I’m confused and need to vent from argument last night with ubpdbf

[secretgirl]

. WHat do you do when you DONT want to apologize for something causing a fight because you think it was justified yet now they've painted you black and don't want to talk again? Do you just leave him be?

My ubpdbf and I got into an argument last night because I was feeling mistrust on something and brought it up and basically he exploded at me instead of comforting me... and then even after that phone convo I texted him saying IM sorry and to have a goodnight and weekend and that I love him.

and then he got upset that clearly we weren't hanging out then this weekend anymore (which, like why would I want to after his behavior) and then he painted me black and basically blamed the whole thing on me...
I had good reason to feel distrust ... not to mention its the FIRST and ONLY time ive ever felt and allowd myself to express this to him... all the other times it's him accusing me and im the one who has to continuously prove myself, and walk on a thin line for him, and ALWAYS be at my phone because heaven forbid I don't pick up the time he calls... yet when I call him and he doesn't pick up , I have to be in a good mood. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) (well and generally I AM, cause I couldn't give a flying f to be honest when he calls me back/texts me back as long as he does. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

SO yah now... basically we got into an argument and I almost wanted to text him this morning and apologize AGAIN even though I DONT think im at fault... but then re read the convo again and got angry being like WHY SHOULD I? I didn't DO anything. I expressed MY feelings looking for comfort, got none, then got told im negative, then got told to have fun wallowing in my own negativity and that apparently I should be "annoyed at myself for thinking so much negative about him and to enjoy it alone."
like im starting to wonder if these are narcissistic traits underlying his PLEASE READ? Or if this is classic BPD also?
I'd like to mention that the only thing I wrote back to him during this texting "battle" was that I'm ALWAYS there forhim through his insecurities and offer compassion and support, and I don't feel I'm getting it back so im frustrated. and he kept just shutting me down with those passive aggressive responses. and then ended it by saying "trust before empathy always in my books. so goodbye."
Like the UNENDING hypocrisy is just DRIVING me nuts.
He also said he wants to "protect his friends" from women at my "old work" (where im not working now for a few months) because they go there and cheat etc.
WHICH is another hypocritical thing... cause when it comes to MY friends, even the ones who cheat, I get shunned for them being "bad people" and "bad influences" on me etc. yet for him, it's fine to have those friends even though his "morals" state that CHEATERS and LIARS are the lowest of the low and that hes monogamous to the end... soo im a bit confused here. I can understand that people can have friends of which they DONT agree with what their friends DO but then why shun my friends for it?

im SO confused... we had a great time this week and I literally fell into his arms for ONCE, he didn't ditch me, he stayed and held me. Ithought things were getting better... he said he "knew now how to react/what to do if im upset."
But clearly now , his own feelings and anger about me not trusting him seem to override MY feelings.

ugh... SO confused. thank you for letting me ven

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ColdKnight]

Hi Secretgirl,

Vent, get it all out. Venting helps so much. No matter how many times you’ve told your story. If you feel like you want to tell it again and it will help you then tell it again. We will always listen.

His behavior is classic BPD from my experience. My uxgf used to pull the double standard all the time. Silent treatment. Ignore texts and then when I would back off she would get angry at the same things she had just done to me.

Whenever I would tell her that I was unhappy with her behavior she would blow up and give me the silent treatment.

You should not apologize for something you did not do. That will only encourage him to continue his behavior. You have to be able to show strength but also understand that they may never come back if you do.

This type of behavior is always going to be a factor in your relationship with him unless he gets and responds to therapy. YOU, WE can’t change them. We can only change how we respond to their abuse. And make no mistake...it IS abuse...

You may walk away without them but at least you walk away with your self respect.

Have you read “Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist”?
Very good insight and tips on how to handle a relationship with someone with BPD.

[Cat Familiar]

I agree heartily with ColdKnight. Save apologies for when you feel you’ve transgressed your values.

Here’s a link about healthy relationships

[secretgirl]

Hi ColdKnight and Cat, thank you so much for letting me vent on here.. feels so good being able to talk to people who are objective.

Yes that sounds exactly like my ubpdbf... the double standards and hypocrisy... I'm sorry to hear your uexgf also did the same..it just feels SO annoying and SO unfair during the moment. 

"Whenever I would tell her that I was unhappy with her behavior she would blow up and give me the silent treatment."
^^
that quote RIGHT there is EXACTLY my bf... but when it comes to US having to listen to them or deal with them, we have to listen right? we HAVE to be there...

Thank you ColdKnight... it's one of those funny things where , logically, I KNOW what to do sometimes but emotionally, I struggle... which is why I like to post on here and vent so I feel I have a somewhat backup support (you guys).
He DOES go to therapy sometimes but probably not enough... he will go like once when I enforce the boundary then state that he "learns fast", and then literally changes for a BIT or does all the right things for a BIT then goes back to exactly how he was... is this because it's an ingrained habit for him?
Like literally this week when I was crying and he held me I felt SO GOOD. I FELT like there was a difference made/a change... and even the WORDS got to me I guess? I guess they're SO good at talking the "talk."

thank you coldknight... I WILL read that and thank you CAT, I read the healthy r/s article and it was very helpful... it was almost reaffirming things I already knew in a way.

why does this codependency make me feel so wrong even though I know I'm right? it's actually SO frustrating sometimes... and it's funny too because when I'm NOT invested at all, I have NO problem sticking to my boundaries 99% of the time, and have NO problem saying no.
It's only once I'm invested that it gets harder... argh.

[ColdKnight]

“why does this codependency make me feel so wrong even though I know I'm right? it's actually SO frustrating sometimes... and it's funny too because when I'm NOT invested at all, I have NO problem sticking to my boundaries 99% of the time, and have NO problem saying no.
It's only once I'm invested that it gets harder... argh.”

I know exactly how you feel. I had never felt codependent until I met her. If someone treated me poorly I would walk and never look back. Not this one for some reason. Don’t know why I can’t get her outta my mind...

That book is available on Audible if you would prefer to listen to it. That’s what I did.

[secretgirl]

“why does this codependency make me feel so wrong even though I know I'm right? it's actually SO frustrating sometimes... and it's funny too because when I'm NOT invested at all, I have NO problem sticking to my boundaries 99% of the time, and have NO problem saying no.
It's only once I'm invested that it gets harder... argh.”

I know exactly how you feel. I had never felt codependent until I met her. If someone treated me poorly I would walk and never look back. Not this one for some reason. Don’t know why I can’t get her outta my mind...

That book is available on Audible if you would prefer to listen to it. That’s what I did.

Yes... it's actually SO annoying how ONE person can end up making us feel so small... I'm sorry you went through this also *hugs*
Thank you for the audiobook recommendation, very helpful I'm going to download it soon... I also just started reading these pages... they're very useful...especially the page on "how can I be more assertive?"

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/stop-caretaking-the-borderline-or-narcissist/201411/red-flags-emotional-caretakers-part-one

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/stop-caretaking-the-borderline-or-narcissist/201501/how-can-i-be-more-assertive

[ColdKnight]

Both good articles and both by the lady who wrote the book I recommended.

Take care of YOU first!

[secretgirl]

Yes !

Thanks ColdKnight *hugs*

[once removed]

My ubpdbf and I got into an argument last night because I was feeling mistrust on something and brought it up and basically he exploded at me instead of comforting me

lets walk it through.

why were you feeling mistrust?

what did you say? what did he say?

[secretgirl]

lets walk it through.

why were you feeling mistrust?

what did you say? what did he say?

I felt mistrusting due to an incident he brought up about my old work. (which im taking a break from now...) and thought it wa sshady that he happened to "disappear" for a little while in the same week as he brought up that other thing... I don't know why but I had alarm bells go off and im usually a VERY trusting person...
usually I want to not bring upissues with trust at all because I would like to avoid conflict (typical codep.) and then I just said im going to bed to him and said goodnight I don't feel well and that I loved him.
and then he called me and snapped saying what was wrong because I seemed off... and the OLD codep. in me wanted to say nothing and brush it off as usual and whatever but then I was like f this... and blurted it out ASAP and I just said "I just don't feel trustful right now because of X and Y"
basically it ended in an argument where we got off the phone because he snapped that I don't trust him... and all I expected was a little bit of comfort in return... because this week he had told me he "knows how to handle me when im like this"" But clearly in this scenario... it's like HIS feelings overrid Mine. and instead of hearing me out and asking me what HE can do to fix it for me... (like I usually do for him)... he just basically took this as me not trusting him AT all. and then we got off the phone... then I texted him goodnight regardless... and he gave me some passive aggressive replies...and I guess I finally got sick of it and dug into him a bit too saying goodye and goodnight.
I basically said goodbye because I have a feeling in my heart if I DONT apologize for this.. he's probably done... or he's going to text me again starting with an argument and I REFUSE to apologize for this. I cant even explain the COUNTLESS times ive had to comfort HIM when hes feeling mistrustful... and the countless times I have to be at my phone at all times and the countless abuse ive dealt with (verbal abuse in the past).
and he HAS changed a few things like he wont verbally abuse me anymore per se because he "promised" but then he will subtly make digs instead ...
like all I was hoping for was the ONE time I feel uncomfortable and uneasy, he comforts me... yet I get met with attitude, anger, and a refusal to make me feel better...
im starting to learn that words and just words. and that they change their minds constantly to the point that I cant keep up what is the truth and what isn't anymore.

[once removed]

i think that if you want to resolve this, the first thing to do is step out of the who is "right or wrong" mentality and about who is being fair or unfair. its hard to do, no doubt, because all of this is so frustrating.

but when we are able to do it, we can find solutions.

some of what happened here isnt clear to me. he disappeared for a little while (how long? do you know where he went?). shortly after this he noticed something was off and you told him "i dont feel trustful right now because of X and Y", and he didnt like that, and the two of you fought over the phone, and then continued fighting over text. do i have that right?

there were some things that could have been handled better, for sure. bigger picture though, it sounds like a lot of conflict is about the way the two of you fight with each other. there are a lot of expectations of each other, some mind reading or expectation of it, and quick reactions to each other that escalate things.

i dont know that apologies are the issue. if you want to apologize, apologize for the things you said over text. own your part, nothing more. or perhaps it might be better to let this blow over, and focus on how you might approach things next time.

have you read this? it really made me look at conflict in a whole new way: https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

[secretgirl]

i think that if you want to resolve this, the first thing to do is step out of the who is "right or wrong" mentality and about who is being fair or unfair. its hard to do, no doubt, because all of this is so frustrating.

but when we are able to do it, we can find solutions.

some of what happened here isnt clear to me. he disappeared for a little while (how long? do you know where he went?). shortly after this he noticed something was off and you told him "i dont feel trustful right now because of X and Y", and he didnt like that, and the two of you fought over the phone, and then continued fighting over text. do i have that right?

there were some things that could have been handled better, for sure. bigger picture though, it sounds like a lot of conflict is about the way the two of you fight with each other. there are a lot of expectations of each other, some mind reading or expectation of it, and quick reactions to each other that escalate things.

i dont know that apologies are the issue. if you want to apologize, apologize for the things you said over text. own your part, nothing more. or perhaps it might be better to let this blow over, and focus on how you might approach things next time.

have you read this? it really made me look at conflict in a whole new way: https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

yes thank you I have read that but it's actually very difficult to put into practice..
I think i've never been the one actually prior to this to point the finger or say it isn't fair or IM right (im only saying this stuff on here because im venting). the way I generally behave in response to him is closer to SET communication.
I think maybe the only thing I'm at fault here is reacting for the first time with distain because maybe I'm just fed up so I guess you're right... it's a choice ILL have to make whether or not I want to even continue this r/s.
I'm not sure I can with the person he's making me become... I know we are ALL responsible for our own actions but sometimes someone else rubs off on you so much that it eventually starts turning you into someone you're unhappy with too and I think that's what's happening here.

yes ... I agree most of the "mind reading' is actually usually expected by him... which is why I mentioned this is the FIRST time that IM the one who shut down and closed off.
Like usually any problem I have won't even get to the point of him thinking something is "off" because im VERY good at controlling my emotions/feelings for the most part. Every single time prior to this , it has been him expecting me to read his mind and me telling him to OVER communicate and him getting annoyed with me with continually prying and not leaving him alone until he tells me fully what's wrong... and actually me wanting to know, and wanting to communicate prior to this argument are usually what caused our past arguments... and instead of calmly telling me how he feels he ends up exploding, saying nasty things, and also bringing up unrelated events.

so maybe finally the roles have reversed because im fed up? who knows I just feel like I'm tired of always being the one to pull the weight of this r/s for the BOTH of us without any support from him.
either that, or im finally taking my T's advice and standing up for myself ? ahhh. and the codependency aspect makes me feel guilty for standing up for myself for once.
usually im the one putting up with him, or putting MY feelings aside to make him happy.
so I guess what im trying to say is... this is our first argument where I"ve lashed back, or even expressed any sort of "distrust" IM feeling (as opposed to it always being about him and be caretaking him).
I guess the caretaking article really did help me see more of that in me... and to the point of toxicity. 

[once removed]

I know we are ALL responsible for our own actions but sometimes someone else rubs off on you so much that it eventually starts turning you into someone you're unhappy with too and I think that's what's happening here.

at the end of the day, its about how we respond to stress.

everybody is cool until theyre under stress. these are inherently stressful relationships, and our partners themselves dont respond to stress well either.

see this for what it is: difficulty coping in your relationship.

it's a choice ILL have to make whether or not I want to even continue this r/s.

it is. i tend to think that so long as one is in a relationship, we should be working toward improving it, or we should make the hard choice and say "this isnt for me". things getting worse just begets things getting worse.

any update? are the two of you speaking?

[secretgirl]

at the end of the day, its about how we respond to stress.

everybody is cool until theyre under stress. these are inherently stressful relationships, and our partners themselves dont respond to stress well either.

see this for what it is: difficulty coping in your relationship.

it is. i tend to think that so long as one is in a relationship, we should be working toward improving it, or we should make the hard choice and say "this isnt for me". things getting worse just begets things getting worse.

any update? are the two of you speaking?

exactly.. yes we are but I'm kind of the one stopping the convos. i wrote this huge letter last night to him stating how i felt about everything and why i distrust him and its not even the sketchy event that happened... like yes, i had a momentary moment of mistrust which could've been eased with reassurance on his part... BUT my main distrust comes from his lack of words matching up to his actions i guess.

and at first he snapped in response to my huge message because he took ONLY The negative from it, and basically said some mean things again in reaction to it... then once he saw i wasn't reacting (because I'm actually depressed and drained), he flipped back and now im painted white again. and i keep being flipped back since last night.
Like he will paint me white... then when he sees his efforts aren't working he paints me black and replies with a subtle passive aggressive dig.
he said he doesn't want to keep texting me. he would rather see me tonight or call but honestly... im not ready for that yet. I'm sick too right now with the flu and i don't have the energy to argue in person or over the phone.
so i told him texting right now is my only form of communication... and if he doesn't want to text me right now he cant when he so wishes to.
so basically he went off to do his work day now.
my mood cant change that fast... it doesn't change as quick as a BPD.
if I'm sad, im sad for a while until i get over it. If I'm not over it yet, I'm still sad. For him it's like he's sad for a bit then if things go his way, he quickly changes to being SO happy. i don't get it and i never will understand how he can do that because he's bpd i guess. I'm not sure what will come of it... all i know is that I'm disappointed i spent a lot of effort writing a letter stating that i DO apologize for me mistrusting and my bits... but i wont apologize for his reaction or lack of being there for me and meeting me with compassion and empathy. and then he basically took it as me not apologizing for ANY of it... and said it's 100% my fault and he's not taking blame for anything... so i just shrugged my shoulders and went well that was a waste of time. and refused to give any sort of energy to the conversations thereafter.
i guess that's why he got frustrated and started bombing me with the lovey dovey PLEASE READ and then go back to the negative if i don't respond the way he wants.

it's almost like when I'm upset, it's an inconvenience for him. that's what I FEEL like it is...
and when he's upset, distrusting, paranoid, etc. i have to be there and i AM and drop everything to try and make him happy.
I guess that's MY problem too. The codependency. and expecting the same back. and honestly... i don't even expect it back to that level... just want him to be empathetic. but maybe that'll never happen>? *sigh.

[once removed]

i wrote this huge letter

in the future, why not share things like this here before you send? its easy for the message to be lost when emotions are heightened. you can get solid, constructive feedback here. once things go sour, theres only so much we can do.

[ColdKnight]

“It's almost like when I'm upset, it's an inconvenience for him. that's what I FEEL like it is...”

I know exactly how you feel.  Soo frustrating

[Cat Familiar]

Totally agree with OR. Next time let us give some feedback on your letter.

As a non, I’d be a bit alarmed receiving such a letter. A pwBPD could easily be overwhelmed and thinking that you are blaming and shaming him.

Those letters are often best unsent, but they’re wonderful for organizing our thoughts and feelings.

While you’re recovering from the flu, here’s a video about validation and invalidation.  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206132

I tend to be a very direct person and I had no idea how often I was invalidating my husband. I thought I was just being honest and forthright, but to him, so much of what I said was interpreted as criticism and shaming.

Hope you feel better soon.

Cat

[secretgirl]

Thank you OR you’re right ... I should always post it here before I send it to see if it comes across as shameful.

Yes cold knight ... it’s frustrating as heck sometimes when you’re always there and as soon as your feelings come up they feel pushed aside .

Thank you cat ... I will read that now that I’m at home mulling things over maybe this is the solution to it all... I’m too honest too . I mean I’m very empathic and sympathetic but like maybe the honesty is making him feel “not good enough.” A lot of the time ... and that’s fine usually I try not to even present it that way... it’s just I wanna be heard too sometimes . So frustrating .
I guess as a non we have to be more open to their reactions thanks for listening to me vent ... it actually helps ... in gappy we have this board room to at least vent to others in our position especially if the bpd is unwilling to listen/cooperate in a productive and constructive chat. So thank you guys... I’m starting to feel better .

[once removed]

see if it comes across as shameful.
...
I’m too honest too

the simplest way to think of it is that people with BPD traits are just like you and me. they say and do everything the rest of us do. just more extreme, and especially under stress.

human nature still applies.

it sounds like you were feeling put off, and got distant (men can read this very well...people with bpd traits, even more so). when he asked what was up, you said "im feeling distrustful over x and y".

while you were expecting to be comforted, most men will hear this approach as an accusation, and resort automatically to going on defense (or even offense).

so the first best step is not to bottle things up and go quiet and then release them. you will receive defensiveness almost every time. express things gently but firmly from the get go (dont go from 0 to 60), or if you think its not merited (ive been angry over things in my life that were better unsaid) let it go.

the second best step is to state what youre asking for upfront. if you want to be comforted, ask for it. put it in those terms. its okay to say "i need some reassurance", or whatever it is youre looking for.

his blowing up in response was obviously not constructive. expect that his immediate response will not necessarily be what youre looking for. let it blow over; escalating things only begets more escalation. more often than not, he will likely be more receptive, and constructive when he gets back to baseline, and when you show that that is the desired response, you will ultimately tend to get more of it. positive reinforcement.

does that make sense?

[secretgirl]

the simplest way to think of it is that people with BPD traits are just like you and me. they say and do everything the rest of us do. just more extreme, and especially under stress.

human nature still applies.

it sounds like you were feeling put off, and got distant (men can read this very well...people with bpd traits, even more so). when he asked what was up, you said "im feeling distrustful over x and y".

while you were expecting to be comforted, most men will hear this approach as an accusation, and resort automatically to going on defense (or even offense).

so the first best step is not to bottle things up and go quiet and then release them. you will receive defensiveness almost every time. express things gently but firmly from the get go (dont go from 0 to 60), or if you think its not merited (ive been angry over things in my life that were better unsaid) let it go.

the second best step is to state what youre asking for upfront. if you want to be comforted, ask for it. put it in those terms. its okay to say "i need some reassurance", or whatever it is youre looking for.

his blowing up in response was obviously not constructive. expect that his immediate response will not necessarily be what youre looking for. let it blow over; escalating things only begets more escalation. more often than not, he will likely be more receptive, and constructive when he gets back to baseline, and when you show that that is the desired response, you will ultimately tend to get more of it. positive reinforcement.

does that make sense?

100% ... I agree and thank you so much for the insightful response ... him and I actually had a good chat now that he is calmer and we talked it through. As you said, he felt attacked the way I presented my mistrust and said it hurt him very very badly that I’d call him a cheater (which I didn’t ) and I mean his response obv was typical bpd .. but I did watch that video cat recommended on validation /invalidation and I think I do the invalidation thing A LOT. So I’m super happy I talked to you guys and I’m super happy that I watched that video ... it really helped take me out of my perspective and into his just that much more ... I never realiZed how even the slightest comments can trigger them and make them feel invalidated (which is why half the time I have no idea why he’s mad/where it’s coming from). I must say though it’s going to be difficult but I’m up for the challenge ! And if this doesn’t work, then I’m calling it quits (haha)
Just I never realized even my tone can seem invalidating to him at times . I’m going to have to be a lot more careful from now on how I “present” things