Red Alert Going down...need ideas...

[MidLifCrysis1]

 

Quick catch up: the crashing and burning of our relationship has been held off for a few weeks/months due to my father passing, our girls going off to college, car kicking the bucket, and a few other things. That all has passed now, as of 08/23. Rollercoaster few days - according to my wife, after the initial day of super-awful, everything was great! :-/  Go figure.

Current situation, while "everything was great and we were recovering and happy" remember, I found her seated at the dining room table in a very uncommon way - she doesn't ever do this unless she is working on something there, but she was just sitting there staring out into space and playing a little phone game that she does sometimes. This was very odd. I knew she had just taken a walk, which usually produces a brightening of her energy and attitude, but she looked drained.

So, I asked, "What's up? Whatcha' doin'?" in a light-hearted fashion, but with wary dread in my mind.
She replies, "Just takin' a break." Which I thought was odd. She would usually consider the walk to be a break.
So, I said, "Whatcha' breakin' from?" or something similar...maybe followed with something else indicating wondering what she was up to since she got back from the walk.

Well...there it was.

So my question about what she was up to was taken in the vein of "A break? What could you possibly be taking a break from? You don't do anything..." (you get the idea)

She conveyed that she was hurt by this question via words and I could tell from the look on her face, like I just said, "Hi, hon. Drop dead."

I jumped on it, thinking I had this one under control, cause I was ready for it, but got slapped back into place by the Universe.

I said something to explain how I didn't mean any implied insult-related meaning by my question and I knew she had been busy at tasks all morning. Just meant what I said, "What are you taking a break from? As in, what were you doing since your walk?"

I guess I still hit the hair-trigger JADEing button, ever so slightly, even though I was trying to avoid it.

But, of course, my reply began the avalanche of me being some argumentative, defensive, selfish a-hole.

And it went downhill from there...

But here's the  part!

We got into a conversation, even though I tried to avoid it, about her BPD-like attributes. I was able to dodge mentioning BPD, but got dragged into talking about some of the traits/behaviors/etc that are problem areas.

This situation lasted from some time near 3pm to 1am! Like straight-through. Completely blew off work, phone rings, her schoolwork, food, drink, etc.

It was really bad. She was on/off calm and hysterical and panicked and furious and sad...We did go to bed together, but sometime during the night, she left the bed and slept somewhere else. Then she did not interact with me before going off to work (not normal), did not message me to say she arrived at work (also not normal), and has not replied to VM or TXT messages at all (also not normal) so far...

...This might be it...could really use some wisdom/strategy/advice/ideas...

 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Ozzie101]

That's really tough, MLC. I'm sorry!

I've been there -- or near there. It seems like things are turning a corner or improving and then BAM! It hits and everything implodes, leaving us hurt and, more likely than not, confused.

I can definitely understand where you were coming from with what you said. I can also see how, to the BPD mind, it could come across the wrong way.

That's a lot of stressful things to happen in a short time but I'm actually not surprised that things seemed OK for a bit. Last year, I had a relatively minor health crisis that required a couple of out-patient procedures and involved quite a bit of pain. Again, not serious or life-threatening, but not pleasant. H was a rock. Not long after, I had a bad car accident. Again, he was great. But soon after those happened, he really started to spiral down.

Maybe he (and your wife) were able to keep it together and then, after a few days passed, the stress finally erupted like a volcano? The center can't hold.

I heard once that there's a theory among firefighters that the longer you go without a call, the worse the next call will be.

In this case, the trigger was something minor, but the piled-up stress of the last few weeks caused a little tremor to turn into the scene from Superman with the San Andreas Fault.

Think that might make sense here?

That said, for the moment, I would give her some time and space to come back down to baseline. It may take a bit. Hard as it is, I would wait and suss it out. Try to go on with your normal routine. Don't try to discuss it with her (nothing productive comes from that when someone is dysregulating). Don't count on her for her normal chores, etc. Try to be open to her, but don't push anything. Let her come to you when she's calmed down.

Does that sound doable?

If she goes into another rant or starts spiraling, it would help to have a plan in mind -- particularly to stop the train before it goes off the rails. Have you been able to exit those discussions before? All-night sessions like that aren't any good for anyone.

Others here are wiser than I am and may have more/better suggestions!

[Birddog]

My SO  will want me close at arms length, can be maddening.

Read line out of title from Fathers to Daughters, May apply here for SOs.

“Your daughter may not always want to talk, enjoy the quiet.”

[Ozzie101]

How are you doing, MCL? How did things go last night?

[MidLifCrysis1]

Thank you for checking in on me, Oz.
It made me feel good. Gave me a little smile and had some feeling in my chest for a minute.

She almost didn't come home at all. But she called me and I managed to talk her into it.
She seems like someone siphoned her soul and 90% of her life force out of her body.
She still cycles thru waves of varying emotions: astonishment, fury, fear, hopelessness, mistrust, sadness, etc.

It's pretty bad. I can see her working feverishly to rewrite the situation and events.
Already, she keeps telling me how the extra awful part is how I haven't brought any of this to her attention and kept it all from her. She ignores how I said I have tried and she can't discuss it...told me never to speak about it again...and one of the major issues I have is that I can't talk to her about these things - which I have been saying to her regularly for a while now.

Also, she has said that the fact that I think "these things" is awful enough. But how I "beat the sh!t out of her about it for hours and then retracted almost everything I said is SO worse" - I really have no idea what she could mean about the retracting, although I believe she is either 1) rewriting the original things [that she interpreted] I said on Monday or 2) rewriting the things [that she interpreted] I said on Monday while trying to correct her initial misinterpretations of what I said on Monday

Who can tell? It's absurd. I don't really know what she thinks I said the first time. I don't know what she thinks I said to correct her 1st misunderstanding. And I don't know what she thinks now when she remembers EITHER one of those conversations. It's just ridiculous.

Now she is looking for me to humbly apologize for all my transgressions and prove that I want to be with her.
This is her rewriting the entire situation to equal me being crazy and thinking crazy stuff about her and behaving in line with it and not talking to her about my thoughts (which she says should be a simple matter of course, as if it just never occurred to me to try).

I've no idea what to expect next.

In a disturbing way, I do feel a tiny bit better having thrown (at least) some things out on the table and stopped having to bite my tongue. Now, either she's going to deal with me bringing issues to her attention (which it seems she can't) and attempting to address them somehow, or she's going to go the route of me being intolerable and what not and deciding we need to split.

I just wish I knew what stance to take; which was to play it: do I just try to be easy and loving, but firm about my points? Do I take a harder stance? There's something to be said for "ripping the scab off" as they say. I'm afraid that if I am too supportive to how awful this all is for her, it will continue to feed her position that she's the victim and I am the perpetrator.

I hate this.

[Ozzie101]

Sounds like she's in a major dysregulation phase at the moment. I know from experience that that can be really rough and I'm so sorry.

As you probably know, for pwBPD, feelings = facts. Right now, she's upset and, like others with BPD, emotions are heightened. A minor sunburn feels like it's a third-degree. Because she also lacks coping skills, she's responding by rewriting history or reinterpreting things to fit what she's feeling. (Not consciously, by the way.) That leads to those statements and conversations that sound utterly ridiculous to us. The first sign to me that something was really off about my H was when he told me he believed that my father or grandfather must have molested me as a child. He felt threatened by my family and my closeness to them, so he somehow got it into his head that that must have happened. Utterly false and patently ridiculous, but he truly believed it.

She wants an apology and a full agreement. That's not unusual. I've seen many threads with people talking about the same thing. The thing you do NOT want to do is admit to something that is false or that you didn't do. Never validate the invalid. Just feelings.

We do have some tools on validation and empathetic listening, but those are really more long-term tools and don't necessarily work as a band-aid when there's a major episode going on.

I think trying to be open and loving is a good strategy. Again, firm on not giving in on certain points. When you are supportive about how awful it is, how do you phrase it? You're right. You don't want to feed into the victim/perpetrator monster.

I don't think I'd play hardball. As I said, it sounds like she's having a major episode right now. She won't really hear you. Any hard stance will just be more proof of your "wrongdoing." The better strategy is to let her come back to baseline.

That said, when you say she accused you of "beating" her -- was she meaning literally or metaphorically? I ask because many people here have been unfairly accused of DV by their loved ones.

In the meantime, how's your self-care? Your support system (other than us here)? At times like this, you need all the help and care you can get.

[MidLifCrysis1]

Thanks again. Nice to have a friend.

*nods* Aware of most of the points in your message, but good to hear/see them reiterated - helps with the self-sanity-checks.

I admit, I struggle with validation. I think it is because she is sharp and chases me down into a position where "Yeah, I get it...you appreciate that it's crappy for me. But what about the issue itself?" She hunts for me to pin the ownership and blame on myself for how she feels/perceives a situation. I never know how to handle that. It ultimately appears that I am dancing around that point, once she zeros in it enough that it is clearly the only thing left on the table. She plays BPD-hardball. It's like a sinister AI or something.

As for my phrasing, it is in the general vein of:
"I understand that this situation must feel really awful. I know it's hard and you might feel scared or betrayed, but I am here and I love you and I want us to work this out and go forward together."

Sometimes I go into the realm of:
"I am not doing/saying any of this from a position of hurting you. I am bringing this up to help us get to a better place." --- although I think this often puts me too close to the ever-dangerous JADE-button.

My gut already knows that the hardball approach isn't going to get us anywhere; I guess I am just afraid that she is rapidly going to slide away from all of the hard things that have just finally gotten put out into the open. The damage/hurt just happened. I don't want to waste it (that sounds wrong, but I bet you know what I mean) and lose any positional ground I might have gained.

"Beating her" (in this case) was clearly not meant in a physical sense - although she claims physical trauma from the event, but not by my hands, rather by my words, thoughts, and beliefs. Of course, it is possible that in a day or two or three, the thought that I was actually physically harming her could arise in her mind. *shakes head* How the heck are rational people supposed to deal with stuff like that?

Lastly, self-care: *stares at shoes* Uhm...more than none, I guess. :-/  My friend called me yesterday to check up on me, knowing some of my long-term (not recent) situation and I ended up talking to him for almost 1.5 hours. That helped, I guess. Otherwise, I am in bi-weekly counseling (that my wife thinks is feeding all of this awfulness that I think/believe...yea :-| ) That should be later tonight, in fact, but it doesn't really do hardly any good. Don't really have anything else. I think that's probably why you checking up on me made such an impact. How many times can I say "Thanks." before it's too many? *sigh*

And the waves keep crashing...

[Birddog]

Keep up on self care plan, she’ll need you strong when she’s back on baseline.

working “kindness” mindfulness for myself. we’re allowed to do that? 

[Ozzie101]

That's right, Birddog. Self-care is key -- for you and for her. Yet it's so easy to let that slide. I know I didn't pay much attention to myself and what I needed or wanted when H was in his bad phase. Then, after several months, I hit a wall. If timing hadn't been good, that could have been a bad situation. I'm glad you were able to talk to your friend. And that you're seeing a counselor. My H was against my seeing one, too, and it still makes him a bit uneasy, but he's accepted it. Why is it you feel the counseling isn't doing any good? Are you not connecting with the T? Or does the T not really grasp the situation?

I've been in a similar boat to you in a lot of ways. My H is also very sharp. It's so hard to be evasive with him because he'll just keep coming at it and want clear, direct statements. I wish I had advice there, but it's something I haven't quite figured out myself. Lately, it's been a little better just because H has new self-awareness regarding his anger issues. He still gets angry, but he's more likely to drop something, stew about it a bit, then come back to baseline than he is to rant and rage for hours like he did last year. My staying neutral, validating his feelings but holding firm to my boundaries and occasionally asking him direct but non-threatening questions has helped some.

The first phrase you gave is a good one, I think. What about "It sounds to me like you feel just awful about this. I know I would feel terrible if I felt like I had been betrayed. I'm here and I love you and I want us to work this out together." Subtle difference, but it's keeping even further away from the "you're right" line and also avoiding JADE (which, you're right, your second phrase kind of slides around on).

People were here for me when I needed it (still are) so in a way, I'm passing it on. I know you'll do the same.

[Birddog]

MidLifCrysis1

Checking in, doing ok?

[All_Out_of_Sync]

MLC,
sorry to hear you are in a rough patch.  Sounds very familiar to my own experience of my uBPDw demanding to continue talking, WAY PAST the point of anything productive.     Very frustrating.  Did you ask to pause or take a break?  I find that past an hour things are much more likely to do damage vs. be productive.

I am glad to hear you were able to voice some of the things you have been thinking over the last few weeks.  I agree with what was said before, be sure to avoid validating the invalid!

I have found it difficult in dealing with my perceptive, high functioning uBPDw because she wants & doesn't want the information.  Part of the push/pull cycle?   I think shame is a huge part that goes hand in hand with self-blame (but unwillingness yo own up yo it) and then splitting, against themself!   So hard to address head on...

I wish I had solid advice but lately, my boundaries have only brought accusations of being "weird & secretive".  All I can say is be sure to find those ways you can do selfcare (I started running again, ugh but good!)

Keep your chin up,
Sync

[MidLifCrysis1]

Thanks, folks, for support.

Me:  quickmeme.com/img/ef/efc0307a87c6df8b042699b51bfbe07349d13440ad321d38639843a388fb1f6b.jpg

Facts to Fit the Feelings: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
alt version: https://www.sott.net/article/343928-The-limitations-of-reason-Why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

So...Wednesday morning she was still a mess. I won't bother with details.
I drove her to work and came home. She had a very long day. I expected a drained, zombie-like, soulless shell of human when I picked her up around 7:30pm.

Instead, she came strolling out of her building...pleasantly stopped to admire a rainbow that happened to be visible nearby. I startled her a little when I walked up on her to greet her, having thought she already saw me, but she just jumped a little, smiled, said "Hi." and kissed me hello.

We walked and talked a little. I took her to dinner, where we talked about things going on in life, her job, my job, ya'know...normal conversation. No conversation about the recent ordeal.

She said something about "I just can't help but love you...even when I want to hate you." But she was smiling and pleasant the whole night.

This morning...pretty much the same.

I am not sure if I am glad, wary, frightened, or what...I guess I am all of those.

But I still don't know what to do.

[Ozzie101]

I know what you mean. Those sudden shifts can be disconcerting. Many times during H's bad phase, when he was in a good mood, I found myself unable to relax and enjoy it since I was too keyed up waiting for the next trigger and explosion.

My advice: Enjoy the calm. Use positive reinforcement when she's like this. Try to build on those good feelings.

Keep posting here and keep practicing your communication techniques.

[once removed]

She ignores..
It's just ridiculous...
This is her rewriting the entire situation

dont miss the forest for the trees MLC.

In a disturbing way, I do feel a tiny bit better having thrown (at least) some things out on the table and stopped having to bite my tongue. Now, either she's going to deal with me bringing issues to her attention
...
Also, she has said that the fact that I think "these things" is awful enough.

what is it that you said?

what is it that she feels hurt about?

[MidLifCrysis1]

Well, she bounced again.

Back in crisis mode. Blamed me for everything. Change stuff. Made stuff up.

And now has taken her stuff and our only car, said "I'm leaving you" and drove away - leaving me effectively stranded, alone in our cabin in the woods.

She absolutely can not abide the fact the I don't 100% believe that she is 100% perfectly fine and normal - along with all of her responses and feelings and behaviors.

And here I am - Saturday afternoon - on was supposed to be a nice, togethery, 3 day weekend - with not a soul.

[Birddog]

Well, that’s sucky.

Practical needs,

Food, water taken care of?  sounds like internet and shelter are fine.

Moving up chain, Hierarchy of needs,  hear you, frustrating as hell, can you hold out for 3 days, enjoy the solitude? Uber/lyft/Cab available when ready to return?

I’ve had so many plans hijacked and wrecked over the year, started planning a plan b, being book, run, wildlife photography, etc.

[Ozzie101]

I'm so sorry, MLC! How awful.

I've been offline all weekend and just now saw this. Can you give an update? What's going on? How are you?

[Birddog]

MLC,

Checking in, hope doing ok, been a couple days since last update.