Enmeshed brother meltdown... Thanksgiving mess

[podsnapG]

Hi again,

I am at a loss, exhausted and concerned. My enmeshed brother and BPD SIL are still focused on my husband, who wants to be NC. Now they are keying in on Thanksgiving as a “healing moment “ when they think we’ll all get together at my Mom’s nursing home for T dinner. My brother has been losing it with my 90 yo mother (on the phone) accusing her of not doing enough to get my husband to see them again. It is ridiculous but concerning because my mom gets so upset. she has AFib and says her heart races when he does this. This is about the third time he’s done this to my mom. Instead of calling me, he triangulates through Mom, knowing she’ll talk to me. Why do they care if he’s not there? I hate this.

Yesterday he told her I should call him. So today I did- told him that we could have Thanksgiving at my Mom’s, but that my H wouldn’t be coming. He said “Then we’re not coming, either” and hung up. I guess he lost it, because later he called my Mom and accused her again of not trying to get my H to attend. It is so ridiculous. Instead of focusing on my Mom for Thanksgiving, he (and SIL) can only focus on themselves and my H. There is no love lost between my H and them, I don’t think they even like him, and they blame him for everything.

I’m going to speak to my mom’s hospice social worker, to see if she can talk to my brother. I can’t- he just gets angry at me. I’m concerned about his mental health, at this point, as well as my mom. I am also considering talking to my nephew, who works along side his Dad, not to turn him against his Dad, but to express my concern. I’m sure my nephew has been getting an earful of Bro’s rage at me and my H. I am reluctant to get him involved, but it’s gone to a new level upsetting my mom like this. Maybe he can at least convince them to attend Thanksgiving even without my H, for Mom’s sake.

I’m handling this pretty well, considering I’ve just given up drinking (day 5) But I sure wanted a stiff drink tonight. My H and I are going to be here for my mom for as long as she’s around, after that- we’re outta here.

Thank again everyone for being here. Courage to you all.

[Harri]

Hi podsnapG!

First, congrats on the no drinking!   

I’m going to speak to my mom’s hospice social worker, to see if she can talk to my brother. I can’t- he just gets angry at me.

I think this is a good idea given that your mom is in care and needs support as your brother pressures her.  Medically she is fragile.  So sad that your brother can't seem to see that or if he does, chooses to ignore it in favor of his own needs. 

I am also considering talking to my nephew, who works along side his Dad, not to turn him against his Dad, but to express my concern. I’m sure my nephew has been getting an earful of Bro’s rage at me and my H. I am reluctant to get him involved, but it’s gone to a new level upsetting my mom like this. Maybe he can at least convince them to attend Thanksgiving even without my H, for Mom’s sake.

I am not sure about getting your nephew involved directly though of course that is your call.  Realistically, what are the pros and cons of your brother not attending Thanksgiving?   Ultimately it is his choice to attend or not.  It is not his right to abuse your mom or issue emotional threats.  Have you ever talked to him about the affect his conversations with your mom on her health?  Has she ever said anything to him?

[Notwendy]

This looks like more triangles than a geometry book.

Karpman triangles:

You, H and your brother.
You, your brother, his wife,
You, your brother, his nephew.

It seems each of you is making something contingent on the other(s) in the triangle rather than to deal directly.

Bro and SIL are trying to get to your H through you, or your mother.
Your H won't have Thanksgiving with your mother if your Bro and SIL are there.
They won't go unless your H is there.

Some families operate this way- through the Karpman triangle- it's drama and it's crazy making.

Then there's this illusion that you all have to pull it together to (pretend) to be one happy family for Thanksgiving. Yes, it would be great if everyone could just do it for your mother, but it doesn't look like they are willing to.

Your H doesn't want to. Now your bro is digging his heels in unless someone makes your H do it.

IMHO- you all care about your mother but don't want to have dinner together. This is reality.  Families tend to have these rigid rules- have to have this holiday just a certain way but it is possible for the two of your families to visit mother on Thanksgiving at different times. If your bro and sil won't go for Thanksgiving if your H doesn't- then fine, they don't. It's on them. Maybe you and your H can go have breakfast with her on Thanksgiving instead. Be creative. Just don't make your plans contingent on anyone besides you and your H. It doesn't have to be a triangle.

[podsnapG]

Thanks Harri and Notwendy

It’s been a week now without alcohol. It’s helping in a number of ways... thinking more clearly helps me see the situation more rationally. But there are certain moments I’d love to have a glass of wine, or two or three, to blunt the feelings. Exercising like crazy helps.

Thanks for supporting my idea about getting the social worker involved. Putting my brother’s behavior in terms of emotional abuse is an eye opener. He knows if he gets her upset, I’ll get involved. It worked yesterday- I was so angry at him that I texted SIL, telling her that Mom has AFib and is 90 (which she knows) and bro should stop getting mad at her. Big mistake, she turned it all around in her reply, which I didn’t respond to. Today she texted again to invite me to lunch tomorrow! I’m busy and can’t go, she’s an hour away and I’m suspicious of her angle, but here we go again. Wished I hadn’t fallen for it again. But I am learning.

NotWendy & Harri- you are right about getting my nephew involved. I’ve had second thoughts. When I call him today I’ll just say hello. No other news or information, the less I say the better. He is in a difficult situation- I don’t want to make it worse for him. Triangulating with him and my brother is just wrong.

Thanks for setting my head straight Notwendy... that’s just what I needed to hear. The only triangle I want is my mom, H and I enjoying each other and some good food, whenever. Thanksgiving has never been a Thing for me... it’s usually just been my H and a friend or two when we lived blissfully far away from you know who. This year it’s become way overblown and I’ve been drawn in. I’ll focus on the three of us and avoiding them.

Thank you thank you thank you. I’ll let you know how it goes.

*Update- my nephew just called and we talked about everything. I didn’t bring up Thanksgiving, but he wanted to know what was going on between his parents and us. I explained everything (without mentioning BPD) He assured me that it would stay between us. I made sure he knew to keep things to himself and not to try to intervene. He thinks I should talk to my SIL to explain why, as he says she is really hurt. Sh#t. I could use a drink now, but won’t. I feel like I should explain everything to her, but last time I tried, she turned into a prosecuting attorney and turned it all around. My head was spinning for days. I feel I owe it to my nephew to talk to her. I suddenly feel like all my lessons learned have vanished.

[Harri]

Hi again!

That is great about not drinking.  It is such a hard thing to put down the bottle, or stop any behavior that numbs us.  I struggle with that too, tho not with alcohol.  What sort of support do you have for this?  Do you feel you need support?

He knows if he gets her upset, I’ll get involved. It worked yesterday- I was so angry at him that I texted SIL... she turned it all around in her reply, which I didn’t respond to.

It is good that you can see that it was a mistake to text your sister in law.  Getting a neutral 3rd party professional involved whose role is to act in your moms best interest is something else.  

But I am learning.

Yes, you are learning.  It takes time to get it so don't beat yourself up just learn from this and move on.   Notwendy is the resident expert on drama triangles and explains the roles very well... and she can spot them too.

*Update- my nephew just called and we talked about everything. I didn’t bring up Thanksgiving, but he wanted to know what was going on between his parents and us. I explained everything (without mentioning BPD) He assured me that it would stay between us. I made sure he knew to keep things to himself and not to try to intervene. He thinks I should talk to my SIL to explain why, as he says she is really hurt. Sh#t. I could use a drink now, but won’t. I feel like I should explain everything to her, but last time I tried, she turned into a prosecuting attorney and turned it all around. My head was spinning for days. I feel I owe it to my nephew to talk to her. I suddenly feel like all my lessons learned have vanished.

I would leave it podsnap.  He is trying to rescue his mom and play peacemaker here.   If SIL wants an explanation or to ask a question she needs to contact you herself.  You then get to decide how you want to respond, remembering not to JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain).

Sometimes we act as a rescuer, persecutor or even a victim to self soothe.  We have an article that delves into the drama triangle roles in depth.  Take a look at it.  The Three Faces of Victim It is an excellent article and hard hitting to IMO.  It is hard to see how we participate in the drama triangles and sometimes even use them ourselves to sooth our own discomfort with conflict or when changing our roles and how we interact with family.  Many of us here do this so please do not feel like I am singling you out.  I still get caught up in rescuing and then I feel like a victim when it blows up in my face.  

See what you thing pod  

[Notwendy]

I would leave it podsnap.  He is trying to rescue his mom and play peacemaker here.   If SIL wants an explanation or to ask a question she needs to contact you herself. 

Yes, I agree with this. Don't be too hard on yourself for getting involved. Dysfunctional families seem to interact on this type of Karpman triangle. I don't know how old your nephew is, but his behavior isn't unusual for a child who has a BPD mother. He may not be aware of it. It is the "normal " in his family and it is probably all he knows to do.  I also felt I needed to "rescue" and take care of my mother's feelings.

But whose feelings are they? Your SIL. She's an adult. It's not your nephew's responsibility to take care of them. But this is probably the pattern in this family. He called you up to "rescue" his mother.

You have the opportunity to be a different role model for your nephew by not participating in these types of triangles. But it takes practice- don't be hard on yourself if you slip- next time you will be aware.

[podsnapG]

Notwendy- you are so right about my nephew trying to rescue his mom. I understand that. I did not call her, but she had contacted me about getting together, and after talking to my nephew I decided to see her, not to convince her of anything (impossible) but to do it for myself and to express the concerns about my Bro lashing out at my mom. I realize it’s also for my nephew, so he knows I at least attempted closure for his mom. (I knew I wouldn’t achieve that!) He knows that the situation with my H will not change, so I didn’t give him false hope in that regard.

I prepared for meeting SIL by reading Three Faces of the Victim ( thank you for that, Harri!) That was so enlightening to understand how fluid the roles are, and how we all cast ourselves as victims in the end. The importance of staying outside the triangle makes even more sense. I also watched some YouTube videos by Dr. Les Carter, a psychotherapist who specializes in dealing with people with NPD. Lots of good advice about how to maintain focus and not get triggered into anger or get caught up in the games.

Anyway, I had coffee with SIL this morning. It went pretty much as I expected, with her wanting explanations. She pretty much invalidated whatever I said,  laid on the FOG heavily, asking lots of questions and hypotheticals to try to put me off balance and question myself and my H. The good news is that I think I handled myself pretty well. I didn’t fall for the FOG, I did do some Explanation of how things got to this point, but tried not to JAD! I returned frequently to essentially “This is what is best for me... this is my perspective “ I kept a very even tone and not overly expressive. She thinks I am cold when I do that... whatever! We had some lighthearted moments, too, but when discussing my boundaries and experience, I was toned down. I did bring up that it is unacceptable for my Bro to get mad at my mom, and SIL said she agreed. I also told her I would not engage with my brother if he was angry.

It was not a perfect interaction... I may have talked more than I wanted to, but at this point, I don’t care what she does with my words. I feel I stayed true to myself. I feel exhausted tonight, but glad to know I have the strength to keep my values and boundaries intact and not get angry/reactive. Now that we’ve had this interaction, I know she will try again to lure me in. Maybe I’ll be even better prepared next time.

Harri- I do feel supported in my going alcohol free, thanks for asking. I started reading This Naked Mind and joined the online community thisnakedmindcommunity.com. It’s a real eye opener.

Appreciate all the support here!