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Author Topic: Exasperation is setting in  (Read 526 times)
daughtersdad

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« on: October 17, 2019, 11:20:23 AM »

I have been officially divorced two years now (we were in court for 2 years before that), and I have no idea where this ends.  The quick summary of where I am now. . . Divorced late 2017, 2 daughters, settled custody with initial custody plan was W/TH and alternating weekends, multiple days of trial on money because mom believed she should have 70+% of all assets.  On alternating weekends, I had the girls Friday, Saturday, and Sunday until 8 pm.  (My lawyer said that 8 pm until the next morning school didn't matter - I disagree now).  Last year 16 year old daughter periodically stopped going to Mom's.  We ended up back in court with cross motions to modify.  The Court denied my Motion for a psychological exam.  Finally resolved at youngest pure 50/50 (fixed sunday nights) and oldest 9/14 nights.  Youngest wanted same schedule as oldest but had been waiting to see how things were going to turn out so as not to offend mom and then asked for a change too late for GAL.  During the case, oldest daughter and mom were sent to counseling together.  Counselor indicated to me that while she did not do any testing, she believed mom was BPD, afraid of abandonment and described her as emotionally the level of an adolescent and the issues with mom and oldest daughter were primarily mom's and oldest daughter needed to be supported in boundries with mom.  As an aside, Mom decided she was no longer going to attend therapy with therapist because she was not siding with mom.  Mom now wants to take oldest daughter to new therapist (number 4), I can only assume so we have to start the education process regarding the issues all over again.

At this point, I am just not sure where it ends.  We utilize Our Family Wizard.  Mom won't respond and when she does its just craziness.  For example, oldest recently walked out of mom's house after mom accused her of lying about something I did a year ago.  Mom cancelled a hair appointment for a dance that was set for the following day.  Then Mom didn't talk to daughter the entire weekend.  At the same time mom was OFWing me telling me to make daughter return home. . . When Monday rolled around, daughter was told by a friend at school that mom had called friends mom and was saying daughter was troubled impacting daughters relationship with friend.  Not surprisingly, daughter got off the bus again at my house Monday.  No one likes to be disparaged (mom has something of a habit of talking poorly about others).  I encouraged daughter to contact mom.  I called daughters counselor to get her in.  Mom sent additional messages demanding I "return" daughter - as if I could force a 16 year old to leave (which would be video'd to show what a poor parent I am).  I told mom that (1) I had called a counselor, set up an appointment and was on the call back for emergency list; (2) had encouraged daughter to talk to her; and (3) that daughter told me she was upset that mom had disparaged her to friends.  Mom's response -- everything you said is a lie.  How does one even deal with that?  That same night, I saw younger daughter at a local restaurant with mom, and we all (daugthers and even me) feel like we can't acknowledge each other when Mom is there.  After picking up my take-out, I decided I wasn't doing this anymore and stopped to squeeze youngest daughters shoulder and say hi and mom apparently told her "he has some balls."  Mom believes I can't talk to my daughters in her presence.

Mom doesn't want me to attend events.  For example, Younger daughter has an out of town extracurricular event.  I have OFW messaged mom 3 times about whether younger daughter is attending and she will not respond so I can get reservations (she opened the first but not the subsequent 2).  In my last message, I indicated that I was turning this over to the ADR if I do not have a response.  In addition, Mom and younger daughter discussed changing her school schedule (I was circled into the conversation by younger daughter).  I spoke to the school counselor about the school situation and reached out to mother via OFW about her thoughts.  No response. (This is symptomatic of a long line of not responding).

Anyway, its year 5 and I don't know where it ends.  It started with telling daughters that I was going to walk away from them if she waived child support.  It has continued through lies about me, telling the kids and others that I won't pay for anything (receipts say differently since I pay for virtually everything), smearing me on social media (she posted virtually every day that I was a narcissist for the first few years it has slowed down to a few times a month now),  making scenes at kid events like banquets if I attend on "her day," refusing to talk to kids friends parents if they associate with me,  the pressure on the kids about acknowledging me when we are out, and then the lack communication.  Apparently I am only supposed to parent when she wants me to fix her problems with daughters.  Both daughters and I are really good.  I feel very fortunate because parental alienation is real, and it seems like she tried hard.

I can't help but look at where life is going.  When daughters have kids, when they get married (she has told them that she won't be in pictures with me at their wedding and they may need to choose), graduations, girls going to college and needing to make a choice.  And for my daughters too. . . oldest is ready to cut contact all together.  Youngest is a peace maker.  I'd like to say daughters need their mom, but it seems she is doing more damage than good. 
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 01:26:04 PM »

Welcome.  It's a crazy-making mess, isn't it?

Who has the primary control over doctors and school? Is it mom, or you, or do both parents have equal rights?  My H insisted on sole control over psychological care for SD12 because her mom also doctor shops.

Could you get in legal trouble for not physically returning D16?  In my state, the child doesn't have the option to choose, and I have a friend who was convicted of contempt of court and sentenced to jail because although she brought her 13-year-old to every single exchange, she did not drag the kid out of the car by her hair and stuff her in dad's car. 

If you think that D16 is going to refuse to go to mom's frequently, it might be worth going back to court again.  It sounds like mom is escalating with older daughter, and if she is doing the same with younger daughter - and younger daughter doesn't want to be at mom's that much anyway - you might be able to get more time with both of them.  Or at least, given that mom is not communicating about relevant things with you, get sole ability to decide certain things.

Long-term ... your children are already making their choice. It will become starker as they get older and mom forces the issue more.  They will grieve that mom can't give them the relationship they want, but they'll be okay, because they have you standing solidly in their corner. 
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CoherentMoose
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 01:58:13 PM »

I too welcome you to this board.  Sorry you find yourself here, but I think you'll find the people who participate provide valuable advice.   It's good you use OFW to ensure all communications are recorded.  You may consider taking additional legal steps to protect the children going forward.  That means documentation, documentation, and more documentation of behaviors.   WorriedStepMom and ForeverDad (among many here) have great posts on what they did (or are doing) to protect their (step)children.  You can click on their signatures and see their posts. This site is full of advice on communications (BIFF responses in particular, and no JADEing).  Have you read Bill Eddy's BIFF book? Search on the tools and see what comes up.  Spend time searching threads in here and please continue to post.  Good luck.  jdc
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david
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 02:02:36 PM »

Ex ran away with our two boys in 2007. Took until 2010 to finally get divorce because ex kept dragging things out in the courts. Things got a little better after that but not by much. I'm optimistic by nature so I could be wrong on that. I rarely communicate with ex. Email only. Ex used to send 40-50 emails a month. I learned to minimize communication to 5-10 replies max. Ex started sending less emails. I now get maybe one a month. I haven't replied to any since May. Recently got a few nonsense emails and didn't reply to any. Our youngest is 15 now so I really don't need to communicate with ex about anything. I do all doc appointments, dentist, clothes shopping, etc. Ex never asks about any of it so I don't tell. She is a nurse. Normally, I would think a nurse would be interested in some of those things.
I started parallel parenting in 2010 and haven't looked back.  
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daughtersdad

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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 04:26:24 PM »

Yes worriedstepmom, it is a crazy making mess.  We both have equal decision making over doctors, but we have to agree.  Effectively, I deal with doctors and counselor.  I thought she was doing dental, but she isn't.  So, I do all of that.  We have a write in for our newest custody plan that I think limits the amount of trouble that could be caused by not forcing D16 to return.  There is a very formalized ADR process because this was a know problem.  That process is also the problem with going back to court.  We have only not been in court for about 12 weeks of the last 4 years.  We ended up almost immediately back in court for a motion filed by mom because daughter wouldn't return that was met with my successful custody modification (and her unsuccessful custody modification).  While there was a substantial modification, the Court system doesn't seem enthused about dangling in our high conflict situation instead more intent on having us work it out - which at this point seems unlikely.  But, the problems of the legal system are another issue.  My experience has been that the Court system here doesn't want to award sole legal custody, so it has turned into a work around.

I hope they will be okay.  I try and be solid, but I don't like seeing them struggle with this.  It is just so screwed up to see them pressured in public places and to have to deal with all the instability.

Thanks for the thoughts!
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daughtersdad

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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 04:28:47 PM »

David -- I have been doing the parallel parenting thing as well.  The issue I am having is the non-communication.  When we need to agree about something -- braces, glasses, changing school classes, etc -- and there is just no response.  If I move forward, she takes the position I didn't get her okay.  If I wait for a response, nothing is coming.  It is a no win situation.
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kells76
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 04:54:16 PM »

Hi daughtersdad, welcome.

My husband has two kids, and their mom has a lot of BPD-type behaviors (though she's not diagnosed -- "uBPD"). Her husband (the kids' stepdad) has quite a few NPD-type traits, so my husband ("DH") and I have dealt with the stonewalling, lack of communication, and Mom not taking good care of the kids, as well.

I wonder how it'd go for you -- though you may have tried this already -- if you "build in your action" to your communications. Waiting to hear back from a disordered ex is SO frustrating! What would it be like to frame stuff as "Hi Kids' Mom, the orthodontist needs to know about braces for Daughter. I'm fine with the plan; if I don't hear from you by 4pm this Friday, I'll assume we're good to go and get her in for an appointment."

That way, her non-response won't "stop" you from doing what your kids need.

My stepkids' mom loves "hoarding" communication and info, and she and Stepdad have sent some pretty jawdropping emails about how THEY are the ones who know what info about the kids is important or not, and they're only not telling us stuff "to preserve our relationship with the kids". We haven't been told a LOT of very important stuff. I've started to be not interested in "begging" Mom for info; instead, I just go ahead and do what it looks like the kids need, and if she's interested in what's going on, she can ask me. I was *thisclose* to taking SD13 to the doctor for a concussion. And I didn't plan to tell Mom. That's where we're at.

Anyway, consider crafting your OFW communications so that the "work" goes right back on Mom -- instead of the "work" being on you to wait on her, the "work" is on her to tell you if she DOESN'T agree. So, she can sit around all she wants not communicating, but that "equals" her being OK with you taking care of the kids.

Sigh... glad you found us -- sorry it's such a struggle. I really do understand where you're coming from.

All the best, and keep posting;

kells76
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Eggshellsbroken

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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 05:55:14 PM »

OFW?  Speaking of that, is there a abbreviation reference anywhere in the site?
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wendydarling
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2019, 07:44:13 PM »

Here you go  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Top left green tab at the top of the page, named Help

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319251

WDx
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Be kind, always and all ways ~ my BPD daughter
david
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2019, 07:56:06 PM »

I used to get no reply at times too. I sent a second email telling what I would do if I didn't get a response within 24 hours. If there was no response I considered that an agreement and did what I said I would do. Later I put in our custody agreement that anything pertaining to the kids needed a response within 24 hours. It was what I was doing already but I wanted it to be in writing so there would be no contesting in court. After that I stopped sending the second email.
I got real good at anticipating exs' moves and our last custody agreement I covered everything I experienced and/or anticipated.
I even put a section that said we could change the custody agreement anytime we wanted as long as we had an explicit agreement, in email, from both parents. It was done a few times and whenever I agreed, I also stated this was to be considered a one time event and not a permanent change from our original agreement.
Ex hated our custody order and tried to change things several times. She never had a valid reason so the courts kept the agreement we had.
We had a parent coordinator years ago that changed one part, I don't remember  what it was, but a short time later the state supreme court (in Penn) said that only a judge could change a custody order so that change went back into our order. Because of that ruling parent coordinators have disappeared.  
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2019, 11:00:02 PM »

I really like kells76 and david's advice to put a time frame in getting a response.  Twenty four hours may be too short in some matters, it can depend upon the urgency of a matter.  Shift the burden to the obstructive ex.

State your position, pause and then proceed.  States are very reluctant to grant sole custody, presumably so that one parent doesn't feel the loser and blocked.  Some states will allow joint custody to be modified to set one parent as Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.  The benefit is that you get to ask or notify the other parent and then proceed.   Then it is up to the ex to contest this in court - and probably fail.  Ask your lawyer is that is possible.  The worst that can happen is that your request in court fails.  The flip side is that you may get a decision that helps you immensely.

Side story... I have a relative who didn't ask me about something when I could have helped.  When I inquired, she said I might have said No.  I reminded that I also might have said Yes.  By then it was too late and so it was an effective No.  I pleaded with her to always ask and thus be more positive.

Many of us were far too timid and acquiescing when we first faced the ex and court.  Very important is for the court to discern over time that we are the parents appearing with practical solutions, not just complaints.  And that we have our children's interests at heart.  You're at the place where you can start being more proactive.  Do what you have to do.  You already know, and surely so does the court, you are the better parent, even if court won't state that in so many words.

Look up the words validation and invalidation.  They're important to safeguarding the hearts of your children.  You mentioned that you're at the point of saying the kids don't need their mother.  That's true... as she is.  Sadly, she's not going to change anytime soon.  So deal with her as she is.  Same with the kids, don't invalidate their perceptions by saying seemingly nice words such as "...but she still loves you."  They are observing and recognizing that her actions are damaging to them.  Call it like it is.  And it's okay to support their informed and proper choices.  So validate them appropriately, without veering into bad-mouthing.

Here is a list of helpful topics.  Specifically, review 1.11, 1.12 & 1.13 on Validation.

I agree, you officially no longer have a relationship with her except as the other parent of the children...

Have you read Henry Cloud's Boundaries?

Boundaries are for you, not her.  You already know you can't tell her what to do or not do.  You can't force her to do or not do something, your power is in your response.  However, what can and does work (though there are limits) is something like this... .
"If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."

Examples:
If you start blocking me from our kids... .
... .then I will enforce the parenting schedule, in court if that's what it takes.
If you want extra time for ___... .
... .then I may allow it but with a trade for equivalent time for ___.

When done right "if... .then... ." is powerful.  It took me years to figure how to make boundaries such as these.

Oh, and since this would be a change to your behavior pattern, expect her to flame out with extinction bursts in attempts to make you retreat back into prior compliant, appeasing actions.  She may never fully accept that you will run your own life, but in time she ought to realize you're not acquiescing to her demands as before and not push your boundaries as relentlessly.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 11:05:45 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

worriedStepmom
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2019, 08:51:59 AM »

In our state, the court documents specify first whether you have joint or sole custody and then list each parent's responsibilities and rights.  My H and his ex have joint custody, but the list of responsibilities and rights reads like sole custody.   Basically it means mom has the right to find out about anything, but H has the right to make the bulk of the decisions.

My (non-personality disordered) ex and I have true joint custody.  He goes through phases of stonewalling me on parenting things.  I use the path they recommended above - "If I don't hear from you by X day, I will assume you agree and do < >."  It's worked well and reduced my stress level.
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daughtersdad

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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2019, 09:07:03 AM »

It is a little funny you suggested that approach.  It was something I instituted recently.  It work on things like school schedules.  Alternatively, on the issue of the out of town event, I can't get a response and she won't open the OFW - opened the first but neither follow-up.  In the last follow-up, I told her that if I don't hear back by a date certain I will refer it to the alternative dispute resolution process per our custody order and ask that she be assessed the full costs.  I will probably need to do that, but maybe money will get her attention.
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daughtersdad

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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2019, 09:10:05 AM »

Foreverdad

D16 is really lucky to have a great counselor.  Counselor recently told D16 that mom will never be normal.  Mom will never give her the positive affirmations she wants.  And that D16 needs to understand that will never happen.  She also affirmed to D16 that mom is mentally ill.  D16 is sad but seems to grasp the situation.  Its just heartbreaking.

D13 doesn't want to do counseling, but seems to be adjusting okay.
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daughtersdad

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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2019, 09:11:12 AM »

I agree I was too timid in Court the first time. . . why do you think that is a many of us problem?
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kells76
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2019, 09:30:46 AM »

Excerpt
It is a little funny you suggested that approach.  It was something I instituted recently.  It work on things like school schedules.  Alternatively, on the issue of the out of town event, I can't get a response and she won't open the OFW - opened the first but neither follow-up.  In the last follow-up, I told her that if I don't hear back by a date certain I will refer it to the alternative dispute resolution process per our custody order and ask that she be assessed the full costs.  I will probably need to do that, but maybe money will get her attention.

Glad that's working for the school schedules. Out of curiosity, when you use the "If I don't hear back from you by Friday, I'll assume we're good to go" tactic, does she tend to respond? Or not respond?

...

Out of town event... that's for your D13, right? *digging back in the thread a bit* Ah, yup:

Excerpt
I have OFW messaged mom 3 times about whether younger daughter is attending and she will not respond so I can get reservations

So frustrating. If this were DH's ex, she'd probably be doing it because she sees information as currency and power, and she seems (from my point of view) to love being in a "one-up" position with regards to information.

Any way you can creatively sidestep Mom on this one?

When I decided to call the doctor to see if we needed to take SD13 in for concussion check, I didn't even know which doctor was hers. And I was NOT in a mood to ask Mom -- because I didn't want to play the game of "You have info that I need and you're going to create a power dynamic that you get off on with me". So, I remembered that the C the kids had been seeing was associated with a local pediatrics practice, and called them. Yup, that was it.

With the OOT event, how would it go if you bypassed Mom entirely and got the info from (a) your D13, or (b) whatever group/club is doing the event? Or, perhaps more out on a limb, what if you assumed D13 was going, and just planned for that? Are there concerns that as soon as Mom finds out you're going, she'll not take D13? Or is D13's transportation covered some other way?

Anyway, maybe that's a lot of "looking at trees"  in your "forest", but I thought I'd toss out some ideas for working with what's real about your kids' mom. I spent many years as a stepmom hoping that by sharing information and coordinating, things would go better. For our situation, that only seems to be positive when there is a neutral third-party professional involved. As Mom has not had the kids in counseling for a year or two, things unfortunately seem to go smoother when DH and I "decide and act" versus "ask and wait". I wish it weren't the case, but it is.

Hope some of these ideas are helpful or spark some inspiration. Glad your D's have you!

All the best;

kells76
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Eggshellsbroken

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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2019, 09:59:31 AM »

Here you go  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Top left green tab at the top of the page, named Help

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319251

WDx

thanks WendyDarling, I searched the abbrev board but still can't find OFW.  It's probably obvious but I'm not understanding "OFW communications".
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daughtersdad

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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2019, 10:07:47 AM »

OFW is Our Family Wizard.  It is a communication system that handles emails, calendars, expenses.  You can pretty much use it how you like.  It tracks when messages are sent, opened, when people log on, etc.
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2019, 12:18:24 PM »

The benefit of Our Family Wizard - and there are some other similar apps - is that the professionals involved can also log in to view and even respond to the email history.  No disappeared emails, all the correspondence including login/viewing is documented.

I periodically email my ex for some matters.  But I also have some circumstantial evidence she blocked me from her email account when we separated back in 2005 and so she never reads them.  Yes, some 14 years ago.  She would rely on phones calls, in person confrontations, messages through our son and, more recently, texts.
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2019, 10:38:23 AM »

The issue I am having is the non-communication.  When we need to agree about something -- braces, glasses, changing school classes, etc -- and there is just no response.  If I move forward, she takes the position I didn't get her okay.  If I wait for a response, nothing is coming.  It is a no win situation.

You didn't get her ok because she stonewalls you. Court understands stonewalling, especially in high-conflict situations like ours.

You can show the pattern of stonewalling behaviors. What can she show? That she didn't respond to two, three sometimes more emails? Then got irritated when you did what was best for the kids.

Sometimes we can't get the information, and it sucks, like knowing whether D13 is going to the out of town event. You don't want to show up there and find out no one is there.

But for the other stuff, it might be strategic to start developing a pattern of behavior where you ask for her response and then document the no response. Like the, "I'm doing xyz with the kids. If I don't hear from you by day/date, I will assume you are in agreement." She will then (most likely) send you a doozy of an email about what a jerk you are for assuming anything. So what. Let her take you to court, and use that opportunity to ask for sole legal custody. She is letting the joint legal custody thing go to her head. It's not her right, it's something that can be taken away.

Sole legal custody is not a thing in my state either. And yet I got it. And after 4 years of being in court at least once per month our judge was about done with us. My ex was a former trial attorney who ultimately represented himself after his attorney asked to withdraw and ex kept taking me to court to show the judge what a mean person I was.  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

You might not get what is called sole legal custody but you can effectively have it. Eventually I had primary custody, and sole legal custody (called something else). What I really got was confidence that the court saw me as the reasonable parent. I started sending emails like what
kells76 and david suggest. Framing everything so that her inaction does not prevent you from making decisions is also a winner.

Something weird happens in family court -- they don't want you there. They want you to be a problem solver and stop clogging up the courts with minor stuff so they can deal with the big cases. So if you take things into your own hands, given that they are reasonable things, and can show that mom can't coparent effectively over these reasonable things, then you are helping the court solve their problem, which is seeing too much of you.

I spent so much time in my family court the security guards thought I was a lawyer and kept guiding me to the security lane for lawyers. Repeat customers is not what family court is supposed to be set up for. One and done is how they like to resolve disputes. If the judge sees you as someone who comes prepared with solutions, then you become a team player. You can help them help you do your job as the one stable parent.

Also, the bullying that goes on is probably grinding down your girls in ways that will show up later in life. I'm glad you said hi to your daughter in public. Do it more! Not to be vindictive, to be normal. My son is now 18 and he says he wishes I had protected him sooner. At first I was like, Dude I've been protecting you your whole life. But I see now what he means. I didn't stand up to his dad with a real backbone until my son was 12 or so. My titanium backbone grew in and I started to do things on my terms, which were so reasonable they were downright boring. My son admires me for it, even though some of the dysregulation from his dad flowed downstream to S12.

Get fed up. Your girls will see the new certainty and it will help them going forward, even if it dysregulates mom a bit, which they already experience regardless of what you do or don't do.

They want you to model how they should deal with that level of conflict.

I would also get your D13 into therapy if she is a people-pleaser. She's probably stuffing her feelings and losing tough with how she genuinely feels, and she needs that information to make good choices in life, not just with relationships but with all kinds of things. 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 10:44:59 AM by livednlearned » Logged

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david
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2019, 04:41:47 PM »

I had a situation that may help you. I got a call from the school nurse for our oldest son when he was in high school. The nurse said he had a fever, was nauseous, and all the symptoms. I told the nurse that he was supposed to be with his mom so she should call her. The nurse said she called three times and left a voice message on the second try. I told the nurse I would be there shortly. Picked son up and he was ill. I drove him home and he immediately went to bed.  I sent an email to ex letting her know what happened and that son was in bed. I told her if he didn't feel better I would take him to the doc the next day and I would also contact her about any changes.
I received an email from ex demanding I return her son to her and that I was in violation of the court order. I replied by repeating everything I said in the first email. She replied more agitated than before. I did not reply to that email. I received another email about an hour later that was also cc'd to her attorney stating I was in violation of the court order and that she wanted to go back to court . I ignored that email too. I received a phone call from the police asking me what was going on. I explained the situation, the officer understood, and asked me to reach out to ex one more time. I sent an email letting her know I received a call from the police and then repeated what I said in my other emails.
Ex never took me to court about that situation. I would have liked that to be documented in court but I guess her attorney was able to talk to her client.
I would never have done anything like that the first few years because I was always afraid of never seeing our boys again or at least in a very limited fashion. Eventually I calmed down enough to see past her nonsense.
This past Mothers Day ex asked if she could pick the boys up since they were with me. I agreed. When she dropped them off I asked how things went. Ex tried to convince them that I am the #2 marijuana distributor in the city of Philadelphia and that I grow it all in city parks. I thought they were joking with me but it turned out they were telling me what actually happened. They tried to explain to her how that wasn't true only to have her get more insistent. She finally said she knew this because she spoke to my mother a few weeks prior and that was how she found out. My mother passed away years before that and ex knew that too. I guess she has a sixth sense. I no longer get upset by these things but find them amusing and I also feel sorry for her.
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2019, 06:17:18 PM »

David have you figured out why they do the nonsense lies?  I get stuff like that too. Once the girls and I were in a car driving to an event when mom started texting them and OFWing me about how “someone told her we were in her house.”  Another time she told the girls there were listening devices all over her house that I had snuck in and planted and that I was going in her house when she wasn’t home. She accused my SO of going through her mail and driving past her house. You can’t make that stuff up.  The lies with no basis in reality are what get me. It’s almost like she wants to convince me despite reason. I generally assume when I am accused of something now that there is a 50/50 chance that’s what she is doing.
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2019, 07:15:32 PM »

I used to try to figure it out. I was always stressed, fatigued, worn down. When I stopped trying to figure it out or answer ex about her accusations, I started feeling better.
I learned to think of ex as a stranger that was doing something bizarre and I just happened to be around. I was no longer emotionally attached.
When I stopped trying to figure it out (make sense of it as if I did something like that) it actually became easier to realize something was stressing her or triggering her. Within weeks I usually found out what it was. Sometimes I don't find out. Either way I don't really care except for the fact that our kids still have to deal with her. She is pushing them away by her behaviors, actions, words. I didn't cause it and I can't fix it.
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2019, 07:20:21 PM »

Good advice. Thanks much!
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« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2019, 08:01:31 AM »

I used to try to figure it out. I was always stressed, fatigued, worn down. When I stopped trying to figure it out or answer ex about her accusations, I started feeling better.

Excellent advice.  The only thing you can understand is the high level stuff:
- You cannot reason with them, even using facts or logic
- You will not be able to understand how they think, a lot doesn't make sense
- You cannot negotiate with them
- You can't fix them

Trying to do otherwise will only drain your energy

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