push pull? what do you suggest

[ds_swoop]

I (34m) was talking to my uBPD partner (37f) (were not even officially a couple, just together for 11months with a 1.5 month break in there).

Yesterday evening she was really excited for me coming over and spending the weekend with her. Today she woke up and decided she feels weird about us and doesn't want to talk to me today.

Aside from giving her her space, I'm feeling anxious and scared about her leaving.

I don't know what to think about it. Anyone have a similar experience?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Witz_End]

What does she say feels weird about you two to her?  Or, if she didn't elaborate, what have you pieced together as far as why she may feel that way?

[ds_swoop]

What does she say feels weird about you two to her?  Or, if she didn't elaborate, what have you pieced together as far as why she may feel that way?

She didn't. She's moving to another town so she's overwhelmed and we had a rough weekend last weekend. We had talked about spending the weekend together and how positive that would be. Then the next morning was just her frustrated with me. So I honestly don't know what made her feel that way.

Does this seem like push/pull to you?

[Witz_End]

I can't speak for her, but something to bear in mind is that pwBPD's don't deal well with being separated.  That whole fear of abandonment thing.  Even though the separation is not created by abandonment, it has the same effect in that there is parting or moving apart.

If the new town is a greater distance, putting geography between, that can be a factor to any emotional turbulence and swings.

How serious is the relationship and how invested in it had she seemed to be on the whole?

[ds_swoop]

Oh my. She seems to like to have her distance with me, so apparently I'm not thinking clearly through this. Yeah, the new town is about 100miles away, no joke. I might have an option to move there soon, but there's no guarantees as of yet.

The relationship is 11 months in, and I was hoping it was going to somewhere serious, but we're not even bf/gf yet. We were apart for about 1.5 months, about 1.5 months ago, and she says she's still figuring out if she's on board with this. I think she's trying to figure out if she's willing to do an LDR with me, and/or if I'll get a job up there with her. I honestly can't tell how serious she is about it. She seems to want it, but pulls crap like this all the time where she gets all pissed off and throws a fit. Today she was trying to pick a fight with me multiple times.

The problem is, the fighting makes me hesitant to move up there, especially since I can make 1.5x where I'm at vs moving up there. It makes it hard to want to happily be downgraded in pay when our relationship is in such turmoil so often.

[ColdKnight]

I would not make a major life altering decision based on her. These people are skittish as hell. Someone likened them to nervous horses.

It’s so hard when they pull away. Do you try and subdue their fear of abandonment when they pull away by reassuring them? He problem with that is by doing that it seems to trigger their fear of engulfment all. It is impossible to know the right answer. You can do everything right and still be wrong.

I have done both (validate/reassure & give them space) when they pull away. Neither seems to work.

If I had to do it all over again I WOULD NOT validate and reassure. All that does is make you look and feel needy and you lose respect for yourself and I believe deep down they do too.

I would pull away when they go cold. It may not work but reassurance may not either but at least if you pull away when they go cold, you can walk away with your self respect.

That’s just me. That’s what I would do if I had it to do over.

[ds_swoop]

I used to try and reassure, but now I just pull away and try not to play into the game. But the problem it seems is she likes playing games.

For instance:

After her throwing a tantrum and me being supremely annoyed by it, when she started playing the "I don't know if I'll have time to talk with you tonight" game, I just played into it while being supportive, "ok, no worries! let's talk tomorrow if you're feeling tired", and she immediately responded with "I'm almost done, I'll call you in a second".

BUT when we talked, we didn't talk about the tantrum she threw, and of course, she didn't bother to apologize.

So I am now playing into her game by trying to mess with her head.

[quoteThat’s what I would do if I had it to do over.][/quote]

Would you do it at all if you had it to do over?

[once removed]

I honestly can't tell how serious she is about it.

do you think this could be part of whats going on?

do you think the two of you might have different expectations and commitments?

[ColdKnight]

“Would you do it at all if you had it to do over”

Yes I would but I would approach it VERY different. The problem was i really, really liked this girl and I was afraid to lose her. Bad things happen when you are in that position.

When we first started texting she didnt return a text and dropped off for 14 days. I swore that I would not text her unless she texted me first. She did and things were great for a while.

After we slept together she triangulated me with and ex and I began to lose emotional control. I began to fear losing her and  things changed. She began to play the hot and cold game. I got sucked into it and got needy and approval seeking. This is a bad position to be in. Women hate needy men. They abhor it. This was before I knew anything about BPD.

My second go round with her  I was torn between advice on how to handle a girl with BPD (over-communicate, always be there for them, always reassure them ect) and dating coach advice of don’t over pursue.

So I did a combination of both. At the beginning I really tried to validate her and let her know I was still there for her even when she was giving me the silent treatment. I would never/will never do that again. If a girl doesn’t return a text or a call then that’s it. They will never hear from me again until they do.

It is a hard line to follow when you really like them but I feel it is a must with a someone with BPD. If you let them get away with bad behavior they will continue to do it.

You have to be willing to say. “Ok, you don’t feel like seeing me tonight. Call me when you feel like it. I’m going to make other plans” This may upset them and trigger abandonment fears. But after my ordeal I would rather trigger abandonment than engulfment. Both could cause her to split you black but I truly believe you have a better chance of coming back from abandonment than engulfment.

This last go around ended because out of the blue she said I wasn’t making her feel wanted. Long story short I called her and she said she would call me right back after she got out of the shower. She never did. I waited two weeks and could not stand it anymore and texted her. She responded very neutral and then the next day told me she had met someone who wasn’t embarrassed of her. To do it all over again I would NEVER contact her if she didn’t return my call when she said she would. That is just rude and should not be tolerated. BUT i showed her she could get away with it by chasing her.

Again, that is just what I would do. Someone may have different advice.

[ds_swoop]

Thank you for the insight.

Interestingly enough, she is looking for things she doesn't like about me. I think she's trying to put together a case in her head to leave me.

When they are in this mode - what can I expect?

[ColdKnight]

What sort of things is she looking for?

Is she pointing out specifics?

I think you can expect her to continue to pick at you until she gets a negative reaction from you which will give her an excuse to rage at you and then give you the silent treatment. This is what mine LOVED to do. When I said pulling back didn’t work I can’t really say that for sure because I would always cave in and reach out because I was afraid she would feel abandoned and would never contact me.

To do it over I would not give da** about her abandonment issues when she was giving me the silent treatment. I would sent this text “When you want to communicate like an adult get ahold of me. Until then I will be doing my own thing” This sends a very clear message: I am here when you want to talk, I am not going to keep reaching out to you AND I am not going to put my life on hold for you” I truly believe they need to hear that. We give them WAAAAY too much leeway because of their BPD.

If you don’t react to her picking she will probably tell you she doesn’t feel like you care or something like that and then give you the silent treatment and then out of the blue tell you that she has met someone or she is just not sure about the relationship. She will say something to try and get you to prove how much you care for her or how much the relationship means to you. She give you every reason to chase, beg and plead and as soon you do that she will string you along and then cut you loose.

That is just from my experience and seems consistent with many other scenarios I have read on this board.

Again...that is just my experience and that is what I would do had I to do it all again.

[ds_swoop]

What sort of things is she looking for?

Is she pointing out specifics?

Some specific, some not.

She'll get upset about things like what I like on social media and claim that our differences in humor make her concerned that we're not compatible.

She doesn't like that I still keep in touch, on occasion, with my ex (who is honestly just a friend).

She ALWAYS focuses on the negative things and points out what doesn't work between us.

Sadly, I didn't post this prior to this weekend unfolding...She is wanting to go on a 'break' which consists of her mulling over things and not talking with me. What's frustrating about this is she's moving our relationship backward even more now because she's unwilling to commit and isn't accepting that fact. To add to it, she wants to see me this Saturday and introduce me to her cousins at a party they're having...Why would she want me to meet part of her family when she's already feeling iffy about me?

I sense that this relationship may be over and she's just not coming to terms with that fact.

[once removed]

context is key.

this isnt an official relationship. its also a long distance one (which presents its own set of confusion, and conflict).

at 11 months on again and off again, but not official, you have to ask yourself what the obstacles are (on both sides) and if they can be resolved. you need a game plan for bridging the gaps.

long distance relationships are a huge frustration. my ex lived an hour apart, we saw each other frequently, and even that was a strain. 1.5 months is like a lifetime of being apart (it partly led to my ex and i breaking up).

shes pushing for more commitment on one hand, and acknowledging the reality of the situation on the other. you have one foot in the relationship hoping for improvement, and one foot out, hesitant to go any further.

you can both feel this. it is not a sustainable trajectory.

so, whats going to give?

[ds_swoop]

you have to ask yourself what the obstacles are (on both sides) and if they can be resolved. you need a game plan for bridging the gaps.

I don't know how to do that or make plans when she's on this 'break'... would I just come up with a plan and tell her about it or wait for her to make a decision?

so, whats going to give?

Well, if I have to anticipate, it will be her ending this.

[secretgirl]

I’m kind of at a similar stage with my bf right now and honestly I think the best advice here now for both of us is to work on ourselves . My T asked me the other day : “why do you want to be with someone who continually emotionally abused you?” I wanted to say cause he’s not well etc but what it comes down to is we are too codependent .

I usually voice to my ubpdbf what I would like at fights and now if he doesn’t do it I bring it up again followed by my consistent actions in keeping my word. I mean obviously I’m not perfect either because I’m sensitive and sometimes go into defence mode which is what I need to learn to control but it seems what works best is the SET communication and then leaving it. Like cold knight said , fear of abandonment is better to trigger in them than fear of engulfment.

Fear of abandonment makes them stay or come back or sometimes not ? Because they could paint you black and never ever idealize you again?
I guess I’m thinking back what my T said to me this last week and coming to the conclusion that I can show consistent love and set boundaries but ten must stick to them.

My T also said to me “you do realize by setting vubsaties , you must be willing to The risk that he may never come back” and I decided that I am but this incessant cycle is unhealthy for me and my emotions.
My bf painted me black last week and now he’s idealizing me again until literally this morning and now it’s alnosy like sending engulfment from our back an forth obsessive texting which I know will trigger another fight because he will say “why aren’t you replying as much? You seem off” when in fact he started to reply less and less and almost seemed irritated at me even texting
And he does this thing where he will say “have fun” or “have a good morning” and crushes me off only to get mad later that I didn’t jeep texting? Lol and that’s fine I’m going to be consistent and say “I’ve told you before when you say have a good day or have fun it makes me feel like you’re brushing me off so if you want reaction C to happen (me to continue talking ) then do A+B”

But I’m at the point where if he ditched me again because of this in the span of three days I probably won’t care it’s not that it doesn’t hurt me or I stopped caring , it’s that you become indifferent and in a sense emotionally numb.
And sometimes I ask myself , Do I constantly want to put someone else’s needs above my own? Am I ok with not having my needs met with empathy also? I’ve been coming to the conclusion that I’m probably NOT ok with it.
So this relationship unless he seeks therapy a lot more, willl probably not work for me sadly.
So there are many things you must analyze/ ask yourself .
Bpd I’m realizing isn’t easily fixed it’s somethit we must choose to either deal with life long or not. And some of us may not be cut out for it. And that’s when self reflection must occur I think (which is the point I’m at). Learning YOUR boundaries, learning your triggers, learning what YOU need from a relationship. And it doesn’t mean you love this girl any less if you decide you can’t Sal with it. Either that or you must commit to change yourself because she most likely won’t. You must commit to having such a thick skin with such confidence that none of their bs affects you.

[secretgirl]

Sorry for some of the spelling errors I’m replying off my iphone and it’s hard to see hopefully you understand what I’m trying to say!