoming in harmony to a woman who could change her identity, change her behaviour, change her view of anyone in a flip-of-the switch way. I had to learn this over time as part of the deal, even if I had little idea at all as to what caused it. I had time also to relearn some stuff such as defining what "drama" actually means - to me - not her version. "excitement" too, I "entertainment" so many others. "
It is not how we had it, how we thought it would be from the start, because if we knew that from the beginning, would we have got into it then? I really dont know. If i have known more about Bpd, how they, /my ex think, work, feel... then i maybe would have done it. She was the love of my life @Cromwell.. really. And i am not sure that i will ever try love someone again.. have you tried again? Was it hard? And how long did it take for you to get into a new relationship..? Just answer if u want!

Excerpt: Do you believe in the "splitting" theory, Yoke? Does it make any of this less confusing. Could you imagine yourself being in that situation? I know I cant. To completely believe that a person is all "good" or all "bad", and nothing else? I mean, not sure about your thoughts but to me - that is pretty "out there" to try and relate to. Do you believe in it, or do you think all the clinicians and researchers are just full of BS? I believe it Yoke, it was painful to do so but it also healed. So I was not loved, I was not hated, I was a new term "split". 

I do belive the BPD's are splitting us but i dont belive that you are all good or all bad.. its not normal behaviour to think such.. at all. That is why WE have it so hard to understand them.. and it hurts like hell being splitted.. I do think they love us deeply, but when we come too close the engulfment,and fear of abandonment kicks in.. and the must protect themselves from us- so they leave us so they cant be left by us ( wich we wouldnt do).. sad but true..


Excerpt"    there was always existing something of a thought in me that "this love is too good to be true" as much as the "hatred" was too extreme to be real-world in origin. I did not fully and blindly completely accept the praise as much as I did not accept the criticism. There was a latent "there is something not right about any of this - her view on me is distorted" but not enough knowledge to take action about, and so the relationship just ebbed along like this. A lot of apathy eventually, depressing stuff, this disappointment. Leave? I eventually got so low in mood that I stopped caring. Insults were just noise, drama was just stage-play. Did it ever get a bit - boring Yoke? Did the 5th break up feel the same as the first?".. No it did never get boring with her, but each time she broke up with me it hurted more because someway deep inside.. i felt that it was "too good to be true".. and that is why i dont think she will ever contact me again...god knows how much i want just to see her for a minute, just look at her.. but that is just a wish and nothing good will come out of it. She has a new man now, and maybe she will live happy with him all her life? Because they do not have to treat everyone like she treated me? Like idealisation, devaluation, push-pull.. do they do that in every relationship they are in? Do u think so @Cromwell?.

[Yoke]

Hi @Cromwell! So i made u smile with the borderlion? that i heard in the book stop walking on eggshells.. ironic i find it a bit cute.. borderlion.. in all other tragical things
Excerpt " you wrote : Attacks were of the passive-aggressive doctrine: sarcasm, put downs, jibes, sleight.." i am sorry to hear about how she treated her, really. The can be so cruel.. But you came out stronger when she contacted u 9 months after the no contact. I belive that you change as a person after a relationship with a Bpd... were she a treated Bpd?  

I totally agree on how a relationship SHALL Be. Just like u wrote here.
Ecxerpt: relationship of any form, for me, is about harmony. In this case, becoming in harmony to a woman who could change her identity, change her behaviour, change her view of anyone in a flip-of-the switch way. I had to learn this over time as part of the deal, even if I had little idea at all as to what caused it. I had time also to relearn some stuff such as defining what "drama" actually means - to me - not her version. "excitement" too, I "entertainment" so many others. "
It is not how we had it, how we thought it would be from the start, because if we knew that from the beginning, would we have got into it then? I really dont know. If i have known more about Bpd, how they, /my ex think, work, feel... then i maybe would have done it. She was the love of my life @Cromwell.. really. And i am not sure that i will ever try love someone again.. have you tried again? Was it hard? And how long did it take for you to get into a new relationship..? Just answer if u want!

Excerpt: Do you believe in the "splitting" theory, Yoke? Does it make any of this less confusing. Could you imagine yourself being in that situation? I know I cant. To completely believe that a person is all "good" or all "bad", and nothing else? I mean, not sure about your thoughts but to me - that is pretty "out there" to try and relate to. Do you believe in it, or do you think all the clinicians and researchers are just full of BS? I believe it Yoke, it was painful to do so but it also healed. So I was not loved, I was not hated, I was a new term "split". 

I do belive the BPD's are splitting us but i dont belive that you are all good or all bad.. its not normal behaviour to think such.. at all. That is why WE have it so hard to understand them.. and it hurts like hell being splitted.. I do think they love us deeply, but when we come too close the engulfment,and fear of abandonment kicks in.. and the must protect themselves from us- so they leave us so they cant be left by us ( wich we wouldnt do).. sad but true..


Excerpt"    there was always existing something of a thought in me that "this love is too good to be true" as much as the "hatred" was too extreme to be real-world in origin. I did not fully and blindly completely accept the praise as much as I did not accept the criticism. There was a latent "there is something not right about any of this - her view on me is distorted" but not enough knowledge to take action about, and so the relationship just ebbed along like this. A lot of apathy eventually, depressing stuff, this disappointment. Leave? I eventually got so low in mood that I stopped caring. Insults were just noise, drama was just stage-play. Did it ever get a bit - boring Yoke? Did the 5th break up feel the same as the first?".. No it did never get boring with her, but each time she broke up with me it hurted more because someway deep inside.. i felt that it was "too good to be true".. and that is why i dont think she will ever contact me again...god knows how much i want just to see her for a minute, just look at her.. but that is just a wish and nothing good will come out of it. She has a new man now, and maybe she will live happy with him all her life? Because they do not have to treat everyone like she treated me? Like idealisation, devaluation, push-pull.. do they do that in every relationship they are in? Do u think so @Cromwell?.

[Cromwell]

Hi Yoke

To answer, yes she was in treatment she got plenty support. Nope, not well enough for a serious long term relationship, the most I have done is dated and they have went well.

She has a new man now, and maybe she will live happy with him all her life? Because they do not have to treat everyone like she treated me? Like idealisation, devaluation, push-pull.. do they do that in every relationship they are in? Do u think so @Cromwell?.

The splitting. Yep, eventually, from idealisation to devaluation. It just a matter of when, not if. What happens then is due to a larger range of factors whether the relationship carries on "happily". It depends on how much a partner is going to stick around and tolerate it. You dont even have to do anything 'wrong' for it to get trigger, a delusion is all it takes to set it off.

Yoke I know you say you dont like this vacation and that you miss her. Try to pay attention to the words that we use, for me, I notice more how powerful they can be. In the UK we use the term holiday - it means in general terms, a break from something.

These first few months have been difficult Yoke, this matches up. It gets easier and as time goes on you will learn more, see the situation differently. Give some time to yourself to rest, the nervous system has been working hard - processing all these emotions, crying, anger, and so on.

If you are reading books like Walking on Eggshells - it is reinforcing the existence of the relationship. After all, in "todays" world - you are not walking on eggshells - the relationship is over. But burying oneself in books like that just prolongs the agony and reinforces memories of the ex partner. I have not read this book, and after talking with the author, I never will - but that is besides the point. Yoke, what ABC said about attachment disorder, I dont believe you have this - at least it needs about 6 months first of all to diagnose. But there is something important in how each of us are different in how we deal with relationship issues.

I mean, there are people out there who will have dated my ex and the moment saw signs of trouble - they will have cleared off, and not tolerated it. They didnt need to end up on a support site like here. They did not end up becoming so emotionally ill from it. So most of my journey in healing and therapy has been learning more about myself and how it resulted in things happening the way they did. Less trying to figure out "borderlions" - how they (might) think, what they (might) do, etc. I dont see it helpful Yoke. Try to find some happiness and your spirirts up. Orient your thoughts to other people other things, hobbies, the relationship is over and the world is a big place. The focus on them, why is it so seemingly obsessive?

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell.! I dothink i have it hard to just close the chapter because i dont deserve to be treated like this. With the anger and rage from her.. i loved her soo much and just get left suddenly with no explanation, just false accusations- that is the hardest thing i have ever experienced... why? Did she not tell me What! I have done? Was it just a bad easy  excuse to leave our relationship so she had to make it all up like i had done something wrong?.. It just is so damn hard to understand. That she just left it all. We spent 9 month, 24/7.. and did that not mean a thing to her... was it not worth fight for?.. i do go out meet people, friends- but it does not make me happy. Nothing makes me happy anymore @Cromwell... am sorry. People here gave me the advice to read the book, but as u say, maybe it just makes everything worse? U might be right.! 

Excerpt: The splitting. Yep, eventually, from idealisation to devaluation. It just a matter of when, not if. " why do you think that will happen in her relationships ?.. i know that when it gets to close? For her, - the devaluation kicks in... like i told you with the father of her child.. she left him while signing papers at the bank .! ( her story)... i do think she is not telling the whole truth... i hate myself for still defend her among my friends.. why do i do that? Tell me. No i dont have a attatchment disorder. 100% sure.! Thanks for trying to cheer me up @Cromwell.! Can i ask, when did u realize something were "wrong" with your ex? And why dont u have a new relationship? Are u afraid and still damaged of her?

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell.! I dothink i have it hard to just close the chapter because i dont deserve to be treated like this. With the anger and rage from her.. i loved her soo much and just get left suddenly with no explanation, just false accusations- that is the hardest thing i have ever experienced... why? Did she not tell me What! I have done? Was it just a bad easy  excuse to leave our relationship so she had to make it all up like i had done something wrong?.. It just is so damn hard to understand. That she just left it all. We spent 9 month, 24/7.. and did that not mean a thing to her... was it not worth fight for?.. i do go out meet people, friends- but it does not make me happy. Nothing makes me happy anymore @Cromwell... am sorry. People here gave me the advice to read the book, but as u say, maybe it just makes everything worse? U might be right.!  

Excerpt: The splitting. Yep, eventually, from idealisation to devaluation. It just a matter of when, not if. " why do you think that will happen in her relationships ?.. i know that when it gets to close? For her, - the devaluation kicks in... like i told you with the father of her child.. she left him while signing papers at the bank .! ( her story)... i do think she is not telling the whole truth... i hate myself for still defend her among my friends.. why do i do that? Tell me. No i dont have a attatchment disorder. 100% sure.! Thanks for trying to cheer me up @Cromwell.! Can i ask, when did u realize something were "wrong" with your ex? And why dont u have a new relationship? Are u afraid and still damaged of her?

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell.! I dothink i have it hard to just close the chapter because i dont deserve to be treated like this. With the anger and rage from her.. i loved her soo much and just get left suddenly with no explanation, just false accusations- that is the hardest thing i have ever experienced... why? Did she not tell me What! I have done? Was it just a bad easy  excuse to leave our relationship so she had to make it all up like i had done something wrong?.. It just is so damn hard to understand. That she just left it all. We spent 9 month, 24/7.. and did that not mean a thing to her... was it not worth fight for?.. i do go out meet people, friends- but it does not make me happy. Nothing makes me happy anymore @Cromwell... am sorry. People here gave me the advice to read the book, but as u say, maybe it just makes everything worse? U might be right.!  

Excerpt: The splitting. Yep, eventually, from idealisation to devaluation. It just a matter of when, not if. " why do you think that will happen in her relationships ?.. i know that when it gets to close? For her, - the devaluation kicks in... like i told you with the father of her child.. she left him while signing papers at the bank .! ( her story)... i do think she is not telling the whole truth... i hate myself for still defend her among my friends.. why do i do that? Tell me. No i dont have a attatchment disorder. 100% sure.! Thanks for trying to cheer me up @Cromwell.! Can i ask, when did u realize something were "wrong" with your ex? And why dont u have a new relationship? Are u afraid and still damaged of her?

[Cromwell]

Thanx @Cromwell.! I dothink i have it hard to just close the chapter because i dont deserve to be treated like this. With the anger and rage from her.. i loved her soo much and just get left suddenly with no explanation, just false accusations- that is the hardest thing i have ever experienced... why?

Hi Yoke, did you know her in your life before the 9 month engagement? I ask because it is not in total a lot of time to "know" anyone. This here, is where disappointment kicks in, but this is what engagement is all about, exclusivity with a view to potential marriage. You gave her your love, you did your best, in the process you found out a lot that made you unhappy, there were many break ups in that time.

Maybe she decided she did not want to try anymore but lacked the courage to tell you in a proper way. Some people cant handle confrontation and the heightened emotions that are expected, your reaction to it. You already have all the answers yourself - her lack of maturity, her aggressive outbursts and how you do not feel deserved to be treated this way - it was not appropiate reaction.

I do agree with you if reading these books makes you more upset, dont do it! Walking on Eggshells, I have not read, from what I gather it is for those - in - relationships with BPD. You and me are advanced from this, it is not relevant anymore. The relationship is over, the umbilical cord severed. There is no eggshells to walk on anymore. Unless we decide to go back to it. This is where my early warning to you that she might contact again. If you want a relationship where you are having to role play as a psychiatric nurse or if you want to pick yourself up, dust your self off, accept that it was an ill person who has treated you this way and it was not what you wanted.

It is disappointing, it takes a little time, but dont dwell on this and waste more of your life than necessary. Out there - is - a match for you. But they are only available once you have dropped the emotional baggage from the one previous. Her stuff back, the letter, the flowers - youve done well Yoke. Closure, it will help her. The key point is to take advantage of it.

The relationship was very damaging for me Yoke, after 3 years I became very ill. The more ill I got, the more nasty she got. I never saw it as love anymore. I had to get her out my life and find priorities straight. When your health is ruined, you become disqualified from - any - relationship at all. I was also threatened, my family were even threatened - I was stalked - she never made it easy to break away and I was worried, it created huge anxiety to have to deal with.

Yoke feel proud of what you have done so far - all the hard work - that she has not helped you in any way. The tears, the upset, the confusion, the anger - all of it. You have been hurt but you have dealt with it/dealing with it. This is confidence building stuff. Once you are healed you have the dignity back, so to will happiness. I start to experience this in myself now. A lot of this stuff is becoming the master of your own emotions, learning control over them and not getting carried away by them.

I have many relationships Yoke, old ones strengthened, new ones since leaving her. I also found new passions and joy in a career that I spend most my waking hours on. New hobbies that also bring happiness. Im not desperately needy for a serious relationship and to a small extent, Ive healed but there is still work to do. The right relationship would help, the wrong one - I cant afford it at this moment. But the sex drive is back, the happy days are starting to outnumber the depressed ones. Get yourself an A4 sized diary Yoke and fill it up with stuff to do. Even if being with friends does not make you happy, ask yourself - has it in any small way made you happi-er? If so, it is valuable. Just keep adding more happi-er stuff in. The net aggregate effect is mood stabiliser. I can choose to sit and do nothing but get upset about the past, or I can go and do something, buy something, spend time with someone that will be - better. The major point here is proof by living each day that I can be happy without her, or people like her, in my life. She became redundant when she was once the centre of my emotional state.

have you any other dreams in life Yoke? stuff you wanted to do but have not yet? What is stopping you now. If this has been such a huge loss, and you have coped with it - what have you to lose in trying the other stuff? Now might be the perfect time to try it, you can rewrite the story, it does not have to be a trauma one, you are in charge of the story Yoke, I believe whatever pain you have had you can change it today.

Pain is our natural messenger to tell us something is hurting us, something is wrong. Alert that it is not wanted. Make your mind up if you still want to love what gives pain, and if it is acceptable that the two should be linked together. It just started to feel "un-natural" as a human to be thinking that way.

[Yoke]

Thanx @Cromwell! I am so sorry you have went through all this.. am sorry to hear it. But u managed to come out of it and am proud of you!
 Something i dont understand is this : The more ill I got, the more nasty she got. I never saw it as love anymore."
How did she think? And why did she become more nasty? U were already down and she continued to kick on you?. Evil and makes me sad! And angry!

Excerpt:
Hi Yoke, did you know her in your life before the 9 month engagement? I ask because it is not in total a lot of time to "know" anyone" yes i knew her 3 months before we got togheter. . We worked together and talked much as friends first. She totally opend her soul to me in the very beginning. Showed me her pain.. i felt it so strong and it was so sad, but so beautiful to dare do such. That was the firtst thing i fell in love with her first... that she opend up to me. Her heart.. Of course i did never "know" her fully. Not in that short time.. but i do belive no one will ever know someone fully.. not 100%.. ever..


Excerpt : Unless we decide to go back to it. This is where my early warning to you that she might contact again."  Thanx for the warning. But am 100% sure she will never come back. Why- because she has a new relationship now, all the textmessage of pure hate to me. That makes me belive she never will contact me again @Cromwell.  So for me there is no "might.".  If she wanted  why have she doesn't come back already? That makes no sense...

Excerpt: have you any other dreams in life Yoke? stuff you wanted to do but have not yet? What is stopping you now. If this has been such a huge loss, and you have coped with it - what have you to lose in trying the other stuff? Now might be the perfect time to try it, you can rewrite the story, it does not have to be a trauma one, you are in charge of the story Yoke, I believe whatever pain you have had you can change it today.  "  . It has not felt right to chase my dreams now.. she crushed everyone.. the marrige, the moving in together, this summer and vaccation.. it took hard on me. All of it. It is just now i have started not to cry every day, feeling so empty.. i do feel empty still, sad, angry.. my therapist told me it can take up to a year... to feel better. But i have one dream that i will make come true hopefully. - am going to buy me a house. That will make me happy. In some way. Because i have always wanted a house. A garden. That dream i dont want her to destroy... so thats were i am now. .. please respond. / Yoke

[orderline]

Borderline Personality Disorder - BPD is exactly what it says. A disorder.

It means things are not in order and there is not the same causation we expect. The feelings they feel are not caused in a way to understand. There is no hidden meaning or variant of logic.

Initially we may hope if we understand their logic we will have an explanation. Even better if THEY can explain what happened? But they cant.

The requirement for logic is like your house has burned down and you wonder why the doorbell button has not melted.

A PBD can look wonderful and be extremely intelligent, but some wires are not there. There is no logic to understand. The module you are looking for has been replaced by another spare part.

The best I can think of is. They way the think they view relations differently. When they get feelings they are strong and painful. The main activity is to avoid the pain. The toolbox or skill they have is invented by the brain of a small child and some signals may not even be present. It is ALL about this pain and about them ALL the time.

In this mental chaos they act to alleviate the pain and the actions are not to build relationships. They will want relationships but bounce out of them because of distorted feelings and poor actions.

The action are simple, and most of the time, resentful, mean, angry. They see you as all evil if that makes them feel better - and they have no say.

They will have feelings that leave them out of the picture. Their brain will automatically arrange every trace of guilt, sadness for the better. For them.

If they have to call you dirty pig or the worst scum they ever met, they will do it. It is only therapy and has nothing to do with us.

What makes us so sad is they look and act as they are in reality, but most of the time they are not present. They are 100% occupied with their own extremely painful thoughts. Or actually the "replacement feelings" or "induced feelings" to not have the thoughts. The process is automatic. Most of the time it is thinking them the same we think we are thinking, while we actually have thoughts and reactions automatically delivered without effort.

Do you really think you are important to someone in so much pain?

Whenever they need, they will be gone to be fixed by an even better idea they have on how to feel a bit less or have more distraction. They can start an argument only to be entertained or have a bit of distraction. If you pay attention they seldom are able to make a conclusion or finalize into something productive.

An hour long talk we most likely end in disaster. They will just end it due to lack of interest or rage out of it. At best they can calm down with zero conclusion.

It is not about learning or understandning. Problems are not solved by a long talk over a cup of coffe. It is about distorted and missing signals that forces them to adapt the best they can. Without professional help chances getting better are small.

Some get better with old age, but patterns are deeply rooted. With age I think they relax a bit and get of relations. Maybe they calm down as the brain no longer have the computing power to service a full time BPD.

Just a wild guess from someone who got out alive.

If we do not work for them we are replaced. They are in constant need and are forced to move on if we are not good "care givers"

It is the same pattern they use if a workplace or flat does not work. They are poor on self soothing and to regualte bad feelings. When they can not transform feelings they will be forced to act - to move physically away from the cause of the feeling.

[Harri]

This thread reached the maximum post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 3 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339367.msg13074524#msg13074524

Thank you