I think my partner has BPD and I'm in a weird spot now in our r/s...some advice

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi, so I met my bpd guy working as an exotic dancer... and he swept me off my feet asking me to go out on a date... we talked a LOT right off the bat, seemed to click super well... and eventually started to date. Things were wonderful for the first bit, we talked every day all day, and then the arguments started... mainly about my work... at first (before entering the r/s) I had made sure to ask him 200% if he was ok with my job because if he wasn't we couldn't move forward seeing as im a student and cannot quit right now... I'm out of state so it's a bit tough for me financially. So he agreed it was fine... but then later his excuse was he did not expect to love me as much as he does now and that now he is jealous etc. etc... I lessened my work for him even though he offered no financial support/substitute/help finding a similar or different job with somewhat of a similar pay... things went on and it's almost as he had some sort of power over me with my job because that's what he used against me in every fight... and kept saying im a golddigger and spoiled and if I didn't like money so much then I wouldn't be doing it... nevermind the fact I live on my own because my parents are passed away recently ... nevermind the pain and depression I endured from that, or the fact I'm still trying to hold my PLEASE READ together and continue my schooling on my own.
So... the fights got worse and worse and each time he would apologize after saying horrible things and cry and beg me back and say he doesn't know why he says it cause hes mad... I've forgiven him and ended up telling a therapist about it and she mentioned he might have a mood disorder. I started researching and saw people with BPD have similar... VERY similar traits... he had a rough childhood, lots of abuse, a neglectful mother whos addicted to drugs, a dad who abandoned their family, and put in and out of foster homes all his life... I had delved more into this and brought it up more to my therapist and she agreed with me he seems to have the disorder or at least VERY strongly resembling traits and that I should ask him to also seek therapy. (I have my fair share of issues also but overall I grew up in a stable household-but I wreak of codependency at times... especially since I lost my parents.. I seemed to have become more codependent than ever when I look at it now as compared to when they were alive).

Anywhoo... after he had emotionally abused me one last time then ghosted me... (later saying "I ghosted" him because I didn't text or call him like I NORMALLY do-- see, wreaking of codependency) I had been done. I suggested that I cant go on like this unless he sees a therapist. I cant be wondering when hes gonna snap over NOTHING , make up PLEASE READ in his head , accuse me of hurtful/untrue things, and then ghost. SO he went once to the counselor and I'm not sure what he told the therapist but it turns out he told me during a fight recently that his therapist thinks IM the one with BPD, and that his therapist told him not to tell me... which I think is either a lie, or he painted the picture so the opposite that his poor therapist believed his sob story.

Either way, I had shown FULL ON text messages to my own therapist of how we argue and she agreed with me that I DO NOT have bpd whatsoever (becayse I felt like I was going crazy for a second...) and that he definitely seems like he does but I cant change someone if theyre unwilling to see a problem themselves...
this last week and a half we got into FOUR arguments, and honestly I got SO drained that I ended up snapping for the FIRST time in our entire r/s of 7 months. and I told him unless he sees his counselor 3 mores times at least, I don't want him talking or seeing me.
He , of course, got mad... and then started saying passive aggressive digs until he saw I wasn't reacting to it/didn't care. Then I told him what my therapist said about the things he said during fights, and said that he needs things to work on, and I could work onbeing more patient etc... then I texted him saying that I don't want to not talk to him because I don't want to show Im abandoning him so I said if he needed me , Im here. and now he texts me short msgs like "have a good day" but every time I try and reply with how much I miss him etc, Im met with a short msg like that again... I don't want to ignore because I don't want to prove him right but I also am getting more and more frustrated by this... is he punishing me? I'm SO confused.
I need some advice on what to do... I feel so sad. and I feel like Im always attending to his needs, and I got so stressed from this last week of fighting during school that I ended up getting sick.

OH some KEY points:
1.) Im NOT working now for a few months... I saved up $$$ to be ok for a bit. and he said before our fights were only due to this but its clear now he cant seem to STOP fighting about ANYTHING.
2.) our fights this last week were literally about me not texting back something long enough once? and then one time me seeming "OFF" which I actually wasn't? (which is what leads me to believe hes bpd even moreso).

[secretgirl]

Hi, so I met my bpd guy working as an exotic dancer... and he swept me off my feet asking me to go out on a date... we talked a LOT right off the bat, seemed to click super well... and eventually started to date. Things were wonderful for the first bit, we talked every day all day, and then the arguments started... mainly about my work... at first (before entering the r/s) I had made sure to ask him 200% if he was ok with my job because if he wasn't we couldn't move forward seeing as im a student and cannot quit right now... I'm out of state so it's a bit tough for me financially. So he agreed it was fine... but then later his excuse was he did not expect to love me as much as he does now and that now he is jealous etc. etc... I lessened my work for him even though he offered no financial support/substitute/help finding a similar or different job with somewhat of a similar pay... things went on and it's almost as he had some sort of power over me with my job because that's what he used against me in every fight... and kept saying im a golddigger and spoiled and if I didn't like money so much then I wouldn't be doing it... nevermind the fact I live on my own because my parents are passed away recently ... nevermind the pain and depression I endured from that, or the fact I'm still trying to hold my PLEASE READ together and continue my schooling on my own.
So... the fights got worse and worse and each time he would apologize after saying horrible things and cry and beg me back and say he doesn't know why he says it cause hes mad... I've forgiven him and ended up telling a therapist about it and she mentioned he might have a mood disorder. I started researching and saw people with BPD have similar... VERY similar traits... he had a rough childhood, lots of abuse, a neglectful mother whos addicted to drugs, a dad who abandoned their family, and put in and out of foster homes all his life... I had delved more into this and brought it up more to my therapist and she agreed with me he seems to have the disorder or at least VERY strongly resembling traits and that I should ask him to also seek therapy. (I have my fair share of issues also but overall I grew up in a stable household-but I wreak of codependency at times... especially since I lost my parents.. I seemed to have become more codependent than ever when I look at it now as compared to when they were alive).

Anywhoo... after he had emotionally abused me one last time then ghosted me... (later saying "I ghosted" him because I didn't text or call him like I NORMALLY do-- see, wreaking of codependency) I had been done. I suggested that I cant go on like this unless he sees a therapist. I cant be wondering when hes gonna snap over NOTHING , make up PLEASE READ in his head , accuse me of hurtful/untrue things, and then ghost. SO he went once to the counselor and I'm not sure what he told the therapist but it turns out he told me during a fight recently that his therapist thinks IM the one with BPD, and that his therapist told him not to tell me... which I think is either a lie, or he painted the picture so the opposite that his poor therapist believed his sob story.

Either way, I had shown FULL ON text messages to my own therapist of how we argue and she agreed with me that I DO NOT have bpd whatsoever (becayse I felt like I was going crazy for a second...) and that he definitely seems like he does but I cant change someone if theyre unwilling to see a problem themselves...
this last week and a half we got into FOUR arguments, and honestly I got SO drained that I ended up snapping for the FIRST time in our entire r/s of 7 months. and I told him unless he sees his counselor 3 mores times at least, I don't want him talking or seeing me.
He , of course, got mad... and then started saying passive aggressive digs until he saw I wasn't reacting to it/didn't care. Then I told him what my therapist said about the things he said during fights, and said that he needs things to work on, and I could work onbeing more patient etc... then I texted him saying that I don't want to not talk to him because I don't want to show Im abandoning him so I said if he needed me , Im here. and now he texts me short msgs like "have a good day" but every time I try and reply with how much I miss him etc, Im met with a short msg like that again... I don't want to ignore because I don't want to prove him right but I also am getting more and more frustrated by this... is he punishing me? I'm SO confused.
I need some advice on what to do... I feel so sad. and I feel like Im always attending to his needs, and I got so stressed from this last week of fighting during school that I ended up getting sick.

OH some KEY points:
1.) Im NOT working now for a few months... I saved up $$$ to be ok for a bit. and he said before our fights were only due to this but its clear now he cant seem to STOP fighting about ANYTHING.
2.) our fights this last week were literally about me not texting back something long enough once? and then one time me seeming "OFF" which I actually wasn't? (which is what leads me to believe hes bpd even moreso).

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Secretgirl-

I’d like to welcome you to our community.  I’m sad for the pain that brings you here, but glad that you’ve found us.

 I am very sorry for the loss of your parents.  It IS important that you allow yourself the time and space to properly grieve that deep loss.  You may have already seen this with your uBPDbf (undiagnosed BPD boyfriend):  Often when the “non” (that’s the person who does NOT have BPD traits) is going through intense emotions, the BPD partner will act out.  In my relationship, I was in deep grief over the sudden loss of my best friend.  My uBPDbf flew into a RAGE.  It felt like there simply wasn’t enough “room” for both of our feelings.  When HE wasn’t the focus of all of my attention, things fell apart.  I’ve done a TON of work, and things are SO MUCH better now.

SG-  if it feels like you’re always attending to his needs, that’s because you likely are...”walking on eggshells”... It’s wonderful that you’re seeing a T (therapist) .  Her continued support will be invaluable for you.  Has she recommended that you read “Stop Walking on Eggshells”?  We recommend that you read that book, which may help to clarify some things for you.

In spite of your Codependent tendencies, It sounds as if you’re reaching the point of “I’ve had it up to here”.  And I say “good for you!”  You seem to be putting some boundaries in place, and now the key is to enforce those boundaries.  Your boundaries represent YOUR values within the relationship.  It’s good that you’ve told him to see a therapist.  I’m hoping he’ll continue going...because 1 or 4 sessions will likely create little to no real difference in his behavior.

As far as your work goes, I am really sorry.  He put you in a very unfair position of feeling the need to defend yourself.  Especially considering he met you while you were working.  You do NOT have to justify the fact that you’ve got to support yourself financially and are choosing to complete your education.  Good for you!  Now that you’re taking some time off, is he expecting that you WON’T return to dancing?

SG - aside from his curt text messages to you, what other contact are you having with uBPDbf?  Are you talking by phone?  When was the last time he took you for a date?

Relationships with pwBPD (people with BPD) can be somewhat cyclical.  It sounds like he’s doing a bit of devaluation right now.  Minimizing the relationship... your “worth” to him...by these distant 4-word texts.  Try NOT to buy into that.  You are worth so MUCH more.  You are NONE of the bad names he’s ever called you.  Please know that.

This site is filled with amazing resources to read that will help you better understand the dynamics of your relationship.  In addition, there are communication tools to Reduce Conflict, teach you Validation skills (vital); stop using JADE (do NOT Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain); and to help you get out of the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).

You’ll “meet” many others here who understand exactly what you’re experiencing, so please stick around.

Nothing changes until something changes.  That change will begin with you.  I look forward to hearing from you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[secretgirl]

Hi Gemsforeyes! Thank you so much for being my first reply... this is so new to me and also exciting because I've found a place I feel I can share my true thoughts/feelings without judgment (which is very important to me/much appreciated).
I hope through my journey on this website I can also offer support to many others in these situations. It's not my first time with a Cluster B type but it IS my first time with a BPD individual... I've been mainly with narcissists before and covert narcissists (which was actually MUCH more hellish to endure than this guy imho). I've actually gotten MUCH better at spotting mainly overt narcissists and STAY AWAY ASAP before I get sucked in by their charm!
I think the main reason I stay with my ubpdbf (thx for the abbreviation explanations by the way!) is because I know that they can change if they're very willing to.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss also no one will EVER know the feelings of loss you're experiencing until they've experienced it themselves... and that's not to say they cant have sympathy but the best people I can relate to are those who have experienced it also.. and thank you for your condolences I appreciate it.. and you're right, there definitely never feels like there's room for both. I agree with your comments on seeking therapy for myself and also learning to grow stronger on my own as it will definitely help the r/s with a bpd and myself in general. I'm glad to hear (but very sorry also) I'm not the only one dealing with this issue...

Thank you for the book suggestion! I will read that soon... I have read one called "I hate you-Don't leave me" and also one called :"Talking to a loved one with BPD" which actually helped me understand what SET communication is... but I've yet to be able to actually USE it much during an argument due to my own insecurities/defensiveness.

I agree that one or four sessions probably and more likely DEFINITELY wont make a difference.. does your bpd partner see a therapist? When did you start noticing the change if they do?

As far as my work, my T agrees that it's unfair for him to "punish" me but because of his own insecurities etc. it probably wont end until he seeks help and learns acceptance... I think he's expecting I wont ever go back but the reality is I probably will because I must support myself somehow... and my continued studies... I DID tell him this though so he won't be surprised when I do go back but again, not sure how he will handle it. Which I am a bit scared of to be honest...

He took me on a date last weekend... we DO have great dates and VERY good times at times which is why I think I hold on... when he's happy, he can be SO loving, SO comforting, SO supportive, always attending to my needs etc, and he's a very good handyman etc. and loves to take me to the movies and dinners. He also loves cooking me breakfast... and buys me flowers occasionally. So it's not like hes always a bad guy (or I wouldn't have so much conflict with my own feelings). He did start talking to me ironically after I wrote this post (weird how they seem to have a weird bpd sixth sense). And he wrote apologizing and asking me how much time away I need... I said I didn't need much time away as much as him to agree that he KEEPS going to counseling and learns to manage his rage, and learns to identify his emotions and communicate them more effectively? I'm not sure if this is literally repeating the cycle though... how do I set the boundary here? I'm confused as to what a boundary even is sometimes because I feel my whole life as a codependent, I've never even really had any. I've just dealt with trying to please and having my boundaries (whichever few I made) crossed or challenged repeatedly until the day comes where I literally cant take no more and must go FULL NC (as much as it pains me).

The issue is mainly that he flies off the handle at tiny things that a "normal" person would laugh off or resolve quickly and actually get over it. I don't like using the term normal though because What is NORMAL? It's all about perception... he calls me not normal at times which offends me because it's usually when he criticizes my clothing etc. so I try and stay away from that term and also try not to say those things to him. I'd like to think overall I have never done anything to solicit the actions/words he says/does to me during arguments. Sometimes I wonder, where do we draw the line?

Thank you so much for all your kind words... and I will definitely read up on the FOG, and JADE and the other resources you mentioned... I think that will be a good start for me... I will also ask my therapist next week about these and how I can control my own sensitivities in terms of dealing with a bpd partner...


Sincerely,
SG.

[secretgirl]

Also, Gemsforeyes, I hope you are ok with the loss you endured... and if you ever want to talk about that , I am here for you .

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi secretgirl-

I am so glad you’ve joined our community.  This is a very safe space for expressing your thoughts and feelings; and on the very rare occasion that someone becomes “judgy”, they’re usually called out for it. 

Do you journal?  I found that during periods when my emotions were heightened (either negatively or positively), journaling helped me immensely.  And that essentially became a running narrative of my relationship with my uBPDbf, and ALL of my feelings.  Stream of consciousness stuff.  VERY helpful to see the periods of love bombing (I did it, too), devaluation and ghosting when he’d travel abroad.  The ghosting hasn’t happened in years now.  My journaling also made me realize that I have some pretty black and white thinking... and I confirmed with my T earlier this year that I have (had) a few BPD traits.  It’s not surprising considering some things from my younger years.

And yes, reading the posts of others is extremely helpful and enlightening... you will likely have some real “AHA” moments through what others have experienced.  Allow yourself to learn from others’ experiences.  No need to feel ALL the pain firsthand.  That’s my philosophy.

SG, I too have codependent traits and I’m working HARD to curb those.  It’s not easy, but the first step is acknowledgment... so almost there?  I am horrified when I think back to things I did for certain people when I was married (bad NARC).  I truly believe once we get a grip on this, we begin to restore our self-respect.  What do you think?

I’ve come to believe that many of us enter and stay in relationships with disordered or emotionally abusive people because of certain unresolved wounds WE have.  The turnaround in my relationship really took place when I began to face and heal MY wounds head on.  It’s not that my BF has changed so much, it’s that “I” have changed.  And healed.  And regained my strength and sense of self.  And he has responded.

He also now KNOWS what I went through in my marriage.  And since that information did not come from me (he was told by male friends); he has enormous empathy around what I endured.  And blind HATRED toward my exH.

My uBPDbf is not currently in T.  He went a few years ago when I had a discussion with him regarding his rage.  And told him he HAD to see a T about that... that it was making me sick.  My anxiety was through the roof due to him.  So he went.  There is something coming up later this fall; and depending on how he handles it, I may need to insist on therapy again.  But we have not had a tiff (thank GOD) in over 4 months.  Sunday is our 6th anniversary.

Thank you so very much for your kind words about my heart sister.  She’s been gone since 2/2018 and I miss her everyday.  My loss of her was a pivotal point in my overall healing and my relationship with BF.  I guess she figured she’d better lead me to wellness now that she was an angel... because my thoughts were either “do this or die...”. It was a bad time.

I’m heartened to hear that your bf is taking you on dates and desires to treat you well.  Have y’all separated or broken up at all during the 7 months of your relationship?  If so, how do the breakups and coming back together play out?

Regarding boundaries, I began with, ok my uBPDbf CAN get angry as appropriate, but he is NOT allowed to call me names.  I can not recover from that.  I am NOT, nor have I EVER been an a-hole.  He knows that and cannot call me that.  Second, again around his RAGE.  Sure he can yell...but he’s first GOT to clarify that it’s NOT about me if he’s angry about his NARC mom.  And he does that for me.  I can now ask why he’s really angry.  I am NOT his mother nor am I like her in any way.  So most of my boundary setting has been to limit his cruelty and its affect on me.  I am OFF the anxiety meds.

Regarding the codependency, here’s something that has worked for me.  Before answering demanding “requests”... you take a pause... take some quiet, and ask yourself...”is this GOOD for me?”; “Do I reeeaallly want or NEED to do this / say yes to this?”;  “Why did she / he ask me?”  I think we get ourselves into “trouble” because of the pressure we feel to answer right away!  And under that pressure, there’s the coD pressure to say YES.  I truly believe that when you step away, you break your “trance” and better serve your needs.

And secretgirl...WHY by “NORMAL”?  What do you want to work on the most in your relationship?

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[secretgirl]

Hi Gemsforeyes,
thank you again for responding so quickly! I appreciate it... and I'm glad judgmental people are called out. heaven forbid any of us on this site need MORE judgment in our lives haha.

Thank you, my one friend recommended journaling also... and that sounds like a very good thing to do. I will start doing that almost every morning now to make it a habit! I think you're right... I may have some traits of a few things... I'm not surprised to hear you have SOME bpd traits as I feel we kind of all have some bpd traits at times... do you feel your emotions are like that of a bpd?
The one thing I tend to relate to with bpd the most is not the black and white thinking but moreso the emotional rollercoaster part. Like when I feel happy, I can feel SO HAPPY and when I'm sad, I feel TERRIBLE. or takes me days to figure out what to do... but my T said it could be due to my parents passing.. she did say something interesting once though based off my upbringing/life was that she thinks that I have some HISTRIONIC traits. Which is why I lack the aggression etc of a BPD but also show some signs of it that are similar but in a different way. She said I can easily ditch when I don't have attention at all times and that's similar to bpd in a way. its the devaluation etc. but I don't go to the lengths they do I guess because my core is still a Codependent so I'll always put their pain above my own. So the journaling is a good idea, thank you!.

I am VERY sorry about your Narc husband... I've dated my fair share of Narcs also and now it's almost like they have clearer signs to me than BPD's. They're SO abusive and manipulative that it's scary and always for their own gains. So I feel for you... I really really do... it's so hard were you married to this person long? I remember my narc ex being very abusive physically and emotionally. And although my ubpdbf sometimes says mean things during fights, hes never abusive and I can sense hes truly sorry after. Almost like he punishes himself for saying it and doesn't know why he said it ?

I agree that I have wounds 100% and thank you for being vulnerable enough to share some of yours with me also. It's hard to be strong and independent when those wounds are still there... I also relied on my dad a lot financially too not just emotionally because we were raised in an oldschool Euro home. My mom was a stay at home mom and dad was the breadwinner. So my counselor said some part of me craves that and ITS OK to want that but its NOT ok to deal with ppls abuse in order to attain it.

Yes I agree that my ubpdbf hates my abusive exes too just like yours. and that's HOW they're different from narcs as well... because they FEEL the pain you've felt. It's just I guess they have a hard time controlling their own emotions?

Happy anniversary for this sunday for you two! will you do anything fun? and I'm hoping whatever you mentioned later on will go well... otherwise I'm here for you and we are here for you... if you want to talk about it, you can.
I'm assuming your ubpdbf is very high functioning?

Yes... I've gone through that depression to of do or die... and it's an awful place to be at. So I'm glad you're strong... and still strong and able to offer advice/support to others. I believe that shows a great deal of strength to be vulnerable and empathetic.

My ubpdbf and I haven't broken up before in the 7 months although he's tried to ditch me multiple times. The FIRST time he got MAD and then ignored me and I was FREAKING out because his drive home from my place is far and he left late... and Ive lost my parents so I'm terrified sometimes of losing others (the same abandonment fear) and next morning he texted me back being like "why were u freaking out last night so much? im home" and I got SO ANGRY and started crying my eyes out saying how he has no respect for what ive been through and how he could have at least texted me when hes home... and he apologized then and I guess realized how much I care. He told me no one has ever cared about him that much before and that hes not used to it. or not used to having to tell someone when hes home. But now does it all the time. Our second fight was about my work and he almost ditched me again and I wrote a huge letter saying goodbye and my farewells and he replied with "I'm not breaking up with you?" and I told him usually when people ghost im assuming theyre done... THEN I started to see the pattern of ghosting a bit without closure/coming back. After that we were good actually for a good while I'd say like 3 months... then we got into a massive fight where he said some hurtful things... I think hes somewhat of a quiet borderline too at times because it seems he holds things in for a LONG time then when an argument happens he explodes and I have no idea where half the things he says comes from... and that's when I cried and we hungup the phone and I texted him a poem I wrote for him. and he didn't reply to my poem for one week. I felt so vulnerable sending it and it really hurt me especially after the mean things he said on the phone.
then he texted me asking why I didn't contact him like I usually do? and I replied because im notgoing to reward bad behavior. and since then we had the four fights I mentioned in my first post here.
We talked last night and we both laughed at how we are both a bit PLEASE READed up. and he promised me he would go to therapy continuously. so that eased my mind a bit but yeah some things need to be clarified also/boundaries set. It's like you said... he cannot call me names or say hurtful things. I cant recover from that either... words really hurt me. and I don't forget them. My ubpdbf tends to accuse me of cheating/wanting other guys to fill his void. that seems to be his GO TO during an argument which really peeves me because its like I do SO much for him and feel unappreciated when he says that? (codependent behavior).
I think I need to create a set of rules also for us similar to that... I'm thinking maybe if he cant calm down/not yell for me to leave the conversation for a bit? have you suggested this one?

Thank you for the tips on codependency... I am trying for sure to think those things now and ask myself those questions. as it comes naturally for me to do things for others. and I forget about myself/my happiness slowly over time.
Ive realized I don't want "normal" anyways because they wont understand me either. LOL
Ive read this interesting thing on QUORA about codep's and bpd's and why theyre a bad mix and I sent it to my bf because its EXACTLY how we are /why we fight. It said that unless we can both control our insecurities we bring out the worst in each other because codep's want consistency (100% ME) and when its not there (because a bpd is rarely consistent), we get upset and feel needy or unappreciated and this causes the BPD to not understand why we are so upset and therefore lash out because they feel like THEY aren't good enough and sets off a trigger.

So I brought it up to my ubpdbf and he laughed and said "yep that's exactly us babe." So I mentioned to him to also think about what his triggers are? Or what he wants me to say/do when hes having an episode?

Gemsforeyes, you really do have a good heart, thank you for chatting to me ... it's helping me immensely.
SG.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi secretgirl,
I just saw your thread here and I’m so sorry about the loss of your parents.

So you’re paying out of state tuition. That’s a major financial burden and it’s tough to make enough money with most jobs. I can see how irritating it would be to have met your boyfriend through your work and then have him criticize you about it.

What are you studying?

I too have difficulties with using SET—my husband spots it a mile away. What I have found useful is not being invalidating. It’s amazing at times what he feels is invalidating—if I mention that I think a movie was stupid and it was one he liked, then he can think I’m calling him stupid.   I’m learning how either not to go there or how now to keep digging the hole deeper.

I would disagree with you about not having boundaries. You can spot narcissists now (an impressive skill!) and with your work, I’m sure you maintain boundaries. It’s just generalizing that ability to your romantic relationship. Here’s more reading material Setting Boundaries

Best, Cat

[secretgirl]

Hi secretgirl,
I just saw your thread here and I’m so sorry about the loss of your parents.

So you’re paying out of state tuition. That’s a major financial burden and it’s tough to make enough money with most jobs. I can see how irritating it would be to have met your boyfriend through your work and then have him criticize you about it.

What are you studying?

I too have difficulties with using SET—my husband spots it a mile away. What I have found useful is not being invalidating. It’s amazing at times what he feels is invalidating—if I mention that I think a movie was stupid and it was one he liked, then he can think I’m calling him stupid.   I’m learning how either not to go there or how now to keep digging the hole deeper.

I would disagree with you about not having boundaries. You can spot narcissists now (an impressive skill!) and with your work, I’m sure you maintain boundaries. It’s just generalizing that ability to your romantic relationship. Here’s more reading material Setting Boundaries

Best, Cat

Hi cat ! Thanks for your response! And thanks for the condolences it definitely is not easy I miss them terribly.
yes it is tough financially but I make it work somehow! But I agree it is unfair for my ubpdbf to criticize and also give me ultimatums where my boundaries have to be very strong .

I will read the links you give me but sometimes I’m not going to lie I don’t have the patience like now for instance he was idealizing me the last few days after we took a break and he saw his counsellor and again a re occurring issue came up today and he brushed me off and then I insisted to say when he says those thugs it make me feel like I’m annoying him so I won’t keep texting and that he has to either alter his behaviour or he has to be specific with me as to how I should alter it so it won’t happen again of course he went into offensive mode and said the exact same thing again I’m like you didn’t respond to my text please read it and respond what you would like to do y solve this ... then he called me st the gym and starts yelling over the phone telling me how HE is confused as to why IM mad ... in like in not mad I’m asking you specifically what you want me to do then he brings up unrelated things and starts yelling and I just said I will not reply until he calms down and stops yelling and saying mean things. Was this my first boundary re enforced ? Yay? Lol

[secretgirl]

Oh and I am studying neuroscience ! Thank you for taking interest in my studies and although it seems like it covers a lot of these disorders , it in fact , doesn’t.

[Witz_End]

Hey SG... caught you on the other thread, but noticed and took the time to read yours here.  A few thoughts...

Hi, so I met my bpd guy working as an exotic dancer ... things were wonderful for the first bit, we talked every day all day, and then the arguments started... mainly about my work...

He knew up front.  You did the right thing double checking he was good with it.  And, obviously, there's what others have pointed out... he met you while you were working!  

My guess is this:  non-BPD's a lot of times overlook things or see them as no big deal during a honeymoon phase, but how much more so would it be for a pwBPD and their black and white thinking?  I know my wife sees very different when in honeymoon phase.

He probably thought, in that mode, he could handle it.  As he fell further into commitment/love and the honeymoon phase (which sounds like it was short) phased out, his perception would have changed.  Those shifts of a pwBPD, but...

With their fear of abandonment, I kinda wonder if *any* pwBPD could handle a relationship with someone in a role where part of the job is to flirt and be a center of attention to other men - especially if that's how their relationship started (the insecurity of the same happening with someone else).  From their perspective, I would imagine it'd be murder on them.

Please don't read any judgment in that... far from it.  There are aspects of my own lifestyle people wouldn't agree with and I've worked on staff at swingers' club.  It's just an offering of what I imagine to be the BPD perspective.

But, it seems there is an incongruence there where the work became a trigger for him, which I imagine is why you stopped.

Do you miss it and would you go back to it?  But, obviously tied to that, where would it sit in your priorities with reference to the relationship?

Is it a sacrifice you'd be willing to make, but... and this is key... could you forgive him if you did?  Or would there be bitterness held against him going forward?  Is it something you could let go?

My wife's ex met her while she was in the Army and married her.  But, he threw fits over her going to work and being surrounded by predominantly guys and accused her falsely almost daily of affairs... until she got fed up and went ahead and slept with a fellow soldier... and then later left him and married me after we met.  Self fulfilling prophesy, really.

I suggested that I cant go on like this unless he sees a therapist.

SO he went once to the counselor and I'm not sure what he told the therapist but it turns out he told me during a fight recently that his therapist thinks IM the one with BPD, and that his therapist told him not to tell me... which I think is either a lie, or he painted the picture so the opposite that his poor therapist believed his sob story.

Either way, I had shown FULL ON text messages to my own therapist of how we argue and she agreed with me that I DO NOT have bpd whatsoever (becayse I felt like I was going crazy for a second...) and that he definitely seems like he does but I cant change someone if theyre unwilling to see a problem themselves...

I told him unless he sees his counselor 3 mores times at least, I don't want him talking or seeing me.

Then I told him what my therapist said about the things he said during fights, and said that he needs things to work on, and I could work onbeing more patient etc...

It's really difficult to get pwBPD's into therapy, but a trick that's probably bigger is for them to do so with real intentions of working and opening up to trusting the therapist.  They don't always let on, but they know their bumps and bruises are there and often carry around guilt and shame... even though they'll be damned if they let anyone see it, most of the time.  They'll also do everything in their power to avoid facing it - hence projection, victim mode, and a lot of other traits, not to mention a reason why a lot of therapists used to avoid working with them.

If you had a fear of abandonment and the person you loved said essentially "therapy or I'm leaving", there would probably be a lot of emotional turmoil and you may go to therapy to avoid the loss.  Or, as a pwBPD, you may scorch the earth and the relationship to avoid it.  But, especially bearing in mind the last paragraph, would you honestly work and open up once there?

It is important for him to be there, for you and for himself and his growth.  But, there has to be the willingness to work and that is something that can never be forced.

Something else that probably interferes with that is the pattern I see where it seems you to are pitting therapist opinion/diagnosis against therapist opinion/diagnosis.  If you're using things your therapist says to try to force him into seeing things, his natural response is to enlist his therapist as his "expert ally."  The two therapists kinda become weapons or tools in the struggle when that happens... "my therapist says this..."  "yeah, well, MY therapist says that..."

It may be more healthy to spend the time with the therapists working on yourselves as individuals as a focus.  As long as he sees a need to use his therapist to defend himself against you or your therapist's opinions, it will interfere with honest work.

Does he genuinely want to work with therapist?  Do you think he's willing to open up?  If not, what can you do to support his feeling willing or able or not do that could interfere with it?

[secretgirl]

Hey SG... caught you on the other thread, but noticed and took the time to read yours here.  A few thoughts...

He knew up front.  You did the right thing double checking he was good with it.  And, obviously, there's what others have pointed out... he met you while you were working!  

My guess is this:  non-BPD's a lot of times overlook things or see them as no big deal during a honeymoon phase, but how much more so would it be for a pwBPD and their black and white thinking?  I know my wife sees very different when in honeymoon phase.

He probably thought, in that mode, he could handle it.  As he fell further into commitment/love and the honeymoon phase (which sounds like it was short) phased out, his perception would have changed.  Those shifts of a pwBPD, but...

With their fear of abandonment, I kinda wonder if *any* pwBPD could handle a relationship with someone in a role where part of the job is to flirt and be a center of attention to other men - especially if that's how their relationship started (the insecurity of the same happening with someone else).  From their perspective, I would imagine it'd be murder on them.

Please don't read any judgment in that... far from it.  There are aspects of my own lifestyle people wouldn't agree with and I've worked on staff at swingers' club.  It's just an offering of what I imagine to be the BPD perspective.

But, it seems there is an incongruence there where the work became a trigger for him, which I imagine is why you stopped.

Do you miss it and would you go back to it?  But, obviously tied to that, where would it sit in your priorities with reference to the relationship?

Is it a sacrifice you'd be willing to make, but... and this is key... could you forgive him if you did?  Or would there be bitterness held against him going forward?  Is it something you could let go?

My wife's ex met her while she was in the Army and married her.  But, he threw fits over her going to work and being surrounded by predominantly guys and accused her falsely almost daily of affairs... until she got fed up and went ahead and slept with a fellow soldier... and then later left him and married me after we met.  Self fulfilling prophesy, really.

It's really difficult to get pwBPD's into therapy, but a trick that's probably bigger is for them to do so with real intentions of working and opening up to trusting the therapist.  They don't always let on, but they know their bumps and bruises are there and often carry around guilt and shame... even though they'll be damned if they let anyone see it, most of the time.  They'll also do everything in their power to avoid facing it - hence projection, victim mode, and a lot of other traits, not to mention a reason why a lot of therapists used to avoid working with them.

If you had a fear of abandonment and the person you loved said essentially "therapy or I'm leaving", there would probably be a lot of emotional turmoil and you may go to therapy to avoid the loss.  Or, as a pwBPD, you may scorch the earth and the relationship to avoid it.  But, especially bearing in mind the last paragraph, would you honestly work and open up once there?

It is important for him to be there, for you and for himself and his growth.  But, there has to be the willingness to work and that is something that can never be forced.

Something else that probably interferes with that is the pattern I see where it seems you to are pitting therapist opinion/diagnosis against therapist opinion/diagnosis.  If you're using things your therapist says to try to force him into seeing things, his natural response is to enlist his therapist as his "expert ally."  The two therapists kinda become weapons or tools in the struggle when that happens... "my therapist says this..."  "yeah, well, MY therapist says that..."

It may be more healthy to spend the time with the therapists working on yourselves as individuals as a focus.  As long as he sees a need to use his therapist to defend himself against you or your therapist's opinions, it will interfere with honest work.

Does he genuinely want to work with therapist?  Do you think he's willing to open up?  If not, what can you do to support his feeling willing or able or not do that could interfere with it?

Hi Witz End thanks for replying!

Yes I agree he genuinely knew but I did stop FOR him as well which he does not see. He tells himself I stopped because I wanted to and because of school which is partly true... I do not miss it at all. It's actually one of those things when he accuses me of being addicted to it etc, it hurts me even more because I only did it for financial reasons and because my parents are gone and I did not want to quit my studies to work four minimum wage jobs in order to live pay cheque to pay cheque. So It was my personal choice to sacrifice my happiness in a way doing my job in order to keep myself in school... sometimes he empathizes with me SO strongly and we both cry together and he is so sorry and he says he understands and other times he lashes out. I did ask my T about it also and she said that it would be hard for ANY guy to deal with it , let alone a bpd, so she said I have to see it from his pov as well , which I do. and I really really do sympathize AND empathize but it's my income. That's the REALITY of it. Eventually, I'm going to have to go back to support myself/save more money for school. IF I have a new career with my studies, I am totally fine giving it up 100%. But while I'm in school, it's unfair of him to ask me to quit so I guess it's a loss I must risk unfortunately. I'm at a crossroad with him at that point but at the end of the day, if I don't take care of myself, who will?
He hasn't compensated me or offered he says he wants to so we will see what happens with that. But I also hate the fact that someone else is supporting me. I am very independent. I'm scared of it being used against me as a control tool because he HAS criticized how I spend my money too sometimes when he's devaluing me.

It's a tough one ... but you're right with the therapist thing. I thought about it too and it has come to a point where I know it's wrong. So instead of saying "my therapist said... about you" I say "my therapist said... about ME." That has seemed to help.

We resolved a fight yesterday which was GREAT it was our first accomplishment and later in the evening we talkd on the phone and it felt like we are slowly becoming a TEAM as opposed to You vs. Me. I shared some of my stories more and my past and what my T thinks of ME. and he shared what his T thinks of him. He said he's sorry that he lashes out but she told he hasn't learned to socialize properly since he was a kid because of his physically and emotionally abusive childhood. I guess at the end of the day, I'm glad to have this forum, and you guys to talk to... so THANK YOU.
It's helped me immensely calm down also and realize it's not the end of the world if things with him aren't working out today or tomorrow or whenever. At the end of the day, like you said, it's me I have to work on, and my boundaries.

I also watched a codependency video someone posted on here and saw myself as actually being somewhat controlling too which is why I guess sometimes he lashes out that I'm trying to control him and to stop telling him what to do? So I try to pick up on my own issues/cues as well. It's funny how sometimes the weakness in others brings out the weakness in ourselves. I never saw my codependency as controlling but I guess it is! Yikes better work on that one myself. I know what I'll be discussing with my T today. LOL

[Witz_End]

He tells himself I stopped because I wanted to and because of school which is partly true... I do not miss it at all.

There's two sides to his coin, remember.  One side probably doesn't want to see you were considering him.  He might be more inclined to hold onto that view as long as he wants to hold it against you, but don't be surprised if he pulls a 180 and recognizes it.  A part of him probably does.

One of the traps I know I fall into is forgetting that it's not as simple as "she believes x and doesn't believe y."  So, I try to emphasize y so she'll see, which leads to her digging in about x.  I learned that if I don't push and just tell her / show her y and leave it at that, she'll come around to show she recognized y all along.  Sometimes it just takes the patience of waiting out the dark sunglasses of devaluation that only show x.

But, let me come back to this here... and you do not have to answer, especially out here on a public board...

What did you like and what will you miss?  Society has a lot to say about what you should feel about the job, but be true and honest with yourself.  At a minimum, it can help with exploration (what is it about that part of things... why this, why that...), even really open exploration with your T.

I did ask my T about it also and she said that it would be hard for ANY guy to deal with it , let alone a bpd, so she said I have to see it from his pov as well , which I do.

I think "any" is an exaggeration or a projection or her own expectations or values.  It's true of most and it'd be a healthy thing to consider where guys who don't feel that way are coming from to weed out those with potential red flags.  But, not every guy thinks the same.

With BPD, though, yes.  Very true.

Eventually, I'm going to have to go back to support myself/save more money for school. IF I have a new career with my studies, I am totally fine giving it up 100%. But while I'm in school, it's unfair of him to ask me to quit so I guess it's a loss I must risk unfortunately.

I asked the above about what you did like or will miss for a reason.  I may be wrong, but can be pretty intuitive and the gut I get here is there is more to this than on the surface.  

What is really pulling you back?  Again, I may be wrong, but it feels very much like you're using school as an "acceptable" reason where there is more to it underneath.  You also understand his perspective and how it clashes with his deep seated fears, but are holding onto "it's unfair of him to ask" for a reason inside.  What is that deeper reason?

I know I'm being really probative and I hope it doesn't come across too invasive.  I also don't these questions for response, especially if they are invasive.  The intent really is to help, with the thought that in order to let go of holding it against him, it's helpful to understand what and why you are holding it against him.

It does feel unfair and there are ways that it is.  You do have a right to your choices and independence and you were thrown a curve when he couldn't handle it like he may have believed he could.

I also watched a codependency video someone posted on here and saw myself as actually being somewhat controlling too which is why I guess sometimes he lashes out that I'm trying to control him and to stop telling him what to do? So I try to pick up on my own issues/cues as well. It's funny how sometimes the weakness in others brings out the weakness in ourselves. I never saw my codependency as controlling but I guess it is! Yikes better work on that one myself. I know what I'll be discussing with my T today. LOL

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

My mother was very controlling.  I developed maladaptive responses to that.  As you can imagine, those come out with my uBPDw in response to the stifled feeling and the controlling NPD traits that I understand are common with high functioning BPD.

That becomes my own baggage and responsibility in things.  Not long ago (and it's in a post somewhere here), she launched into a two hour critique of every example she could throw at me to try to show me I am NPD.

A lot of those examples were skewed through devalued perspective and there are things that strongly clash with NPD as a diagnosis.  But...

She is not completely wrong.  I *do* have maladaptive tendencies from childhood at play.  I *do* have enough of an ability to read and understand human tendencies to be able to use those in bad ways if I don't watch myself.

You are spot on when you say that one person's weakness in a relationship can bring out the other's and B/NPD can very easily pull out those traits, like a dragging down into the mud.

I genuinely offered to her that I will explore personality disorder possibilities with a therapist, even though I see it as limited maladaptive tendencies.  When it comes down to it... even if I don't have it, can't it only help to examine it and maybe even treat it as if it is so?

[secretgirl]

There's two sides to his coin, remember.  One side probably doesn't want to see you were considering him.  He might be more inclined to hold onto that view as long as he wants to hold it against you, but don't be surprised if he pulls a 180 and recognizes it.  A part of him probably does.

One of the traps I know I fall into is forgetting that it's not as simple as "she believes x and doesn't believe y."  So, I try to emphasize y so she'll see, which leads to her digging in about x.  I learned that if I don't push and just tell her / show her y and leave it at that, she'll come around to show she recognized y all along.  Sometimes it just takes the patience of waiting out the dark sunglasses of devaluation that only show x.

But, let me come back to this here... and you do not have to answer, especially out here on a public board...

What did you like and what will you miss?  Society has a lot to say about what you should feel about the job, but be true and honest with yourself.  At a minimum, it can help with exploration (what is it about that part of things... why this, why that...), even really open exploration with your T.

I think "any" is an exaggeration or a projection or her own expectations or values.  It's true of most and it'd be a healthy thing to consider where guys who don't feel that way are coming from to weed out those with potential red flags.  But, not every guy thinks the same.

With BPD, though, yes.  Very true.

I asked the above about what you did like or will miss for a reason.  I may be wrong, but can be pretty intuitive and the gut I get here is there is more to this than on the surface.  

What is really pulling you back?  Again, I may be wrong, but it feels very much like you're using school as an "acceptable" reason where there is more to it underneath.  You also understand his perspective and how it clashes with his deep seated fears, but are holding onto "it's unfair of him to ask" for a reason inside.  What is that deeper reason?

I know I'm being really probative and I hope it doesn't come across too invasive.  I also don't these questions for response, especially if they are invasive.  The intent really is to help, with the thought that in order to let go of holding it against him, it's helpful to understand what and why you are holding it against him.

It does feel unfair and there are ways that it is.  You do have a right to your choices and independence and you were thrown a curve when he couldn't handle it like he may have believed he could.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

My mother was very controlling.  I developed maladaptive responses to that.  As you can imagine, those come out with my uBPDw in response to the stifled feeling and the controlling NPD traits that I understand are common with high functioning BPD.

That becomes my own baggage and responsibility in things.  Not long ago (and it's in a post somewhere here), she launched into a two hour critique of every example she could throw at me to try to show me I am NPD.

A lot of those examples were skewed through devalued perspective and there are things that strongly clash with NPD as a diagnosis.  But...

She is not completely wrong.  I *do* have maladaptive tendencies from childhood at play.  I *do* have enough of an ability to read and understand human tendencies to be able to use those in bad ways if I don't watch myself.

You are spot on when you say that one person's weakness in a relationship can bring out the other's and B/NPD can very easily pull out those traits, like a dragging down into the mud.

I genuinely offered to her that I will explore personality disorder possibilities with a therapist, even though I see it as limited maladaptive tendencies.  When it comes down to it... even if I don't have it, can't it only help to examine it and maybe even treat it as if it is so?

Yes WitzEnd, I believe you are right in the fact that I need to stop pushing "x" until they see "y" themselves... I guess this is part of my somewhat controlling codep. behavior... like "why cant you just see it damn it, see what ive done for you" hahaha ohhh the joys LOL

To answer your question honestly, at the beginning the attention/glam was nice and of course makes you feel beautiful but after a while, you feel used and see the reality of some peoples lives... it does help me be more empathetic of others' situations (unhappy marriages/lonely etc)  but then there's another part of me that becomes bitter and jaded to an extent. So it's not so much that I will miss that, it's the aspect of me missing the small amount of time I have to spend to gain that $$. So in a way, for me I TRULY genuinely believe it is the financial aspect solely driving me to return to it.
Why would I work 8 hours in a regular job making the same as 1 hour in THIS job when I can make the same and also spend the remainder 7 hours studying? That's my logic.
It's honestly purely selfish on my part because school for me is difficult and the only time I was truly happy was when my dad supported me financially and I was able to study full time with NO work on my end. So I guess I'm trying to simulate that situation as best as possible?

At first, I was hiding behind the glam aspect but now that I've given up spending money on my looks and live more within my means, it's still the logical solution though for me. Why spend 8 hours working "X JOB" when I could work 1 hour in "Y JOB" and make the same. *shrugs*.

That's totally something my ubpdbf has hurled at me before too "YOURE the one with BPD cant YOU SEE that?" It's funny because sometimes the things he hurls at me during arguments are actually things HE does. LOL gotta love the projections. I'm sorry she said those things to you though... I do empathize because even as we try to make light of it later on, it still DOES hurt and DOES cut us deep in the moments... so I am very empathetic towards your feelings at these moments. It's good that you're self aware.
Did you end up seeing a T? Did it help? Did you get a diagnosis?

My T doesn't really believe in diagnosing she just wants to help which I agree with and that's fine. She did, however, tell me that I don't exhibit low functioning BPD typical traits & that I am definitely a codependent amongst a couple other things . She did ask me about histrionic PD because of my job ironically and I can see a bit of it in myself but as I said, I've self reflected and come to the conclusion if someone were to just hand me money like my dad did back in the day to accommodate my school situ, I would drop my job in a heartbeat LOL So I guess moreso for me, the attention/glamour of it all has worn off.
I am not surprised sometimes, sadly, that lots of women in these industries fall to drugs because once the whole glam/attention phase passes, you're left with brokenness and pieces you must fix/heal for yourself because putting up a façade continuously breaks away at a part of your soul, and once that façade comes off, it's almost like your left with the RAW intense feelings of emptiness/objectification. (At least from my point of view especially as a codep.). I think as a codep. it helped make my job easier a bit because I kept telling myself I was HELPING customers etc. man, the unhealthy things we do to deal sometimes. There are, however, women who ACTUALLY enjoy the job or any sort of job in the sex industry. So I'm not trying to paint it ALL black For some, it's their lifelong careers because of the genuine enjoyment they get out of it. But I guess, that's not me. I've been using it as something to fill my father's void. 

[Witz_End]

To answer your question honestly, at the beginning the attention/glam was nice and of course makes you feel beautiful but after a while, you feel used and see the reality of some peoples lives... it does help me be more empathetic of others' situations (unhappy marriages/lonely etc)  but then there's another part of me that becomes bitter and jaded to an extent. So it's not so much that I will miss that, it's the aspect of me missing the small amount of time I have to spend to gain that $$

That's what I was sensing right there, then, especially as you dig deeper on it and talk about the being supported by your father.

So, you seem to see it as:  the facade damaged you and the help you provided was limited more to superficial band-aid rather than meaningful help for others, making it not really worth the sacrifice to yourself.  Is that right?

I've dealt with a little bit of the same sort of thing with my wife as far as the time / $.  I work through the night Fri and Sun nights doing work that is not really meaningful or fulfilling, but it pays the same as a lot of unskilled work would for a full time week.  It frees me to handle other priorities and have more time during the week, but she hates my being absent two nights a week and doesn't like the "rain or shine" *every* weekend aspect, which does make it difficult to go anywhere for a weekend.

Add on top of that that the company owner is a good, nice guy, but has frustrations dealing with him related more to him not thinking than any I'll intent that my wife hates so he and the job are painted black more often than not.

I don't see it as a long term, but see it as something that works for now and has its upsides that fit at the moment.  But, I struggle with her some over it and the need to have the time freed up, which also opens school possibilities for me - something I'd think she'd understand, being back in school herself right now and knowing how much of her time it takes.

It was worse when I was also working Sat nights at the club, which meant staying after close to shut the place down and being gone most of the night that night as well.  I'll admit I really didn't like the  being gone three nights a weekend either, but I took a leave of absence from the club a few months ago and if I return, I'll only do it for a weekend or two a month.

I have other thoughts.  May have to save for later or maybe better via PM since they spin off.

[Witz_End]

Crappy writing...

Add on top of that that the company owner is a good, nice guy, but there are frustrations dealing with him my wife hates so he and the job are painted black more often than not.  They're more along the lines of his not thinking or considering than anything ill intended.

[secretgirl]

That's what I was sensing right there, then, especially as you dig deeper on it and talk about the being supported by your father.

So, you seem to see it as:  the facade damaged you and the help you provided was limited more to superficial band-aid rather than meaningful help for others, making it not really worth the sacrifice to yourself.  Is that right?

I've dealt with a little bit of the same sort of thing with my wife as far as the time / $.  I work through the night Fri and Sun nights doing work that is not really meaningful or fulfilling, but it pays the same as a lot of unskilled work would for a full time week.  It frees me to handle other priorities and have more time during the week, but she hates my being absent two nights a week and doesn't like the "rain or shine" *every* weekend aspect, which does make it difficult to go anywhere for a weekend.

Add on top of that that the company owner is a good, nice guy, but has frustrations dealing with him related more to him not thinking than any I'll intent that my wife hates so he and the job are painted black more often than not.

I don't see it as a long term, but see it as something that works for now and has its upsides that fit at the moment.  But, I struggle with her some over it and the need to have the time freed up, which also opens school possibilities for me - something I'd think she'd understand, being back in school herself right now and knowing how much of her time it takes.

It was worse when I was also working Sat nights at the club, which meant staying after close to shut the place down and being gone most of the night that night as well.  I'll admit I really didn't like the  being gone three nights a weekend either, but I took a leave of absence from the club a few months ago and if I return, I'll only do it for a weekend or two a month.

I have other thoughts.  May have to save for later or maybe better via PM since they spin off.

That is right Witz End, very right.

Oh dear then you definitely know exactly what I'm talking about.. it's like once they see something as "bad" in their minds, any trigger related to that makes the rage come out. It's unfortunate too because you're just trying to get by and help BOTH of you with the financial support which I'm totally aware of. It's exactly like my situation in a sense... I'm just trying to help myself get by... and especially without my ubpdbf not offering me any help (even keeping his eye for similar income jobs?), doesn't seem fair to me. But alas, here we are, and we have to learn to cope and deal somehow.

It's good you are taking a break from the club for your own piece of mind also, and I'm sure even though your current weekend job is painted black, she does see the time taken off the club job , I'm certain of it. I know even though my ubpdbf rages and says mean things during his rage episodes, he does say sorry later and is SOMETIMES self aware of what he says (sometimes he can't remember, almost like a blackout?).
I know the frustrations though... that's mainly what got me onto here just for the support and strength that sometimes I'm not getting from my own partner because of the lack of self-awareness and insight. Plus, I will admit, it also helps keep ME in check and promote my own self-awareness sometimes in certain situations with my bf.

There's always TWO to tango right? I keep reminding myself of this... feel free to PM me whenever
Know that you're doing the best you can, and regardless of whatever bpd rage anyone has against us, all we can do is our best. If the intention in our actions is good, then we shouldn't feel guilty for it.

[Witz_End]

I know even though my ubpdbf rages and says mean things during his rage episodes, he does say sorry later and is SOMETIMES self aware of what he says (sometimes he can't remember, almost like a blackout?).

He apologizes?  How'd you work that trick out?  

I joke about it, but actually she has gotten better about apologizing and has been in a more steady "neutral" mindset for about a week now where she is recognizing things as two-sided and exploring what she sees as narcissistic tendencies in herself as well.  I really applaud her willingness to do so, so gotta recognize that here.  It's a rare thing and who knows how long it will last.

But, yes... the amnesia.  There's actually a thread on it somewhere in the knowledge section here.  The really screwed up thing is that I've experienced it myself where the fights get to me enough that I actually "forget" them in my mind, at least until something jogs my memory.  It's a really weird thing, because I'll remember we fought yesterday or a couple days before, but I draw a blank when I try to remember what it was about or what was said.

Plus, I will admit, it also helps keep ME in check and promote my own self-awareness sometimes in certain situations with my bf.

We all need that sometimes.  It can be too easy to be dragged down into the muck.

[Stillhopeful4]

I'm not sure what he told the therapist but it turns out he told me during a fight recently that his therapist thinks IM the one with BPD, and that his therapist told him not to tell me... is what leads me to believe hes bpd even moreso).

Hi Secretgirl,

My uBPDw's T told her the same about me 5 years ago.  I think it's part of how they project.  So know you aren't alone in this.

As far as the texting, try not to get too hung up on it.  You replied to him so you aren't shutting down on him.  You can try and validate his feelings about it.  That might help him.  Please keep posting and tell us a little more about specific situations.

SH4

[secretgirl]

Hi Secretgirl,

My uBPDw's T told her the same about me 5 years ago.  I think it's part of how they project.  So know you aren't alone in this.

As far as the texting, try not to get too hung up on it.  You replied to him so you aren't shutting down on him.  You can try and validate his feelings about it.  That might help him.  Please keep posting and tell us a little more about specific situations.

SH4

Hi SH4,
Wow that's interesting to hear... did her T actually say that? Or is it them just making us look like the crazy ones to their T? Or is it them just making it up entirely?

Thank you SH4, him and I SEEM to be ok again now but I think it's because I opened up about my past also... I had an emotionally abusive mom at times (who probably has BPD 100% ) and an emotionally distant father. My mom would either be in a super good mood or super bad mood and as a kid I felt like I was walking on eggshells (typical bpd) because you'd never know when she'd wake up what mood she was in... so maybe I subconsciously attract people like my mom (bpd) or ppl like my dad (narc) to simulate these dysfunctional relationships?
My dad only praised me when I did well on things scholastically, and my mom did the same but she was there during emotional times too. I can't say she was a terrible mother because it would be untrue. She IS very loving, and supportive but also very judgmental and critical. So it was this inconsistency in her where I felt abused. I also had to keep secrets for her a lot... like "don't tell your father I didthis" type deal. and my T says my codependency came from that. It was almost like ME taking care of my dysfunctional mom at most times.
Back to my story though... she was very random with her behavior so for me a huge TRIGGER is yelling. and as we know, BPD's yell a lot in their rage or raise their voice when they're getting hostile and about to start a fight. and usually I go into either SHUTDOWN mode... and retreat and take the bs. OR I get into defensive mode where I also lash back or try and justify myself etc (even though I know it's not gonna work). I SO want to be heard sometimes so I go into defense mode. BUT I did open up to my ubpdbf about this and it did actually help us a lot... I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not but now he kind of sees us as BOTH PLEASE READed up instead of just HIM being PLEASE READed up? LOL I'm not sure how well it'll work because I feel a lot of him will now become more latched onto me as he tries to be the CODEP. FOR ME now (ironically) but it did help him stop yelling at me and I started crying and he told me to tell him what to do in those scenarios and I told him to just HOLD ME.
I don't think my ubpdbf learned as a child how to be empathetic sometimes and how to comfort someone because he never got that as a child. So when I cry or get upset at something and start expressing my feelings, I've noticed, it's almost like that's a trigger for him because he feels like HES not good enough, and he doesn't know what to do. But I think now that I told him to just listen and hold me if I cry then he actually understands what I need in those moments (maybe a turning point? Not sure). His T told him that he needs to learn what my triggers are also and that he needs to learn to socialize/communicate properly because he didn't get that as a child. 
He does this thing too I've noticed where he will give me a short response after I express my feelings on something, and I've figured out that triggers a fight a lot of the time too because I don't feel like hes communicating with me whereas in his head he told himself what to do?
I told him he has to learn to OVER communicate because I can't read minds.

[Stillhopeful4]

Wow that's interesting to hear... did her T actually say that? Or is it them just making us look like the crazy ones to their T? Or is it them just making it up entirely?

I believe she said something, that prompted her to read Walking On Eggshells, maybe the T was hinting to her that she had it and maybe reading the book would help her, but it just made her think the T thought I had it.  Not even close.


Also the bit you said about your bf not knowing what to do when you cry.  I can relate to that.  My W is the same, if I cry..I cry, she has never hugged me or consoled me in anyway when I've cried, be it about her or the kids or someone dying...zero sympathy.

SH4

[secretgirl]

I believe she said something, that prompted her to read Walking On Eggshells, maybe the T was hinting to her that she had it and maybe reading the book would help her, but it just made her think the T thought I had it.  Not even close.


Also the bit you said about your bf not knowing what to do when you cry.  I can relate to that.  My W is the same, if I cry..I cry, she has never hugged me or consoled me in anyway when I've cried, be it about her or the kids or someone dying...zero sympathy.

SH4

oh my... yah it's funny how they don't pick up on cues... I even had to ask my T a few times just to MAKE SURE I'm not the crazy one LOL and she's like you may have some traits of a few things but no you're def. not a bpd. and kept repeating itto me to be fully confident LOL but she did say I'm a codep. 100%.

Yeah it's sad sometimes how we have to explain to them what to do in those situations... I think my ubpdbf sort of had a breakthrough when I started crying and he grabbed me and held me so tight and started crying too. It was almost like he just needed ME to say it and be there also for him? So weird. But it almost takes them SO much convincing, talking to to get them to somewhat open up sometimes... does your wife still not give any sympathy or empathy?
I think as children they just were NEVER taught it or given it unfortunately. In my case, even though my mom had BPD, she still occasionally hugged me a lot and when it came to a matter of like life or death, she would give sympathy. She just never gave a PLEASE READ about small stuff (or at least what was "small" to HER). it's like their perception is the only one that matters...