Ex BPD making continued false allegations

[Grady]

This thread was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340432.0

Thanks LnL.  You made some really good points about the baiting.  As far as the two party consent, yes, we aren't allowed to record without the other party's permission.  So far, at drop off and pick ups, H has refused to look at her or talk with her.  I will suggest he records it to prove for himself.  

BPD did file that H violated his order of protection.  We just found out.  She is claiming he posted pics on google photos and invited her to join (they used to save pics of SS in an account together in google photos).  H absolutely didn't do that.  H never changed any of his passwords so we believe she signed in under his name and did it to try to trap him.  H spoke to his L who doesn't think anything will ever come out of it.  But, we all know this harassment and false accusations aren't going to stop.  Do the courts ever do anything about the BPD's continuing to file false claims and harassment?  We can't continue to spend money we don't have for L's to defend all this crap.  H is scared to even sign into his google photos now and change the password or do anything for fear she will make it look like he did something else or was trying to hide something.  I believe BPD has no case or money to fight for SS so she is trying to beat H down as her only option.  

What have you guys done to combat this nonstop beat down?
    

[kells76]

As far as the two party consent, yes, we aren't allowed to record without the other party's permission.  So far, at drop off and pick ups, H has refused to look at her or talk with her.  I will suggest he records it to prove for himself.

You've probably already read David's suggestion that comes up here -- can he point a dashcam at himself? I.e., if he's only recording himself, then he doesn't need her consent.

She is claiming he posted pics on google photos

I'm no techie at all, but I'd suspect you could link an IP address to specific activity? Maybe someone who actually knows something about computers (not me!) could chime in.

[ForeverDad]

In time — sadly, possibly not soon — her failed (and unsubstantiated) allegations will make her future claims less credible.  Some allegations will still need to be investigated, particularly regarding the children, but more and more cases will be read, evaluated and dismissed without asking for your response.  Here are a couple of my experiences.

I had been separated for about 6 months, I had filed for divorce, and I got a call from CPS.  The lady stated she was notifying me that they had received an allegation, investigated it and closed it.  I asked what it was about and she repeated it had been closed.  They never told me any details.

The two year separation/divorce had been final for about a year with Shared Parenting and equal time but ex was still too entitled and manipulating the order to reinterpret it to create loopholes.  I filed for custody and majority time using the Change of Circumstances process.  At one point in the hearing while my ex was giving testimony the magistrate actually cradled his head on his arms on the desk.  I think it was where she was trying to explain why she tried to void my vacation notice for the week between Christmas and New Year's Day.  She claimed she wanted to observe Kwanzaa and when my lawyer asked what it was she said it had candles and she wanted to observe Kwanzaa even though she wasn't of Jewish descent.  Her lawyer was speechless, realizing she she didn't even realize it instead involved African descent, until the third time my lawyer asked her for more details about that Jewish holiday at which point it was objected as already answered.  My lawyer had the biggest grin.

The decision stated that I had sufficient basis to proceed.  One paragraph noted that her testimony was "not credible".  Another paragraph briefly mentioned she had made an allegation that I'd tried to strangle her years before when we were married, however no one had queried me about it and it was evidently included for thoroughness but otherwise ignored.

Hopefully at some point the allegations will have less and less traction as she builds a history of being less than or not credible (courtspeak for liar).

[Grady]

Kells - Yes, I told H about the recording.  I don't know if he will do it, but he definitely should.  It's a bit frustrating because he seems to have a hard time with the CYA actions.  I know he's made huge strides recently, but he needs to understand he can't trust a thing when it comes to her. Sigh...

So our thinking now is that when she did whatever she did to her phone last week (and it "accidentally" texted H), it caused things from the past to show up so she thinks he sent them last week (she's claiming it occurred on the same day as the texts she sent) when he sent them well before any order of protection.  His L is going to speak with the police today.

Forever - Thanks for sharing your examples of the crazy.  I read them to H as well.  We both LOL when we read the thing about Kwanza being a Jewish holiday.  That is definitely less than credible.  It's so frustrating that we have to deal with this and spend so much money and time fighting the insanity.  You do give me hope that staying above board and not stooping to their level will eventually mean success.  It just feels so hopeless when you are in the middle of the battle and insanity.

[kells76]

I told H about the recording.  I don't know if he will do it, but he definitely should.  It's a bit frustrating because he seems to have a hard time with the CYA actions.  I know he's made huge strides recently, but he needs to understand he can't trust a thing when it comes to her.

As stepparents, I think it can be tricky for our marriage health when we see something that seems like a reasonable action to take with regards to the kids, but our spouse isn't doing the action. Then the question becomes: Is it "better" for the thing to get done, regardless of by whom? Or is it "better" that our spouses take responsibility for doing the action, regardless of whether it gets done or not?

It's hard to figure out sometimes. Sometimes it IS better for us not to overcompensate. I know I sometimes overreach as a way to manage my anxieties instead of because it's best for the kids. X didn't get done with regards to the kids; well, then, it didn't get done because DH didn't do it, and now I am working with my deep discomfort as I face reality.

Then again, if not doing X doesn't just make me emotionally uncomfortable, but may have legal or otherwise larger ramifications for me somehow, then it may be time to move to a posture of "Get it done by acting and informing versus asking/reminding and waiting".

No easy answer on the "set up dashcam" question, but we're here if it's something you want to keep talking through.

...

As for xW's phone shenanigans, if it were me, I'd be just as bugged/eyerolling/SMH as you guys. I probably wouldn't give it any validity by any type of denial/engagement. If she REALLY wants to bring that up in a legal setting, I'd MAYBE respond with one line of "These absurd allegations are untrue." Then it's on her to come up with any proof besides "I just FEEL like DH did it". Make her do any legwork -- don't do it for her by denying, explaining, etc.

...

If you want more crazy to LOL about, let me see if I can dig this up...

aaahhh,  yup, here it is:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=323832.msg12963118#msg12963118

[Grady]

Wow, Kells, what a story.  I can't believe she did that or that you had to live through it.  They definitely are crazy.  I wonder if it makes it better or worse that she is remarried and has someone else to put her crap on so it's not all on your H.  But, since stepdad sounds pretty awful himself, it may just be them feeding off of each other.

You are right.  It's a fine line about when I step in and when I let H just do what he should and watch him make mistakes.  SS has been parented so differently than we parented our D's.  I have to cringe sometimes and understand that in time, I can parent SS more in the manner I think he needs desperately (structure, boundaries, schedules, etc.).  For example, SS does what he wants when he wants and has zero routine.  Over the weekend, I had D11 bring out a bunch of books she had so we could start reading them to SS.  We always read to the girls when tucking them in at night.  SS was so excited.  No one ever reads to him.  He couldn't get enough of it.  Step one.  H was giving SS a bath and he had to call me in because SS didn't want to actually get washed.  He just wanted to play and H was having a hard time getting him to listen.  So, in comes stepmom who quickly gets SS washed and dressed.  I think H feels he has wronged SS so much by everything he's had to live through that he can't put his foot down and just parent. 

SS is constantly worried about getting screamed at/in trouble.  He was playing with slime over the weekend and got it all over the floor and his clothes.  H said he got hysterical because he was so worried I would yell at him and be so mad at him that H actually started to think I would as well.  By the time I got home, most of it was cleaned up.  I never said a word.  They are both so programmed by BPD and her reactions that they live in this constant fear. 

Sorry, I digress.  But just shows the role of a stepparent is not easy.  You are right about when to step in and when to step aside.  I need H to step up and act like a grown up and parent more.  He's trying, but I feel like he forgot everything he knew before he met BPD.  And I don't want to be his mom.  I want to be his wife. 

[worriedStepmom]

 They are both so programmed by BPD and her reactions that they live in this constant fear. 

My SD was 4 when I joined the family.  She went from 0 to hysterical crying over just about everything, and if I scolded her it might take hours to calm her down.  No one had ever talked to her about HOW to handle the big scary feelings.  I spent a lot of time working with her on how to identify when she was getting close to that emotional line, and then what to do to calm herself down.  It took a few years of consistently giving her that message - and also consistently showing her that I wasn't going to overreact and be emotionally abusive if she made mistakes.

need H to step up and act like a grown up and parent more.  He's trying, but I feel like he forgot everything he knew before he met BPD.  And I don't want to be his mom.  I want to be his wife. 

Amen.
My H and I fight a lot more when his ex is acting up.  He doesn't react the way I think he should...and I know it is because he is emotionally flooded and he can't.  It still irritates the heck out of me.  That's why I went back to therapy.

[GaGrl]

My DH and I have more conflict when his Ex is acting out -- and they have been divorced for 15 years.

It's inevitably about her behaviors and manipulations of the children and (now) grandchildren.

[livednlearned]

What have you guys done to combat this nonstop beat down?

You are at the height of a crisis that is playing out legally. It's tough to stay centered, although over time it's possible to see what requires attention and what doesn't. Some will depend on how well the courts can identify histrionic behavior on her part. Unfortunately, it can take time and continual activity for the courts to see the pattern clearly.

Are you and H able to have time together as a couple where you focus only on you, together?

[Grady]

Worried/GaGrl - It is good to know I'm not alone with all the struggles.  Yes, the fights do center around his emotions being on high alert with BPD and everything that has transpired.  I wouldn't say we even fight much.  I feel I just know when to leave him alone because I know he's on edge.  As for SS, I guess it will take time for him to learn to not be afraid and that will be from a lot of reinforcement as well as just being with us more (which will hopefully happen soon).

Lnl - Yes, we are in the middle and I try to read what others have said who have made it through the storm.  I know we will get there at some point.  As far as focusing on us and our relationship, nope, none of that.  I wish, but H is consumed all day with his thoughts about what is going on and trying to work on this start up business.  I can't even tell you the last time we went out together or did anything.  H has zero money and is so much debt because of everything he did for BPD so that doesn't help the situation either.  It's frustrating because I would want to focus on us, but it seems like we have to get through this first.   

[Grady]

Does anyone have experience with having to deal with the criminal side of the law when it comes to BPD?  Apparently, BPD is pushing through with the domestic violence criminal case against H in our county.  H got a call from a detective yesterday who wants him to come in for questioning.  H was supposed to go today but then he spoke with his L who freaked out and said he absolutely couldn't go without a L (she only does civil).  He cancelled the appointment.  She is connecting H with a lawyer she knows.  His L says the detective must believe the lies BPD told and she wants to trip H up when he comes in for an interview so she can use it against him.  L said that he is guilty until proven innocent unfortunately. 

I am trying to stay calm, but I am freaking out.  When will this stop?  We absolutely don't have the money to pay for another lawyer, but what choice do we have?  I am beginning to think she will continue to do this stuff for the rest of our lives.  H is so upset and now he says he feels a huge depression coming on.  Which I get and understand, but he needs to focus on so much to get his life back together and earn money.  And he has no support from his family.  H's parents and brothers don't understand why he won't just walk away from SS and be done with all of this.  They don't consider SS part of the family.  It's so sad.  Ugh...I fear this is only the beginning of all the crazy and it's already consuming us so much. 

[worriedStepmom]

Given that she is in a shelter for abused women, it's not surprising that she's following through with this.  The messages she is receiving in the shelter - the ones designed for actual abuse victims - are validating her feelings that she has been wronged.  It's her feelings that matter, not the truth.

In the last year, my H's ex has rewritten history to accuse him of being abusive during their marriage.  The marriage ended 10 years ago, so it's too late for her to go to the police and get him in trouble.  The rewriting of history coincided with his push to get more custody of SD, which required him to finally say out loud that ex was a bad parent.  It's a similar situation to what you are going through. 

Your H's ex doesn't want to lose SS.  She feels victimized by H because he won't do what she wants, so she truly believes he is abusive (otherwise, her feelings don't make sense). 

I wish you both the best of luck in dealing with this.

[Grady]

Wow Worried, that makes so much sense! I think you hit the nail on the head.  That sounds just like her.  She truly believes her own lies.  She does rewrite history constantly. 

After 10 years and your H's ex is still doing this...that doesn't give me a lot of hope.  The ex's seem quite similar in reading all your stories. 

Apparently, BPD filed another order of protection violation for last Wednesday.  We have no idea what she's claiming this time.  H wants to file a harassment claim against her for all these false accusations.  I don't know if he can or if it would do anything.  She's quite believable with her lies.  But she believes her own lies as she does rewrite history.  From what I gather, she is a chameleon who changes her personality to adapt to any situation.  I think that's why she "makes friends" everywhere she goes (even though none last).

[Panda39]

Hi Grady,

I've been following along.  Feelings often equal facts for folks with BPD and that is why they can initially come across as believable.  They feel it, it becomes fact in their mind, and because they believe it to be true, they can be good at convincing others that it is true also...at least in the short term. 

My partner's ex was able to do this early on in the divorce process, but then the cracks begin to show...inability to get a job/lying about employment, lying about money, 3 evictions/lying about her housing situation, pulled their older daughter out of school to home school her (that would be a 0.0 GPA her first year of High School), attendance issues with younger daughter etc...

Based on my experience as tough as things are now, if you give it time the wheels will fall off. 

Your husband may want to document/journal where he is since she is making noises about breaking protection orders...  He was harassing you on Tuesday at 3p?  Really? I have a receipt that shows he was at the grocery store...Really, he was in a meeting at work with 5 other people...Really, he was at our daughters volleyball game...  Keep things like receipts, and movie tickets that show a date and time.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[livednlearned]

She seems particularly fragile and desperate. This is driving her to make decisions in the moment, impulsively. And the protective order is probably a serious challenge for her. She's inventing ways that he's violating the order because 1) she needs to feel that he is trying to reach her; and 2) the drama she creates gets him to respond to her. Without his presence she may well feel like nothing, which terrifies her.

I'm not a lawyer and don't know if this is even possible, but I wonder if suggesting a psychiatric evaluation would reset things a bit. Not responding to her specific allegations, instead taking a different approach altogether.

Right now she has created a narrative that you and your H have to fully upend.

The family law attorney is the person to ask ...

[Grady]

What you all are saying makes so much sense.  I think you are all spot on.  So, we found out the send "violation" to the order is basically the same thing.  This time she went to the courthouse instead of the police and claimed he put more pics on google photos again last Wednesday (when we had SS).  And that this is all to harass her about the visitation.  It makes no sense and doesn't look like she submitted any evidence with it (hence why she went to the courthouse and not the police).  H's L is going to see what we can do to stop all these lies and fictitious claims.  It just feels like it's never ending.  And she is winning in that she is getting to H a lot.  He is so depressed and feels like this is all killing him.  He barely works (and needs to be working his butt off because he needs to get this business up and running and is bleeding money). 

H told me he is leaning towards going to speak with the detective without the L his L recommended.  He says he doesn't want to wait another week to even meet with that L (who is in another city so driving there and back plus meeting with him would take up at least half a day and we can't afford it) and just get it over with the detective.  H said if somehow they decide to pursue this after he and his friend make their statements, he can get the L then.  I don't know how I feel about this.  On the one hand, BPD has absolutely no proof of the abuse and H has a witness to say it didn't happen.  Also, we don't have the money and don't want this to drag out even more.  But, on the other hand, do we want to risk him being falsely arrested?  The L's say the system is flawed and you are presumed guilty until proven innocent even though it's not supposed to work like that.

How did you all handle getting through this?  It's so stressful and hard to focus on anything else but this.  I hate that BPD has that much power to make us all miserable.  I want to take our power back but don't know how right now because we are just constantly fighting off false allegations.   

[livednlearned]

Can he not find a pro bono lawyer or public defender closer to where you live?

Your H doesn't seem to be in the kind of head space you need to be in to handle this without a lawyer 

[ForeverDad]

The reason a qualified and experienced lawyer needs to be there  — note that even his own lawyer felt inadequate for handling potentially criminal issues! — is to protect him from making clueless comments that could expose him to more risks.  And yes, he could "explain" himself into some scary corners making it even harder and more expensive for his legal expert to dig him out.

There's nothing to stop a detective from asking inappropriate questions, especially if the detective is looking for basis to find fault.  With a lawyer there, he would be stopped from falling into seemingly innocuous traps.  Also, lawyers typically advise, "If you can answer just Yes or No, then don't add to it, what you 'explain' could get you into deeper trouble.  And a warning, You do not have to incriminate yourself, you cannot be forced to testify against yourself."

Things move slowly in the court world.  There time is measured in months, not days.  He should wait, give the proper lawyer time to be available and guide him through the legal maze.  Meanwhile, he should keep himself busy with work — focused on what he can do rather than what he can't do — and caring for the rest of his family.

[CoherentMoose]

I'll say again, keep your eye on the prize.  It will take time, often too much time.  It's also unfair unfortunately.  Both you and your husband need to ensure you are "putting your mask on first" and taking care of yourselves.  Your child is depending on you to get through this for his benefit.  Eat well, exercise, and "try" to get good sleep.  For me, sleep is critical when stressed.  And continue to document, document, document.   jdc

[Grady]

I forwarded on the views from you all about the L, but H told me he's made up his mind and his gut is telling him to do this.  I am a bit nervous, but last time he trusted his gut with the courts, he won and his L (he replaced her) was wrong.  So, he has an appointment on Thursday to speak with the detective.  I am sure I will be a basket case, but ultimately, he needs to make the decision.  All I can do is offer advice. 

jdc - so true.  It's high to eye the prize when you are in the weeds.  But taking care of ourselves is critical.  The diet is definitely suffering as both of us are stress eaters.  And H is really struggling with the sleep.  I do better, but it's still not great.  I do exercise.  And today, they are giving 15 minute chair massages at work.  So score for me.    And we both go to therapy every week which I think helps and is so necessary.  Hopefully, with Thanksgiving coming up soon (we are in the US), we will have a nice distraction of being with family.

[worriedStepmom]

It seems like it would be pretty obvious if pictures were added, and, if so, where the pics were taken.

H needs to immediately change the password to that account.  Actually, to ALL accounts.

[Grady]

His L told me not to change the password or touch anything right now.  She wants to get some IT expert to look first.  I think that's stupid, but what do I know?

H hasn't taken any new pics of SS so these would have to be old ones that were added.  It's all so ridiculous. 

[Grady]

Phew...H finally decided it was a bad idea for him to speak with the detective without an L with him. 

[worriedStepmom]

I'm glad he changed his mind!

Even if the L doesn't want him logging in to this account, can he make sure he's changed ALL his other passwords for every other kind of account he might have? She might move on to something else.

[Grady]

I will talk to him about that.  I agree it's necessary to change everything he can.

[GaGrl]

OK, I see what the L wants to do. An IT guru can probably connect each access to the site to a specific device.

[Grady]

Exactly so L doesn't want him to touch anything in fear it will impact us proving she's lying.

[dt9000]

I have been through some of this and it is indeed a scary process. The agencies (police, CYS, etc) are just doing their job and may or may not believe anything the BPD is saying. It's their job to keep an open mind and investigate.

In time — sadly, possibly not soon — her failed (and unsubstantiated) allegations will make her future claims less credible.  Some allegations will still need to be investigated, particularly regarding the children, but more and more cases will be read, evaluated and dismissed without asking for your response. 

Hopefully at some point the allegations will have less and less traction as she builds a history of being less than or not credible (courtspeak for liar).

This has been my experience. My BPDex made allegations of abuse and slowly, over time each allegation has been investigated and dismissed. She continues to make new and different allegations but they are being taken much less seriously by those involved.

[I Am Redeemed]

This thread has reached the posting limit and is now locked. The discussion continues here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341210.0