At a complete loss- sorry for the length

[Dmacs134]

My head and my heart are not in alignment and I have no idea what to do. My on-again off-again BF of almost 3 years may have “Quiet BPD.” I say “may” because he’s not officially diagnosed. He has read the criteria and admits that he fits 8 of the 9. He does not rage outwardly, cut or threaten suicide. He internalizes all of his pain, anger, sadness, etc.  He’s crazy manipulative, a compulsive liar, and lacks impulse control.
 
We met an overseas assignment and immediately hit off. It was a semi whirlwind romance, but both of us were in other relationships that were on the verge of ending before we met. I broke off my engagement and he was divorcing his wife. A year later, I received an email from his “ex-wife” where she accused me of being the “other woman.” From this, I found out that pretty much everything about our relationship was a lie. He even created a false legal separation document to prove to me that he was getting divorced. Sadly, by now I am so emotionally attached. I really believed that he was “the one.” We didn’t speak for about 3 weeks and then randomly ran into each other. He begged to talk to me. Thus began 2 years of the rollercoaster relationship.
 
I left that overseas job Sept last year. I told him if he wasn’t divorced before I left we will be done. He didn’t get divorced. Yet he kept contacting me as if nothing has changed other than we are now “long-distance.” I would remind him that we are not together and that I am going to start dating because he is still married and can’t give me what I want and need. I ended up going on a few dates but realized that I was still emotionally attached to him and needed to heal. The problem is, he’s become my best friend and we talk every day and I look forward to talking to him, so healing is hard. One of the best things about our relationship is the fact that we do communicate our feelings so well. There is no denying our connection, even through all this garbage. I have tried to cut it off numerous times but one of us always ends up contacting the other. He’s reached out to friends, professing his undying love for me. He was assuring everyone he was getting divorced so he could be with me. I lost count of how many people contacted me saying how much he loves me. But for every one of those messages I also received messages of how he’s been “chasing skirts” and “doesn’t go home alone.” He denies this of course. I tell him I had proof (lying) and he would spin the story, making fun of the women to convince me there was nothing going on.
 
In January he visited me for what was supposed to be a month. 3 weeks into it I received an email from his wife where he tells her he doesn’t want a divorce. He looked at me, said he doesn’t know how to not hurt me, and walked out my door. I’ve never felt more devastation in my life. It was probably another month before we spoke again. Now I am trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with me, and why do I keep allowing him back into my life? I found an intensive retreat that made me find my authentic self again. I felt stronger and started to handle our conversations differently. He was so good at manipulating that most the time I had no idea I was even being manipulated until well after the fact. I started to see when he would gaslight or try to manipulate me and I began to stop him.
 
The next 2 months were super rocky so I cut him off completely. About a month and a half later we ended up talking again. Allegedly he hit rock bottom and decided it was time to be truthful. He admitted that since I left in Sept, he had been with 3 women plus his wife. As suspected, the women he made fun of were the women he was sleeping with. He says hearing that I was going on dates just devastated him and he didn’t know how to handle the pain. He tried to spin it as my fault being I was the one that kept telling him we were not together and that I was single, but a friend reminded him that he was MARRIED and that although I was going on dates, I wasn’t sleeping with anybody because I was still hopeful that he would “get his sh*t together.”  Once again I am absolutely devastated.
 
I am now in therapy and it is helping. My therapist is the one that brought BPD to my attention. I passed the information along to him with no expectations. He called me 2 days later literally crying saying that this is him. He seemed utterly distraught (defeated almost) but also I saw a bit of hope in him. He has always said that he hurts anyone he gets close to and he tries to protect those relationships. He was so fearful he was going to drive me away, thus all the lies and manipulations. Throughout our relationship he’s often said to me that he is hurting, but I just chopped it up to the pain of a divorce. Now I am starting to see he meant it literally and that hurt runs deep.
 
He too is now in therapy and has come to realize the reason he has delayed his divorce is his insane fear of abandonment. He copes with the pain via sex (in his 25 year marriage he was never faithful and has a kid from one affair). He never felt he was good enough as a child so he brought that into his adult life. I remember so many times in the beginning that he was in awe that I was even speaking to him let alone allowing him my time. At the time I thought those comments were odd. It makes sense now. Prior to learning BPD was a thing, we had conversations where he’s said his mom was always disapproving and controlling and that is also his wife. He’s not allowed out with people she doesn’t know and approve. As an FYI, he is a victim of childhood trauma.
 
My dilemma: I am a walking dichotomy. My intellectual self knows “hurting people hurt people” but I can’t help but want to get revenge on him for hurting me. Yet my emotional self has such compassion for him and is trying to forgive his behaviors. However, I can’t seem to get past the betrayal and the lies. Intellectually I know he didn’t “cheat” on me because I was saying we weren’t together, but that is all I’m feeling…like he did nothing but cheat on me the entire time with all these women. I spiral in my head, visualizing him having sex with these women. Yes, I know, very unhealthy, but I don’t know how to stop myself from jumping into this rabbit hole when it starts. These thoughts are so crushing and become obsessive within a matter of seconds. I am now “raging” on him, getting angry at him when thoughts enter my head, and cutting him off seemingly every other day. I put unrealistic, no-win demands on him because of my lack of trust. For example, I told him (lying) that I knew he was with more than 3 women and he shouldn’t call me until he’s ready to tell me the truth. If he calls and tells me he slept with 1 or 100 more, I’ll be devastated. If he calls and says he’s told me everything, I’ll think he’s lying. He can’t win. I do recognize my roller coaster of emotions and even wondered if I might be BPD,  but then I read that my emotions are reactions to his actions and I’m in a grieving stage. Logically I do understand that I’m acting out of hurt, insecurities, and fears.
 
I really want to believe that him having random sex is a result of his lack of impulse control, and that he is trying to make his pain temporarily stop (he’s describes it as getting tunnel vision), but I can’t wrap my brain around this reason. I just don’t get how he doesn’t have that “trigger” in his brain to stop him before he acts on his thoughts or emotions. He has been very patient with me and has been trying to explain as best he can but I just don’t understand how a person can do these things and never once think of their significant other. Sex doesn’t “just happen.” He seems so normal, has a great career, and is well liked. I just can’t seem to get how his brain is so screwed up when he appears so normal. My head is screaming run for the hills..that “a leopard never changes his spots,” but my heart is saying “stay.” I just don’t know what to do or how to get the 2 to align. Just because his version of love is different from mine, is it wrong? I’ve never once doubted his emotions for me. I care so deeply for him and I really can’t imagine my life without him, especially now that his divorce is final (verified by looking up the court record... which makes me sad that I don’t trust his word). I just don’t know if I could ever get over this betrayal and lack of trust. Currently reading “Stop Walking on Eggshells. Any other ideas?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Hi Dmacs and welcome!

I'm sorry for what you're going through. As all of us here know, these relationships can be extremely difficult and painful. I'm glad you're seeing a therapist and working on yourself as that's one of the key steps, whatever direction you decide to take. And I'm glad you're reading Eggshells. It was a HUGE help to me when I started to figure out my husband's situation. Understanding where the other person is coming from goes a long way in improving relationships.

It sounds like you've got a lot of very mixed, confusing emotions swirling around. I get it. I've been there. Believe me. I, too, have been torn between compassion for my H and anger/resentment for his treatment of me. Some of the good people here pointed out to me that the attitude I was developing was not conducive to improving the relationship. People with BPD tend to be very perceptive. He was picking up on my growing detachment and that was making our situation even worse. When I decided I wanted to try to keep the marriage alive, one of the first things I worked on was my attitude.

Of course, you may decide you don't want to save the relationship and that's OK, too. No one here will tell you to stay or go. That's not what we do. But we can help walk with you on the way down whatever road you choose.

Have you heard of the Gottman four relationship breakdown stages? We've got an article on it here:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

What stage do you think you're on now?

[Dmacs134]

Thank you Ozzie101 for your reply. I wasn’t familiar with Gottman four relationship breakdown stages so just read up on it. I can see us in dribs and drabs in all four of these stages but it’s more about the behaviors rather than the person. I don’t have contempt for him but I do for his behaviors. I don’t hate him, I hate his behaviors. When I stonewall, it’s not to never talk again, it’s more to take a break so more rational minds can prevail and the conversation be productive instead of circular. Does this make sense? Neither of us are good with yelling and screaming so if the conflict starts escalating to that point, one of us walks away. Not in anger or to be hurtful, but to be productive later.

You mentioned working on your attitude. How did you go about that and was it hard in the beginning? I know this is something I need to do or we won’t have a prayer of making it.

I’m so glad I found this community!   

[Ozzie101]

And we're glad you're here (well, not glad for the situation that brings you here, but you know what I mean)! We're all about helping each other!

One thing my therapist and his therapist separately recommended to us was that we have a "safe word." When one of us is getting flooded or too worked up, he or she says the word. Then, we're supposed to go to separate, neutral rooms for a half-hour (longer if we need more time) to cool off. Then we come back together. Each gets a set amount of time to talk, calmly and rationally. Just fair warning, though, it didn't completely work when I had to do it with H a few months ago. He was upset, followed me and kept barging into the room to make a comment. Was pretty ashamed of himself the next morning. We haven't had to use it since, though.

Yes, it was hard. I'd been cutting myself off. Part of it for me was reopening the physical side. I'd closed off. I tried to make a conscious effort to, literally, reach out more like I used to early on in the marriage. Arm squeezes, a peck on the cheek, a random hug. I had to make myself at first, really, but it worked. But then, physical affection is H's love language. There might be something else that works better for you.

Also, I started working more on boundaries. I'm a pushover by nature and so I tended to just give into him to avoid conflict but the resentment was building. I started to let go of things. I used to get incredibly anxious and almost physically ill when he'd get upset. Now, I listen with empathy, but also somewhat disengage, separating my problems from his problems. Not easy and it's a work in progress. But as I grew calmer and more rational, so did he.

Fear of abandonment in pwBPD is VERY strong. As H felt more secure and was less and less afraid he was going to lose me, his more extreme behaviors lessened considerably.

There are some great articles and workshops on this site that I hope you'll check out as you look around. I think you might really find these useful for now:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict
https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

[Dmacs134]

Thanks for those articles. I have read them a few times now. I also like the code word idea. How do you handle moving past all the lies and deceit? That seems to be my hangup. I want to believe him, but I can’t, I don’t know how. His lies are so darn convincing and I fell for every one of them hook, line, and sinker. I found an old text message from three years ago where he was caught in a lie and trying to get himself out of it by creating another lie. I fell for that second lie and forgave him. Rereading this text exchange has brought up so many emotions it is making me see that his game hasn’t changed. He says the exact same thing as he said three years ago when I catch him in a lie and he thinks I’m going to leave him.

He panics if I go silent because I need time to myself or I need time to heal. He’ll tell me that he will give me the time, but within hours he is “blowing up“ my phone or email, never really giving me the space I need. Every time I feel the strength within myself to walk away from this drama and chaos, he finds a way to suck me back in. I can’t help but to think and feel that I was just his fail-safe because he knew his marriage was dissolving. Do people with BPD really know how to love? Will they always tell lies, be con artists, and  be unfaithful?

I am fighting every urge in my body to not “give him a taste of his own medicine,“ because that is not me, that is not my authentic self and I refuse to be somebody I’m not just because I feel vindictive and vengeful towards him/the hurt he’s brought into my life. It’s super hard though. Right now I really can’t see the light at the end of this tunnel.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Dmacs-

I’d also like to welcome to our community.  I’m sorry for what brings you here, but glad you’ve found us.  As you’ve found, these relationships are very complex, and our partners are NOT easy.  Seems just when things begin to hum along, BOOM!  Something takes place to knock you off balance.

There are a few things in your posts that stood out for me.  I kind of think perhaps you belong more on the “Conflicted” board rather than the “Improving” board at this juncture.  You’re obviously pretty torn, with good reason.  But you’re here and since you are, ive got to use care with my wording.

Please.. I apologize for bombarding you with questions.  I’m trying to get a better feel for your situation.

*Am I correct in understanding that you and your BF are living in different countries and this is a long distance relationship? 
*Do you have plans to live in the same location? 
*How long was your BF married? 
*I take it that due to the fact that his now exW emailed you to point out that one year into your relationship that you were “the other woman” that the divorce was HIS choice and not hers?
*If the divorce was HIS idea,  how do you explain his “abandonment” theory fitting in there; with you as the “fail safe”?
*When you say at the time of that email you learned that pretty much “everything about your relationship was a lie” what does that mean to you? 
*Did he lie about how he felt for you? 
*Was he also seeing other women while he was seeing you (and his W)?

*Is his T specifically addressing his impulsive sexual behavior?

*Regarding the three women he’s owned up to having sex with, did he have relationships with them?  Or was it just sex?  If possible, see if you can tactfully assess the TRUTH around that.

*Can you provide some color around the type of lies he gives you, and how you determine he’s lying?

* Are his lies sort of silly and childish, almost like he’s “trying” to get caught in the lies?  For example, he breaks a small vase and hides the pieces in your house where you’ll FIND them (instead of just telling you)?  Or he gets a rust stain on your dress, hides the dress behind a paint can in the garage and you find your $100 dress in the garage and say “what the ?” And are forced to confront a 56-year old man... who acts like a 6-year old when questioned...
*Or are his lies the truly damaging type?  Like forging your signature on a federal tax return refund check?  Or lying about business dealings and if you were to marry him this COULD negatively impact you.

My friend, I’ve had relationships with the destructive liar and the childish liar.  Neither is good. 

The destructive liar was my exH (19 years, NPD with some BPD traits).  My exH was a cheat from the word “go”.  He was a shameless flirt (which I didn’t consider MY problem cuz I’m not a jealous person).  He had cheated before we married, but he was so devastated by his actions and rocked by his guilt, I never thought it would become a habit.   But cheating apparently became a habit.  Violence ended the marriage.

My uBPDbf (undiagnosed BPD boyfriend) tells pretty harmless lies.  He is VERY LOYAL, VERY FAITHFUL.  He would NEVER cheat and he LOATHES my exH.  We’ve been together 6 years.  Things have been much better lately (he’s got RAGE issues); however something else just came up and I’m now conflicted with how to address THIS with him.

You know Dmacs-

It’s SO SO important (my belief only) that no matter which way you move that you maintain YOUR values with each step you take.  The term “authentic self” is a mystery to me because our “self” is so fluid; but our values rest in our hearts.  Revenge may likely taste bitter.  And sometimes obtaining forgiveness from ourselves can be nearly impossible to achieve.

You’ve no need to purposely hurt someone else to show them what pain feels like.  I understand feeling so helpless and wanting that person to KNOW; but we cannot teach them that lesson. 

I look forward to hearing your response, and again sorry for all the questions.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

 

[Dmacs134]

I didn’t even know the conflicted board was a thing. I didn’t see that as an option before posting. But I think you are correct, that is probably more the board I should be on. My apologies this is all new to me.   

Thank you for responding. Hearing your story does help me a bit. I will answer your questions to maybe give you a better understanding of this drama I seem to be in.

*Am I correct in understanding that you and your BF are living in different countries and this is a long distance relationship? 
-For now, yes. He will be back to the US in 6 weeks. We will still be apart, but only by a few hours.

*Do you have plans to live in the same location? 
-Yes,  he is planning to move to my town within the year. He is just waiting for a transfer with work to come through.

*How long was your BF married? 
-25 years, together 27

*I take it that due to the fact that his now exW emailed you to point out that one year into your relationship that you were “the other woman” that the divorce was HIS choice and not hers?
-Nope.. And this is another point of contention for me. The divorce is and always has been her choice. She is the one that initiated it and she is the one that moved it forward. He was seemingly dragging his feet and it was/is the cause of many arguments between us.

*If the divorce was HIS idea,  how do you explain his “abandonment” theory fitting in there; with you as the “fail safe”?

*When you say at the time of that email you learned that pretty much “everything about your relationship was a lie” what does that mean to you? 
-He lied to me about the status of the divorce. He led me to believe that he was getting divorced, but that was not true. He created a false legal separation document to convince me that he was getting divorced. He went on a family vacation and told me that he took the kids camping. Come to find out that they all went to the Caribbean, including his wife. He told me that when he would go home on breaks he was staying at a friend house. Only to find out he was actually staying at his house because the divorce was never a thing. He essentially was leading a double life.

*Did he lie about how he felt for you? 
-I don’t believe he lied about how he felt for me. That is the one thing I really truly feel was the only truth he ever told me. I never once doubted his emotions for me.

*Was he also seeing other women while he was seeing you (and his W)?
-To my knowledge he was not seeing other people while he was seeing me, while we were in the same country.

*Is his T specifically addressing his impulsive sexual behavior?
-His current T is not addressing those behaviors to my knowledge. I think they are just addressing BPD in general and trying to find his triggers. He has a T lined up for when he moves back, who is apparently an expert in BPD. She offers a 30-90 day intensive in patient and regular out patient therapy. He plans to do both if that’s what she recommends.

*Regarding the three women he’s owned up to having sex with, did he have relationships with them?  Or was it just sex?  If possible, see if you can tactfully assess the TRUTH around that.
-According to him it was just sex. I do believe one of them developed feelings for him, but the way he describes it, he used her to fill a massive void of emptiness and not be in pain anymore. He is adamant he never developed feelings for any of them.The other two women are married, so I believe with them that it was just sex.  None of them were just “one night stands” though. He says each were “a few times” but he considers each time essentially a one night stand...whatever that means…

*Can you provide some color around the type of lies he gives you, and how you determine he’s lying?
-well, he would lie to extremes, like I said creating false legal separation documents and false travel documents to prove to me he isn’t lying, he lied by omission about a kid he has from an affair years ago, he initially lied about having a lawyer until he knew he absolutely had to get one, etc. And  then he would also lie about the little things, such as what he ate for dinner or if he bought new shoes.

* Are his lies sort of silly and childish, almost like he’s “trying” to get caught in the lies?  For example, he breaks a small vase and hides the pieces in your house where you’ll FIND them (instead of just telling you)?  Or he gets a rust stain on your dress, hides the dress behind a paint can in the garage and you find your $100 dress in the garage and say “what the ?” And are forced to confront a 56-year old man... who acts like a 6-year old when questioned...
*Or are his lies the truly damaging type?  Like forging your signature on a federal tax return refund check?  Or lying about business dealings and if you were to marry him this COULD negatively impact you.
-His lies are more childish if I had to put it in either of those two categories. I don’t think he would ever forge my signature or get me involved into something that could negatively impact me. The things he lies about are more damaging to him than anyone else. That’s why I’m baffled that he lies to the extremes that he does.

His divorce is still fresh and when he does come back he won’t be in the same ZIP Code as me. So I have insane fears that he has not been healing properly from the divorce and is just going to continue to use women to forget about his pain, all the while keeping me on a string. Even though I was the one saying we are not together, I still feel so incredibly betrayed. But then the other part of me feels that he is really trying to get himself better and now that he knows he is most likely BPD, he wants to heal himself, he wants to love himself. After I sent him the information from my T and he called crying, his words to me were “for the first time in my life I finally feel that there is a chance someone can understand me. For the longest time I just thought I was a jerk (he actually used a cuss word) even though I knew I’m not. I’m not a bad guy.”

You are right about revenge and luckily that little trigger in my brain keeps going off every time I feel the urge to do something. I have wanted to tell the husbands of these women about how they cheated, but I have decided it’s not my place and Karma will do it’s thing in due time. I am trying really hard not to lose myself. I use the term “authentic self“ to describe who I am at my core being. This encompasses my morals, values, standards. Does that make sense?

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Dmacs-  (apologies for the length of this post)

Okay, much clearer picture, thank you.

There’s a lot to work through here.  Lots for you to think about and process.  And a whole lot of work and healing that your partner will need to do.

First, please grab ‘hold of whatever “revenge” urges you’re feeling and toss them away for good.  If you’ve got to take bread crumbs and toss them in a river with a prayer to release them, do that.  Or do it with a loud primal scream.  But get rid of the revenge urge for good.  Contacting some other woman’s husband to report an affair with your BF (who was married) brings no rewards to anyone; and could devastate something that may NOT deserve devastation.  Forget about “karma”.  Those women had their reasons... let them work things out for themselves.  These women did not intend to hurt YOU.

I’m betting that during the 25 years of your BF’s marriage, his W likely felt compelled to write more than one letter informing a woman that she was with a married man.  She’s the one with the most healing to undertake. 

I never wrote a letter, but I sat there (he begged me to sit there) when my exH made a phone call telling his affair partner to leave him alone.  I was also on the receiving end of a phone call from a screaming woman saying my exH said he couldn’t swim with her anymore cuz she was “single”.  I asked why she felt responsible for my marriage?  Told her to “check herself”, worry about her own life, not pull me into her problems with my husband’s lies and to have a nice day. 

There will be an adjustment period once your BF returns to the US and gets settled with a new T.  Where will his exW and children be living?  Are his kids away at college, grown, etc.?  How is his relationship with his kids?

What about the relationship with the child he had through the affair?  Where is that child, the mother?  And how are those relationships?

See?  A LOT!

*Do you have children?  Are you ready for the stepmom role and easing into that role at some point? 
*Does his exW “blame” you for the final end of her marriage? (I’m hoping not...she could point at lots of other things, I know).

Okay, let me explain MY view of the lies.  They don’t seem to stop.  In the case of my uBPDbf, they can be about the silliest things.  Some not that silly, but not dangerous.  And this dishonesty carries over into other areas... taking stuff from my house that he wants, needs for something, or thinks he should take because I gave to him ONCE.  “SNOOPING” in my home.  Over and over.  He thinks I don’t know.  (IDIOT!).  I’m actually really angry right now.  So angry I couldn’t sleep last night.  Or tonight.

We have talked about the lies.  I have asked “why?”  Many times.  His whole posture changes to that of a small child, literally.  This goes back to the abuse, extreme physical and emotional/verbal abuse he suffered as a child.  He was the only boy of 4 kids and was blamed for everything.  I do know that.  He was severely beaten.  He is a victim of Emotional Incest with the mother (NOT sexual).  That continues to this day and the way she twists him is horrible to witness.  He now understands this, and I CAN use the “Emotional Incest” term with him to explain his confusion and love / HATE toward his mother.

The taking things from my home.  Things will just be ... GONE!  He doesn’t tell me he’s taken them.  So I’ll go to use something and it’s simply NOT there!  And my internal RAGE will be triggered.  I’ve said aloud to myself - “Did he think I wouldn’t  NOTICE that my step stool is GONE?”  And then I curse up a storm in my kitchen to myself and my dog.  I’m so mad right now about some things that happened.  I need to stop.  Not my post... sorry.

The effects on me (you) are this... you already know.  You begin to question EVERYTHING.  And that feels bad.  But just because he lies about the little stuff does NOT mean he’ll lie about the big stuff.  That’s what you’ve got to figure out for yourself.  The lying and taking stuff has a true “physical” effect on me.  Inside my body.  Internally, I FEEL it so deeply because no one lied in my family and I lived through lies with my exH.  The effect of his “snooping” and taking stuff was bad this time.  And it IS bad.  He again went through personal papers to get what he wanted.  And now, often... if I don’t find something I’m looking for straightaway, I “jump to conclusions”... that he “stole” whatever IT was.  Then I’ve got to calm myself down if I find the thing a minute later because he’s moved it.  Damaging behavior on his part and maladaptive on my part.

I’d say learn what you can about his relationship with his FOO (family of origin).  His parents.  Ask kindly and keep that info close.  It will help you, especially stuff about the mother.

Knowing this, the “reasons” does NOT make things any easier on me (you).

I am with him for 6 years now.  We’ve had significant periods apart, where he’s dysregulated so badly that I sent him away.  The longest was 8 months last year; but we maintain periodic contact during those periods due to the lack of “Object Permanence” with BPD’s.  You want to look up that phrase.  I make sure he knows I still love him with messages, even tho’ I may not be ready to welcome him back yet.  You’ve got to remind your man that you EXIST, that he LOVES you.  Sounds odd, but it’s true.  In your situation, your BF takes words very literally.  If he thinks you’re broken up, he WILL seek company and comfort of other women. 

So even if you’re taking emotional space, your BF does not understand that concept.  He doesn’t SEE the color GRAY, so to speak.  He deals in BLACK and WHITE thinking.  That’s how most BPDs see things.  Dmacs wants me.  Dmacs doesn’t want me.  Full stop.  There is NO “Dmacs loves me but needs a few days of quiet time”. 

If you can do the “Radical Acceptance” thing toward his sexual activity (3 women and forget about more questions), you’ll be helping both of you.  He’s trying to understand his diagnosis and dealing with the end of the marriage.  He wants to save his relationship with you, correct?  He did believe you were broken up.  You do believe he was NOT unfaithful to YOU.

These are important steps.  Start from the here and now.  Clean slate.  Forgiveness is your friend in these relationships.

Whew!  Finally, this site is filled with amazing sources - please look over the communication tools to help improve your relationship.  For starters, I’d recommend you learn NOT to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain); and second learn NOT to be invalidating.  This means learning to Validate your partner.  And you ONLY validate the VALID.

Please keep posting, engage with other members and keep your chin up.  You’ve opened your BF’s eyes to some answers he’s likely been seeking his entire adult life.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Dmacs134]

“I’m betting that during the 25 years of your BF’s marriage, his W likely felt compelled to write more than one letter informing a woman that she was with a married man.  She’s the one with the most healing to undertake. “
-She has and she’s sent plenty of letters. Even to young woman she just suspected of sleeping with him but he actually wasn’t. This young woman was our colleague who is 25 years old and in a long term relationship.

“I asked why she felt responsible for my marriage?  Told her to “check herself”, worry about her own life, not pull me into her problems with my husband’s lies and to have a nice day.”
-This is a great response! His exW has sent me tons of emails and texts. 110 texts in one shot. They all said the same thing... that I was a horrible person and 100% responsible for her marriage problems. I rarely engaged her but the few times I did, I politely reminded her that #1 HE lied to me about his relationship status, #2 he has a child from a previous affair that was long before he knew I existed, and #3, by her own admission “he’s done this numerous times.” I do recognize my role once I found out the truth, but I know unequivocally I am/was NOT the reason for their marriage problems. What she doesn’t know is that I was actually encouraging him to try to reconcile with her and not “throw away” 25 years for some girl. He would get annoyed and tell me that I’m not “some girl” and that he has tried over the years but she just won’t admit she is part of the problem. She blames him for everything and won’t look in the mirror. She controls him to a point that he literally is not allowed to take his phone into the bathroom because she “knows he’s texting other women.” He can’t have friends that she does not know and he’s not allowed out (other than work) without her. She has struck up conversations with women on his social media, using his account and posing as him, that she suspected him of attempting to cheat with. She sent me one of those screen shots, admitted that she was posing as him, and said “See, you aren’t the only one. He’s clearly trying.” The messages were very sophomoric and the girl was clearly confused about the conversation. I personally did not see it as the girl was interested in having an affair.

Where will his exW and children be living?  Are his kids away at college, grown, etc.?  How is his relationship with his kids?
-exW will be living in their home (it is hers anyway because her parents gifted it to her years ago and he isn’t even on the deed. There is no mortgage). 3 kids are in college- 2 out of state, 1 in the town, living at the house but stays at his gf house. 1 kid is working 6 hours away- she didn’t want to come home after college.
-His relationship with the kids is ok. The kids have seen a lot and I think they are just done with the drama in their home. One kid is in college 20 hours away. He comes back just before Thanksgiving and one kid told them she’s not coming home for Thanksgiving. I think that speaks volumes. A friend of his has told me that she won’t allow her daughter over that house anymore because too many times she had to pick her daughter up because exW was on a rampage, yelling at him for “***king other women.” This same friend was over with her daughter on a separate day to pick something up. BF went to get a glass of water while she waited and exW started screaming at him for not taking the right glass. His daughter walked by, looked at the friend and said, “this is normal, she’ll stop freaking in a minute.” ExW has made sure the kids all know about his transgressions and me. She has cried (literally) to her then 15 year old about how her father can’t be faithful and that she’s so lonely and hates going out with couples now. The kids have recently told him that they are happy to see him happy. They said they know that the divorce was a long time coming. No kid wants to see their parents divorce, but I think some know it is for the best.

What about the relationship with the child he had through the affair?  Where is that child, the mother?  And how are those relationships?
-This one is more complicated. He only found out about this kid a few years ago. He was served with paternity papers when the kid was 4. He had no idea she was ever pregnant. He is still struggling knowing he has a kid from an affair, but he does talk to the kid weekly. Well, he’s 8 so conversations are only as long as an 8 year old talks on the phone. LOL.

*Do you have children?  Are you ready for the stepmom role and easing into that role at some point? 
*Does his exW “blame” you for the final end of her marriage?
- I don’t have kids, I fully welcome the stepmom role and yes to the wife blaming me (see above...).

That is terrible that your BF snoops so bad and takes things. I find it interesting that you can physically see him change into a small child when you confront him. My BF had a “dark side” episode earlier today. He NEVER lets me see this side but I’ve asked for him not to hide it anymore so I can try to better understand BPD/quiet BPD. This one was pretty bad. It was hard to not have compassion for him. I can’t imagine living life this way and I really felt for him. Does your BF give you an answer when you ask “Why” or does he use his childhood as a crutch-so to say? 

So glad to hear you rage and cuss too. I was seriously starting to think I might be the one with BPD the amount of times I’m up and down due to his actions (or inactions). I do question everything but I’m trying to find a way to move past the past. Lying was something not done in my family either. This is new territory for me. Deep down I know he is a good man. He just has a lot of learned behaviors that need to be unlearned. Do I think he can do it, yes. But, I also know from personal experience, changing behaviors takes YEARS. I need to figure out if I can get past the lies, manipulations and the feelings of betrayal. It’s not even that he slept with these women (a part is of course), it is more that he lied for almost a year about it when I kept asking and saying what other people were telling me. This hit home hard to me: Dmacs wants me.  Dmacs doesn’t want me.  Full stop.  There is NO “Dmacs loves me but needs a few days of quiet time” and “your BF takes words very literally.  If he thinks you’re broken up, he WILL seek company and comfort of other women.” Thank you! I don’t know why but it made something click in the brain. So by me telling him that we’re not together because he’s married and I’m going to start dating, he only heard “Dmacs doesn’t want me,” and “Dmacs is going to sleep around.”

His FOO story: He was raped by a family friend when he was 6. He was bullied and deemed the “weird kid” in 5th grade that he had zero friends and ate lunch every day by himself. He said sometimes the lunch ladies would feel bad for him and sit with him. This still impacts him today and has said “I have never been good enough in my entire life, the kids in 5th grade were right.” His mom told him that he just wasn’t a likable kid. Recently his aunt told him that his mom suffered from postpartum and wouldn’t hold him for the first 3-4 months so his grandmother had to move in to take care of him (he’s the oldest). He said his mom was very controlling- if she didn’t approve of something, he didn’t do it. If he didn’t do good in school, she told him how disappointed she was in him. If she didn’t like a friend, he didn’t play with that friend. He says he had an insane desire to please his mom and if he even through his mom wouldn’t like it, he didn’t do it... to include showing his feelings. He admits he married his mom. The only thing he’s ever said about his dad was that he never heard his dad say “I love you” and his dad drilled into him to “never quit.” He admits that is the reason he stayed in his marriage so long. He didn’t want to disappoint his parents (they are now both deceased).

I’m definitely going to look up “object permanence” and JADE. I think these may help. He does want to save the relationship. I don’t doubt for a second his feelings for me. I know they are real. I am also going to research Radical Acceptance. I think that may be harder to do than it sounds. Thank you so much for your words and sharing your story. This site is so incredibly wonderful!

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Dmacs-

I’m so sorry... I wrote a long response to you late last night and right after I previewed it (before I could post it), my iPad crashed.  Very frustrating.  UBPDbf is on his way over, so I’ve no time right now to reconstruct what I wrote.

Please know I’m thinking of you and will get back with you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes