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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Our wedding anniversary is next week - Part 6  (Read 962 times)
Stillhopeful4
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« on: November 20, 2019, 09:37:36 AM »

This thread was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341198.0

If the letter comes, what does it mean to you?
How will you respond to it?
What things will you have to do as and when you receive the news?
It doesn't really mean anything to me.  Just proof that she's done done.  But she's always said she needed "this divorce" because our marriage was so bad and that if we were to have anything in the future it needs to be brand new for her.

How will I respond to it.  I probably won't.  I will just forward to my attorney and let him handle it.  I'm glad I found out about her contacting an attorney last week.  I took the element of surprise away from her.  She's big on that.  Everything has been secrets and lies from day 1.

I think I'm prepared for the worst.  Dare I say, how much worse can it get?

I know I am stronger than she thinks.  I know I will get through this.  I just wish it were different.

SH4



 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 05:53:39 PM by I Am Redeemed, Reason: Split from OP for length » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 10:07:23 AM »

It's good to be honest with ourselves at times like this and if it is meaningful, which my guess is it is, it's okay to be honest about that. "I am saddened by receiving the divorce papers today, I'm sorry you feel this needs to end this way"... and leave it at that.

Use your strength wisely, sometimes a persons strength is shown in their restraint. How worse can it get might well be dependant on how much fuel you give it. The less fuel, the more probable it is that it doesn't get worse.

This isn't intended to offer you hope (hope of what I don't know) but you have insight into the cycle, you've heard from her ex how the cycle has operated in the past, the cycle gets more extreme each time. This is a new low in the cycle, stay agnostic as to whether or not it keeps going to new lows... who knows when she feels like she has gained the control she feels like she needs. Do not say things you may later regret.

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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 10:13:35 AM »

Do not say things you may later regret.

This is the problem.  I already have.  I shouldn't have said anything about the girl at the birthday party.  I shouldn't have reacted to her "friends" post and I sure the heck shouldn't have reacted the way I did to her Hallmark movie night with her new "friend" (same girl in the birthday party pic) Saturday.  That fueled this whole thing.  I'm definitely running out of gas.

I don't want to reply or say anything when I get the papers.  She will be waiting for that.  It's how she is.  She knows I have a T appointment tomorrow, so that's why my guess is I get them today or tomorrow morning.  She arraigned to see my daughter today specifically at 4:00 and she knows I get home around that time (she doesn't usually get home until after 5:00).  SO I'm thinking she arraigned this 4:00 thing, so my daughter and the babies aren't at the house when I get served.  We shall see.

SH4
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 10:29:39 AM »

Keep cool. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. We're all here for you either way.

Do you have anyone you can be with if it does?

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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 11:00:04 AM »

My boys will be home.  I'm really not too concerned about it as I am expecting it.  This girl has been talking about divorce for almost 9 years.  To her it means nothing, yet she needs it to be "free" of me.  She claims our marriage was just a piece of paper and the divorce is the same.  She claims our marriage ended every time (9 times now) that she left and took her ring off.  And all those "cheating" times, weren't really cheating because in her mind we weren't together and it was ok.  She only wants this divorce so I will leave her alone and realize it's over.  Sad way to look at things, but it's who she is.

SH4
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 12:47:16 AM »

Hey SH4,  I am so sorry you are going through these tough times! Don't be too hard on yourself, your nerve broke, these things happen. I think the way you can now look back and see where you went wrong shows that you are learning. Nothing can ever stop us from learning. And it is never too late to reduce the conflict.
Sending you positive energy as you go through the next few days. Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 06:26:03 AM »

Did things pan out as you expected they would?

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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 08:38:33 AM »

Hi there,

No, I did not get served with papers wed/thurs.  I did have a conversation with my attorney yesterday afternoon and W has not filed yet (I guess they have access to the system and he looked it up as of yesterday afternoon).  Remember, I only know that she contacted the attorney last friday.  I don't know if/when they met to go over everything.  However, my attorney and T think that I should file first.  I'm taking steps to get that done. 

My T appointment went VERY well yesterday.  He wasn't as upset with me as I was expecting about going to "her boss".  He said seeing "her boss" is a bereavement counselor he was shocked that when she learned the info she didn't look into it more and just forwarded to W.  He told me not to worry about the smear campaign that W has started against me.  He also mentioned if she's telling everyone I went to "her boss" to make me look crazy that it's going to come back to bite her because everyone knows that I have known this woman for 20+ years and the fact that W has a "strange" relationship with her boss (they go out to lunch and dinner all the time, W goes to Boss's sons football games...wife goes over boss's house to hang out...W hangs out with boss's daughters all the time...boss hosted a birthday party for W...(like on a saturday night out a place with 20+ people)...W goes mother of the bride dress shopping with boss)...almost like a parent/child...The fact is I did't go to "her boss"...I went to someone that's a friend of mine and is also a "very close friend" to her..and that person happens to be HER BOSS.  I asked him if there was something wrong with me, something I can work on.  I asked with all of this why do I still love her and want her back.  He told me that I really don't and that everything I am feeling is related to trauma bonding and there is nothing wrong with me other than I stayed in an abusive relationship too long and I gave her way too much and tried way too hard when I was receiving nothing in return.  He thinks I should go full N/C with W so she can't manipulate me anymore.

Daughter and the two babies left yesterday.  That was hard, but they will be back in two (ish) weeks. 

T says I need to not focus on moving on or forward...he says right now I need to focus on getting through this.  He said I am very strong and he's proud of how far I have come, although texting her boss wasn't my finest moment (but I already knew that).

Thoughts?

SH4

     
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2019, 09:03:09 AM »

Okay, so things didn't pan out how you expected with regards to the filing. Did you learn anything from that?

What do you think about your T's advice instruction?

What reason did the T and L give for suggesting you file first? Is there a practical of financial advantage in doing that?

Hope you're alright with your D heading home today, they're coming back in a while right?

You T made some very pertinent points about your friend, her reaction and your motivations for telling her. He also makes some very wise points about what could happen when the gossip channels start to settle and people start joining dots together.

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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2019, 09:47:31 AM »

Okay, so things didn't pan out how you expected with regards to the filing. Did you learn anything from that?
I know I shouldn't assume things and read into things.  I guess with my W I have learned to constantly prepare for the worst.


What do you think about your T's advice instruction?
  It seems his advice is in line with what everyone else has been telling me and that I need to protect myself and my kids.

What reason did the T and L give for suggesting you file first? Is there a practical of financial advantage in doing that?
It's two sided.  One he said that she's manipulated me long enough and that by me filing it shows I'm not going to be the subject of her abuse any longer and two yes there is a financial advantage as well.
Hope you're alright with your D heading home today, they're coming back in a while right?
Yes, I am totally fine with it.  They aren't "home" they are 1,700 miles away at where her husband is going to school, in the military, (it was a short 4 month assignment and he graduates in 10 days.  She took the babies out to spend Thanksgiving with him and be there for his graduation).  They are all driving back together in 2 weeks, before they get to search for a new house at his new orders an hour away from me. 

You T made some very pertinent points about your friend, her reaction and your motivations for telling her. He also makes some very wise points about what could happen when the gossip channels start to settle and people start joining dots together.
  He made some great points yesterday and confirmed a few things as well.  I was really nervous going in and telling him everything that's happened over the past two weeks, however when I left there I felt really GOOD! 

SH4
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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2019, 10:16:55 AM »

Excerpt
I know I shouldn't assume things and read into things.  I guess with my W I have learned to constantly prepare for the worst.

If you can stay neutral it will be better for your hair!

Excerpt
It seems his advice is in line with what everyone else has been telling me and that I need to protect myself and my kids.

People will tell you many things, but it's your life, your decision and the emotional costs are yours to wear.

Excerpt
It's two sided.  One he said that she's manipulated me long enough and that by me filing it shows I'm not going to be the subject of her abuse any longer and two yes there is a financial advantage as well.

Okay, what is the financial advantage? There are other ways to show that you would not tolerate abuse and manipulation without seeking a divorce. I'd just like to say that out loud as a viable option. A divorce application clearly ups the anti and fuels a fire. Again, I want to be balanced about your choices here and the consequences of those choices.

Excerpt
He made some great points yesterday and confirmed a few things as well.  I was really nervous going in and telling him everything that's happened over the past two weeks, however when I left there I felt really GOOD!

I'm glad he was able to put some perspective on things


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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2019, 12:10:46 PM »

My lawyer explained the financial benefits.  I can't really summarize it, but it made sense. 

The whole situation is very sad.  I wish it wasn't happening.  It doesn't matter who files, she doesn't want to be married to me anymore and doesn't even want to speak to me.  And based on some new info yesterday from my T, this can't be fixed.  She's really spiraled out of control and I need to preserve what's left of my dignity and move forward.  Hearing that what I have for her is not love was heart breaking.

SH4
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2019, 01:41:37 PM »

You seem to have taken what your T has said to you as gospel truth and not up for debate. Do you agree with his analysis ie that your love for your wife is just trauma bonding?

I’m challenging you because I think the decision warrants challenging.

I hope so much that you can find peace.

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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2019, 02:04:42 PM »

I'm not taking it as gospel.  I'm exploring it.  It explains a lot.  If it's trauma bonding or love... a love she can never return.  I've known this for a very long time about my W.  She will admit things.  She's never been "in love" with any of her partners except in the very beginning.  She claims she loves DOG1 more than she's ever loved a human because he can't hurt her.  If she had the choice to save him or me she would save him, she would save him over anyone on the planet.  There have always been things that have been way off in our relationship.  That being said whatever it is I will hold a special place in my heart for her forever.  But the things she is doing, they are in fact abusive.  I have to weigh that.  I was abused by my son's father for 13 years, much worse than this...I know I am a great person and I don't deserve to be treated this way.  I have given her so much of myself and yet, she's given me barely anything in return.  That's hard to face every day!

SH4
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2019, 08:43:46 AM »

Dear SH4, so pleased to hear you had a good session with your T! And that you are being proactive in getting the information you need.

Perfectly agree that the gossip will eventually die down and the truth will out. I would ignore social media and focus on digesting all this new information.

I agree with Enabler that it is important not to act on impulse. I perfectly understand your relief and desire to move on. There is something positive about being split black and ghosted, namely the peace and quiet and absence of drama. At the same time, your wife is a very sick person and needs treatment. At this point legally you are next of kin and if your T is right and she is about to meltdown you need to be very sure you don't want to be able to be the one making the medical decisions for her.   If you file for divorce, who becomes the next of kin?

Is there an urgent need for you to file in the next few days? Is it possible for you take some time to think about it? I only mention this because 10 years is a long time. I once broke up a 16 year relationship but I set myself three months to think about it. Because I needed to know that I was making a decision I could live with for the rest of my life. And I never regretted it. I perfectly understand about the advantages of being a first mover, but will these translate into peace of mind for you?

Nobody is telling you what to do. Only that it needs to be your decision. Not based on what you think your wife might do, not based on your lawyer or your T. Their advice is good, no doubt the best expertise available. But the only person who is an expert on your heart is you.

Wishing you luck and sending  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2019, 07:10:49 AM »

Good morning Khibomsis,

Her mom is still alive so she would be her next of kin and her daughter that she adopted.

There are valid reason to file first.  The divorce is going to happen unfortunately.  I still don't want a divorce, but I need to protect my assets and kids.  We have been emotionally separated since June (actually it's been much longer if I sit and think about it...and we haven't been intimate in YEARS) and she's been out of the house since August.  T has been telling me for a while that I need to "release" her for both of our sakes.  This is what she wants, this is what she has been asking for.  Again, not what I want, but I'm accepting the fact that she does not want ME, if she did we wouldn't be where we are now.  It's still very painful.

I've been doing some research on trauma bonding.  It's pretty scary and it sounds like I am going to have a long road ahead to get through this.  I really really hope I'm strong enough to make it.  Right now I'm not sure.  I've always been hopeful that even if we got a divorce we could reconcile.  W has talked in the past about her "boss" and how her and her husband filed for divorce and the day of the divorce went to lunch and reconciled and called off the divorce.  W thinks it's so cute and remember BOSS is her new favorite person that she wants to be like.  So I was holding out hope...but the stuff I have learned in the past few weeks about W and what she has done to me in the past 10 years and especially the lies she's spreading about me now...I'm not sure there is any hope left.  I'm very sad and not sure how I'm going to make it through the holidays.

SH4

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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2019, 09:33:42 AM »

If you decide to divorce there are boards here at  bpdfamily devoted to it. They are well placed to advise you on what to expect. We of course will be here to support you in your choices.

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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2019, 12:48:38 AM »

Good morning SH4! Listen we are here for you. It is a lot to discover all at once, divorce, trauma bonding and  all. You are going to be absolutely fine, look how you are handling kids, dogs, work and all the drama, you can do this!
The trauma bonding issue seems to have  been a huge shock to you. Do you want to talk more about how it makes you feel?
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2019, 06:26:13 AM »

Yes, I would like to talk more about it.  I'm not "ready" for a divorce, however I have been reading up a lot on trauma bonding and it's pretty scary to think all this time I have been bonded to her and it's not love?  Have I been lying to myself for the past 10 years.  What have I taught my children about "love".  How could I not know?  Does this mean she never loved me, I mean I always questions if a BPD is capable of real love, but now faced with the reality of this...it explains a lot.

I'm not ready to move to the divorce/detaching boards at this time.  I'm just devastated yet again.

SH4

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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2019, 06:55:11 AM »

I'm not sure it's fair or right to completely abandon your perception of love or question your ability 'to love'. In essence, what I can see is that you showed love, and she showed love when things were going her way or things felt good for her. When things felt bad for her she stopped showing love, and you gave more love in an attempt to take her guilt and shame away... you could see this as a biblical type of love. Now every time you stretch to show more love to someone who is not showing you love, you feel more and more emotionally invested in a situation thus making it more likely you will invest even more the next time she pulls love because for some random reason she stops wanting to show love... this cycle grows and grows and grows until you're willing to give your life for someone who's actually treating you like  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) quite a lot of the time.

The key is to let go, step back and decide what is a reasonable amount of love (which you are capable of... you love your kids right... and your dogs?) to offer to someone rain or shine.

You've been in previous relationships, what did they look like? Lets not chuck the baby out with the bath water here.

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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2019, 08:07:59 AM »

Yes I love my kids and dogs and I love her the same way, or I thought I did.  I never wanted anything in return from her.  But learning that she most likely used me and then just discarded me when she was done is very painful to accept.

My previous relationship with my boys' dad was 13 years, he was NPD...BAD.  It was a horrible relationship...13 years...2 kids he never told me that he loved me and only kissed me one time in 13 years.  Before that we have my first husband, my D23 father.  He was the nicest guy, very sweet, would do anything for me, we were friends, had a lot of fun together but we were missing one thing...sex.  He hated it...we literally only had sex one time while we were married and that was when I got pregnant with my daughter..  I was 26 and didn't want to live the rest of my life without it so I left him.  I asked my T what's wrong with me and these relationships.  He looked at me and said SH4 I PROMISE you there is nothing wrong with you.

I just don't know what to do...I'm going to take the extra long weekend and think...a lot and try and decide what path I should take.

SH4
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2019, 10:06:04 AM »

Was it those experiences that led you to like girls instead of boys? I promise you, we're not all like that.

I would think about your ability to love others more and ponder whether or not you really are a complete basket case. You have ended 2 long term relationships which although maybe you stayed too long... you left and said enough was enough. You clearly have a tendency to rough it out. I guess the question is why?

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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2019, 10:17:43 AM »

Was it those experiences that led you to like girls instead of boys? I promise you, we're not all like that.
  So funny thing about this.  I don't like "girls".  I fell in love with her.  I never had been attracted to girls prior to her and I have not been since.  She uses this against me and tells me "you just want to be with guys", which isn't true, I just wanted to be with her.  Apparently I'm pansexual which is where you fall in love with the person and not the gender.  But after all the research about BPD etc etc I think I fell in love with the thought of her.  So also, funny story, 10 years ago when I told her I had feelings for her..her reply was shocked and then she told me I was the 3rd straight girl to tell her they had feelings for her THAT WEEK.  I think it's the way she puts herself out there with the poor me stories and us empathetic people try and rescue her.

I would think about your ability to love others more and ponder whether or not you really are a complete basket case. You have ended 2 long term relationships which although maybe you stayed too long... you left and said enough was enough. You clearly have a tendency to rough it out. I guess the question is why?

I would not say I am a complete basket case.  I have a very good job, pay all the bills on time and my kids and grandkids love me to bits.  I ended the relationship with the boys' dad because he was ruining their lives.  He didn't want them involved in sports any longer and literally wanted them to play video games with him 24/7 (still does).  He was verbally and physically abusive.  I wanted a better life for kids. The day he punched me in the face in front of his mother was the day I knew I need to get out.  He swore he would take the kids back to his country and said I would never see them again.  I lived in fear of him for a very long time.  My T said the same thing.  I stay too long.  I don't know why, I guess I don't like to give up on people.  It's part of my core values.  Family is always there for one another no matter what.

SH4
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2019, 10:26:10 AM »

When you first met your W did you pity her?

Similar with last H, did you pity him?

Also, did W tell you you were brilliant when you initially rescued her? Did that feel good?


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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2019, 12:08:39 PM »

When you first met your W did you pity her?
Yes.  She was in a bad situation or so she told me.  She was just coming out of a relationship with her "crazy x".  She had just recovered from a stage 4 cancer diagnosis & treatment.  She was living with her mom.  She wanted to quit her job and start her dream.  I wanted to rescue her and give her all of that.  I did.  I married her so she could get the insurance and we didn't even tell anyone for 4 months because she didn't want it to look bad.  She didn't even move in with me until after the 4 months and that was when we opened the business.  Literally we dated for a 1 year, were married for 4 months and she didn't move in until the day we opened the business.

Similar with last H, did you pity him?
 
Same deal, he was in the UK on the DOL and I rescued him.  I paid to move him here and got him a student visa and paid for him to go to college.  Then we fought and he moved back for a year then came back here.  He got an H1B visa and refused to get married.  He worked and never paid 1 dime to our house or the kids.  He said I would have all of those expenses without him so why should he help.  He literally spent every dime of his money on himself.

Also, did W tell you you were brilliant when you initially rescued her? Did that feel good?
  Yes, she told me I was an angel who came to her rescue and that she loved me more than she has ever loved anyone...that was until we got DOG1 (3 months after she moved in) and then she said she replaced her love for me with love for him and that she couldn't love me as much anymore because DOG1 is just "PERFECT" and SH4 you are far from perfect.. I replied yes I know I am not perfect, either are you and I love you with all of your flaws...she laughed and said you can't love someone who has flaws...

SH4
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« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2019, 04:09:23 AM »

Okay, you've got a good case of 'white knight syndrome' in you. You are a natural born rescuer... you zoom around in your lifeboat, spot drowning BPD's and scoop them up out the water into the back of your boat. You put a blanket round them, give them a warm drink and trot back to the helm to drive the boat back to shore... You turn round and your victim has jumped overboard again!

Link this into this

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

and there's a lot of powerful emotions and attempts to continue to drag your pwBPD back into your boat. At the beginning it's cute, she praises you, you love that, she says you're the best ever... but over time you're dragger her into the boat and she's punching you in the face telling you what a piece of muck you are.

All you ever wanted was her to be okay, to stand on her own two feet... that's not what your W wanted... but then she didn't want you to drag her into the boat either.

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« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2019, 06:54:14 AM »

Yes, that's what T told me too.  I am a rescuer.

I've read that link before, just read it again.  Every time I read it I get something new out of it.  Thank you!

Funny you should mention about me wanting her to stand on her own two feet!  YES, that's what I wanted for her and what's funny is she always uses those exact words and says things like "you are always trying to knock me down so I can't stand on my own two feet".  Yes, ummm how about NO.  I've only ever tried to build her up.

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« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2019, 09:13:29 AM »

What can you do to prevent this happening again to you?

You have a couple of options, don't give your gifts of love... or give them in a controlled way.

I know which one I would learn to do
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« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2019, 10:29:52 AM »

Excerpt
I am a rescuer.

being a rescuer is usually not an innocent role where one is simply guilty of loving too much.

for the rescuer, there is an emotional pay off - just like there is for a victim.

in codependent relationships, that dynamic rules the day. both need it in order to keep the relationship alive.

Excerpt
"you are always trying to knock me down so I can't stand on my own two feet".  Yes, ummm how about NO.  I've only ever tried to build her up.

i have mentioned before that repairing this relationship would require understanding her perspective, not just dismissing it out of hand.

i understand that presently, that ship may have sailed. but there are a lot of reasons going forward, you may want to try.
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
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« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2019, 11:16:24 AM »

What can you do to prevent this happening again to you?

I am going to tread very lightly going forward, with her if she ever comes back into my life or anyone else for that matter.  I'm going to stop giving my all so soon and I am going to definately try to stop rescuing the "helpless".

SH4
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