Our wedding anniversary is next week Part 4

[Stillhopeful4]

Mod Note:  part 3 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340517.0;all

Ok guys I have a MAJOR update:

(For reference Dog1 is the dog she took and Dog 2 is one of the 3 I have...all 4 dogs are BOTH of ours)

So Dog2 was really sick Mon and tuesday and he went down hill fast.  Couldn't walk puking blood etc.  He's only 4 pounds.  I took yesterday off to take him to the vet/stay with him.  I texted her yesterday morning to tell her he was very sick and to ask if she wanted me to keep her updated.  She called me, we had a nice calm conversation about the dogs.  She told me to keep her updated.  2:00 she texts me and tells me Dog1 is throwing up blood and she's taking him in to the vet after work.  She works a 1/2 hour from home and the vet is near her work.  She was upset she was going to have to drive all the way back to get him then back again.  I told her I had a T appointment near her work and could bring him.  She said that would be great.  Then I added I am making dinner and all the kids will be coming (including her daughter) and you are welcome to come by with DOG1 and see Dog2 and have dinner with us.  She called me immediately and lost it on me screaming and swearing.  Telling me she didn't want to see me or bring the dog because I did this to hurt her.  I said NOTHING.  Then she says just bring him to me because it's convenient for me..just pull in the back of my work so no one see you.  I did.  She was ice cold when I dropped him off.  I said please update me.  She said ok...no thank you nothing.

I went to T.  OMG it was enlightening and when I told him the story of the past 4 weeks I concluded with I need to know.. I'm sure she has AvPD with BPD traits.  He looked me in the eye and said...your hypothesis is very VERY accurate.  I felt such a weight lifted off my shoulders.  

I didn't hear from her so about 9:00 I texted "Hi...how's DOG1?"  No reply..until 5 am today.  She said what was up with him and what they did.  I replied Ok please give him a kiss and tell him I love him and can you keep me updated.  She said ok.  Then I got in the shower and came out to many mnay texts... about getting the car out of her name and my boys not replying to snaps and how she gave them 10 years of her life and they are ignoring her.  I replied "I understand, this sounds like it's very painful for you". Then she went on and on and on.  I only replied with things like ok and I'll take care of that.  Then I guess I thew a grenade into the fire.  I told her I wanted her to know I would stand by her side and walk thru the gates of hell with her and when she figures this out I will be here.  She went off...about 10 texts...calling me basically a piece of poop and telling me I have major issues and how deeply I have hurt her and she can never forgive me...I did not reply to any of it...the 2nd to last text she said I have a crazy busy day at work and I don't need to be having this conversation and getting all upset all day.  Still I didn't reply and then she sent one last text...YOU MUST HAVE KNOWN I HAD A BUSY DAY and YOU DID ALL THIS ON PURPOSE THIS MORNING.  I did not reply!

I feel such a weight lifted off of my shoulders.  All of the things she has projected on me sometimes I wondered IS IT ME?  I understand I still have a part in this and that was my reactions to her.

T says I should decided to stick by her through the long haul which will be very hard and painful but he's willing to help give me tools to do it should I decide to or to go NC for good, forever and KNOW that she will come back at some point and I will need to be strong enough to not take her back should I choose that path.  I told him right now I'm choosing to stand by her, but that could change.

Thoughts?

SH4

[Stillhopeful4]

Once Removed,

you interpret her reaction and the pulling back as she must be dating someone else. do you really believe this (it would really change things) or is it a way of coping?

I know her better than she knows herself.  Yes, I really believe this, it's her only way to cope.  She has never left a relationship (prior) without having someone lined up that she's kept a secret.  And she's done it in our marriage on 3 separate occasions.

SH4

[Enabler]

This is a very interesting development and certainly might seem like it puts a lot of emphasis on you to make a binary decision here and now about that. You seem to have handled that well and taken it not as a binary decision but one that you can be committed to for now but always know that you're entitled to retain that choice of changing your mind.

Did the T elude to you whether or not he had told her that he believed she had BPD traits? Her wrestling with that idea could well be a reason (among the many others) for her heightened desire to distance. It would be a lot for anyone to accept, and reasonable to expect her to fight it.

How are both the dogs baring up? It's a bit random that both of them are super sick and chundering blood isn't it?

Well done for not fuelling the fire in the diatribe, you don't have to stay in the chat and maybe it might be a good idea to leave your phone for an hour or two when this happens. Unfortunate about the invitation for dinner, that was a kind gesture, I personally don't think there's ever a reason to not show kindness even if you know it's going to be thrown back in your face. I might be inclined to drop the comments about going to hells gate with her, that might trigger her since it implies she is broken, she is bad... and that's not what she wants to hear.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Did the T elude to you whether or not he had told her that he believed she had BPD traits? Her wrestling with that idea could well be a reason (among the many others) for her heightened desire to distance. It would be a lot for anyone to accept, and reasonable to expect her to fight it.

He said she's in a delicate state right now and he can't tell her yet...but that they are working on the issues that are below the surface.  And because she's mentioned she doesn't trust him and just might leave him, he really wants to try and help her and he can't do that if she leaves.

How are both the dogs baring up? It's a bit random that both of them are super sick and chundering blood isn't it?

One is really sick all the time to begin with DOG1, the one she took.  His is different than what's going on with DOG2, similar symptoms.  Dog 2 now has full blown lyme, poor thing.

Another little update...she just texted me.  This is about 1.5 hours after I didn't reply to all those other texts.

Her:  So that's it.  You don't like what I say and we won't talk for another 2 weeks.
Me: W, I'm trying to be respectful.  You told me you had a busy day and didn't need to be upset with this conversation.
Her:  Too late
Me:  I have told  you...I will never not talk to you.  I'm always here.

It's been about 10 minutes no reply.  Trying to keep it neutral.  I have never wanted to fight with her.  It's like she finds things to fight about.  Thoughts?

PS...Son won the 1st round of the soccer playoffs Tuesday night (they are seeded 12th and the team they beat was 5th).  They moved onto quarter finals tomorrow 

[Enabler]

Okay, so not responding to her isn't going to result in her calming down and she see's not talking to her as 'never' going to talk to her. Another option is to define when you will be available to speak to her again.

"I don't want to have an argument with you, because of that I'll speak in 6hrs when I'm in a better place"

Then don't JADE

[Stillhopeful4]

Then don't JADE

I'm going to have to brush up on this. Because I'm sure there will be something this weekend.


Ok, so here's another question.  As you can tell I am an open book.  I don't keep secrets from anyone and I say it like it is, to a fault at times.  So how do I go on knowing this about her and...

1.  I know I can't tell her, she would never accept it and call me a liar etc etc...but I feel like I'm lying to her by not telling her. (Again I know I can't...just want to know how I deal with my feelings about lying)

2.  When she goes down a bad path and starts talking poop about me to my kids/family/friends and saying I said stuff I didn't...how do I not tell them...LISTEN she is the problem and has...

3.  If she stops going to our T because she claims her boss is a T and her friend at work is a T (they are but they are bereavement T's) and she doesn't need our T anymore because she got herself out of our toxic home and family.  How do I not reach out to her boss (mind you she's only been her boss for 2 years, but this woman has been a friend of mine for 20)...and tell her about the AvPD/BPD not to hurt W, but so that boss can help.  BTW, boss is her new favorite person...dress shopping...goes to her for advice about every aspect of her life, even took her house hunting with her.  Her boss is a VERY great person...VERY.  Very giving, is in a very loving relationship and has a wonderful family.  My W has said in the past she idolizes her boss's family and that they are perfect and that she wants that.

What do I do with this information.  Do I sit back and do nothing and just watch it all unfold?

SH4

[khibomsis]

SH4, good to hear you are bearing up! Now sit back and work on yourself. As a child growing up in a BPD FOO, I never really had a chance to develop a selfhood. These days, I am discovering the infinite beauty and complexity that comes out of the wisdom that I cannot change my beloved but I can change myself. It is like magic
 
Whether or not you can even tell other people your wife has BPD would depend on whether you were told in a confidential situation or not.   

But I think your question is more: is it wise? Well, generally, even revealing to the BPD herself the diagnosis tends to result in a nuclear war (that is why the T is being cautious), so your choice whether to tell or not to tell others depends entirely on what outcome you are looking for. It is not likely to lead to love, peace and happiness between the two of you ... If she does not accept the diagnosis she is not going to be happy that others know about it.

I know it can be difficult with a friend of 20 years, divided loyalties and all, and maybe in such a case it might be possible to hint that you "suspect". That becomes about you and your suspicions, to which you in your turn have every right.  Again, this has to be balanced against the likelihood that if she finds out you have been talking about her to her boss Armageddon is inevitable. How good is your friend at keeping confidences?

In the meantime don't worry overmuch.  In the long run the truth will out. The ability to playact a perfectly lovely normality will eventually diminish, the more so if she doesn't have you any more to dysregulate on. So focus on you, on the things that you have control over, and enjoy the absence of FOG.
 

 

[Enabler]

I'm conflicted SH4, I have to admit that my experience is clouded by my own personal experience. I can FULLY empathise with your concerns about your W moving towards a 'wise' person who appears well informed yet is probably too close to be able to be objective about your W, and therefore maybe not see some of the things that her T see's. It's tough for people to stay in therapy, confronting things they have spent many years squashing, speaking to someone who appears 'informed' yet likely isn't can be a way of cheating oneself into believing the T is incorrect.

That said, I agree with Khibomsis, I would avoid making any direct disclosure at this time. You may be surprised, given enough time and interaction even a bereavement counsellor may well have enough insight to think "hmmmm something isn't right here". Also, you can't influence your W's outcomes here, she could be choosing to run from the pain of the T and into a more validating environment of your friend, blocking that route would just mean she would find another outlet to get that validation until such time when she was able to face more pain... which could be never if she can get away with it.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Well Enabler, I think you nailed it.

Here's my weekend update.  She did not come to son's ring mass or his quarter finals soccer game on Sat (they lost by 1 goal but played amazing).  Saturday night I had my best friends birthday party.  And based on social media W's friends had a surprise party for her.  I said nothing Saturday night.  Sunday morning I saw a pic with one of her work colleagues hanging all over her with her arms across her chest...yup I did it I sent a text.  Something along the lines of I should have known it was J because of xyz then I ended it with...it doesn't matter because when you figure this out I will still be here and I love you.  She called me and we talked for like and hour and 1/2.  It didn't start off well at all but I think it ended on a more promising note.  I kept telling her when she finally figures it out I will be here and I love her unconditionally at one point she said "I want to believe you".  She also said she struggled all day Saturday with if she should go to my son's game or not.  She did say something that I am VERY concerned about...she said she's cancelling her T appointment tomorrow (her birthday) and that when she goes in 2 more weeks she's going to tell him she's not going to be seeing him anymore.  She said the past 2 times she went she felt really bad after and the fact that she hasn't gone in a month she feels better. (my thoughts on this below)  Then after we hung up she texted both boys and invited them to her little family get together last night at her mom's for her birthday.  I spoke to my daughter and she said W had called her just before the text was sent to ask her if she thought it was a good idea to invite the boys.  My daughter said yes but said to me ...mom she is a 40 something year old woman, why is she calling me to get my permission/opinion on if the boys should be invited over of pizza.  Anyway I called her back to ask the time and she said HEY did you block me or delete me on Snap..I was like no...I looked and apparently she had deleted me...probably when she was drunk Saturday night...we fixed it and I didn't make a fuss over it.  She swears she didn't do it..who knows maybe one of her friends did if they got her phone that night.  So my younger son went, I dropped him off.  My older son was out of state with friends for the weekend and isn't back until today so he didn't go.  After the get together last night, after she got home she texted me..."I don't know how much it matters or why I'm even telling you this but every time we get in that vicious circle like we did today I feel like I take 10 steps back in this healing process.  It's never going to end" then there were some texts back and forth, nothing heated and she said "I absolutely hate what we became and where we ended up. And I wish I believed you".  Her last text was "I've always had to defend myself.  And don't worry I won't bother you with my feelings."  I told her she doesn't need to defend anything and that I'm always here for her and she's not a bother and she can call or text me anytime.

So to me it almost felt like she was softening some.  Or that she wants to.  She started to say something about a show and song and then she stopped but I figured it out and it was kinda nice.
Anyway about her not going to the T anymore.  What are your thoughts?  I will see him about 4 days before she will see him to tell him she's not going anymore.  Do you think I should give him a heads up.  If she does stop seeing him is there any hope?

This is a very shortened version of the events this weekend.  I'm sure I missed some things, but you get the jist.

Thanks,
SH4

[khibomsis]

Yup Enabler, you hit that one on the nail. Indeed there is this crucial point in therapy when some run from the painful emotions into any escape, noticed this with a BPD friend who went through therapists like toilet tissue. As soon as she got close to the point where she would have to deal with the hard stuff she would split them black and fire them. Bottom line is they have to go through this at their own pace. All we can do is decide what we are OK with and what not (boundaries). I didn't see this friend for years although we have been friends for decades because she was too toxic. We hang out now and then these days and she does not rage around me because she knows I will refuse to be exposed to them.

SH4, well done on making it through the weekend and birthday! Congratulations on managing to stay emotionally present for family! Did you talk to youngest about what it must feel like to be dropped off by you for a family birthday party you were not invited to? How did your very successful son feel about her not coming to the events? I do worry about the kids, even if it is the 10th time they are going through this, it is a lot. It is great that you have good communication with your daughter, but I wonder if the two younger ones have emotional skills yet at their age to express what they are going through?

I hope the dogs get well soon!

It struck me that I don't think any conscientous boss would agree to counsel somebody who is also an employee, too much of a conflict of interest, surely?

There is always hope. You can work on growing your conflict-free responses to improve the chances of a peaceful outcome. Based on past behaviour you have a pretty good idea of what to expect. If it is correct that therapy has brought her to the point where the emotions are too painful to handle than your loved one is not going to be too rational for a while. How are you going to deal with jealousy in the future so that you reduce conflict and improve communication?

This is probably besides the point but I have to admit that there were a couple of times during my beloved's recent triangle drama when I said to myself "Ms Triangle if you want her you can have her. You have absolutely no idea what you are letting yourself in for". Not very compassionate but it did help me stiffen my backbone and set firm boundaries.  

[Enabler]

went through therapists like toilet tissue. 

That made me chuckle 

SH4,

The other woman in the office - did your W confirm that she was seeing the other woman? I have other thoughts on what you said but I will save them till you have answered this.

Regarding telling you/her T that she is considering quiting, again I am conflicted here, on the one hand I don't think it typically works to try and massage other peoples business, on the other hand this is likely therapy that is doing her good, hence it is painful and she doesn't feel great after it. Telling the T could backfire as he could well feel obliged to disclose this to your W thus killing (further) any trust she has in you. Also, your T is likely to already be aware that he is pushing the buttons and she is likely to run, so it would be his job to make sure he manages that level of comfort such that he doesn't overwhelm her to the point that she ends therapy. Is there anything he could say that might stop her from abandoning the therapeutic relationship? ... actually I think I have convinced myself that it would not be wise to say anything about her intentions. Keep T about you. What did you say to her directly in response to abandoning T? I might have said something like, "sometimes things that are painful are actually doing us good, often we need to chew through the pain to find the better good." ... maybe incorporate that into some kind of SET statement.

Well done your son on his football, shame they lost but at least he can take away his individual performance.

Enabler

[khibomsis]

 

[Stillhopeful4]

a BPD friend who went through therapists like toilet tissue.

LOL

SH4, well done on making it through the weekend and birthday! Congratulations on managing to stay emotionally present for family! Did you talk to youngest about what it must feel like to be dropped off by you for a family birthday party you were not invited to? How did your very successful son feel about her not coming to the events? I do worry about the kids, even if it is the 10th time they are going through this, it is a lot. It is great that you have good communication with your daughter, but I wonder if the two younger ones have emotional skills yet at their age to express what they are going through?

My son s very in tune to her emotions and he gets it very much.  We had a long conversation about it.

I hope the dogs get well soon!

Thank you!

It struck me that I don't think any conscientous boss would agree to counsel somebody who is also an employee, too much of a conflict of interest, surely?

She is also very good friends with her boss.  IE Mother of the bride dress shopping and such.  I believe her boss is her new "favorite person".  I am kind of releaved it's her boss.  Her boss is a GREAT person.  In a very happy and healthy marriage.  The thing is their job, deals with a lot of death and my W is surrounded by all empaths.

There is always hope. You can work on growing your conflict-free responses to improve the chances of a peaceful outcome. Based on past behaviour you have a pretty good idea of what to expect. If it is correct that therapy has brought her to the point where the emotions are too painful to handle than your loved one is not going to be too rational for a while. How are you going to deal with jealousy in the future so that you reduce conflict and improve communication?

Radical acceptance

This is probably besides the point but I have to admit that there were a couple of times during my beloved's recent triangle drama when I said to myself "Ms Triangle if you want her you can have her. You have absolutely no idea what you are letting yourself in for". Not very compassionate but it did help me stiffen my backbone and set firm boundaries.  

Yes this is how I am feeling too.  If she does find someone.  I know it will go south and she will eventually come back.

[Stillhopeful4]

The other woman in the office - did your W confirm that she was seeing the other woman? I have other thoughts on what you said but I will save them till you have answered this.

She swears there is nothing going on with anyone.  But she only has ever left a relationship if she had someone else.  And she has always kept that someone else secret for 6 months as to not look bad.

What did you say to her directly in response to abandoning T? I might have said something like, "sometimes things that are painful are actually doing us good, often we need to chew through the pain to find the better good." ... maybe incorporate that into some kind of SET statement.

I said something along those lines and I also said if it's about him seeing both of us I was willing to stop going to him so she could still see him.  She said that wouldn't make a difference about how bad she feels when she leaves there.

Well done your son on his football, shame they lost but at least he can take away his individual performance.

Thank you 

[Stillhopeful4]

Ok birthday update:

I texted her yesterday and said "hi..that is all just hi".  She didn't respond.  I know she had a very busy day at work yesterday, so I didn't expect a response.

Today is her birthday.  When she saw youngest son on Sunday he told her he would stop by on our way to school (right near her apartment) to wish her happy birthday.  She said that would be nice.  Last night him and I went shopping and got her a few little things.  Slippers and a t-shirt of her favorite sports team and I made her 2 dozen chocolate covered strawberries.  I got her a lovey card from me and he picked out a card from him and his brother.

I texted her early this morning and only said "Happy Birthday" she replied thank you.

When we arrived at her place, my intention was just to send him in with the items.  She was outside waiting for us with Dog1.  I got out of the car, with him and we handed her the things, talked to her a bit and the dog.  Then I hugged her(she hugged me back) and I kissed her on the cheek and said Happy birthday I love you.  When we left she group texted my sons thanking them for the gifts and card etc.   Then about 5 minutes later she texted me ... "Thank you for the strawberries card and gift.  And for bringing SON this morning.  That meant so much to me."  I replied you are welcome and thank you for bringing Dog1 out to see me. PS youngest SON came shopping with me and picked out the card from him and oldest son and the shirt.  She did the heart thing and loved the text.  (each of the boys wrote her a really nice little note in the card wishing her a happy birthday and telling her they love her).

Is she softening?  Thoughts?

[Enabler]

Like she says, I suspect you seeing the same T will have no baring on her desire to chew through emotional stuff with the same guy. My guess is that they have moved away from talking about you and moved to talking about other layers of the proverbial onion.

Okay, so she didn't admit to having a relationship with this other person. Maybe she's telling the truth, maybe not, reserve judgement on that, judgement won't help you. What interested me was that you provided her with a backstop to her infidelity. You said "when you finally figures it out I will be here and I love you unconditionally." I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this statement in the context of her 'finding herself'. But in the context of her potentially having an affair what message does that send her? does it send the message of "you go and have the affair, come back when it doesn't work out and I'll be here with loving arms" or does it say "you are doing what you're doing for the reasons only you know why you're doing them, I love you unconditionally and that means I will be available to discuss our relationship if you decide you want to stop doing what you're doing." I guess for me telling her you are waiting on the porch for her is different from telling her her dinner is warm in the oven.

It's great you chatted for a while and both of you left the conversation without dysregulating.

Enabler

[Enabler]

Nicely handled on the Birthday stuff... just perfect, well done.

Stop looking ahead, she was soft today, that was good, she might not be soft tomorrow.

Low pressure, small gestures, softly softly seems to be working. Sow seeds and watch them grow.

Tomorrow she may try and pull up the flowerbeds for no apparent reason, resist pushing hard back.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Enabler,

I think it was more of this... "you are doing what you're doing for the reasons only you know why you're doing them, I love you unconditionally and that means I will be available to discuss our relationship if you decide you want to stop doing what you're doing."

Sowing seeds and watching them grow.  That's what I'm hoping for.

Thank you!

SH4

[Enabler]

 

 

[Stillhopeful4]

Ok guys.  I guess I failed.

I texted her last night before bed..just saying I hope she had a nice birthday and I would have liked to do more to make it special for her I love you.  She didn't reply.

Then I texted her this morning.."Today is our 10 year first date aversary"  Not reply.

So...social media yesterday with over 100 birthday wishes and the two people I think she's starting something with/ been seeing secretly.  Their posts to her were very...how should I say it...well lets just say I got two phone calls yesterday saying OMG did you see what J posted on your W's wall for her birthday.  Yeah so it's not just me that's reading things into it.

I don't know maybe she's not replying because she's feeling a little guilty...maybe it's her avoidance kicking in.  Or maybe Enabler is right, today/last night she's pulling up the flower beds and the one softening moment has passed.  This is so very hard.  The thing is I know her.  I know she likes the excitement of something new and all the attention being on her.  But once it passes she will realize what she had with me and our family.  But also like Enabler said, I'm not going to keep dinner in the oven for her.  I will talk to her, I will be there for her.  But I will not sleep with her after she has started seeing someone else (she always does this, goes back to the x sleeps with them and then goes back to current).  And I've decided I will not take her back UNLESS she's aware of the AvPD & BPD and is in therapy for it.  I can't keep doing this to my heart.  It's so painful to watch and be a part of.

SH4

[Enabler]

Who knows if you failed... no response doesn't necessarily equate to failure.

The question is, what made you send the additional messages after you'd had a small win? What was your thought process... what can you do about it going forwards?

I feel for you seeing messages that hurt you. Some people stop checking their partners social media during times like this. In fairness to your W, she can't really control what other people write on her FB page. It's not confirmation of anything but it is in so many ways.

It's good that you have settled (for now) on a path. Try and align all things with that path and don't deviate.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

The question is, what made you send the additional messages after you'd had a small win? What was your thought process... what can you do about it going forwards?

I wanted to open the lines of communication with her and let her know I was thinking of her on her birthday.  Part of the big thing she stressed to me on Sunday, multiple times, is that she doesn't believe I love her and wishes & wants to believe.  How will she ever know I love her this much if we don't talk or see each other?  I don't know what I can do going forward.  Knowing she's AvPD and will avoid everything and try and eventually pretend our relationship never existed is very hard to accept especially based on the fact that she truly believes I don't love her when I do, more than she will ever know.

It's very hard and I'm really struggling today.  I miss her so much.

SH4

[Enabler]

I WANTED TO OPEN THE LINES OF COMMUNICATION

For you to be successful you may need to reconsider whether it YOU who wants to open lines of communication or whether SHE would want those lines of communication open. Lets consider the lines of communication are open, she hasn't blocked you and she hasn't changed her phone number. If she wants to communicate with you, she can. I think it's okay to test the line every now and again with purpose, and that was successful earlier in the day with birthday greetings etc... but the line is not open for certain types of communication namely 'heavy' communication. Lets just say the line is unresponsive for this kind of communication.

If you and the T are correct about BPD, you behaving and telling her that you love her does not mean that she will believe you. You could in effect be the most loving person on the planet and she still might not see you as loving. She hurts, she needs to find some cause for that hurt, it might even be the case that she's having an affair and has to have someone to blame for her having an affair WHICH ISN'T HER. I'm not in her head but it could go along the lines of "SH4 doesn't love me enough else I wouldn't have had an affair". No amount of mental gymnastics is going to be able to solve that one. You are doing loving things, you have told her that you love her... she needs to work that out for herself.

If she turned round tomorrow and said "SH4, I love you", what would your reaction be? I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of "Well I'm not sure how you could given you've had an affair, you've left me and you don't even invite me to your birthday party!" You saying you love her is probably as maddening as that.

You're going to have to be patient, you're going to have to play the long game and you're going to have to think about how your W is going to receive your communication as higher than whether or not you want to offer communication.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Long game...got it.  I will try.  But I'm not perfect.  Some days are very hard. 

I read up on the reactive abuse thing...it all sounds way too familiar. 

I'm really torn, as I'm sure you can all tell by my posts, which way to proceed.  It's like I know to get healthy I should walk away from this.  But I also know I love her very much, more than any other partner I've been a relationship with.

Thanks for keeping me grounded and giving me a place to vent.

SH4

[Enabler]

It’s not either or, you can get healthy and that could well help with marital success.

You’ve been doing the same thing for 10yrs+... imagine if you smoked for that long, how hard would that be to give up? I know you have bad days, and I will beat you up everytime you do have a bad day... because you can take it now.

From a blokes perspective women seem to operate in a world where everything good or bad counts for +\- 1... my W works in a world where all good things count for +1 and all bad things count for -1000. Welcome to my world. Keep the bads from happening

[Stillhopeful4]

You’ve been doing the same thing for 10yrs+... imagine if you smoked for that long, how hard would that be to give up?

I don't have to imagine...LOL!  Let's up that to 35+ years plus more so now than ever..ughhh

I know you have bad days, and I will beat you up everytime you do have a bad day... because you can take it now.

I can take it!  I'll try for the bad days to happen less!

From a blokes perspective women seem to operate in a world where everything good or bad counts for +\- 1... my W works in a world where all good things count for +1 and all bad things count for -1000. Welcome to my world. Keep the bads from happening

Yes, my W is the same..good is +1 and bad is -1,000,000,000.  I've tried using the analogy about making deposits and withdrawals from the emotional bank account...she said she doesn't understand my silly riddles.

One day at a time!  Going to focus on going home and making dinner for the kids and watching a few good tv shows tonight and I WILL NOT TEXT HER...unless she reaches out to me of course.

Thanks again,

SH4

[khibomsis]

SH4, so glad you and the kids are communicating well!
It is a period of extreme uncertainty. Your W is going to therapy and unlocking some doors in her mind she normally keeps closed. She may fire therapist and lock those doors again.

Over the years, she has developed a pattern: blame SH4 for the rages. Run away from the shame connected to raging=run away from SH4. Seek someone else who will not make her rage. Rage anyway, dump person and go back to SH4. Rinse and repeat. This year of multiple anniversaries one would guess is particularly fraught, not least because even deep in denial the suspicion of a repeating pattern involving one common denominator (W) must surely be occurring even to her.

It s a deep minefield, and one in which you can get very hurt if you do not navigate carefully.
The one critical factor which has changed everything is you. You are getting stronger every day. Count your blessings and indeed enjoy making each moment meaningful. We all know you cannot release your wife from the treadmill of her own denial. Stay out of the firing line of this inner war she is waging and be safe. Your job  is keeping hope alive for both of you.  

[Stillhopeful4]

You are getting stronger every day. Count your blessings and indeed enjoy making each moment meaningful. We all know you cannot release your wife from the treadmill of her own denial. Stay out of the firing line of this inner war she is waging and be safe. Your job  is keeping hope alive for both of you.  

Yes, khibomsis I do feel like I'm getting stronger every day.  Everyone here has helped me with that process.  I know some days I have set backs but I'm able to get back on the right path quickly.


So last night she replied to the text I sent her early yesterday morning about it being the 10 year anniversary of our 1st date.  She replied 12 hours later with "Yes, 10 years of me giving you nothing emotionally"  I DID NOT REPLY
   I wanted to say something like Wow, you finally realize it or yes and yet I STILL LOVE YOU.  The thing is I know she said it sarcastically because she believes she gave 110% and more and I'm the one with the issues.  For me not replying to her negativity was a small success for ME!  I know she was waiting for me to react (reactive abuse) and I did not give that to her!

SH4

[Enabler]

Morning SH4,

Although normally it's not kind to ignore people's messages, I think saying nothing says something now (since you normally do). She could take the silence one of two ways, she might take it as "She agrees with what I have written and doesn't care", or she might take it as "She's not prepared to join my drama making any more". At this juncture I'd imagine she'd assumes you agree and you don't care... BUT... you have to start somewhere and by not responding and not joining in drama in ALL situations she could start to work out that you are simply not responding to certain types of messages.

Now, the question is, what will you respond if she sends another message today or tomorrow trying to prompt you into joining her emotional drama again? I dunno, something like "Well you obviously couldn't give a  about me, ignoring my messages!"

Any suggestions?

Enabler

[Harri]

This thread has reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 5 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341198.msg13087057#msg13087057

Thank you.