Thanksgiving with my BPD mother - need help

[Blinkgreen]

Hi everyone,

First time here and feel so lost on how to handle thanksgiving with my mom. She is classic BPD and it’s impacted me and our relationship my whole life. I’m 32 and married now but in therapy every week trying to accept and release some of the anger I have towards her emotional outbursts, guilt trips, suicide threats, and much more from my child hood. She pushed me over the edge recently and for the sake of my family I cut off communication for several months. We haven’t seen each other since summer but recently touched base and she told me she is flying to the area for thanksgiving to see my brother who lives 4 hours away. She wants to come see me after and wants to stay over in our guest room for two nights. I would like to see her but I know I should set some boundaries and ask that she sleep at a nearby hotel just so we both have space in case something happens. But as a BPD sufferer, she will feel very isolated and threatened by this and lash out with a big burst of sadness, anger and depression which will most likely spur the visit.  My other option is to just let her stay here - the path of least resistance. But I’ve done that my whole life. Ive sacrificed my own happiness and sanity to make sure I wasn’t adding any more pain to her plate. I also won’t have to deal with the guilt of asking her to stay in a hotel when we have a perfectly good guest room here. I don’t know what to do and I’m hoping to just hear some support and help from others who may have experienced this. Thank you

[Turkish]

What do you fear if she stays with you? Have you let her do so before and if so what happened?

[pursuingJoy]

She wants to come see me after and wants to stay over in our guest room for two nights. I would like to see her but I know I should set some boundaries and ask that she sleep at a nearby hotel just so we both have space in case something happens.

Hi Blinkgreen! I'd also love to hear more about what happened in the past to make you feel this way, and add that I recently saw my BPD MIL after a period of NC. To ensure that the visit was successful (positive goal), we planned, structured and timed it so that there was little downtime and clarity about expectations. She was disappointed but for the first time, the planned visit functioned for all of us. Thankfully no extinction bursts yet as I suspect she thinks the new boundaries were a one time experience.

Would you be open to offering options she could choose from? How do you plan to spend your days together? Holidays are tough for many of us. We are here to support, offer suggestions, or challenge you to stretch, whatever you need.

pj

[Notwendy]

When I visit my BPD mother - I stay in a hotel too so I can have some sanity.
Much harder to be in your position. Fortunately, my mother prefers hotels.

Either situation ( stay with you or not ) will take some management on your part.

Is this a precedence you wish to start- when mother visits, she can't stay with us? That's a boundary. When you first start with a boundary- there is a reaction, testing the boundary. But you need to stand firm with this. I actually think it is a good boundary to have as if you say OK to stay this time, the next time it might be for a week!

When you present a boundary, it is best to speak from an "I" perspective. Don't mention her behavior, don't make it about her. Say " My H and I would like some private family time and not have household guests for thanksgiving" " the XXX hotel is very nice and nearby and we would like you to stay there while you visit us".

[GaGrl]

In fact, you can make the hotel reservations and tell her something such as NotWendy suggests, plus "...So we've made reservations at XYZ Hotel."

[MrHT]

For me holidays are always tough.  My family member is uBPD. I have had the exact same issue as you.  I eventually went NC.

The last time I visited them I made it clear I was not staying in the house.  I used the excuse of space in the house but that was just me trying to avoid the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).  Staying in a hotel was the BEST thing I ever did for me.  I felt really bad about it till I saw how much better it was for me.  They also wanted to stay at my house and I had to set boundaries.

She is controlling you through FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).  My uBPD was an expert at using FOG.  I let it affect my life for WAY too many years.  It ruined many of my relationships, life choices, heath and sanity.  

You have to break the cycle ASAP.  It will feel like poop but you have to do it for YOUR sanity (and your families).  If you don't want her to stay at your house but you do want to see her, then tell her so.  "Mom I want to see you but I feel it would be best if you stay at a hotel or friends house.  I understand this may make you feel <angry, sad, etc> but this is something I feel is best till we better our relationship. (or whatever is true and from the heart)"  There is no real reason to justify your boundary.  And don't place the blame on her.

"What do you fear if she stays with you? Have you let her do so before and if so what happened?"  This is just my opinion (and please do not take this the wrong way), but how you answer these questions doesn't matter.  If you don't want her to stay at your house (for any reason) you should not be FOGed into do so.  If you don't want her to stay in the house then that is a valid boundary.  State your boundary to your mom.  It is a valid boundary for anyone (uBPD or not).  :-)

I agree with everything Notwendy stated

And holidays suck if you have a uBPD family member.  I am going to hate this year because I am NC with my uBPD.

[Blinkgreen]

Wow, thank you everyone for your help and advice. It's so nice to hear suggestions and stories from your experiences, and I feel more confident leading up to setting the boundary.

A few people asked about my fear: last time she stayed with me, I had to leave my house in the morning for work and she slept in until her flight took off. I came home and she had moved a picture of me, my husband, my father and stepmother (who she hates) so that it was behind all my other pictures. It was incredibly childish and sick that she would go in my bedroom and actually feel that it was ok to do that. I addressed it with her and told her I was really unhappy about it. She told me she couldn't handle seeing us together and that her action was what she felt she could do in that moment...this was the action that started our period of non-communication. That was about 6 months ago. So I have a general fear of allowing her in my house, but also based on principle not something I want to go through with again. The other fear is that if she stays with us, she will see it as more time to discuss why I've been so upset lately. And I don't want to get into this discussion because I've tried explaining why I'm hurt and upset about the past and she gets very defensive, she doesn't take accountability, and then tells me I should try to focus on all the good she's done. The biggest fear though is if we end up arguing about something, there is really no turning back from it. If she is staying here then she will just sit in our guest room and self-destruct, cry loudly, scream, bang her fists against things - basically a fit of rage. If I ask her to leave, she could threaten suicide which she has done in the past. She'll be reckless and sending her into a car in that state scares me. She will call me non-stop and leave threatening voicemails that she's about to drive off a bridge, etc. I guess all of these things could happen regardless of where she stays, but it scares me so much to think about having to listen to her rage in my home and then deciding what do I want to do with her in that moment. BTW - all of the above has happened before when staying with me. She once even took her anti-depressant meds, poured the whole bottle into her hand in front of me, and put the whole thing in her mouth. I had to wrestle her to the ground and pull the pills out.

It might be crazy to read this next part after reading what I just said - but what's hardest about setting this boundary is that I don't want this. I want to have a mother who stays with me on Thanksgiving, and we have fun, and cook together, and laugh. It's a huge fantasy, I know. I talk to my therapist all the time about this fantasy and I'm coming to terms that it likely won't happen. But the hardest part in all of this is that I want to be able to have this relationship. I've killed myself my whole life trying to make it work, even since I was a kid which was a survival method because I actually needed a mother to care for me. Now that I'm an adult, I'm really struggling shedding the urge to want to help her, fix her, minimize any pain that goes her way. I'm totally controlled by the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). But you're right MrHT, I have to do this for my sanity and my husbands'.

What makes it even harder is that we had one 30 minutes conversation on the phone last week and it went decently well. We haven't spoken in months so we did the standard catching up, talked about how work is going, and very surface-level stuff. So this conversation makes me think "oh, maybe she will be better next time I see her and we won't fight". I know it's an illusion and I've fallen into this trap millions of times. And in the past when I've had that false hope and she disappoints once again, it is so crushing. I get so mad at myself for not seeing her clearly for who she is. I promise myself I will never let this happen again (e.g., I will never let her stay at my house again). I've said this many times, yet here I am struggling with taking that action. And it's all because she acted normal for 30 minutes on a phone call recently.

I know I need to set this boundary. I know deep down it has to start happening now. My husband and I are trying to get pregnant for the first time and I know we will need this type of boundary in our life. Having a child will just bring her around more frequently and will add a lot of stress to the already tenuous situation.

pursuingJoy: setting structured time is a great idea and something I've done in the past. Thank you for reminding me of this. Although kind of funny, my mom specifically requested that we just relax somewhere and catch up. Scares the hell out of me doing that!

Notwendy: I'll try the "I" perspective, I think that's good advice. Whenever I mention her behavior, it's a downhill spiral. And you're right, allowing her this visit sets the precedence that she can treat me like crap, yet still stay at my house after 6 months of not speaking. It also allows more visits and lengthier ones in the future - she is famous for seeing how far she can push me to my limits. She has no boundaries AT ALL. She thinks that since we are mother and daughter, it is fake and unloving to operate a relationship with boundaries. Quite possible why none of her relationships have lasted! She is single btw, divorced from my step dad, lives alone and always reminds me how lonely she is. She does not maintain contact with most of her siblings or other family members and doesn’t have too many friends because she always finds reasons why other people are crazy or not good. It doesn't help that she doesn't have someone consistent in her life, so a lot of this comes my way and my brothers way.

Thank you all for your thoughts, it's been really helpful. I hope to continue the conversation with you all

[Harri]

Hi blink!

My other option is to just let her stay here - the path of least resistance.

I am going to challenge this.  Is it really the path of least resistance?  In the short term probably yes.  Long term though?  What are the consequences to you, your husband and the child you hope to have ( ).  You are correct that over time, if this pattern of avoidance and not establishing boundaries continues, the situation with your mother will only get worse.

Although kind of funny, my mom specifically requested that we just relax somewhere and catch up. Scares the hell out of me doing that!

Then don't do it.  I like the suggestion of structured time by pursuingJoy.  You set the tone and the pace.  Her expectations, while worth considering, do not have to dictate the visit.  You have choices here.  

So I have a general fear of allowing her in my house, but also based on principle not something I want to go through with again.

Good.  You know what you want and where she stays is your choice (well, where she does not stay  )

The other fear is that if she stays with us, she will see it as more time to discuss why I've been so upset lately. And I don't want to get into this discussion because I've tried explaining why I'm hurt and upset about the past and she gets very defensive, she doesn't take accountability, and then tells me I should try to focus on all the good she's done.

This is a somewhat different topic more related to the expectations you have regarding your mom and her behavior and the way she thinks and feels.   Getting our hopes in line with reality is
something we have all struggled with.  You talk of the good times and how a half hour conversation can swing you in the other direction.  I get that, I really do.  It is hard to change and accept that we do not have the mom or the mother daughter relationship we long for.  It is especially hard because as you said, we needed to believe we had it as a means of survival.  I am not sure we ever get completely over that but it can get a lot better over time, with healing, learning about the behaviors associated with BPD and our own responses to them and as we further differentiate from our disordered parent and family dysfunction.  It takes time, constant reminders to ourselves.  For me, self-talk was important    "Remember Harri, your mom is not like that.  It is just not in the cards for you and her".  For me that worked.  It is blunt and harsh for some, so change it up so it works for you.  

The biggest fear though is if we end up arguing about something, there is really no turning back from it. If she is staying here then she will just sit in our guest room and self-destruct, cry loudly, scream, bang her fists against things - basically a fit of rage. If I ask her to leave, she could threaten suicide which she has done in the past. She'll be reckless and sending her into a car in that state scares me. She will call me non-stop and leave threatening voicemails that she's about to drive off a bridge, etc.

What seems the cleanest way to deal with the patterns you have seen over and over?  Let her stay with you and have a series of contingency plans (we can help with that to a point.  I say to a point as we can't plan for everything)?  Or establish that she will stay in a hotel and you will have a few hours at a time with her?  You will still need to consider how to handle things if she does go off the rails though.  Which scenario seems to work better for solving the issue (at *your* end) with changes that have a better impact in the long term and will help set the stage for years to come?

I guess all of these things could happen regardless of where she stays, but it scares me so much to think about having to listen to her rage in my home and then deciding what do I want to do with her in that moment.

Read this over and over.   I thought of my home as my safe haven and for the longest time my mother was not welcome and I never asked her over.  It was years before she ever saw my apartment and when it did happen after I got very ill, it was with limits in place re: time spent there.  She was never alone in my place.

Setting boundaries like having your mom stay in a hotel is a huge change or you.  It is going to feel uncomfortable for you too.  Sometimes, I think the biggest struggle is managing our own discomfort and anxiety as we change things up.  We are generally accustomed and conditioned to always care take our pwBPD and feel anxiety when we don't as we know what can happen as a result.  But go back and re-read what you wrote here:  

I guess all of these things could happen regardless of where she stays

If that is the case, and I believe it is, why not choose what is best for you and your family long term?

 

[New2BPD19]

This post was super helpful and validating.  I'm truly not alone!   @Blinkgreen, your second post hit home.  It was like you had a window into my world.  My uBPD Mom acts the exact same way and is also divorced and cautious with friendships.  It is challenging because I am an only child and she derives all of her support from me.  Setting just minimal boundaries has set her off on her favorite emotional roller coaster. 

[pursuingJoy]

Blinkgreen, checking in to see where you landed with all of this.

I came home and she had moved a picture of me, my husband, my father and stepmother (who she hates) so that it was behind all my other pictures.

Yeah this is pretty immature. I would have felt upset too, because like Harri, my home is my safe haven. I really don't feel safe or respected when people violate my safe haven.

I want to have a mother who stays with me on Thanksgiving, and we have fun, and cook together, and laugh. It's a huge fantasy, I know. I talk to my therapist all the time about this fantasy and I'm coming to terms that it likely won't happen. But the hardest part in all of this is that I want to be able to have this relationship.

Ugh I get this. I was 35, a single mom and traveling to a city several hours away when I hit an animal in the road and totaled my minivan. I cried, not because of the stress of the accident or totaling the van or being stuck overnight in a strange city. I cried because I didn't have a dad to call. I realized that just like your mom, he was never there. It hurts less now, but grief has a way of popping up at odd moments.

I know I need to set this boundary. I know deep down it has to start happening now. My husband and I are trying to get pregnant for the first time and I know we will need this type of boundary in our life. Having a child will just bring her around more frequently and will add a lot of stress to the already tenuous situation.

I applaud your desire to set a new tone and protect your child-to-be. We're here!

pj