How to make contact when police are involved

[lucidone]

I last made contact with my BPD two months ago, and at this point the police are involved.  Months ago we both told the police that we don't want contact from the other.  It isn't because of anything too serious that got the police involved; when we broke up, my roommate phoned the police when she was lingering around the front street after I told her to leave, and she phoned the police presumably because I didn't give her something that I bought for her while we were together (she also keyed my car, which I had to make a police report for).  There was also the aversiveness of the break up itself.

It's a weird situation.  I don't know where her head is at, but I'm presuming she's painted me black, but even if she wanted to contact me, she may try not because I technically told the police that I don't want contact.  Likewise, if I try to contact her, if I am painted black, she may tell the police that I'm harassing her or something.  And if I don't, then I may never talk to her again.

How could I possibly reconnect with her 'safely'?

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[Harri]

What sort of police involvement is there?  I read your intro post that mentioned she may have keyed your car after the breakup... is that issue resolved?  Is a restraining order involved?

technically told the police that I don't want contact.

[lucidone]

What sort of police involvement is there?  I read your intro post that mentioned she may have keyed your car after the breakup... is that issue resolved?  Is a restraining order involved?

No, nothing like that.  My car got keyed coincidently hours after we had our last fight and breakup (three months ago), I had to make a police report for insurance purposes, police came down weeks later to talk to me directly about the incident and about our relationship.  They asked if they wanted me to tell her to not contact me, and I agreed.  Two weeks later (2 months ago), after doing research, lots of reflection, speaking to various people, going to a therapist, I developed strong suspicions that she is BPD, and I shared that possibility with her via email.  She reciprocated by asking the police to ask me to not contact her anymore either.

[lucidone]

When we were together, I bought a nice robe for her, which she demanded when we were breaking up.  Due to the way she was treating me, and because of pent up resentment and anger, I told her that she couldn't have it. I still have it, and I want her to have it because it's correcting my behavior at the time, but maybe that would also open communications with her.

I offered it to her the last time we talked (roughly three months ago) but she said that she doesn't want it anymore.  She also said that she wished she never met me.  She was pretty mad.  I don't know if she was just raging then or if she still feels that way now.  I'm concerned about touching base with her.  I was considering just mailing the robe to her work without trying to contact her otherwise.  At least she'd get that then.  Either way, I'm not sure if she would try something with the police out of spite though.

[Harri]

Hi.  Thanks for clarifying. 

I am not sure contacting her at this point is wise for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is the possibility of her involving the police again especially considering you did the same to her.   That is a lot to try to overcome and sending her a robe in the mail to her work place is probably not wise given the way things were left and the fact that she told you she no longer wanted it.

The other concern is why you are now looking to get back together with her.  In another thread you mentioned your attachment issue and that you were working on that.  That sort of work takes a long time to sort through, heal and change.  It is great that you recognize the issue and are working on it, I am not sure if enough healing and change has taken place in you so that you are not falling back into the same old patterns.

I am not discouraging you from getting back with her a that is your choice and decision and we will support you.  At least that is not my intention.  I do want to see you in the best possible position to make things work.  IMO it is best to spend a few more months working on you, figuring out your patterns of behavior and changing those and getting strong if there is to be any chance of getting back together.  Does that make sense?  Nothing is going to change in your relationship without significant changes in you.

Thoughts?

[lucidone]

Thanks for the reply.  You're right that sending that robe probably isn't the best thing to do at the moment.  I do really want to get rid of it, but I've also been concerned the way that it'd affect her while she is at work in the moment.  And of course, perhaps she'd take it negatively ini general and do something spiteful or rash.

I don't necessarily want to get back with her.  A requirement for that would be her to realize that she has a personality disorder (or that she's even capable of having some kind of psychological disorder), which she'd need to attempt to work on.  The first step there would be to have some kind of contact.  As for me I'm sure that I do have an attachment issue, and I'm working on underlying insecurity issues.  The main difference between 'then' and 'now', is I understand what kind of issues we both have and am better equipped to deal with them.

The whole thing will take time, both learning how to deal with our respective issues and for us to heal from the damage that we've done to each other.  I suppose my goal for the moment would be to get the ball rolling in some capacity.  However totally open-minded to what others have to say about the situation.  I understand you believe that I should take more time for myself and to let things settle a bit longer.

I'm wondering what her possible mind state is.  I wonder if she's calmed down.  I also wonder if I'm still painted black.  I've read that this kind of thing can be permanent, and even get worse over time, unless something specifically happens to change that, I suppose being painted white again.

[once removed]

I wonder if she's calmed down.  I also wonder if I'm still painted black.  I've read that this kind of thing can be permanent, and even get worse over time, unless something specifically happens to change that, I suppose being painted white again.

when bad breakups happen, there are strong feelings.

its sort of like an adrenaline rush. there can be a sense of "good riddance".

but eventually one or both parties remember that at one time, there was tremendous love, and a history. they dont want the book to end on such a bad note.

i suppose what i would ask is whether you are truly interested in reconciling the relationship and getting back together, or if you want her to think better of you, and end things on a better note.

what do you think?

[lucidone]

but eventually one or both parties remember that at one time, there was tremendous love, and a history. they dont want the book to end on such a bad note.

i suppose what i would ask is whether you are truly interested in reconciling the relationship and getting back together, or if you want her to think better of you, and end things on a better note.

what do you think?

Thanks for the response.  It makes me wonder if she indeed does remember the love and history.  I would imagine for most nons that would be the case.  She seemed to try to move on without much detaching.  She didn't take the time.  I wonder if there's still an attachment to me and she's suppressing by trying to move on with someone else (I'm assuming that she has based on how fast she jumped on a dating website).  It also wouldn't surprise me if she can't form the same kind of attachment to others like nons do.

I definitely don't want things to end as they did.  So wasteful and unnecessary.  I also do want to reconcile, but of course theres going to be more or less the same dynamic and problems, aside from the knowledge and experience that I have now from research and reflection.  Again there would have to be the recognition that she has a particular set of issues and that she is willing to actively work towards.

I look at pictures of us and I'm still sad.  I was tearing up this morning.  So many good times.  So much confusion and irrationality.  So much tragedy.  I'm still not over it.  I believe more and more that when I contact her again to touch base that it needs to be from a position of strength.  I need to be secure.  I need to be comfortable with just myself.  I need to be more 'over' us.  When I contact her I need to be able to be fine whether she doesn't answer me, whether she's with someone else, whether she doesn't accept her flaws, or whether she's not willing to work on those flaws.  Because chances are it's going to be one of those things that will be happening.

I don't know if it's a good idea to put some kind of timeline on contact.  I don't think growth and healing can't be accurately predicted.  I've loosely given myself three months since last contact, which would be mid November.

[once removed]

Again there would have to be the recognition that she has a particular set of issues and that she is willing to actively work towards.

this is a problematic approach.

it says the relationship issues are all hers. is it true?

if it is (and generally, dysfunctional relationship dynamics are about both parties), then its a tall order. youd be relying on a person with a very limited set of skills to "get their  together" as a stipulation of being with them. it says "ill only love you if you change".

and how would one possibly go about it? shed have to demonstrate the interest first. youd be telling her how much work it would be...someone who has largely grieved the relationship will usually pass.

if you want to reconcile, learn the tools. learn to create a very different, more constructive environment in your relationship. think long and hard about the conflict between the two of you, whether its resolvable, and how youre prepared to change your approach.

(learn them regardless. they are life skills that will help you with anyone.)

I believe more and more that when I contact her again to touch base that it needs to be from a position of strength.  I need to be secure.  I need to be comfortable with just myself.  I need to be more 'over' us.  When I contact her I need to be able to be fine whether she doesn't answer me,

youre right about this.

reading between the lines, it sounds like a lot of this is less about reconciling, more about touching base one day and being on better terms. you can do that (i would not make any of it about her flaws). odds are youll know when its time. it is also possible that when that time comes, youll have decided its a chapter better left closed. my ex and i after three years ended on terrible terms. i dreamed of speaking again one day. the ice thawed a very long time ago. id speak to her if she reached out. i think we both decided to keep moving in the other direction. both are perfectly valid. youll know which way you want to go when that time comes.

[lucidone]

it says the relationship issues are all hers. is it true?

if it is (and generally, dysfunctional relationship dynamics are about both parties), then its a tall order. youd be relying on a person with a very limited set of skills to "get their  together" as a stipulation of being with them. it says "ill only love you if you change".

I don't think it does say that the issues are all hers.  I'm well aware that I have some issues.  The difference being that I acknowledge them, am actively trying to be mindful about them, and doing what I can to work on them.  Based on my experience with her, this isn't the case for her.  And perhaps this sounds arrogant, but my issues aren't the kind that are devastating to the health of a relationships as hers are.

and how would one possibly go about it? shed have to demonstrate the interest first. youd be telling her how much work it would be...someone who has largely grieved the relationship will usually pass.

if you want to reconcile, learn the tools. learn to create a very different, more constructive environment in your relationship. think long and hard about the conflict between the two of you, whether its resolvable, and how youre prepared to change your approach.

Yes, there's definitely more that I need to learn about dealing with BPD tendencies.  I think it would have to be a very slow and gentle process.  And it would be from the perspective that we both have our individual issues that we both need to work out; ideally together.

And I still don't know whether I want to do it.  To put all that time and effort into someone who may just discard you suddenly and completely over seemingly nothing.

reading between the lines, it sounds like a lot of this is less about reconciling, more about touching base one day and being on better terms. you can do that (i would not make any of it about her flaws). odds are youll know when its time. it is also possible that when that time comes, youll have decided its a chapter better left closed. my ex and i after three years ended on terrible terms. i dreamed of speaking again one day. the ice thawed a very long time ago. id speak to her if she reached out. i think we both decided to keep moving in the other direction. both are perfectly valid. youll know which way you want to go when that time comes.

It very well could be.  Being on better terms I suppose would be the consolation prize.  And thats great that you were able to eventually move on.  I'm also considering thats what is going to need to happen for me.  Totally appreciate your input on this.

[once removed]

Based on my experience with her, this isn't the case for her.  And perhaps this sounds arrogant, but my issues aren't the kind that are devastating to the health of a relationships as hers are.

on one hand, youre right.

you are presumably the more mature and less difficult partner. if you were to get back together, you would need to be the emotional leader.

on the other (if you want to reconcile), its rarely that simple...your issues vs hers, and more about the issues that the two of you have as a couple. how you both deal with conflict as a couple. to be sure, she may be more prone to instigating conflict than you. but lots of couples fight a lot. the stuff of a relationship built to last boils down to how and whether they resolve it.

dont underestimate the fact that you were a part of that, or the extent of it. it took me a while (years), but when i look back on my relationship, and although it didnt feel that way at the time, i dont think that i was necessarily the healthier partner by any stretch.

and thats sort of where it becomes about one parties issues vs anothers. if you have two people bringing a dysfunctional style to the relationship, does it matter who is bringing more dysfunction? if one party handles something badly, and the other responds to it less badly, things are still going badly.

reconciling your relationship would mean understanding your role in it, how the two of you handle conflict, whether that conflict is resolvable, and how your approach would be different. it requires a deep dive and a hard look.

And I still don't know whether I want to do it.  To put all that time and effort into someone who may just discard you suddenly and completely over seemingly nothing.

i would suggest to you that it wasnt over nothing; it rarely is. there were things about the relationship that worked spectacularly, and things that worked less spectacularly. the latter, ultimately won, and a whole lot of damage occurred.

so. what would change if there was another go?

It very well could be.  Being on better terms I suppose would be the consolation prize.  And thats great that you were able to eventually move on.  I'm also considering thats what is going to need to happen for me.  Totally appreciate your input on this.
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[lucidone]

on the other (if you want to reconcile), its rarely that simple...your issues vs hers, and more about the issues that the two of you have as a couple. how you both deal with conflict as a couple. to be sure, she may be more prone to instigating conflict than you. but lots of couples fight a lot. the stuff of a relationship built to last boils down to how and whether they resolve it.

dont underestimate the fact that you were a part of that, or the extent of it. it took me a while (years), but when i look back on my relationship, and although it didnt feel that way at the time, i dont think that i was necessarily the healthier partner by any stretch.

and thats sort of where it becomes about one parties issues vs anothers. if you have two people bringing a dysfunctional style to the relationship, does it matter who is bringing more dysfunction? if one party handles something badly, and the other responds to it less badly, things are still going badly.

reconciling your relationship would mean understanding your role in it, how the two of you handle conflict, whether that conflict is resolvable, and how your approach would be different. it requires a deep dive and a hard look.

I would love nothing more to fully understand what my role in all of the conflict was.  I've spent my entire life (off and on) working on personal development.  I'm openminded and committed to growth.  I also understand that things don't occur in a vacuum and that there's a relationship dynamic between two people.  There were times when she would blame everything on me, where I'd state we both play a part in it.

I've ruminated over my role in everything and what happened over and over again.  So far I've come to the conclusion that my part in everything was not stating my needs properly, and not setting up proper boundaries.  This contributed to anger and resentment, and in conjunction with how she was behaving at the of time, caused me to lash out and threaten to call the police towards the end of our relationship, which escalated her behavior even more.  Sure I wouldn't have been driven to that point if I was ignoring how dysfunctional the relationshiop was getting, and thats something else that "I did" as well.  All in all I would say that the most significant contributor from me to this relationship not working is that I didn't understand that she had BPD/NPD tendencies, and I didn't deal with them in such a way that is ideal for BPD/NPD.  I dealt with things in a way from a perspective that this is a normal relationship without those kind of special considerations.

I could be wrong, but I simply can't fathom how this is at all comparable to her attitudes and behaviors when it comes to negatively affecting the relationship.  I was attentive and affectionate without it being smothering or clingy.  I encouraged her to communicate without it being demanding.  I was mindful about her needs, and respected her opinions and desires (in regards to what would be realistic).  I listened to every one of her concerns and tried to accommodate her.  Like many people on these boards I tried to bend over backwards for her, but it just wasn't enough for her.  She always had problems with things because there was always a problem with her, more specifically her thinking and emotional state.

Again, I'm not perfect, but in all honesty, she lacks almost every quality that would make for a healthy, functional relationship.  She can't trust, she can't communicate, she can't empathize, she can't understand another's viewpoint.  She only thinks about herself.  She won't accept that she could make a mistake, or have some kind of underlying issue.  The only exception to her complete lack of relationship material was that she had a healthy sex drive.

i would suggest to you that it wasnt over nothing; it rarely is. there were things about the relationship that worked spectacularly, and things that worked less spectacularly. the latter, ultimately won, and a whole lot of damage occurred.

Sure it wasn't actually nothing, just seemingly.  Like her getting mad at me for asking a simple question (without much context here) when really it was her current emotional state that was caused by unrealistic expectations, her devaluing and blaming of me, and her projecting negative qualities onto me.  It seems most of the time the 'nothing' was just the external, observable component of her internal condition.

so. what would change if there was another go?

That's the question.  How much further would I bend to accommodate her.  From experience I believe that it wouldn't be enough, regardless of what I would do.  I'm would work on stating my needs, as well as setting up boundaries, which will be healthy regardless if I'm with her.  I would look into the recommendations on how to associate with those with BPD, and do my part.