Guilt, shame and hope

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

I have been struggling with shame lately. My shame stems from the things I do when I am feeling out of control and desparate.

I know it happens when I am reminded of my past.  It feels like a failure when I give in to bpd impulses like fear of abandonment and act like a crazy person.

Just wondering how to or even if  I should forgive myself for bpd behaviour. 

[Zabava]

Hi all,

I have been struggling with shame lately. My shame stems from the things I do when I am feeling out of control and desparate.

I know it happens when I am reminded of my past.  It feels like a failure when I give in to bpd impulses like fear of abandonment and act like a crazy person.

Just wondering how to or even if  I should forgive myself for bpd behaviour. 

[Harri]

Hi Zab. 

That is an interesting question about whether or not to forgive yourself for having BPD behavior. 

How about looking at it as accepting that you do have a fear of abandonment and act in certain ways when that is triggered?  Lots of people have that fear and it drives their behaviors in relationships, not just pwBPD. 

Forgiveness is not going to happen if you can't accept that you have this behavior, that there is a reason for it, and that it does not define you or set your value as a human being. 

As for the shame, the only way to heal that is to get it out in the open and talk about it in a safe environment and with safe people.  So why not start with sharing one thing you do when you are in the grip of fear of abandonment?

[Zabava]

Harri,

When I am the grip of the fear of abandonment I have suicidal ideation.  I start thinking about how to leave and then I remember my kids.

I feel crazy when I lie awake thinking about ways to go and then wake up and keep going like it everything is fine.

I am actually mostly ok these days, but when it's bad it's really bad. 

Maybe I am scared of letting go of being a victim or helpless, I don't know.

[Harri]

 

Hi Zab.  Suicidal ideation is tough to deal with.  I've been there.  I only had a plan once, and that time coincided with a serious infection and a mess up of my medication, but I spent most of my 20's and 30's wanting my life to just be over.  I felt I was finished and wanted to go home.  Rarely, I still feel that way.  So as much as I can, I think I understand some of what you are experiencing.

It is tough.   One thing I do know is that those feelings are temporary and if you can just wait them out, you will feel better.  I assume your T is aware and is on top of this with you right?  I also know you have reached out to hotlines and even to us here.  All of those things show strength and are in fact very healthy responses to have.  It does not make it any easier though does it?

Maybe I am scared of letting go of being a victim or helpless, I don't know.

I don't know either.  I know change can be a trigger for a lot of people and we have had lots of members fight through changing as they heal (myself included... I did a lot of kicking and screaming in my head and that altered with being frozen in fear).  I am not sure how to help you with this to be honest though I am willing to listen.   I do know that even being open to the possibility you have been holding on to being a victim or are afraid of being helpless if you change are huge steps!  It takes courage and strength to get there Zab. 

Can you focus on the fact that SI has been a part of your life for a long time and it will still rear its head yet you will get through it as you have proven time and again?  That feeling the fear of abandonment and the SI that results is simply a part of your healing process?  That in a way it makes sense that you will have these struggles? 

I am just thinking out loud with you.

What do you think?

[Zabava]

I think I feel very sad and I do feel like a hopeless case.  I'm sorry. I have been through a lot, but no worse than many others.  I feel defeated.  I want to go but I am too weak and afraid of death.  


I am not trying to be dramatic or elicit sympathy, I am just stating the facts.  I hate myself for real.

[Harri]

I am not trying to be dramatic or elicit sympathy, I am just stating the facts.  I hate myself for real.

I know.  I believe you when you say you hate yourself.  I am not sure how to help you with that.     Do you want to change that belief? 

[Kwamina]

Hi Zabava

These kinds of thoughts and feelings that you are experiencing, can be very difficult to deal with it. Glad to see you continue to reach out for support though.

I think I feel very sad and I do feel like a hopeless case.  I'm sorry. I have been through a lot, but no worse than many others.  I feel defeated.  I want to go but I am too weak and afraid of death.  

I am not trying to be dramatic or elicit sympathy, I am just stating the facts.  I hate myself for real.

We all deal with things differently, even when we might have had exactly the same experiences, this does not have to mean that we all will be affected in the same manner. From my objective perspective, you've been through a lot and the current situation with your husband's behavior also isn't ideal.

It might help to look at this from a different perspective. If someone else was feeling the way you do right now, how would you feel about that person? Would you hate that person or would you believe that person is worthy of love and support and would you try to empathize with and help that person?

The Board Parrot

[Zabava]

I'm not sure Kwamina.  I think I might feel empathy but not so much hope.

You're right that my husband's behaviour is a hindrance to my recovery.  I have been facing some tough issues in therapy and my T.  has advised me not to confide in my husband to protect myself from hurt.

I am wading into the feelings of my past and it is very, very hard.  I realize I am dysregulated and having extreme emotions right now.  Harri is right, I do genuinely hate the person I am in the grip of distress.

One thing I am ashamed of is that I have reached out to friends and helplines for support but not my own spouse.  I am feeling like an imposter because I have had a whole nervous breakdown and a serious depression and my husband is oblivious.  I have tried to tell him and talk to him, but he doesn't seem to understand. 

I am actually grieving my past in therapy now, which I think is positive, but it is hard not to have emotional support at home.  Which is why I post here and I feel bad about it.  I feel so embarrassed and needy. 

[Kwamina]

Well empathy is good, that's a basis upon which hope and love can develop if we work on it. And the PSI community, of which you are an important part, is here to work with you If you were to empathize with someone in your situation, what would you say to that person?

…..it is hard not to have emotional support at home.  Which is why I post here and I feel bad about it.  I feel so embarrassed and needy.  

It is hard indeed not to have that emotional support at home. This place, this board, is specifically designed for family-members of BPD parents. You are in need of support and support is exactly what we are here for to give It is ok to have needs, and it is ok to take steps to get those needs met. To quote our friend Pete Walker:

"Own your right/need to have boundaries. Remind yourself that you do not have to allow anyone to mistreat you; you are free to leave dangerous situations and protest unfair behavior. "

"Figure out what you are flashing back to. Flashbacks are opportunities to discover, validate and heal our wounds from past abuse and abandonment. They also point to our still unmet developmental needs and can provide motivation to get them met. "

Growing up, were you allowed to have needs of your own? How did your mother view your own needs?

The Board Parrot

[Zabava]

Growing up I was constantly stepping on minefields that set off my mother's anger.  When she was angry she was violent and emotionally abusive.  She also was extremely anxious, so normal behaviour for kids like riding a  bike or playing out of sight caused her to panic.

As I got older she would interpret any sign of anger or sadness as an attack or criticism.  She also discouraged my sister and I from forming attachments to people outside our family.  She told us that the world was an evil place and you could only rely on your "blood relatives'.

My mother loved me as long as I was enmeshed with her and supported her narrative of victimization.  When I rebelled or fought back she got very angry, called me names and threatened to kill me. 

For example, "you little b..., I'll beat the living daylights out of you"  or more directly, I'll f..cking kill you, you f...ng b..."

[Kwamina]

It is very sad that your mother said those horrible things to you. How old were you when she started to make those extreme threats of violence?

It's very tough for a child to grow up in such an environment. The constant threat of violence coupled with the extreme anxious energy, makes it nearly impossible to relax and enjoy anything.

I can relate to many things you say such as the emotional abuse, your mother's anxiety and discouraging the forming of attachments to anyone outside of the immediate family. In fact my mother made it nearly impossible even within the immediate family to have any true stable attachments with anyone Playing outside was not allowed for me which made the house feel like a prison. Interesting that you mention riding a bike, my mother actually refused to teach me how to ride a bike. When I asked her she just turned her back to me and said nothing...memories.

So yeah, growing up with a BPD parent can be extremely challenging and deeply affect children. Dealing with these kinds of memories is challenging. Fortunately as adults we can make choices now which can help us heal these wounds from the past and grow in ways we were not allowed to before, ways we might not even had thought possible anymore. The work you do here and with your therapist is a clear sign to me of your commitment to moving forward in a new more positive way The thing with healing and growth though, is that it does not necessarily always feel like we are healing and growing. Healing often is painful and more often then we probably will like, will feel like we are moving backwards instead of forwards. The healing path isn't linear though and also includes unexpected detours, twists and turns. As long as we persist and keep on trucking, to quote our Panda39, I do believe progress can be made. Important in all of this is to step out of our isolation and reach out to others such as you are doing here and in therapy

Here on PSI we can reimagine our destiny and the road that lies ahead, as we ignite a transformative healing & growth process

The Board Parrot

[Zabava]

I believe I was maybe 5 or 6, I'm not sure.  I vividly remember riding my tricycle around the block and out of sight around 4 years old.  I think I was just trying to get away or explore, but my mum freaked out because she thought I was lost.  I don't know for sure but I think I got smacked and screamed at.

I know she grabbed us by the hair and threw us down when she was angry.  I think the threats started to escalate as I got older.  I think from about 6 to 12 were the euphemistic threats (beat the living daylights out of you, give you something to cry about, etc.).  As a teenager I grew more submissive but when I stood up for myself the threats were more explicit (eg. I  will fu...ing kill you).

She pushed against walls and kicked us when she was angry so the threats to kill us seemed believable to me and my sister as kids.

As for bike riding, I learned to ride a bike with the help of a friend.  When I got going with pedalling I felt triumphant but my  mother saw me and screamed at me for riding on the road ( a very quiet street by the way)  I was startled and scared and fell off the bike.  This has bern the story of my life.

I am sorry that you were isolated as a child.  It is very lonely to grow up that wsy.

[Kwamina]

Growing up like that is a quite lonely and also quite confusing experience indeed.

Good thing I've morphed into The Board Parrot now which has given me a new perspective. I look at everything from a bird's eye view now

Your mother's threats and physical violence were horrible. It's such a scary and confusing experience when one's own mother is the one abusing you. Instead of her being the person you could run to for care, support and protection, she instead exhibited harmful behavior from which you actually needed to be protected.

Do you feel like you've been able to (start to) heal from those particular experiences of being threatened and physically abused?

[Zabava]

Hi Kwamina,

 I have been trying to heal from those times by talking to my T. about how I tried to cope as an adolescent.  I have been working to feel the bad stuff without getting overwhelmed. 

I have realized that it is a long process and I can't find a magic solution.  I have allowed myself to cry with my T.  for the first time and I feel like there are many more tears to shed. 

It may sound silly but I am trying to connect to my little self and protect her.  It makes me feel calmer.

Thanks for listening.

[Kwamina]

It is a long process indeed, and it does really help to have support from a T and the PSI community to help you feel and talk your way through things.

I have allowed myself to cry with my T.  for the first time and I feel like there are many more tears to shed.

Yes, Pete Walker says it like this: "Allow yourself to grieve. Flashbacks are opportunities to release old, unexpressed feelings of fear, hurt, and abandonment, and to validate - and then soothe - the child's past experience of helplessness and hopelessness. Healthy grieving can turn our tears into self-compassion and our anger into self-protection."

It may sound silly but I am trying to connect to my little self and protect her.  It makes me feel calmer.

Actually doesn't sound silly at all to the Board Parrot Doing inner child work is very important when you've been abused as a child. Pete Walker also writes about how important it is to speak reassuringly to the inner child, because that inner child (your little self) 'needs to know that you love her unconditionally- that she can come to you for comfort and protection when she feels lost and scared.'

Healing does take time and can feel like a rocky ride with ups and downs, but you are definitely putting in the work and I think just getting your story and how you feel out here, is already a significant sign of progress And also very helpful to other members, also people who might not be posting but are silently reading here and are going through the same thing. By sharing we are helping ourselves and actually also others so thank you for opening up Zabava

The Board Parrot