Threat from my dad

[ProudDad12]

Was posting a reply to the thread below but realized it might be more appropriate as a new thread...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340888.0

I was all excited that I was going to get to post back after a few days and not complain about new events... but unfortunately the streak broke today. Both my dad and by brother started calling me at my work and leaving voicemails. My dad actually works at a large facility in our company, and he was calling from there so it showed up as the main number and not him. I still new better than to answer, figuring in the off chance it was work related they could leave a voicemail. Well he kept calling until he left a couple of voicemails, one telling me that I "need to call him". The other telling me that we are going to talk one way or another, and he doesn't think I want him coming to our house. My brother was just playing the guilt card that he can't believe I don't love my brother enough to not shut him out. I'm wondering what happened over the weekend to put them up to this today. I'm guessing my mom probably did her victim thing.

Given everything that has been said to and about us and how thoroughly they have burned the bridge with my wife, I wasn't about to respond to my dad's aggressive posturing to try to bully me into calling back. And my brother made his stance clear months back when we talked and he finally hung up on me because he didn't like what I had to say. But I have no idea how serious to take the threat of him showing up. And I'm scared what it would do to our kids to see it happen. Given his previous joking about shooting my wife, and his history of having a short temper and aggressive (sometimes violent) tendencies, my wife was taking the road of worrying about safety. She (along with a close friend, his lawyer wife, and a Safety Resource Officer at my wife's school) finally convinced me to file an informational police report just in case something does happen; there will be some background documented. I can't believe my life is at a point where I actually agreed to do that.

My wife also wants me to report them to HR for using company time and resources to harass me at work, but I don't want to do anything to hurt their livelihood, despite their disregard for mine.  I'm scared all this is going to catch up to me at work and that brings it's own stress. I've already struggled to stay focused at work these past few months.

While that might not do the situation justice, all in all today has been an awful and emotionally draining day, and I'm pretty torn up on the inside.

[pursuingJoy]

ProudDad, this does sound like an intense day. I'd like to make a quick observation: I hear a greater measure of peace and clarity coming through. I know this was an emotional experience, but I hear a resoluteness that's pretty cool, even in knowing your limits for what you can handle right now. Feel free to counter if I'm way off.

Doesn't take away your frustration and pain. This was a step or two back, for sure. But I really believe that this is going to improve. Keep it up.

pj

[pursuingJoy]

One more thought in response to your concern about this being a viable threat: it sounds like you took a reasonable step by documenting the incident. You don't feel comfortable with filling a report at work, again, reasonable.

Can you identify in a statement or two what it is that is making you feel torn up inside? (This activity of condensing to one statement sometimes helps me get to the root of the struggle.)

In this situation, is there anything more you can do to achieve your goal of protecting your family from abuse?

We're with you!

[ProudDad12]

ProudDad, this does sound like an intense day. I'd like to make a quick observation: I hear a greater measure of peace and clarity coming through. I know this was an emotional experience, but I hear a resoluteness that's pretty cool, even in knowing your limits for what you can handle right now. Feel free to counter if I'm way off.

Doesn't take away your frustration and pain. This was a step or two back, for sure. But I really believe that this is going to improve. Keep it up.

pj

I appreciate it. I'm definitely doing a little better than I was earlier. Unfortunately not before choking up in front of my daughter for a few seconds though. Hugged her and made sure she knew it wasn't her fault or problem.

We leaned heavy on friends today. It also helped that my uncle reached out to us to show some support. He actually called my dad today to try to try to talk and reason a little, but my dad was around people so he couldn't say much. My uncle is scratching his head at my dad's behavior as much as we are.

Can you identify in a statement or two what it is that is making you feel torn up inside? (This activity of condensing to one statement sometimes helps me get to the root of the struggle.)

Emotionally exhausted from prolonged dealing with this, in shock that I actually filed a police report against my own father (informational or not), concerned I may need to make alternate arrangements for my work at home job this week, and despite everything, aware that my dad and brother have still succeeded in making me feel like a terrible son and brother. Also paranoid, my wife and I keep checking the windows.

I feel like I'm able to protect my wife and kids from most things. But one of my biggest weaknesses is my distorted sense of guilt cultivated by my mom, and they play that weakness perfectly. And this whole situation is forcing me to almost constantly fight through that weakness. It's exhausting.

In this situation, is there anything more you can do to achieve your goal of protecting your family from abuse?

We're with you!

My friend would say yes. He and a few others have pointed out that at this point this is considered stalking. He and his wife were describing potential next steps, such as seeking a cease and desist and/or injunction if they show up and continue.  But he's also aware I'm not there yet in my head. Another part of why I'm torn up, it's just crazy to think how this all started and this is where we are now. I'm having trouble rationalizing that as a potential necessity, and it's hard to think about. Hopefully it won't be necessary.

In the mean time, we're taking the more realistic steps of making sure doors are locked, etc. While I don't expect anything safety threatening will happen (but not discounting the possibility), I am concerned of them showing up with our kids home, forcing them to witness whatever drama plays out.

We need breathing room, and their refusal to accept NC is making it so much worse, and escalating more than I expected.

[Notwendy]

Proud Dad- I support your efforts to be NC and to protect your family.

One of the things that helped me the most was having a 12 step codependency sponsor and a counselor who turned the mirror on me. Yes, my mother has a disorder. my father was her enabler but there was also me in the mix- and I'm the only one I have the ability to change. It isn't easy to see my role in this- but it is also helpful- so I sometimes "pass on the favor".

That said, I want to speak a bit about reactivity. Your parents are who they are, and mine tend to say really mean things when they are angry/ disregulated. Mean hurtful things. But it's basically "word vomit" and after they have said it, they don't think about it much. Meanwhile, my feelings are hurt.

Part of the work I did was to not react so much to their words when they are in this state- and to not take them personally. They actually say more about them than me, and are often projections of their own inner turmoil. Reacting escalates the drama. Not reacting de escalates it.

My own personal goal was less drama. To achieve this, my counselor helped me to "stay calm in the storm". One technique was to keep in mind that just because they say something about me, doesn't make it true. I don't have to react to it. In fact, reacting to it in a way validates it. It helped to substitute "pink elephant" or something absurd like that. If your parents call you, or your wife, a pink elephant- do you need to react? You know this doesn't make you one.

From your posts, your wife is reactive to your parents. I don't blame her, they have said some mean things- but the response may be escalating the issue. Purging the house, wanting to call HR. If you believe your father might harm you- then the police report is a reasonable action to protect yourself. Calling HR is an action that would harm your father's livelihood and reputation. It makes you the persecutor in this drama- it seems like a retaliation. This IMHO is crossing the line from self defense to harm.

Our goal with not being as reactive is middle ground. What your parents are doing is going to one extreme. Retaliation is the other extreme. One reaction to the call would be to not react- stay calm. If he shows up and you think he is violent, call 911. On the other hand, he might just be hurt and angry, and doesn't understand what is going on.

You are in a bit of a triangle with your wife and parents.  She's angry and hurt. But now, you need to be honest with yourself. How much of your actions are coming from a place you truly want, and how much is due to her wanting you to do them? I am not trying to get into your marriage, ( and I have worked on a lot of my own co-dependent tendencies to do things my H wants, even if I don't want to) but it might take some being honest with her about what you aren't comfortable with, such as calling HR on your father if it isn't necessary for protection of your family.

[Notwendy]

I'm doing it because I want to separate my family from the emotional abuse. Whether that take the form of an apology via self improvement on her part (never going to happen), or NC.


I copied this from your other post so I could comment on it. While my parents were not potentially violent. ( Dad didn't own a gun) they could be very cruel. My mother does retaliate in cruel ways- and seems to have no conscience or empathy when she does it.

I also wanted to protect myself from the abuse. I had to asses what the danger was. It wasn't physical. She's a tiny elderly woman and my father was not in good health. It wasn't financial- I am not dependent on them for that- so she could write me out of the will ( and she did) without this being harmful to me- although it did hurt my feelings to think my father would do that. The way they potentially could abuse me was emotional abuse- which they did. I don't minimize this at all, but I also wanted to explore ways to make it less effective.

One way was to disengage. I can't control what they say. But I don't have to tolerate it. Once my mother went off on me. I had a suitcase packed, and walked out the door. Just like that. If she's doing it on the phone, I politely say " I need to go now, talk to you later" and hang up. After doing this several times, she has gotten the message without me even saying anything to her about it. It takes two to engage in drama.

What is happening with your parents is an extinction burst. On the other hand, they are also understandably upset. Even awful parents would have to adjust to a child going NC. They are dealing with this the way they deal with any thing that upsets them- projecting, acting out. It's easy to feel reactive to their words- they can push our buttons because these are familiar to them.

But what if they couldn't? Who owns the buttons? We do. And we can change that. After a lot of work on this, I realized in a conversation that my mother had said something that would have upset me, and it didn't. I didn't have an emotional reaction to it. That was a big step.

My mother hasn't changed. There isn't any self improvement on her part. But some work on me has made her less emotionally abusive. She's still cold, and says mean things, but they are less likely to hurt my feelings. I still limit my contact with her - it's not easy for me to be around her, but this contact becomes less abusive when I don't react to it.

[formflier]

I see two places to focus your energy.

1.  Your wife
2.  Contact (or lack thereof) with your family.

1.  Hopefully will have good returns putting energy in here.  I think it's important for you to important to build the relationship with your wife independently of this issue with your family.  Not that you are ignoring the family issue, but you want it to be a minor part of your relationship.  The hope would be that when "something comes up" from your family you can hug your wife, assure her of support and then state that you each should consider a response and talk more in a few days.

Slowing things down should help with reactivity.


2.  As far as things with your family it seems you are doing a good job not taking bait (especially heads up to not answer that phone at your desk). 

Just an idea to consider going forward. 

Right now they are in charge of when they stir your life up.  It's obviously upsetting to you and stirs the pot with your wife.

Do you think if you took charge of communication on a LC basis that you could alter this dynamic?  So...let's say you send out an update on your family...some pics, wish you parents well, and let them know that you will communicate again in a couple of weeks.  Sign off by asking them to respect your privacy and not contact you for those two weeks.

Is there any chance they would honor that?  Have you tried this kinda thing?

Again..solid work protecting your family!

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

To follow FF's suggestion on this.
I respect your decision to go NC, but the drama as a result is disruptive to you.


When my father died, my parents ( it was my mother's idea) disowned me. Mother painted me black to her family. They stopped speaking to me.

This was a clear "out" opportunity. I could have gone NC at this point and I had plenty of reason to. Nobody would have blamed me for that if they knew the situation and things she had done.

I was grieving and distraught.

But I was not at peace with myself at the idea of NC. I could have done it, and it probably was a reasonable thing to do but I knew I would not be at peace with it.  If I can't manage it- then I know that any reaction would affect me emotionally.

I also knew my mother. She could believe I was the worst person in the world, want nothing to do with me at the moment. A week later, she'd act like nothing happened. Her words emotionally affected me more than they bothered her.

A wise older woman advised me to call my mother on a schedule. No matter what. If she called at other times, I could ignore it, and I didn't have to talk to her at other times. So I began to call her on Sunday afternoon.

These were difficult and awkward calls. Sometimes she wasn't home. I'd leave a message. Sometimes she didn't want to talk, sometimes I didn't. But a brief, non dramatic " Hi, just called to see how you are doing" call- eventually the schedule helped with any abandonment fears if she had any. Often during these calls, she mostly talks about herself. She may ask a few details about the kids, and I give her general responses. Sometimes she says something that would upset me. I simply politely disengage.

I don't call every Sunday now. Sometimes a couple weeks go by. She doesn't call me either. I'm not sure she cares if I call or not. But having had a schedule has given her the message that I am available to talk to her at these times and she knows that now. She sometimes calls at other times. I can pick up or not. One good thing is that- I have decided this- this is my schedule- and my choice. I can feel OK about that.

It's not about NC or LC, PD- it's about YOU. What plan helps you get some peace with yourself.

[formflier]

It's interesting to see how other people work these things out.

I have chosen the path I have (LC) with my in-laws because it's me "picking"...vice responding to them "picking".

I would rather "chose my own poison" than have someone else do it for me.
 
Plus, because of all the children and crazy schedules there is a logistical benefit to being in contact with them.

For instance...the other day it was beneficial for me to not have to watch D6.  I could have done it but it would have been simpler to focus on my task (honestly forgotten it at the moment..likely paperwork about rental property)

Anyway...most 6 year olds think grandmas house is the best ever (as does mine) so asking her if she wanted me to ask if she could come over was an easy sell.  I texted, they said they were home, D6 was dropped off and I got my task done.

Let's look at another time when I debated contact and decided to focus on my wife instead (kinda like your situation)

My MIL's family is full of BPDish women.  They split into two factions years ago and stopped speaking to each other.  Well..stopped speaking after some nasty packages and mail was sent back and forth.

Bad.

Anyway my MIL's sister (that was on the other side) passed away recently.  My wife was really affected by this because she knew it meant no chance of reconciliation.  This aunt got cremated and specified no services of any kind...so there would be nothing for anyone to show up to.

I considering suggesting to my wife that we send a sympathy card (maybe including grandkids in signing it) or some other gesture to my MIL.

Anyway..I couldn't get it worked out in my head that this would go well, so instead I doubled my focus and "being present" for my wife for a week or so.

My wife wanted to talk about it a couple times and then seemed to enjoy the extra attention.

Hope this gives you some perspective in how I pick and choose.  With the emphasis being on my choice.

Hey...Notwendy, how did you handle grandkids calling and jumping in on your phone calls?  Was hubby ever involved?

I would guess at first it might be smart for just PD12 to call if he wanted to try this and perhaps include others later once things have settled down.


Keep up the good work.

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

ProudDad,

Having been in your wife's shoes, I really like FF's suggestion below for three reasons: it gives you something other than the drama to proactively focus on, it offers her reassurance that you're together in this, and it allows you both needed time to process before you respond. 

The hope would be that when "something comes up" from your family you can hug your wife, assure her of support and then state that you each should consider a response and talk more in a few days.

Slowing things down should help with reactivity.

Right now they are in charge of when they stir your life up.  It's obviously upsetting to you and stirs the pot with your wife.

It seems FF is right about this, but I also know firsthand how hard it is to manage emotions in a storm. For now, it sounds like you've taken reasonable action. You were also able to speak up when additional suggested action steps made you uncomfortable.   

I'm not sure now is a good time to wrestle with changing boundaries. Until this point you've been upholding NC, correct? I'm no expert, but in a storm, I like to keep things simple. How about for now, you keep the focus on upholding the boundary you've set, managing emotions, and caring for yourself, your wife and children. Despite your current disbelief, you also knew the streak would break. I've encountered the same patterns when I set boundaries. A lot of this is to be expected.

For now, wait for the storm to pass. It will.

When you're ready and things have stabilized, think about what Notwendy said - what future plan helps you get some peace for yourself?

We're here, and you can do this.
pj

[formflier]

allows you both needed time to process before you respond. 
 

Even to respond to each other.  Briefly acknowledge what happened.  Make sure you understand the moving parts and then agree to give it thought and come back together after a period of time.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

Even to respond to each other.  Briefly acknowledge what happened.  Make sure you understand the moving parts and then agree to give it thought and come back together after a period of time.

Best,

FF

I agree. Your wife's agitation and reaction could be in response to seeing your pain. Letting your thoughts incubate before discussing could alleviate that for both of you.  Great the conversation with your wife like an email that hi need to think about before writing back.

On a practical level, do you have a Ring camera at your front door? If not, it could be a relatively cheap way to know who's standing at the door and to talk to someone without opening the door.

[Notwendy]

FF, to answer your question, the dynamics are different. My kids didn't bond with my mother, in a similar way that I didn't. Not because of me but her. She isn't maternal. She enjoyed being a grandmother but that basically meant being in their presence but not interacting with them on their level.

My mother wasn't alone with them, ever. It was always her and my father. She'd basically sit on the couch watching TV while he played with them, read them stories. They loved my Dad. I am sure this irked my mother, but I think to have a relationship with a child, one needs to do things with them on their level. My mother didn't.

This gave me some insight to what my own early childhood must have been like. My mother isn't interested in caregiving anyone. She's mostly about having people do things for her. Visiting wasn't any different. I would cook dinner, clean up, everyone would eat. Mom would then relax on her own and Dad would play with the kids.

I don't force a relationship with the kids, but to maintain some sense of decency, if we are together on a holiday, we call her. We call all the grandparents as we don't live close enough to drop by. It would look strange to call my in laws and not her. But they tolerate the phone calls. They don't ask to do them. My mother in law is the grandma type. She bakes cookies with them, played games with them. They love to visit her.

With my H - this is also dynamics according to gender. My mother likes men better than women, and sees me as some kind of competition for my father's affection, but she also tries to triangulate me with my H. In her younger years, she was a beauty and men noticed her and she knows how to be charming. She acts charming with my H. I don't think it's seductive at this point, but she wants him to like her. She's pretty much harmless with him as he doesn't react to her. He's aware of our history and issues together. He lets me handle it. Sometimes he's even shocked at my distance with her- because it isn't something he's experienced needing to do. His father was a critical man, but his mother leans towards co-dependency yet, she is genuinely loving and caring. I trust her with my kids. My H is good to his mother and I think that is a good thing. I think sometimes it is hard for him to relate to my relationship with my mother, but he's also seen me struggle with dealing with her. He also knows what she is like- he's seen her behavior. He doesn't have to deal with boundaries with her- because it's my family situation to manage,  and I have the boundaries.

[ProudDad12]

First off, I really appreciate everyone's encouragement. It means a lot.

NotWendy, you're right about not being reactive, and it's been a tricky navigation for us. While I'd probably be wrong to say the HR part had zero basis in retaliation, a lot of it was to stop them from contacting me through work via work resources of which I have limited control. For now I'm just having to be careful of answering the phone. I'm at the point of not answering any number I don't recognize, which can get a little disruptive given my job has me getting calls from all over the state, but that's what voicemail is for.

I'm sure my dad is absolutely hurt and angry, and doesn't understand this. Unfortunately that naivety doesn't take away the impacts of his words and actions. I've spent the past 3 years wanting to be able to use healthy boundaries to maintain some level of LC. And I think I could absolutely do it if it was just me I had to worry about. But with having our D6 and S2 to worry about, it's more complicated. And we're so far through the looking glass with my family at this point that ideas I used to dismiss as exaggeration and paranoia are starting to look like actual possibilities. Such as putting unhealthy or toxic ideas in our daughters head. If nothing else our therapist has suggested maybe her behavior improvement is linked to her no longer feeling torn between us and my mom & sister, based on whatever they've been telling her. Again, feels so paranoid saying that, but I've seen too much craziness at this point, as well as tangible improvements with D6, to dismiss the idea.

Another angle is that it's all or nothing with my family. My mom loves to passive aggressively voice her standard of us bringing the kid to see her every 3 weeks. When we were trying to back off a bit over the past few years, we obviously didn't meet or agree to that standard. Sometimes it might be a couple months, ignoring any times we'd see them elsewhere. And when we did see them it was day trips and not overnight trips.

By a lot of standards that might be perfectly fine. But a lot of the conflict this time around was fueled on their end by their anger/frustration of us not meeting their expectations of frequency and duration in bringing the kids to see them.

Point being is that LC seems to cause extra tension. Also, a relationship with me that doesn't include the kids is just never going to fly with them, because in the end it's our kids they are after.

And after all that, knowing what my mom is willing to do or say behind our backs all while loving us to our faces, all trust is gone. I just don't know how to be around her and not be absolutely uncomfortable. I actually can't remember last time I was comfortable around my mom. Heck, even calling her stresses me out. During times of "peace" with them, I spend all of Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc., dreading the call I place to them. Because it's almost always a guarantee it's going to go South, even if not on the surface. And we get so tired of their conversations with our kids consisting mostly of "When are you going to come see me?". As if it was our kids' responsibility.

Regarding the buttons, yeah, I'm trying really hard to take control over them. I'm actually working from my in-laws' apartment today, not wanting to deal with the drama and additional lost work time of my dad potentially showing up at my house. My wife said last night she doesn't feel safe in our house right now, and I get it. We've both been keeping an eye on the windows. I feel like a complete idiot for letting him drive me out of my house, and recognizing that control he's exhibited tastes like vomit in my mouth.

formflier, I choose option 1! This whole thing has brought us even closer, because the silver lining of this nonsense is she's finally getting to witness firsthand that I prioritize her over them. She's feeling validated for sticking around all this time while I was still a player in their enmeshed system. We've noted that 95% of the fights during our marriage can somehow be traced back to my family, be it disagreement in how to handle something, or simply manifestation of general tensions from dealing with them. That said, I do want to devote more energy with her that has nothing to do with my family. I'm so tired of them taking up so much of our time and emotional/mental energy. Another reason we're hoping to finally achieve true NC for a much needed breather. But they aren't going to take it lying down and I expect more escalation as we approach Christmas.

For what it's worth, we spent a lot of time hugging yesterday after work. Not knowing what to do or say, but just being there.

pursuingJoy, you hit on a part that's been bugging me but didn't explicitly realize until just now. We actually have been trying to slow down, acknowledging that things my family does doesn't have to be addressed, or even thought about, right away. In fact, we sometimes sleep on it and never come back to it at all, and yet the earth keeps spinning somehow. My dad, consciously or not, circumvented that yesterday. I knew he's enough of a hothead to make good on what he said, which meant as soon as I got his voicemail, I was on a clock. And I had 2 hours to respond or start watching the door (he lives 2 hours away). So it put us back into crisis mode and inhibited our ability to step away for a bit. That angle to this frustrates me.

Now that I'm looking back on yesterday, I think another part of the problem is I couldn't catch my breath. I was getting phone call after phone call, be it multiples from my friend to check on me and give advice, from his lawyer wife to also give advice, multiple calls from my wife, etc. Then work. Then the multiple calls from dad and brother. It just all added up and I couldn't get my wits about me, adding to my internal disruption.

But to answer the question, yes we held the NC yesterday. Waiting to see if my dad was bluffing.

I'll say one thing we haven't done is the letting our thoughts incubate before comparing notes and thoughts. Never even thought about it. We've felt so "under attack" the past few months that we're almost constantly staying metaphorically huddled up and on guard, and quick to communicate with each other. Not sure of that make sense. I mean we still have our jobs and meetings, etc., but if something happens we're usually touching base with each other as soon as we're able.

GaGrl, we have a Vivint system with their brand camera. Problem is, whether he remembers or not, my dad has a key to the house. Not to mention he could stand at the door and talk loudly and make enough of a scene that our kids would hear him from inside and come running. And while I agreed to taking the precautionary step of the informational report in the event he snaps, my bigger (read: more likely) fear is of him causing a scene of words and drama that upsets or even traumatizes our children, never mind the ramifications of whatever argument we have. Just to be clear, its not that I'm scared of him. Well, I guess in some ways I am. I just know that he's a hothead, and I struggle with my own anger management issues, so I do NOT see him showing up to our house ending positively. Add in any potential medications he's on, prescribed or not (my mom has a stash), plus the fact he always has a gun handy outside of work, and it gets even more precarious.

[pursuingJoy]

ProudDad I know this is stressful. I'm sorry.

It sounds like you're firmly upholding your decision to go NC. They're receiving a consistent message from you. Bravo!

if something happens we're usually touching base with each other as soon as we're able.

So glad that you and your wife are mutually supportive. You're working together and communicating. I'm hopeful that soon you'll make time for things to focus on other than this fear and drama. Your brain and heart need a break, and you have the power to create that break.

Now that I'm looking back on yesterday, I think another part of the problem is I couldn't catch my breath. I was getting phone call after phone call, be it multiples from my friend to check on me and give advice, from his lawyer wife to also give advice, multiple calls from my wife, etc. Then work. Then the multiple calls from dad and brother. It just all added up and I couldn't get my wits about me, adding to my internal disruption.

You are holding your boundary of NC, and you have taken reasonable, responsible steps to address your dad's threat of showing up, real or bluff.

Accepting a flurry of calls, even from well-meaning friends and spouse, is possibly a way of allowing your parents' drama to overpower your thoughts and family life. What would it look like to accept only one or two of these calls, then give yourself time away from the conversations to process? What would happen if you paced yourself? Is limiting their access to your thoughts another way to enforce your boundary with them?

You're dealing with so much, and you're doing well. Keep sharing. I worry about you and your little family, and I'm impressed, and I'm hopeful. Cheering you on from my corner of the world.

This storm will pass, PD12.
pj
 

[Notwendy]

I understand the protecting your kids. It's the reason I started with boundaries as well. My mother was pretty benign, supervised - when they were little. She really didn't interact with them much on a personal level. But when they got older, she began to "use" them as confidants and enlist them as her emotional caretakers and there was no way I would go along with that.

We don't live as close to my parents as you do with yours, so LC was easier. Had we lived closer, there would have been the need for more boundaries probably.

My mother is relentless when it come to getting her way. If she wants something but isn't sure you will agree- she asks for something more agreeable, then pushes the boundary bit by bit by bit. She isn't forthcoming, so it ends up being a serial power struggle as she pushes it. I usually don't have an idea of what her true agenda is- what she really wants. Eventually I end up saying no, and she acts hurt.

Dad would just agree to everything to avoid the struggle. I don't blame him. It's tough. I understand your position of feeling it is all or none with your parents. It seems that way with mine too. Giving what you can isn't good enough for either of mine.

I wish you strength with this challenging situation.

[TelHill]

Point being is that LC seems to cause extra tension. Also, a relationship with me that doesn't include the kids is just never going to fly with them, because in the end it's our kids they are after.

And after all that, knowing what my mom is willing to do or say behind our backs all while loving us to our faces, all trust is gone. I just don't know how to be around her and not be absolutely uncomfortable. I actually can't remember last time I was comfortable around my mom. Heck, even calling her stresses me out. During times of "peace" with them, I spend all of Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc., dreading the call I place to them. Because it's almost always a guarantee it's going to go South, even if not on the surface. And we get so tired of their conversations with our kids consisting mostly of "When are you going to come see me?". As if it was our kids' responsibility.

PD, sorry you are going through this again with your family.

LC in my mind is to call once a week at most. My dad does not like talking on the phone so I'd speak to mom. The late H & I would visit once or twice a month for lunch. The visit would last two hours.  I used to do that when my H was alive. My home is 40 miles away and my dad refused to drive in the big city to visit me. It worked well to keep the drama down and keep my life separate.

Now that I'm looking back on yesterday, I think another part of the problem is I couldn't catch my breath. I was getting phone call after phone call, be it multiples from my friend to check on me and give advice, from his lawyer wife to also give advice, multiple calls from my wife, etc. Then work. Then the multiple calls from dad and brother. It just all added up and I couldn't get my wits about me, adding to my internal disruption.

But to answer the question, yes we held the NC yesterday. Waiting to see if my dad was bluffing.

I'll say one thing we haven't done is the letting our thoughts incubate before comparing notes and thoughts. Never even thought about it. We've felt so "under attack" the past few months that we're almost constantly staying metaphorically huddled up and on guard, and quick to communicate with each other. Not sure of that make sense. I mean we still have our jobs and meetings, etc., but if something happens we're usually touching base with each other as soon as we're able.

PD, this sounds like the situation has become even more overheated.  I see a bit of myself in you -- I want to resolve things quickly to move on.  It's great with work projects. Not so great within your FOO.  It's not something to be quickly taken care of so the next project can be worked on. My parents are both manipulative and cruel. My brother is as well.  They will change only if they want to.  I've retorted back and used JADE - doesn't work, surprise, surprise. It adds fuel to the fire.  Going to work at an undisclosed location to avoid your dad who has a firearm and a key to your house is letting your imagination run away from you. Has he done anything violent in the past? If he wants to see you and your family, am sure your dad knows playing vigilante will land him in jail.

You can screen your calls so you can let vm take calls from the main number and your dad's and brother's extensions. Not sure why you are avoiding other calls. There's no need to.

I worked at a large nationwide company with branches all over the US.I chose to switch units and departments because I had less than stellar bosses. A lot of people do this.  Would you consider switching companies? I personally would not like my brother to work at the same company as me. It will never happen because of his profession, but I wouldn't consider it if we worked in the same industry. He's very competitive and would make my work life a nightmare.

Really, take it easy. It looks like this molehill is turning into a mountain. Tell your FOO anything to take a month break from this, including not going to social media -- you have too much work around the house, holiday stress, etc.  I think a white lie is in order. You seem like a smart person.  Take a breather from them to bring out your better self to make wise decisions. No one benefits from high drama.

[pursuingJoy]

Thinking of you and your family, PD12. Give us an update when you get a chance!

pj

[ProudDad12]

Sorry PJ, yesterday was kinda rough, and haven't had a chance to respond. Regarding my parents, so far nothing has changed. Nobody has shown up at the door yet. Though they know I have Fridays off, so who knows what tomorrow will bring!

Again, thank you everyone for the help and encouragement. I've said it more than once, but it's nice having a place to discuss this stuff where others understand it.

TelHill, you're right, its becoming overheated. I understand how paranoid my actions may seem, but I just worked at an alternate location for that one day. And among other reasons, I just needed to be able to focus on work and not whatever would happen had he shown up. As far as what he would and wouldn't do, I honestly don't know. He's been dealing with my mom in a high emotional state for 4 months now, is on an unknown combination of medication from his surgery, and is frustrated with this situation, so I don't know what his mental state is. Add to that a short temper and the fact he's made crude jokes about shooting my wife in the past, I feel the need to play it a little cautious. As far as violent actions in the past, I don't feel comfortable going into detail, but unless I'm being lied to about some serious things, the answer is yes. I don't want to paint a picture of a violent and uncontrollable man, because that's not what he is, but he has enough temper make me uneasy.

I think the sum of it is this... Do I think my dad will do something stupid? No. But I still can't discount the possibility from my imagination. Like I said in a previous post, I think the biggest true risk is just a dramatic confrontation of words. But even that is something I would like to avoid, especially during my work day or while the kids are home.

We've been trying to take a break from them for a little while now, but that means they don't see our kids (which is off the table with the circumstances), so our attempt at a break is just making things worse. In fact, if I break NC to say anything, it's going to be along the lines of if they want any chance of reconciliation in the future they'll back off. I just haven't convinced myself that won't make it worse.

Sorry, I rambled a bit more than I meant. Past couple days have just been trying to absorb and process this nonsense. Thanks again for the support!

[Turkish]

Add to that a short temper and the fact he's made crude jokes about shooting my wife in the past,

That's nothing to joke about. How did you respond?

[pursuingJoy]

PD12, thanks for the update. This is all messy. I'm no expert but I think you handled a first-time, tough situation well.

My grandpa used to say, "Women: you can't live with 'em, you can't shoot 'em." I laughed as a kid but as I grew up, I realized it was not funny and an indication of his twisted views about women that showed themselves in other ways.

I can understand why a comment like that, especially one targeted towards your wife, would be revisited in a heated moment. Like my grandpa, is it possible that it's an extension of his views, perhaps a show of how protective he is of his own wife?

Yes, imagination played a part and emotions were overwhelming. I think that's normal for people like us that are facing some really tough dynamics, setting boundaries in radical ways. Managing those will come with time. We are going to improve our ability to achieve Wisemind in the face of opposition.

Meanwhile, you took reasonable steps to protect yourself and your family in the face of a perceived threat, and you had the presence of mind to stop snowballing when it came to reporting it to HR. You are capable of effectively managing situations like this.

Find moments to enjoy your Friday off, PD!

pj

[Turkish]

Change your lock. You don't need to say anything.  It's your home. Even if your dad isn't really a risk, it might make you feel better.  They don't require access to your home.

[formflier]

I agree.  Perhaps even take this opportunity to upgrade security...not because of your Dad or that you think he will try to break in.

I've recently gone through our house and upgrade to nest smoke/carbon monoxide alarms, ring doorbell and upgraded locks.  Currently working on some other exterior security cameras as well.

No one thing "caused" this, but I certainly feel more at ease with these things in place and it's good to think through your security.

Since the nest smoke alarms connect with everyone via wireless, I'm putting my router (soon..hopefully find a good black friday deal) on a battery backup.  (anyone with experience with this...please reach out to me)

Best,

FF

[ProudDad12]

That's nothing to joke about. How did you respond?

Long story but short answer is not well. It was 9 years ago, before I was aware anything was amiss with my family. My mom was frustrated with my wife during her planning/coordination of my surprise 30th b-day party, and was venting about it. My dad was playing with his newest pistol and said "I have something for her right here" and mock aimed it. My cousin was there and later told my wife, who was shaken and upset over it. When she broke down and told me, my naive self tried to tell her that's just how he is; but seeing her reaction to it got me very upset with them.

All that to say this... when I finally confronted them about it, the response wasn't to apologize or acknowledge the joke was in poor taste. It was to blame my "evil" cousin for telling my wife, immediately draw lines in the sand, pull us onto their side, and unleash havoc on my cousin and her side of the family. That actually initiated the 9 year rift between them and my FOO, and why they blame my wife for it (ignoring the palpable tensions between them beforehand). We got caught in the middle of it. And the closest they came to acknowledging it was to say that's just how he jokes.

PD12, thanks for the update. This is all messy. I'm no expert but I think you handled a first-time, tough situation well.

I appreciate it. I'm certainly thinking hard at every step!

My grandpa used to say, "Women: you can't live with 'em, you can't shoot 'em." I laughed as a kid but as I grew up, I realized it was not funny and an indication of his twisted views about women that showed themselves in other ways.

I can understand why a comment like that, especially one targeted towards your wife, would be revisited in a heated moment. Like my grandpa, is it possible that it's an extension of his views, perhaps a show of how protective he is of his own wife?

It's possible. He is extremely protective. I think there's an aspect to his personality that facilitates such joking, but I'm struggling to think of a way to correctly articulate. And I think if I try I will paint a worse picture than I intend. Best I can come up with is if my dad ever has to successfuly defend anyone in his family from violent/murderous intent, he will in a way be living out a fantasy.

He's also old school and still fighting the Civil War in his head... I've always wondered how that affects his feelings toward my NJ native wife, both in the beginning and now.
 

Find moments to enjoy your Friday off, PD!

Thanks!

Change your lock. You don't need to say anything.  It's your home. Even if your dad isn't really a risk, it might make you feel better.  They don't require access to your home.

Did that today actually! Been meaning to finish replacing the exterior doorknobs anyway, and the knobs and locks in our house are the kind you can re-key yourself. Very convenient.

I agree.  Perhaps even take this opportunity to upgrade security...not because of your Dad or that you think he will try to break in.

I've recently gone through our house and upgrade to nest smoke/carbon monoxide alarms, ring doorbell and upgraded locks.  Currently working on some other exterior security cameras as well.

Good point, and something I've been considering anyway since our system is due for it. I want a camera facing the driveway so we're not limited to the front door, and I want to get smoke, CO, and flood sensors connected to our Vivint system.

Thanks again everyone for the help, encouragement, and suggestions. Yesterday was thankfully quiet, so we're just going about our weekend while exercising a little caution.

[TelHill]

Hello PD,

I've wanted to answer since I gave some input a while ago. I want to apologize as I forget regional differences in the US. I'm in a very liberal area with strong gun control. No one goes hunting and have only seen my city police carrying pistols. Big Five and other sporting goods stores are not allowed to sell firearms.

Am glad you rekeyed your locks and beefed up your security system. What you mention is very scary to any woman anywhere in the world. I mention in another thread that I'm giving up my share of a family home is a corrupt E. Euro. country. It's for the same reason.

I hope that all has quieted down, and you and your family feel safer and more at ease. Hope you had a great Thxgiving!

[pursuingJoy]

PD12 I've lived in the north and the south and the Civil War phenomenon in southern states is very real, as is the fantasy of defending family by any means necessary. Wish we could spend the same energy on emotional wellness and awareness. 

[ProudDad12]

I've wanted to answer since I gave some input a while ago. I want to apologize as I forget regional differences in the US. I'm in a very liberal area with strong gun control. No one goes hunting and have only seen my city police carrying pistols. Big Five and other sporting goods stores are not allowed to sell firearms.

Yeah it's a different world down here in that regards! Not Wild West by any means, but guns are definitely more prevalent. Though his joking was out of line even by standards down here. Either way, my wife is from NJ, a lot closer to what you're used to, so the joking was even worse for her.

I hope that all has quieted down, and you and your family feel safer and more at ease. Hope you had a great Thxgiving!

Thanks! He may still surprise us by showing up looking for an argument, but the more time we put between his calls, the more at ease we are. We actually went to my dad's sister's house for Thanksgiving. My parents had been disinvited, but all his siblings were there. It was really strange, but at the same time it was the first Thanksgiving in years that everyone didn't feel anxious with underlying tensions. We also learned more history about things that have been said and done in the past. But all in all it was a good Thanksgiving! My sister threw it off in the morning with a long email to me trying to get me to respond, but once we shook that off and headed to my aunt's, it was a good day.

PD12 I've lived in the north and the south and the Civil War phenomenon in southern states is very real, as is the fantasy of defending family by any means necessary. Wish we could spend the same energy on emotional wellness and awareness. 

It really is. Being raised in it, I could spend many words diving into it with observations and theories. Not to criticize, because most down here are well meaning. But yes, I think some awareness or empathy would go a long way.

[GaGrl]

Gagrl spent 40 years in Atlanta and I'm now retired on the Gulf Coast of Alabama. I can tell you ALL about it.  Wow. It's not easy being a liberal Democrat, Unitarian Universalist in an area that you dearly love, are tied to the history and geography and environment and wildlife.

Stand strong. There is a different world.

[TelHill]

I get it kind of. The city where I moved to right after college was just south of the Mason-Dixon line: Washington, DC. It's not the deep South, but you get a flavor of it. I remember seeing that flag many on many people's bumper stickers. I assume they lived in MD or VA.  A work buddy from the Fl. panhandle - we lost touch - told me his grandmother was incensed when she saw the prominent statue of General Sherman on the Mall. It did take some getting used to visiting this work buddy and his roommates at their apartment on the Dixie Highway(!) in No. Virginia.  All the stuff we were told was wrong in school was there in one name.

Living in liberal California was/is not easy either. We had so many people on illicit drugs, burned out hippies, and crazy crime sprees during my childhood. My mom was wanting to keep me around the house; hearing this on the news only firmed up her resolved to keep me isolated and at home.  If you want a flavor of what it was like, read The Electric Acid Kool Aid Test by Tom Wolfe. I read it a few years ago and he was right on the money.  Holy cow!

The world has always been in turmoil, unfortunately. It's hard to navigate it and being tangled up with a bpd family member makes it more difficult for them and for us. Again, am very grateful for this forum. We all learn from each other wherever we are from or live!

[formflier]

The county I grew up in was in rural western NC.  The county was roughly split in the civil war about who they supported.  Sadly, this led to some atrocities that resulted in a number of deaths.   The "politics" of the county to this day is built around the dividing line of which side you were on  (assuming multi-generational)

People that do not have family roots to trace back that far (like me, I'm first generation) are aware of all this but aren't really "part" of it. 


Best,

FF