Punitive measures - Part 2

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here     https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339941.0

Gems and Enabler, thank you, but anger is not always a bad thing.

Jumping to conclusions is based on a number of observed behaviours over the past.  If someone repeatedly does something, it's logical to predict he will do it again.  To think a person with BPD will, all of a sudden, behaved differently is not looking at previous outcomes.  It's almost magical thinking.

In me, it's the result of years upon years of being emotionally abused and having my H favor his (now) adult children over me.  In their teen years, H actually let one of the children threaten to physically abuse me while they lived with us (uNPD XW kicked each teen out of her house when each turned 18); H literally turned his back in defence of me.   I was shocked at his cowardice.  Left to myself, I made a well placed bit of verbal defence that got that child to back down.  He never got in my face ever again.

Anger, or better yet indignation (justified anger), is a way of letting you know something is wrong.  It's a reaction to my being abused.  (H's children made him into a door mat.)  Lundy Bancroft discusses this in his books on abusive men.  (H never put a hand on me, but he has done other types of domestic violence in the form of emotional and psychological abuse, emotional blackmail, and had broken objects such as walls and my property.)  

I have no reason to change my wanting my just rights honored as a W.  Talking to H hasn't worked (and I have tried) as BPDs see their children as extensions of themselves.  H splits them white and me black.  Talking to H only ends up with him asserting what he already believes (that his children are perfect and do no wrong, even in the proof of major poor life decisions, including suicide attempt), and then H name calls, insults and makes divorce threats.

The late Dr. Scott Peck stated that those in relationship with BPDs tend to be neurotic, and at best, enable their BPD partners.  (BPDs find partners who are either NPD or codependent.)  I agree with this.  Not feeling the just anger is a way of enabling my H in his abuse of me.

I know I can be the one to extend a peace offering and smooth things over, but I am getting sick of it.  I only do so for now because I have other things in my life that will be disrupted with a divorce.  I want to be married to a man with mature, adult emotions and not a man with the EQ of a toddler or a teenager.

[AskingWhy]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here     https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339941.0

Gems and Enabler, thank you, but anger is not always a bad thing.

Jumping to conclusions is based on a number of observed behaviours over the past.  If someone repeatedly does something, it's logical to predict he will do it again.  To think a person with BPD will, all of a sudden, behaved differently is not looking at previous outcomes.  It's almost magical thinking.

In me, it's the result of years upon years of being emotionally abused and having my H favor his (now) adult children over me.  In their teen years, H actually let one of the children threaten to physically abuse me while they lived with us (uNPD XW kicked each teen out of her house when each turned 18); H literally turned his back in defence of me.   I was shocked at his cowardice.  Left to myself, I made a well placed bit of verbal defence that got that child to back down.  He never got in my face ever again.

Anger, or better yet indignation (justified anger), is a way of letting you know something is wrong.  It's a reaction to my being abused.  (H's children made him into a door mat.)  Lundy Bancroft discusses this in his books on abusive men.  (H never put a hand on me, but he has done other types of domestic violence in the form of emotional and psychological abuse, emotional blackmail, and had broken objects such as walls and my property.)  

I have no reason to change my wanting my just rights honored as a W.  Talking to H hasn't worked (and I have tried) as BPDs see their children as extensions of themselves.  H splits them white and me black.  Talking to H only ends up with him asserting what he already believes (that his children are perfect and do no wrong, even in the proof of major poor life decisions, including suicide attempt), and then H name calls, insults and makes divorce threats.

The late Dr. Scott Peck stated that those in relationship with BPDs tend to be neurotic, and at best, enable their BPD partners.  (BPDs find partners who are either NPD or codependent.)  I agree with this.  Not feeling the just anger is a way of enabling my H in his abuse of me.

I know I can be the one to extend a peace offering and smooth things over, but I am getting sick of it.  I only do so for now because I have other things in my life that will be disrupted with a divorce.  I want to be married to a man with mature, adult emotions and not a man with the EQ of a toddler or a teenager.

[once removed]

Not feeling the just anger is a way of enabling my H in his abuse of me.

AW,

is anyone suggesting you not feel angry? or that you at least try to deal with that anger in a constructive way?

is picking a fight with your husband and needling him until he reacts, and then mocking him and ridiculing him and insulting him really standing up for yourself? if hes really that bad, do you gain anything by competing for who can stick it to whom the most?

given the palpable contempt you have for his children, is it him putting them first/above you, or is it you feeling insecurity and resentment and trying to come between them rather than constructively communicate a desire for love and attention?

isnt there a middle ground here between being a total doormat and constantly poking the bear?

You think your partner deserves it. How could this possibly be resolved unless one (and eventually both) of you steps back mindfully and see that, as Gandhi said, "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

[AskingWhy]

given the palpable contempt you have for his children, is it him putting them first/above you, or is it you feeling insecurity and resentment and trying to come between them rather than constructively communicate a desire for love and attention?

isnt there a middle ground here between being a total doormat and constantly poking the bear?

Thank you, OR, but I am very hurt by your inference that I am trying to  come between my H and his children.  Your assessment is common in those who are not step parents or a step parent who has good relations with their stepchildren.  Those people cannot, for the life of them, understand the true agony of having a spouse's children antagonise them.

Are you a step father yourself?

Your assessment seems to be blaming the victim.  I have stated on numerous occasions how all of my stepchildren (now adults) are in some spectrum of personality disorder (BPD or NPD); their mother, who divorced their father when they were all very young children in nappies so she could marry her lover, is most likely NPD.  I have noted the long list of aberrant behaviours (substance abuse, alcohol and drugs), homelessness, suicide attempts, promiscuity and other risky behaviour, and expulsion from military service.

You state I am trying to "come between" the children and their father.  I am hurt and insulted at this.  On the contrary, I tried to foster relationships between my H and his children when I married him.  I tried to get them to call him or send occasion cards, and remember his birthday and fahter's day.  Instead, their mother made certain (again, she is uNPD) the children were aliened from their father, and she openly insulted him in front of his own children; she spent a good portion of the C/S money on herself and her lover-turned-husband with fine things and frequent new cars.  In time, the children grew to adolescence and adulthood, and learned their father was a guilt-ridden pushover (search "Disney dad," "Disneyland dad," and "divorce"), and they used emotional blackmail (withholding their presence and affection) to get money and expensive gifts.

Dynamics with BPDs, including their children, family members and ex spouses is complex.  You have presumed the children are mentally healthy.  Thank you for allowing me to add perspective to what I am facing.   There are a number of people (on this board and elsewhere) who are step parents who would understand what I am going through and have suffered abuse.  (One of my stepchildren threatened me with physical violence, and they have all tried to get my H to divorce me.)

I am not "poking the bear" (this implied a deliberate action and expected result) but merely reacting in a manner of some one who is exasperated.

[once removed]

I am hurt and insulted at this.

the words may sting, AskingWhy. but i say them to try to reach you, to try to break through. to help.

youre stuck in a really entrenched mindset, and destructive actions. members are trying to tell you this; you dont have to live your life that way.

I have stated on numerous occasions how all of my stepchildren...

in virtually every post that you make, you say something negative (or worse) about his children and his relationship with them. youve detailed how you "put them in their place".

you have made numerous posts detailing how you criticize your husband to his face about his relationship with his children.

all of these things alienate you from your family, AskingWhy. they dont invite love and attention or understanding - the things you seem to want from your husband.

Your assessment seems to be blaming the victim.

you seem to see yourself as someone whom has been neglected, an outcast, an outsider in your family, and youre angry about it.

im suggesting that your actions, your feelings, the way you go about trying to communicate and meet your needs, have a lot more to do with it than you have been willing to see. youve said it all before AW. you dont respect your husband or his children, you have contempt for them. honest question: what do you expect?

[AskingWhy]

OR, how do you suggest I deal with an adult step child who threatens me with violence, a step child who tells me to "go to h*ll" while the father turns a blind eye, and a step child who is addicted to drugs, makes suicide attempts and gets thrown out of the military?

A father's second wife makes a great punching bag when things don't go right for his children and it's easy to blame her. On the other hand, the mother (uNPD) is blameless (her children have conveniently forgotten the adultery), is now on her third marriage (her second H cheated on her) and living (one assumes) happily with a man many years her junior.  

To "accept" my mistreatment is enabling and codependent.  Dr. Scott Peck stated that those in R/S with BPDs are neurotic, and I don't want to accept the mistreatment nor agree that I somehow brought it on myself.

https://www.thedivorceangels.com/i-divorced-a-disney-dad/  

[once removed]

To "accept" my mistreatment

AskingWhy,

its hard to have a constructive conversation in such black and white terms.

members have given you lots of constructive advice as to how you could improve, or at least find more comfort in your circumstances. no one has suggested you "accept mistreatment", and that you see anything less than provoking your husband as accepting mistreatment says a great deal about how far things have broken down, and how you view your husband.

nor agree that I somehow brought it on myself.
...
a step child who tells me to "go to h*ll"

Left to myself, I made a well placed bit of verbal defence that got that child to back down
...
I played her at her own game with a well chosen verbal comment about her weight problem (she was twice my size and less than half my age.)

do you think that attacking your step childs weight problem might alienate you as a mother? do you think its a constructive response, ever? do you think "go to hell" is a surprising or unnatural response?

[AskingWhy]

Thank you, OR, again.  Writing on a forum allows others to misconstrue facts and context.  This is the "conflicted/just tolerating" forum and it appears you are tendering advice on how to make things better.

I was wondering why you chose not to answer whether or not you were a step parent, and if so, whether or not you were on good terms with your stepchildren.  This would have said volumes about your replies and your ability to empathise with a person who had a partner's children abuse both the partner and the spouse.

Also, you have confused the facts about members of the family.  It is not always easy on a forum.

The woman who threatened me with physical harm is likely NPD.  She was a bully in grade school and also the workplace when she was older, and who, among other acts of bullying, caused a coworker to be transferred to a company branch many miles away.  No one had the guts to challenge her and play her at her own game.  I simply gave her a taste of her own medicine.  She was stunned in that she never expected me to counter what she said.  In fact, she was speechless.  She never again said any thing else to challenge my authority under my own roof.  In fact, she respected my authority and understood that I would not be bullied.  Bullies are often NPDs (or APDs) and usually bully because people are afraid of them and don't challenge them.  They use the tool of fear to make people cower.  There is nothing wrong with what I did.  I wish I did not have to resort to it, but to make threats to hurt a person is not only unacceptable, but also illegal.  She bullied me and I made her back down.  If a person makes a verbal attack to you and you say nothing, you are, in their eyes, nothing more than a coward and then more bullying will certainly ensue.  (P.S. If someone physically attacks you, do you just stand there and allow yourself to get punched?  No.  You would fight back.)

The woman who told me to "go to h&ll", on the other hand, was not the woman who made the threat to harm.   This young woman (uBPD) was living with us because her M (uNPD) had kicked her and her other siblings out of the house when the CS ended.  She was living in our home and supposedly going to university and working part time.  She would come into the house well after midnight after partying all night, drunk, making noise, laughing, banging objects and cursing loudly.  (H was paying for her car and car insurance, so driving drunk was a concern.) The neighborhood heard her.  Sometimes she brought in a drunken friend and this doubled the noise and commotion.  When I asked her not to do these things, a reasonable request, that is when she told me to "go to h&ll."   With this, I did what any other adult would have done and not tolerated it.

You mention the need for a constructive response to verbal abuse.

Please answer whether or not you are yourself a step parent.  The unique agony of being one is something that can rarely be understood unless one is one themselves.  If you are not a stepparent, I understand why you cannot empathise why I do not want association with my H's children.  Believe me, I have exhausted all means of trying to keep peace (common with step parents).  This usually happens with the wives who want to keep the peace and only end up as door mats along with their husbands.  Keep in mind that the divorce rate of remarried people is something like 66 percent, well over the 50% of first-time marriages.  Factor in personality disorders and all the baggage this entails, it's no surprise why.

Part of codependency is tolerating all manner of abuse and not setting boundaries.  Sometimes, with some people with personality disorders, this is impossible. That is when you limit your involvement.  This is what I have done.  

My H, many years into the marriage, admitted to me that he would have done many things differently in looking back.  In the early years, he was the definition of the Disney dad, and it did not help his growing children who were, sadly, being raised by their uNPD M.  With the Ds, there was an unhealthy electra complex going on.  Contrary to what some (non step parent) people think, it does not get easier as the children grow to adult hood.  Sometimes it gets worse.

Maybe I should complain less and simply move on with my life as other have said here, to do good things for myself and to leave my H to handle his own children.  (That is not easy as he uses community income to bail them out of the results of their own poor choices.)

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/second-marriages-are-more-likely-to-end-in-divorce-heres-why_n_58b88e38e4b0b99894162a07

[Enabler]

Maybe I have Asking Why's message all wrong but what I think he is saying is that even accepting for the fact that your Step Kids hate you (lets assume that's a fact) and your H doesn't stand up for you, there are ways that you can stay neutral even when asserting boundaries in your own home. These boundaries could and likely should be independent of your H's stance and ideally not seek to attain his approval or support. Accepting his lack of support for the likely complex (valid/invalid) reasons he might have, and working with that situation rather than fighting against it.

You giving her a piece of her own medicine was successful, however one could argue that it was successful at the expense of any ability to have a friendly relationship with you. What would have happened if you'd have removed some of the insults from that interaction and yet still fronted her out. I personally don't see any issue with fronting bullies down, showing them you will not be intimidated... this is SHOWING them and sending them clear messages that you will not tolerate that kind of behaviour. However, when you go one step further, what are you doing? I see it that you're showing them that you can get down and dirty, rolling around in the same rancid mud as they've just been. There is a difference between being assertive and showing you will not be moved, and being mutually abusive, adding to the conflict. The article you posted was interesting, it makes some very very good points, did you have pre-marriage counselling, did you discuss how you would deal with the children situation, did you discuss how you would divide finances BEFORE you got married? Did your H ensure that he had recovered from the wounds of his previous relationship before getting involved with you? Did you ensure he'd recovered? I sense the answer to these is no... and you must own that as much as he should. These issues strike me as the fallout for unresolved traumas, maybe they are his unresolved traumas but it was also your responsibility to not get involved in that mess. In many respects I see you trying to resolve that legacy mess with very blunt tools which work... but leave deeper wounds. It's a bit like smacking a child on the bum... it works... heck it really works... but what are the longer term impacts of how your kids view you, and smacking, and adults post 'it working'?

Enabler

[Notwendy]

You are in a sort of limbo- with your H /step children dishing out their anger and frustration and you are giving it back to them. Yes, you are entitled to your anger and feelings and also entitled to give them all a taste of their own behavior. But what does this result in? Everyone being angry and verbally lashing out at each other.

Nobody is asking you to tolerate how you are being treated. I think the question is what direction do you want this to go and what can possibly be effective. You can't change them. They are who they are. The only person you have control over is you. So there are some choices:

You keep doing what you are doing- and the situation is likely to stay how it is, all of you being angry and hostile and expressing this to each other.

Or, you make a change. I don't know what that is. It would involve taking a different direction/approach.

[AskingWhy]

Enabler, my H and I did have premarital counseling and, although I did not know it at the time, he totally went chameleon with the counselor.  pwBPD have a way to doing this, as we know. Of course, I was love bombed, too, and he misrepresented himself to me.  I thought he adored me.  In reality, I eventually came to learn that his children from his first marriage (all under five years of age) were the most important people in his life.  I was simply a s#xual outlet for him.  I found it odd, later on, that I am exactly the same racial mix as his X W.  (His X left him after 10 years of marriage to marry her lover, and took custody of the children.)

Wendy, I am trying to contend with the anger, and not let it get to me.  It's very hard at times.

Codependents, as many of us are, have a belief that there are always solutions to problems with family members.  In cases of H's children who are BPD or NPD, and some with substances abuse issues, this is not the case.  Sometimes you cannot have a friendly R/S with someone who does not want one.  Regardless of how many times you reach out, your hand is going to be slapped.  Kindnesses on your part will be repaid with thoughtlessness and cruelty.  Been there, done that.

[Notwendy]

Codependents, as many of us are, have a belief that there are always solutions to problems with family members.

The shift in this kind of thinking is to focus on self- what is our role in the problems and what will we do about it. This doesn't mean "fixing" necessarily, it's self reflection.

Being kind doesn't have to mean being a doormat, or doing nice things for someone who is mistreating you. Maybe it helps to ask- what kind of person do I want to be? If I had to choose the person who has mistreated me the most- it would be my BPD mother. But I don't want to act the same way she does in return- because I don't want to be like that. If I were to say something mean to her in return, it diminishes how I see myself. When I decide on my own values- which are boundaries- and act according to them- it increases my self esteem. If I act out of anger or with intention to hurt back- it decreases it. I am not kind to her out of any hope for her to change or be different. I am kind to her because it then reflects who I am. But I don't allow her to abuse or mistreat me.

With regards to your H. If he yells or threatens you, you don't have to listen to it. You can leave the room, or not engage in the argument. But when you say things to him to "give it back " to him, it may feel good in the moment, you may believe it is justified, but it's you who is saying hurtful, angry things. Do you want to be that person?

We sometimes see things through a filter and this shapes how we see someone. Your filters from your posts include that your H values his children more than he does you. I don't doubt your perspective. It's just that if this is true, it isn't going to change, but seeing everything through this filter can alter how you see everything. Even if your H did something nice for you, could you see it as something nice- or would you measure it in comparison to his children. The problem with this filter is - if he did something nice, there would be no positive reinforcement for this from you. He would then not be inclined to do something nice. But he does get some positive from his kids ( even if they aren't always nice to him, he gets something out of it). So the filter promotes this self fulfilling truth. If you are angry at him and his kids are sometimes nice to him, then he might prefer their company.

So you resemble his ex wife. I don't think this is unusual. Sometimes people prefer certain characteristics- there is chemistry somehow. I have a friend who has dated many women and they are all blonde. When he's single, I can predict what the next girlfriend will look like. But is this a racial thing for him? No, he's doesn't choose his friends that way. He is sexually attracted to women with blonde hair. He has some "chemistry" with them. But that is not the only characteristic about them. He's met lots of blonde women, but he doesn't date all of them. He may be visually attracted to someone, but then he does get to know them and dates them for other qualities too.

I've seen where someone is divorced and the next wife looks like the first one. Rather than see your H as choosing you because of your racial background, maybe he wanted to date you because he was sexually attracted to you and to women who look like you. Basically-he thought you were attractive.  Is this a bad thing? But I doubt it is the only reason he chose you. You have other qualities that attracted him too.

Why change your filter? It's not about your H. Maybe he's a jerk, maybe his kids are jerks. But you aren't like that. You don't change your filter to allow people to mistreat you. We change our filter to broaden our perspective.

It would be one thing if you were leaving this marriage soon, but you have decided to stay the course. If your H acts out, he's adding stress to the situation. If you act out back in return - you then add more to it. If you don't- if you divert your attention to something else, then there's less of it. If you are in the same home with him, and there is less stress- YOU benefit. Maybe he does too, maybe he doesn't, but this is for you.

[Enabler]

Personally, and this could change since I have not ever been in the position of ever meeting another partner... but I could not imagine ever loving anyone more than my own children, regardless of whether or not they act like jerks some of the time. It’s simply a matter of biology I guess... they are literally a part of me. I do not see your husbands stance as odd. Any person I should meet in the future, assuming this divorce happens will need to understand and accept this fact, or I can never see the relationship working, and will always envisage conflict. Just my personal view and as I said, I’m not there yet. It’s one of the reasons why a new relationship is not appetising any time soon.

Enabler

[Gemsforeyes]

I was a stepmom for 19 years.  My “kids” were 5, 9 and 14 when I met them and I loved them dearly.  Shortly after meeting my now exH, I learned I could not physically have children, so this was my chance to be a mom.  I grabbed hold of it wholeheartedly.  One of the bio moms (there were 2) gave me some heartache, but that was her issue, not mine.

When the kids were with us, they were as much a priority to me as they were to my exH, and at times I put their needs ABOVE his; because that’s the way it needs to be at times.  They’re innocent and they rely on the adults in their lives.  I had enough love to go around... there were no complaints of anyone feeling left out, ignored or not loved enough.

I don’t miss my exH, but I sure do miss my kids.  Divorce changes things.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[AskingWhy]

Each spouse approaches a blended family with different expectations and different skills of coping and managing.  My own H, too late and long after his children ceased to be children, admitted he could have parented differently.  He sees how his permissive parenting did not help his children and, in fact, damaged our marriage.

Believe me, I tried a number of approaches.  You cannot change your H's children for something they are not.  And kindness is not a cure-all for bad behaviour.

It's a shame how parents put their children above their spouses.  I understand that this has happened to at least one celebrity couple who are now divorced after the birth of a child.  

The dynamic has changed from fifty years ago. Now parents are expected to be the best mates of their own children, sharing hobbies (to an alarming degree, that is) and even sharing intimate details of their s$xual lives; this is especially true with daughters and mothers.  It's good this site has a good article on covert incest, which is a symptom of a lack of boundaries.

We all have to be comfortable with our choices.  Each of my H's children has serious mental issues from their FOO (uBPD F and uNPD M), and I am unable to change their perceptions of me with any amount of kindness or bending backward.  Just as I have been told here, you cannot change your spouse and he is who he is.  The same for the children.  You cannot change them either.  You are kind to them and they mistreat you; you are indifferent and they mistreat you; you counter them and they mistreat you.

That said, with my countering, at least they know they cannot insult or threaten me and I will stand my ground and not be intimidated.  They are all adults, and I try to see them as little as possible.  Thank goodness their lives (always in chaos) makes this possible.  They continually fall victim to the consequences of their own poor decisions.  I just stand back and watch the aftermath, impassive and distant.  My advice and help is not wanted nor asked for.

[secretgirl]

Hey AW , I know it must be tough dealing with your step kids and husband but I think it’s one of those black and white solutions also... either deal with it or get out. Lol it’s harsh to say but you sound extremely unhappy... EXTREMELY unhappy.
It saddens me to read some of your posts on how your depict your H treating you and his step kids for that matter...
black and white thinking leads to black and white solutions.

You can be at peace and possibly detach if you feel that’s the right thing for you or... learn to cope by learning mechanisms on handling /dealing with it. Like self care activities etc .
 I am not in a place in my life where I have the capacity to look at my ubpdexbf and accept his disorder undiagnosed and “deal with it” and I’m ok with that right now.
I’m emotionally incapable. I have to strengthen my own boundaries and core self first.
Maybe it’s the same for you? You could either decide an action plan to leave or learn ways to cope or heal yourself and learn to not take things personally.

I , myself, can’t NOT take things my ex said personally. The stuff he said to me still hurts me & makes me upset and angry because my issue is I compare him to a non. Which is all wrong. They’re disordered . They can’t help it. They want us to love them no matter what (good or bad). Accept their flaws. Find ways to deal.
We are more mentally healthy so we CAN learn to deal... whether or not you’re actually willing to is an entirely different story. And it’s 100% okay to not want to deal with it but that decision is for you to make.
There gets a point for all of us where enough is enough . We’ve hit our limit . It seems you’ve hit your limit a long time ago... Am I wrong?
We are here to give advice , not tell you what to do ... but we can’t give advice when all the advice we give is shut down... it seems more like you’re at a point where you have to reflect on this r/s and do some self reflection also and decide what would be the best for your mental/physical health.

From your posts you hold so much anger towards your step kids and husband and trust me, I don’t blame you... I’m the same with my ex . Lol but how does  it help anyone ?
It doesn’t help your family because you’re holding onto anger and nothing is solved ...
It doesn’t help you because you’re holding onto anger and pulling yourself down and stuck in a rut .
As long as you’re Holding onto anger and negativity nothing will ever get solved or you’ll never be at a place of tranquility and without tranquility , no forgiveness will be able to take place.

It’s fine to be mad but holding onto it isn’t healthy either that’s why we are in therapy as codependents also... it’s fine for US to say no. It’s fine for us to accept our feelings and feel them and go through them but it’s not fine to be stuck in a place of anger /resentment. It serves no one. Not you, not your step kids, not your H. Some change must occur and it’ll have to come from you.

[Notwendy]

Like secretgirl, I would like to turn the posts back to you AW. How someone chooses to parent their children can vary- whether they are right or wrong as you see it, what kind of people they are- none of this is anything you can control.

The only thing you can control is your part in this and your decision. You are angry at your H and if giving him a taste of his behavior is what you want to do- you have every right to do this. You have every right to be as angry as you feel, treat him however you want to treat him, deal with his kids however you choose.

But please go back and read my last post. If he's acting out and spewing anger into the room, and you do too, you are both in the same emotional atmosphere. If he pollutes it with his anger, and you give it back, you are both experiencing the emotional garbage.

Even if he was the scum of the earth, he's a human and humans respond to their situation. If you are angry, he feels this, He acts out, you feel it.

Did you ever see the movie "War of the Roses"? It's a dark satire of two people who can't stand each other, sharing a house and what they do. I won't spoil the movie by saying what happens, but it's not a good situation for either of them. 

You've read the self help books, you see the situation. You have your H and his kids pretty well described for you. You have read about justified anger. But has any of this helped you look at yourself? Not from a right/wrong perspective, but from the perspective that we can only control ourselves, not another person, then any change will have to start with you. It might be staying and improving things for yourself- taking the focus off your H and his kids and pursuing an emotional space for you and your interests, or leaving. Or continue to do what you are doing now.

[Forgiveness]

Are you ready to take an action to improve your life? One action people have mentioned is to find another ride to the antiques show. You felt that you could not. Is there anything you can do to reclaim independence for yourself and take the focus off him? One small thing you can do right now?

If not, I am also not sure what you want from us. Venting is really great. I love venting, but that is just Step 1. Step 2 is make your life better. In your case you can either leave him or stay and try to take charge of your own happiness without trying to get it from him. He will not change.

How can we help you? What type of input would you like from us?

[FaithHopeLove]

Hi AW
 I have been reading your posts and your interactions with OR in which you repeatedly say that only a stepparent can understand what you are going through
 Well I am a step parent. I have been for 30 years now. I get the pain. You are right. It is really hard. Although our relationship is good now my stepdaughter was very nasty with me for many years. I really tried but nothing I did was enough. She flat out hated me and I was miserable. Things did not even begin to turn around until I realized the position she was in and the role I was playing. She was the ONLY true victim. Her parents chose to marry and chose to have her and chose to divorce. I then chose to date and then marry her father. All three of us were adults with options. She was a child with no option other than to see her world fall apart. Of course she lashed out.

I have been reading your posts with compassion because I do know a step mother's pain. But I have also learned that it is nothing like that of the stepchild and those of us who CHOOSE to take on the step parent role by CHOOSING to be in relationships with people who have children have an obligation to not add to the pain of children who have no choice. We are obligated to show them compassion even when they are being awful. We are also obligated to understand that our partners are sometimes going to put their children's needs ahead of ours because their children really do need them more than we do. It is incredibly painful. I grant you that. But no amount of step parent pain justifies taking it out on the children no matter how awful they get. Like it or not their needs DO come first and we as adults with choices need to respect that


 

[AskingWhy]

I have been away for several days and want to thank those who replied.

When my step children were all very young, I exercised the most compassion possible.  It was not easy as they hated me.  As teens, they saw the comtempt their M had for their F, and used emotional blackmail against him. They still do. They saw him as a spineless pushover.   He would cower in front of them and give in to every demand.  They had no respect for him and used him as a door mat.  I was determined not to let them use me as a door mat.

The articles here on covert incest are important reads.  Parents getting too close to children is not healthy.

As FHL notes, the divorce of their parents was not their choice.  I had to be both a guide and role model, not easy when their father was a guilty Disney dad who refused to parent.  His only contribution was to indulge and be permissive.  I resented him deeply for doing this and contemplated divorce countless times.  Step parents always get the "you're not my dad/mom."  It's painful when you only have their best interests at heart and it's thrown back in your face.  I had to witness the children (as teens) slapped in the face by their own mother (including her spending CS money on herself and her new H), and suffer all the chaos that comes with having a uNPD M.  My uBPD H's X W cheated on him when he was overseas in the military, then married the lover she found when he was away.  She took all of the children across the country to marry this lover.  uBPD H was beyond grief and near suicide when his supervisors stepped in to counsel him.

The parents are the primary R/S and when children are put first, this causes divorce. The divorce rate is already over 55%. Remarried spouses with children have a 66% divorce rate.  Couples lose sight of their own R/S and they end up leaving each other.  Remarried couples who don't stand together end up separating.  I truly wish I had done this years ago, but just as I did not understand BPD, I had no clue just how bad a marriage I had with the children running the show.

Now that the children are all adults and all around 30 years of age, things are different.  They are no longer small children but well into adulthood, and some with children of their own.  They are all in the NPD and BPD spectrum with their drug and alcohol addictions, homelessness, rehab relapses, chaotic marriages and romantic R/Ss, cruelty to colleagues and co workers (perpetrators of workplace bullying and taking much enjoyment in it.)  Now I am disengaged. I have stepped back and now say nothing, and let them take the consequences of their own poor judgment and lack of morals.  (Cheating on spouses, smoking/drugs, poor eating habits, shop lifting, arrests for drug addiction, etc.)  Their fate does not affect me.

Sometimes all the compassion in the world can't created bridges, and some people can never be your friend.  I am comfortable with this.  If my H chooses to wallow in self pity because his children treat him like dirt, I leave him to his misery.  If I try to say anything, H will project his rage for his children on me.  No thank you.  Been there done that.  On the other hand, I have my own hobbies and interests separate from my life with my H.  I no longer like being a codependent.  I have had too many years of being codependent.  Having good boundaries is healthy.

[Cat Familiar]

I dated a man who had a young daughter who acted out in disturbing ways. When I first began dating him, his seven year old daughter was living in another state with her mother and stepfather. Then a few months later, it was his turn to have her live with him during the school year.

I approached the situation with an open mind, though it certainly was not my preference. I experienced many of the same issues you mention: Disneyland Dad syndrome, extreme anger from the daughter when I gently suggested things like bringing a coat on a cold day or picking up toys that were strewn on the floor in the hallway.

Because of weird acting out behavior, the daughter was not allowed at the homes of some of her friends, and she had been seeing a counselor for a while. My boyfriend suspected her grandfather had sexually abused her, and likely had abused his ex-wife (the girl’s mother) when she was a child and also her siblings.

I tried to intervene about healthy food choice, as her father let her eat whatever she wanted, and what she chose was already making her extremely overweight. But then I became the evil stepmother and was accused by my boyfriend of not liking his daughter.

I saw the writing on the wall and distanced myself, but still continued a friendship for a few years. By the time she was 15, this poor child weighed over 300 pounds and she was only 5’3”.

Years later, I heard about the suicide attempts and my former boyfriend told me that everything that I’d been warning him about had come to pass and he wished that he would have listened to me at the time.

So, AskingWhy, I truly understand. Now that you’re clear about the relationship dynamics with your husband and his children, there’s some healing on your part and it sounds like you’re doing that in process with your therapist. Then comes the choice point. Even if you don’t want a divorce, the question arises: Who is AskingWhy apart from this dysfunctional dance with her husband and his children? And what does she want her life to look like?

[AskingWhy]

I am trying to remove myself from caring about uBPD H's children.  It's hard when they make blunders in their lives and go running back to their father, the one they emotionally abuse and insult.  H willingly opens his wallet and heart over and over again (car accidents, substance abuse and rehab, etc.)

This take community income and H doles it out to his children.  And then H complains we have no money for nice things like vacations.  The son is bad at money because of drugs, alcohol and homelessness.  H enables this young man with money, and he's back out of the streets again.  Not even a cell phone to contact the son.