I don’t remember a Christmas where she didn’t have a breakdown or rage

[Greengirl1211]

I’ve been working up the courage to post on this group for a few months now. I’m thankful for all of the new insights I’ve gained from reading about others experiences and I think I’m ready.

I’m a 31 year old married woman with a toddler. My mother is possibly uBPD (suggested by my therapist), and also happens to be a school counselor which has complicated matters. She is very intelligent and at times and very high functioning, but when the switch flips she is incredibly hurtful and verbally abusive.

I made the decision with my husband this year to spend the holidays in our new home with just the two of us and our son. This decision has come on the heels of a very difficult year for us (without wanting to sound too much like a soap opera- he had an affair that we are trying to work through in counseling). My mother has been a very negative force in our relationship and marriage for the 8 years we’ve been together (I’ll note that she has never supported any of the relationships with men I have had). She responded to his affair by insisting I divorce him, move closer to her, and verbally berated him via text until I finally insisted he block her. After all of this we went low contact. She still goes back and forth between wanting to reconcile with my family and expressing her rage and hate.

My parents live 4 hours away, so spending the holidays together means having them in our home. They have refused to stay elsewhere on previous visits since this all happened, even when I expressed that we needed our privacy but would still like to see them.

My mother has a particularly hard time during holidays and special occasions. I don’t remember a Christmas where she didn’t eventually have a breakdown or rage. I don’t want to spend this holiday that way and I largely made peace with that until yesterday when my younger sister (who lives out of state and just spent thanksgiving with my parents) expressed how angry she was that I wasn’t going to invite my parent for Christmas.

Now all I can see is my parent and sister having a long conversation about my husband and I, how awful we are, etc. I’m also feeling very hurt that my sister felt the need to get involved and take their side. I know it shouldn’t be about sides but it feels very lonely over here.

[pursuingJoy]

Greengirl, I'm so glad you worked up the courage to share your story. And what a story you have. Thank you for opening up to us.  

It sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job of working through some difficult things and putting your marriage back together. I applaud your courage in setting boundaries with your mom right now. You've chosen a difficult path, but based on her very emotional reaction to your husband, it is an excellent choice to protect you and your little family as you navigate already choppy waters.

My parents live 4 hours away, so spending the holidays together means having them in our home. They have refused to stay elsewhere on previous visits since this all happened, even when I expressed that we needed our privacy but would still like to see them.

We're in the same boat. This year, we opted to visit my BPD MIL for Thanksgiving because we could make it a day trip and control when we arrived and left.

If your parents disrespect your boundaries, they are also choosing to accept the consequences of their choice. How would you feel about clarifying, "We would love to see you for Christmas, but we value our family space and privacy so we don't want to entertain houseguests. If you do not stay in a hotel, you may not visit us for Christmas" or something along those lines?

Now all I can see is my parent and sister having a long conversation about my husband and I, how awful we are, etc. I’m also feeling very hurt that my sister felt the need to get involved and take their side. I know it shouldn’t be about sides but it feels very lonely over here.

Holidays are a huge challenge for most of us here. We get it.

It's so hurtful and scary when family members jump on board. I'm sorry you feel lonely right now. Setting boundaries with your mom is having a ripple effect on a family who has been conditioned to hold the pieces together. This isn't just about your mom. This is about an entire family system. Healthy families might value an individual's autonomy and growth. BPD families care more about maintaining the status quo.

If you feel that you cannot see them for Christmas because of what you're trying to accomplish, that is reasonable and I want you to know that you will find support here.  

I'm curious - why doesn't your sister invite your parents for Christmas?

[GaGrl]

Of you have a difficult relationship with your sister, my bet is that she has her own unique challenges with her mother. She probably feels she is having to do "double duty" this year. We all know that's not the case -- she can just not invite them -- but she has been conditioned by now your family do things.

An invitation can be clearly, definitively, lovingly worded...the above is a good example. I would stay in control of the arrangements...

 "This year, we are keeping our holiday focused on private time with our little family and won't be having houseguests. If you'd like to join us for [whatever activities -- supper and church services on Christmas Eve and gifts/dinner on Christmas Day], we will make reservations at a hotel nearby."

 That way, you control the activities, time at the house, and hotel.

[Harri]

Hi!  I am just popping in to say welcome!  

I am glad you are reaching out for support.  As mentioned, we get it here.

I can't really add to the already great advice you have from Gagrl and pursuingJoy.  I think their suggestions are right on the money.

When it comes to a conversation your sister may be having with your parents... yeah, that hurts.  The thing is we can't control that and the harder we try to stop it, usually by defending or explaining, the worse things get.   Here we focus on the things we can control, which is us and how we respond and differentiate from our family dynamics.  It takes time and it hurts as we try to change our thought patterns and conditioned behaviors but it can be done.  We offer tools that can help you along with listening and support.

I hope you continue to post and in the meantime spend some time reading the topics tacked to the top of the board and other threads.  Feel free to jump in too.  We all support each other.

Again, welcome.

[Greengirl1211]

Thank you all for the support and advice. It’s really comforting to have a place to turn with people who get it.

The last time I approached the suggestion of them staying in a hotel, my mother flew into a rage about how insulting that was and gave me an ultimatum that she would only visit if they are staying in our home. We went to visit them in early October and by the end of the weekend she was screaming at me, wanting to rehash her feelings about the boundaries I have set (not discussing my marriage, not having them stay in my home, not having drawn out emotional conversations about my feelings). We left when things disintegrated and I got excessive text messages for a few days berating me.

We moved into a new house this fall and they haven’t seen it yet because they have refused to visit and stay in a hotel. I agreed a few weeks ago to a trial visit with them staying here next  weekend because I don’t want to keep them from my son. I feel like that visit is close enough to Christmas that it should count for something with them. I should also mention that my husband and I are both teachers with extended Christmas breaks. We told my parents we would come visit them the week after Christmas for a few days to celebrate. I thought those compromises were more than enough- but it’s never enough with her. For a long time she talked about wanting to buy a house next door to us, or even help us buy a large house so she could move in.

I have significant  anxiety about their upcoming visit and this conversation with my sister has left me feeling like I’m walking into an ambush when they come to stay.

[GaGrl]

I would certainly be feeling the anxiety also! I'm so sorry the relationship with your mother causes this level of stress.

What strategies have you thought of to head off your mom's bad behavior? We can help you think of some, if that would help.

Have you thought through your boundaries in terms of your values? Because that really helps to come up with what to say when someone violates your boundaries. For example, if your value is that your marriage situation is private between you and your husband, the boundary is that you won't discuss it with anyone. If your mother "goes there" anyway, you can just say, "That's private, and I won't discuss it." and repeat. And repeay. When you are crystal clear on your values/ boundaries, the words are easier to come to you quickly.

Now let's say you have a value that your home is one in which family members act and communicate with mutual respect.  Your boundary is that you won't remain in the presence of someone treating another with disrespect. Your mother reacts to the above boundary statement on privacy by ramping up to a rage and verbally abusing you. What might you do?

This gets tricky -- you are letting your parents stay at your house (already you've let down your own boundary), so...do you tell your parents to leave? Or do you gather the husband and children and say, "In our house, we treat each other with respect. We are going out for awhile so you can have some space."  Even more drastic would be if they refuse to leave, so you and your family get a hotel room for the night!

 There are levels to this business of holding boundaries. It's good to plan ahead.

How does your mom do when there are planned activities (movie = can't talk)?

Also, where is your dad in all this? Any hope of talking to him ahead of time?

[zachira]

Just want to briefly chime in saying I can understand how overwhelming it is to have a mother with BPD who acts badly every Christmas. I am not sure what it is about the holidays that made my mother suddenly get mad at every one, and I think it had to do with her no longer being able to keep up the superficial appearance of being a nice person. We are here to support you through the holidays and afterwards.

[Methuen]

The last time I approached the suggestion of them staying in a hotel, my mother flew into a rage about how insulting that was and gave me an ultimatum that she would only visit if they are staying in our home.

Just want to support you by ditto'ing that this isn't OK.  My mom nagged and poked and guilted and tried to publicly shame us because she wanted to move in with us as she aged.  We stuck to our boundary.  She lives independently.  We are so grateful we did, even though it was a hard boundary to stick to.  My experience is it is worth keeping your boundary.  Follow your gut feelings.  I'm a really big believer in that.

[Greengirl1211]

I do need to spend some time revisiting my boundaries regarding the upcoming visit with my parents. The reason for limiting their visits is the fact that my mom rarely is able to spend more than a day with us without becoming upset about some perceived slight (even prior to everything that happened with my marriage).

One of the silver linings of the affair is that counseling has helped me realize the impact that my mother’s behavior had not just on me, but also on my husband. I was so conditioned to her behavior that I just accepted the rages as a way of life. It was easier for me to navigate around her triggers and placate her, and I expected him to do the same. Even when that meant her directing verbal abuse at him for minor issues (his failed attempts at making a joke to lighten a mood, him eating her granola, our dog going to the bathroom in her house). As awful as it sounds, I would actually get angry at him for not avoiding the pitfalls or fixing the problems. I just couldn’t stand to deal with her rage and the days and days of calls and messages. I expected him to just know how to avoid the problems.

This is a more complicated issue now, because of the affair. He has actually done something wrong so my mother feels all of her past rages at him we’re valid. She also expresses that we have made her the scapegoat for our marital problems. Obviously there are many layers to the issues we are working through, but my family of origin is certainly one of them. She blames this ‘forced separation’ (her words) as part of a manipulation on his part to keep her from her grandchild and daughter. She refuses to believe that this has been my choice and keeps suggesting that I’ve been brainwashed.

As far as where my father is in all of this, he has been largely silent and distant. This has been another challenging thing to navigate this year. My dad and I were always very close, partially because my mother directed her rage mostly at him and I (my sister was the good child). My dad ran his own business worked a lot when I was a kid, my mom always complained about the trauma that caused. Then the business closed during the 2008 financial crisis and it took him awhile to find work. This was another  trauma, for my mother (her words). My dad was depressed after the business closed (it was a 30 year family business with his father and brother) but it was never about that for my mom. She had to be the primary breadwinner (her words), even though I know my dad drew the same income from the corporation for years after closed. Money has never been an issue for them, but I know it was for her growing up.

My parents have always had a very tumultuous relationship, at times bordering on violent- mostly on her part. I once witnessed her jump on the hood of his truck while he was trying to get away from her. She ripped the windshield wiper off of the truck and he floored it across our driveway with her on the hood. I was home from college at the time,  this was the most insane escalation of their relationship. More typically, I think he spends a lot of nights driving off and sleeping in his truck. He used to share this information with me, and we would discuss the struggles we both had with my mom. Looking back this was probably unhealthy, but it was normal to me for most of my life.

Since the affair, and the subsequent boundaries I established with my mother this summer, my father has been mostly vacant from my life. He always looked to me to smooth things over with her, and this summer I refused. He asked me on multiple occasions this summer  to ‘make things right’ even if I didn’t mean it. Ironically I realized this was the position I kept putting my husband in. Making things right with my mother just to make my life easier. I told my dad that I wouldn’t be doing that anymore, and since then he’s been distant. In some ways this has been harder to accept than anything else. I feel guilty on one hand, like I’ve abandoned him. But on the other hand it makes me feel like our close relationship was really just a way for him to use me in his relationship with my mother.

Sorry for the lengthy post. There’s a lot floating around in this brain these days.

[Methuen]

She ripped the windshield wiper off of the truck and he floored it across our driveway with her on the hood.

While this isn't at all funny, the image still made me laugh.  I have a feeling it's an image a lot of us can relate to.  Sadly, it's somewhat comforting that we all have our own versions of crazy stories to share, and that there are other people like us who "get it". 

I suspect, that like the rest of us, you are muddling your way through this.  You sound like you are moving in the right direction.

[GaGrl]

What is it with cars and windshields? The first time my husband's then-wife was ordered to appear in court was because, during husband's deployment, she had domestic violence charges against her boyfriend. That time resulted in a peace bond -- later situations resulted in the orange jumpsuit.I

Point being -- you have to remember these events to make sure you are able to separate "real life the way most people live it" from the extremes of BPD behavior.

[pursuingJoy]

Greengirl I know you've got a lot on your mind.

It was easier for me to navigate around her triggers and placate her, and I expected him to do the same. Even when that meant her directing verbal abuse at him for minor issues (his failed attempts at making a joke to lighten a mood, him eating her granola, our dog going to the bathroom in her house). As awful as it sounds, I would actually get angry at him for not avoiding the pitfalls or fixing the problems. I just couldn’t stand to deal with her rage and the days and days of calls and messages. I expected him to just know how to avoid the problems.

I'm in your husband's shoes on this. Your description of what is happening was really helpful to me, and affirming, because my H is unable to understand what's happening. He genuinely believes I am to blame. I commend you for seeing and accepting what's happening. It takes a great deal of courage and self-awareness. You're doing great.

This is a more complicated issue now, because of the affair. He has actually done something wrong so my mother feels all of her past rages at him we’re valid. She also expresses that we have made her the scapegoat for our marital problems. Obviously there are many layers to the issues we are working through, but my family of origin is certainly one of them. She blames this ‘forced separation’ (her words) as part of a manipulation on his part to keep her from her grandchild and daughter. She refuses to believe that this has been my choice and keeps suggesting that I’ve been brainwashed.

The affair really blew things wide open in some ways, didn't it? Without it, would you have been able to see things as clearly as you do?

As far as where my father is in all of this, he has been largely silent and distant. This has been another challenging thing to navigate this year. My dad and I were always very close, partially because my mother directed her rage mostly at him and I (my sister was the good child).

Since the affair, and the subsequent boundaries I established with my mother this summer, my father has been mostly vacant from my life. He always looked to me to smooth things over with her, and this summer I refused. He asked me on multiple occasions this summer  to ‘make things right’ even if I didn’t mean it. Ironically I realized this was the position I kept putting my husband in. Making things right with my mother just to make my life easier. I told my dad that I wouldn’t be doing that anymore, and since then he’s been distant. In some ways this has been harder to accept than anything else. I feel guilty on one hand, like I’ve abandoned him. But on the other hand it makes me feel like our close relationship was really just a way for him to use me in his relationship with my mother.

These are all important realizations and thoughts. Your dad may be so lost in it that it's hard to see what's really going on. I love that you have the courage to see this and to realize that you were doing the same thing to your husband. I hope you give yourself some grace. We can only work with the knowledge we have, and that's all you had at the time.

You're looking at some very hard things in regards to your parents and your marriage at the same time. I know it must seem overwhelming at times, but from what you write, you're doing GREAT work. We are here, let us know how we can help.

pj