Detaching from a very close sibling relationship

[Hortense Finney]

I am in my 60s and only recently realized that I have allowed myself to be a leashed sibling, feeling very proud of how selfless and giving I'd been for decades. I am detaching from a very close sibling relationship and it is very hard, despite knowing that the relationship was flawed and not healthy for either of us. I don't feel sure that my sibling has bpd, because she seems so human, but the shoe seems to fit. However, I keep questioning that maybe I'm the one with the problem. I guess we both have a problem, but I am determined to invest my time and energy in people and relationships that help me grow and don't deplete me of self-esteem and confidence. Well, that's it for my first post. I really am excited to have this resource. Hello out there!

[Panda39]

Hi Hortense,

Welcome to the Group    I come at BPD from a slightly different angle, my partner has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw).  We can't diagnose anyone here but I like you discovered BPD and the shoe fit in terms of my partner's ex.

Can you tell us a little bit more about your relationship with your sister?  What led you to BPD?  What kinds of behaviors are you seeing?  Is there something that you struggle with most in terms of your sister's behavior? Just trying to get a feel for where things stand with you currently.

I'm glad you decided to jump in and join us, I have found the site and it's members to be really helpful.  There is information, tools, support and comradery to be had here.  We all have someone in our lives with BPD or BPD Traits we "get it".

Again Welcome,
Panda39

[Harri]

Hi  

I want to join panda in saying welcome to the board and second the comment that we get it here.  While the details of our situations may be different, there are common themes and issues that we can share.  You are in good company.  

I hope you share more as you feel comfortable.  In the meantime, settle in, read, jump into other threads,etc.  We all work together and support each other here.

Again,

[TelHill]

Welcome! 

My story is being raised by a bpd mom & my older sibling is tone deaf. He meets some of the criteria for a PD.

I am glad you are here too. Take care!

[Hortense Finney]

Dear New Friends,
I hate talking about this because I keep questioning that my perception of what is going on is real. My sister can be so nice and has so many hard things in her life and it's so hard for me to stick to my plan to detach. I actually do miss her but I realize people miss others even in horribly unhealthy relationships. I understand that she really doesn't know what went wrong between us - I'd accepted her unacceptable behavior for a long time and been sympathetic with her. If I explain, which I feel I owe her, it's not like she'd say, "Oh, I can see some things I could change." It would go no where. I don't see a way to have a relationship with her - except maybe by email. I want to have what I think of as a normal sibling relationship where you send each other holiday cards, little birthday presents, attend each other's kids' celebrations, and talk small talk. Maybe this whole idea is wacked and I am imagining that something is wrong with my sister and it's not. That's how I feel today. Yet, even as I say this, I feel her plotting and planning on how to get me to do what she wants me to do around the holidays. Do BPD people plot and plan as well as act on impulse? I feel like my sister spends an inordinate amount of time planning my life, my clothes, my house, my kids' lives (they're grown). This is not out of caring, although she truly does care. This is out of her inability to have a life. My sister is unhealthy physically, weighs more than two football players, and sits on her bed all day obsessing about things she can't control - I think she is pretty sure she CAN control me if she plays her cards right. Is this BPD behavior? I know these characteristics aren't the "hallmark". She also has the hallmark traits. Thanks so much for your input, new friends!

Also, I've not been on a chat room, if that is what this is. So please tell me if I'm not doing it right.

[Harri]

Hi again.

I want to have what I think of as a normal sibling relationship where you send each other holiday cards, little birthday presents, attend each other's kids' celebrations, and talk small talk.

It is difficult in all of these relationships to recognize and accept that the 'norm' is just not going to happen.  We might get close at times but there is an inherent instability given the disordered behaviors and the long standing patterns that exist.  Some of that can change over time with learning tools and strategies to change the way we interact and respond, protecting ourself in the process and taking a more healthy approach to things.  I mention that only to say that sometimes things can improve. 

Do BPD people plot and plan as well as act on impulse? ...Is this BPD behavior?

Some do plan and plot.  I am not certain that it stems from BPD traits though.  It might or it might not.  BPD occurs on a spectrum and can show in a multitude of ways.  What is true for one person may not apply to another.  We really can't generalize beyond the criteria in the DSM.  Also, BPD is often accompanied by other disorders as well.  Some of what you describe from your sister could be anxiety related. 

Can you tell us more about how you respond when your sister does act out?

[Hortense Finney]

I think exploring how I respond to my sister is a key issue. I have been responding to her for 62 years with the exception of one year when she was not speaking to me (which was easy since she was out of the country), so there are a lot of layers which I'm sure is true of all intimate relationships. I think what has brought me to this place is that I have been afraid of her and have asked how high when she said jump. This has taken the form of her excessive emotional neediness and my excessive availability and sympathy, which I now recognize as enabling behavior. An example of this might be that she calls for the first time in the day crying and sobbing and describing how she just hung up on a doctor's office because they couldn't fit her in or something. She conveniently leaves out the part where she's cancelled many appointments or hung up on them before or told them off or something similar. My response has typically been to supportively listen and try to make her feel better. Then she calls again within an hour and needs something else - like an opinion on a dress she's thinking of buying or altering. I am feeling impatient about this call but I try to respond positively and supportively. After that, there'll be another call very soon and all during this call she might be shouting at either her dog or her husband and she will sort of drop little bits of information about having tumors or biopsies or surgeries or appointments which I recognize as ways to solicit my emergency level attention. Then she'll have to go to yell more at the dog or husband and complain about her life which she describes as down the toilet. I will be confused, upset, worried, and spend the next few hours trying to figure out an exercise program or agency or some kind of resource that will help her. I'll call with a great idea in mind to help the situation and she'll listen attentively, thank me profusely and then never follow up on anything I've suggested and she's seemed to agree to as a great idea. I now look at this pattern and see that it has worked well to keep her needs front and center, to keep me off balance and sort of provide me with a sense of virtue for being so willing to drop everything and help (which isn't really help). I can see how this is not a great way for either of us to interact. What I can't see is any alternative. I don't know what to do. Now that I've "seen the light" I am angry and feel like I've been an idiotic chump for about a billion years. I don't want to hear from her or see her at all, yet I know that at some level I do love her. It is a level I can't seem to locate just now.
Thanks again for asking questions. I don't know if I am using this forum correctly or not so again, I ask for guidance and correction if I am not doing this right.

[Panda39]

Hi Hortense,

What if you just let some of those calls go to voicemail and call her back when you are available, instead of jumping to answer every call that interrupts your day?  Maybe you just answer 2 calls a day instead of 20.  What do you think might be a good boundary regarding all of these calls?

Panda39

[Harri]

Hi again!

I like Panda's suggestion of not answering every phone call.  What do you think?

A big part of changing the way we interact with our family members will involve not just behavioral management (of us) but also dealing with the emotional distress we will feel as we change long standing patterns.  It is hard to make those changes and we can experience anxiety, fear, anger, etc.  All of that is to be expected and worked through.   In addition we often face more emotional dysregulation from our family member as they see you changing the established pattern.  Expect this and accept that it is a 'normal' part of the process of changing the dysfunctional dynamics.

You have a lot of awareness about your role which is excellent.  I want you to be cautious about being too harsh with your self assessment though.

Now that I've "seen the light" I am angry and feel like I've been an idiotic chump for about a billion years.

Hoo boy can I relate to this feeling!  The thing is, we respond in ways that we learned often from childhood.  Don't look at your past behaviors and judge yourself based on what you know now, at least not harshly.   Looking at the past and our behaviors is vital but not so we can deride our self.  Use the awareness to fuel your desire and efforts to change.   

I don't want to hear from her or see her at all, yet I know that at some level I do love her. It is a level I can't seem to locate just now.

It's okay to feel this way.  Again, recognizing that you do feel this way is important as it can both guide you in terms of how you choose to respond and can serve as a caution when you do respond. 

I want to have what I think of as a normal sibling relationship where you send each other holiday cards, little birthday presents, attend each other's kids' celebrations, and talk small talk. Maybe this whole idea is wacked and I am imagining that something is wrong with my sister and it's not.

No one here can diagnose your sister (I know you know this) however, the behaviors you describe are difficult to deal with and would strain most peoples patience and compassion.  Changing how we respond may involve our degree of contact (no longer accepting multiple calls a day - a boundary) and or accepting the limitations that your sisters behaviors and personality traits require adjusting expectations.  Having what you describe as a 'normal sibling relationship' may not be in the cards.  Adjusting our expectations and accepting limitations while establishing boundaries and using the tools we offer here can go a long way in terms of improving things for us.  It takes time and can be very hard emotionally to work through all of this but it can be done.  Things can get better for you.

Thoughts?

[Hortense Finney]

These ideas are so great and it's great even just knowing there are people who care enough to respond to problems that in the scheme of things are not very important - no children are in danger, no marriages are dissolving, just two older ladies finding out that despite being sisters, they are not very good for each other. In regard to what used to be multiple phone calls daily, I don't feel like I can manage any phone calls right now. I really want to. I want to be able to catch up and be friendly and warm up each other's sort of coldish world's for a bit, but I can't and I let her know that.  I am responding to emails at about the same level that I am receiving them. I believe I am getting the silent email punishment. My sister does not have a smart phone so texting isn't an issue. This boundary is a first for me and I am pretty preoccupied with being a bad person for setting it. Yet, bad or not, I can't do what I'd been doing. Her subtle, yet always present put downs, competitions, comparisons, expectations, declarations, misinterpretations, and general weirdness are just too much for me at this time. I don't know how it happened over the years, but I let go of all boundaries and now that I am beginning to see where I end and she begins, I want to keep that clarity. I am very afraid that if we began to talk on the phone again, her giant personality would overpower mine and I would just become an extension of her again, or whatever it is that I've been doing. She would, of course, interpret resuming our calls as me, coming to my senses after having been very unfair and mean to her. She has already let me know about all the mistakes I've made in talking to her on the phone recently, as though she thought that would make me want to resume talking.  In the past, I would have felt so lousy (I guess it's called FOG) that I would have agreed. Now, I don't. Despite the approachable parts of her personality, I am reminding myself to be aware of the very hurtful and destructive things she has done and although I do want to be a forgiving person, I do not want to be a stupid person. I am trying to be very clear with myself that I am not going to re-engage by phone hopefully ever for just chatting at her whim.
I want to share that I've been reading "Walking on Eggshells" and I am really helped by it. I guess I am beginning to conclude that whether my sister is BPD or not officially, she is too much for me. Whether it's her personality or my personality that isn't up to snuff, we don't work well together. She would say that we do but that's because the relationship has been so unilateral. Although I may be a terrible person for cutting things off/attempting to change the relationship, I recognize that I actually am terrible in some ways. This won't be my only or last terrible thing. 
I want to tell her how much I wish her well, but that would only confuse her. The best thing for us both, I am thinking is for me to trust that she is smart, resourceful, strong, resilient, and can make it just fine in the world without me. And even though it would be fun to share each other's worlds at times, at other times it is unbearable. Just because things are good or fun doesn't mean they are good for us - right. I love potato chips -very bad. I realize that my sister is someone I would not choose as a friend. My sister actually has very few friends because of the reciprocal nature of friendship. I do not have as many friends as I would like because I am not a very social person. Perfect storm with me being a hermit and her being  - well, the way she is. Being sisters, having common DNA doesn't mean override incompatibility. We want very different lives and now that I see what I've been doing, living for her, I feel like it's kind of urgent to get on to the business of living for me. 
Well, I guess I turned out to have a little manifesto inside me this afternoon. Sorry for the preachy approach. Thanks again for your responses.
Can you tell me how to respond to other people? What do I click on to see other people's posts?

[Panda39]

Hi Hortense,

There are a couple of different ways to see other people's posts.

One is to click on the "Groups" Tab above in the green header, that will list all the groups and the Library of Resources on the site.  Once there just click on the group you are interested in and that will bring up all the active conversations (they are in order by most recent.)  Just click on whatever sounds interesting.

Another way to follow active conversations is to click on "Show unread posts since last visit" up near the top of the page that will bring up the most recent conversations on all the boards.  Again just click on whatever looks interesting.

Once you click on a discussion it will look just like this one, to jump in and post a comment just click the "reply" Tab at the bottom right.

I'm glad you are reaching out and jumping in, if you're like me you will be amazed at how similar our stories can be.  And never worry about venting here, it is a safe place to do it and we have all done it! 

I like a lot of what I'm hearing from you.  You clearly love your sister but have recognized that the relationship is not the best...I love the potato chip analogy (okay and I love potato chips too!  it describes what these relationships can feel like perfectly. 

It's great to hear that you are realizing that it is okay put yourself first and have a life of your own. It is important that you take care of you.  We talk alot about self-care around here because having someone in our lives with BPD/BPD Traits can be extremely draining.  You are no help to anyone...yourself or your sister if you are exhausted.

...In regard to what used to be multiple phone calls daily, I don't feel like I can manage any phone calls right now. I really want to. I want to be able to catch up and be friendly and warm up each other's sort of coldish world's for a bit, but I can't and I let her know that.

It's good that you could tell her that you couldn't respond to the calls now...self care!  You already know one of the tools 

My sister does not have a smart phone so texting isn't an issue.

Thank goodness for small favors!  Texting is the bane of many here.

This boundary is a first for me and I am pretty preoccupied with being a bad person for setting it.

Boundaries are about protecting ourselves and not about punishing someone else. 



You are likely experiencing FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) here is a link to more on FOG... https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

I've got to run now but keep doing what you are doing you are on the right path...it's a journey and everyone here is on it.

Take Care,
Panda39

[Hortense Finney]

Dear Panda,
First, thanks so much for the encouragement. I just opened a super mean email from my sister which hurt my feelings a lot and it was so nice to be able to go to this site and know there would be kindness here.
Also, thanks so much for the technical advice about how to navigate this site. I look forward to exchanging ideas, etc.
I love your heart sign about boundaries, although my sister sees me as being very punishing.
Getting this last email, my sister said I am no longer her sister and she won't contact me again. This is the second time she has emailed me saying she won't contact me again. Interestingly, along with the FOG that is definitely a huge part of the experience of reading her email, I read it with a degree of detachment. It was all about how she needed someone and I wasn't there for her. It was about her loss of contact with my kids and husband and how deprived she feels. She doesn't give a hoot about me! For years I have been  - well, these words are straight out of a terrible movie - sacrificing for her and she doesn't care a bit about me.  She's just mad. I guess I have to weigh this horrible experience against the horrible experience of continuing to be her 5th limb. I am the first and only person in my family to ever set limits for her and it's kind of surprising who she turns out to be in this situation. She's pretty awful. What's kind of ironic and would be funny if it weren't so sad and hurtful, is that she somehow thinks being super mean will entice me into resuming our friendship. All I can figure is that it must have worked before.
I think my work now is to "grieve" the relationship. I am so very sad I feel a little unsure that my life is worth setting boundaries for. It's not like I'm a great leader or inventor or anything. I guess I am seeing that being her "savior" has been a big part of my self worth too. Again - the perfect storm. Not healthy. I need to get past this and be hopeful that I will meet new people with whom I can interact positively. Now that there is a big hole in my life, maybe there will be room for this to happen. Not sure how likely this is at my age. Gotta expand my world beyond the grocery store!