The ultimate gaslighting

[stellaris]

Been a loong time since I've posted anything, but just had a late epiphany I wanted to share.

I am essentially NC with my BPD mother for nearly twenty-five years, with brief and unsuccessful attempts at reconciliation - all driven by me.

The other day I wrote her a short letter in which I told her that what was lacking was not love, but listening, and I sent her a link to an article on voicelessness.com (which, by the way, I highly recommend)  This was the website that clicked the lightbulb for me on her BPD, some fifteen years ago now.  Voicelessness.com highlights the importance of giving children voice - entering their world, rather than forcing the child to enter yours.  Needless to say, those of us who grew up with BPD parents didn't get much of that.  I certainly didn't

Anyway, she wrote back and said that I had voice, what I lacked were facts.  She had not been abusive, I had just manufactured, false memories.  This is not the first time she has used this line of reasoning, and what's interesting is she will dredge up some incident from the past (she actually has a very good memory) and use it to prove that my memories are wrong.  The interesting thing is - she usually comes up with something that she clearly feels guilty about, but which is NOT one of my primary issues.  Thus she both confirms my version of reality and underscores her problem with it.  I also know through my sister that she has had moments of deep regret and does in fact know the damage she has done.  So there's that.

Nevertheless she can't seem to come out and acknowledge this to me, which is really what I need to have any relationship whatsoever.  She is incredibly good at derailing the conversation into some kind of argument that allows her to avoid responsibility.  And what just occurred to me that the absolute ultimate gaslighting it is to tell someone their memories are false.  Not just different, but outright false.  Buying into that means literal madness.  I recognize that memory is basically a junkpile, with the lower-down stuff progressively more rusted, broken, and jumbled up.  Nevertheless, I share with her a very good memory, and because my reality was so fundamentally tested at an early age, I am also kind of obsessive about cross-checking it.  There is no doubt in my mind of her abuse, no doubt at all of the specific, over-the-top, raging meltdowns that comprise the specific incidents I found so damaging.  After all these decades I understand that timelines and places and incidents can get scrambled, but there are enough fragments there. I don't remember the exact day she stripped my room to the floorboards in a screaming rage, what she was wearing, the season, or even what triggered the storm.  I do remember the screaming rage because - yep - that was an emotionally intense event, and things like that get set down in neural concrete.

With some insight, I see she is really still a small frightened child inside, that she wanted more than anything to be a mother, and she is deeply devastated by her failure at that most important task.  I'm more sorry for her than anything at this point.

[Harri]

Hi Stellaris and welcome back! 

There is no doubt in my mind of her abuse, no doubt at all of the specific, over-the-top, raging meltdowns that comprise the specific incidents I found so damaging.  After all these decades I understand that timelines and places and incidents can get scrambled, but there are enough fragments there. I don't remember the exact day she stripped my room to the floorboards in a screaming rage, what she was wearing, the season, or even what triggered the storm.  I do remember the screaming rage because - yep - that was an emotionally intense event, and things like that get set down in neural concrete.

This really speaks to me.  I had given up long ago trying to get my mother to hear me and see even some of the things she did.  I found though that I still had hope that she would, a longing for it if you will be able to own the past and apologize.  Logically I knew it was not going to happen, but hope is powerful.

You *know* the truth.  You do not doubt your experiences or memories regardless of her inability/refusal to see and acknowledge her own actions.  That seems like a big victory for me.  How do you see it? 

With some insight, I see she is really still a small frightened child inside, that she wanted more than anything to be a mother, and she is deeply devastated by her failure at that most important task.  I'm more sorry for her than anything at this point.

This is huge and is an even a bigger victory seeing her as she is; a small frightened child inside who is afraid of her own failure as a mother.

Bittersweet?

[stellaris]

My victory is my lovely wife and my awesome sons.  We've got fourteen years together now, without a single fight.  This isn't some repressed Stepford Wife kind of thing - it's just good teamwork.  We've handled a lot of high-stress stuff, including in a 2 year period considerable separation (job related) the birth of son #2, two major moves (one transocean), a house purchase, and a career change.   We have the most harmonious relationship I've ever seen, still delight in each other's company.  I've never lost my temper with either son, a firm voice is all it's taken to guidance-correct the usual (and mostly delightful) explorations of their youth. Needless to say, the odds were against me attaining this outcome, but I've worked hard, and this is what success looks like.

The downside remains a tendancy to depression and self-destruction that just will not go away.  I think some acknowledgement from my mother of her role would help a bit with that, but maybe not.  In my latest correspondence with her, I've structured it so she just can't "win".  I've explained that the problem is that I need her to listen.  She either listens and hears my reality, or doesn't listen and by default confirms my reality.

Kinda sad to have to frame interactions with my mother in win/lose terms, but that's where we are.  It's also sad to have realized she's this broken child inside and I'm sure feels horribly abandoned by me.  However, I have to look after my family first, which means looking after my mental health.  A basic shared understanding of reality is necessary for that, which means being told I've got false memories is a hard stop.

Memory is kind of like archaeology  - there are missing pieces and mixed up fragments, but if you put it all in context you can understand what was happening.

[Kwamina]

Hi stellaris

Been a while indeed, welcome back.

Thanks for this update and sharing your insights. It is great to hear about your own family you've created and the solid relationships you have with your wife and sons  

The downside remains a tendancy to depression and self-destruction that just will not go away.

Yeah, being raised by a BPD parent can have long lasting effects on children. In what ways does your tendency to self-destruct manifest itself and how do you cope with it and steer it towards a more positive direction?

I think it is good and most certainly a sign of growth that you are able to see your mother for what and who she 'really' is now. At the same time, it is indeed also very important to have strong boundaries to protect yourself and the family you have now.

Wonderful that you've found your voice Jiminy Cricket

The Board Parrot

[zachira]

Even though you have made a happy life for yourself and have been mostly NC with your mother for 25 years, there is a longing to have her recognize how she abused you has affected you and to get some kind of apology. I see this as normal for all of us who were abused by a mother with BPD as this type of response would mean so much. I had some insight into this several years ago, when I experienced a catharsis with my mother with BPD. When I was a small child mom shamed me mercelessly for wanting to interact with people of color. For most of my life, I would suddenly feel terribly ashamed in the presence of a person of color for no reason. One day mom told me how wrong she was to have discriminated against the Black child of a family friend. I suddenly felt my whole body go limp. After that, I never felt ashamed again when in the presence of a person of color, and indeed now have many friends from all different races. I never did get any kind of apology or recognition from my mother with BPD before she died for the life long abuse I experienced from her. You will not likely ever get a full sincere apology from your mother for all the abuse, yet hopefully you will get some tidbits that will be healing.

[TelHill]

Anyway, she wrote back and said that I had voice, what I lacked were facts.  She had not been abusive, I had just manufactured, false memories.  This is not the first time she has used this line of reasoning, and what's interesting is she will dredge up some incident from the past (she actually has a very good memory) and use it to prove that my memories are wrong.  The interesting thing is - she usually comes up with something that she clearly feels guilty about, but which is NOT one of my primary issues.  Thus she both confirms my version of reality and underscores her problem with it.  I also know through my sister that she has had moments of deep regret and does in fact know the damage she has done.  So there's that.

Nevertheless she can't seem to come out and acknowledge this to me, which is really what I need to have any relationship whatsoever.  She is incredibly good at derailing the conversation into some kind of argument that allows her to avoid responsibility.  And what just occurred to me that the absolute ultimate gaslighting it is to tell someone their memories are false.  Not just different, but outright false.  Buying into that means literal madness.  I recognize that memory is basically a junkpile, with the lower-down stuff progressively more rusted, broken, and jumbled up.  Nevertheless, I share with her a very good memory, and because my reality was so fundamentally tested at an early age, I am also kind of obsessive about cross-checking it. 

Hi, I’m a newer poster, but not new to having a bpd mom. I and mom have very good memories(I also fact-check & cross-check. Thx for pointing out the probable origin of it). She denies saying & doing what she did. She admitted she didn’t appreciate how cute I was & enjoyed that fact. That will be as good as it gets for me.

With some insight, I see she is really still a small frightened child inside

Absolutely. Validation & SET come in handy. It’s not good for either of us to be not validated or screamed at. As everyone sees here, it can be like two victims being unkind to each other.

BTW, I felt comforted by the cartoon character Jiminy Cricket as as a kid. I used to watch repeats of the original Mickey Mouse Club when I was four.  (It was off the air when I went to school due to its being ancient history at that point am sure.)  I felt that I would grow up to be happy like the Mouseketeers. I think Jiminy Cricket closed the show with “When You Wish Upon A Star.”  

Am sure I sound like Sophia from the Golden Girls, so I’ll end here.

Hope it continues to go well for you!