WHY? WHY? WHY?

[Rev]

Hi all,

So I just listened to a workshop lecture on BPD on YouTube - note to self - STOP doing that!  It was full of ideas to help people deal with their significant others with BPD.

And now I am going to VENT!

For five years - I... tried... to be... patient, understanding, compassionate, faithful, and loving. I tried to raise her boys like my own. I loved them (and still do, although I have been forbidden from contacting them) ... and ... all that happened was I ended up bitter - was blamed for being bitter as if I was always that way - and probably about six months away from a burnout if I hadn't gotten out.

Somebody needs to tell the people who are "helping us understand BPD" that they need to be clear at the outset - if the relationship is ABUSIVE - as in hitting and psychological demeaning - to GET OUT because it's NOT SAFE.

Not all people with BPD are abusive - but the ones who show NPD traits are mean, vindictive, predatory and cause great damage in their wake.

I am fighting hard, right now, to NOT FEEL like a FAILURE - to not feel selfish for getting out while I could.

Thank you for listening.

I need a hug.

Rev

[Ozzie101]

Here you go, Rev: 

You're not a failure. And there's nothing selfish in doing the healthy and right thing for you. Honestly, that's something I struggle with so often: what's selfish and what's healthy?

Some situations cannot be fixed. Some people cannot be cured. Some people make their own choices that make it impossible for them to get better. When faced with that, the best thing the other person can do is make a choice that aligns with their own values and that preserves their own sanity/health/life.

I have made some poor choices in my life. One of those, I'm struggling greatly with the aftermath this particular day. It's so hard. One thing I need to accept, though, is that I made this choice in a difficult time. I'm forgiving and loving and accepting of the mistakes of others. I need to extend myself the same courtesy. And so do you. It sounds like you made the best decision you could in an impossible situation.

[Skip]

Here's a man hug and shoulder punch.

Hold on. These things hurt like hell.

[Rev]

Here you go, Rev:  

You're not a failure. And there's nothing selfish in doing the healthy and right thing for you. Honestly, that's something I struggle with so often: what's selfish and what's healthy?

Some situations cannot be fixed. Some people cannot be cured.

Thank you Ozzie!  My T had said the same things here.  He really asked me two major questions - ONE was - was this even treatable at this stage and if she was not willing to go for T herself, obviously the answer to that was unknown. TWO - was I sure that I could stick it out - even taking into account a trial separation.

I remember taking two entire days to read a legitimate book on couples therapy and then consulting a colleague who is also a licensed family therapist - uses the Gottman method - to properly discern. It was during these two days that another charm came.

We were in the middle of trying to hammer out how we were intending to settle our separation in the wake of my lawyer writing her. She kept wanting to meet face to face without explaining why. We had "family issues" to discuss she said. It took so much energy to stay in my rational self through those brief exchanges over text.

And then it came. I had asked her what she saw as the next steps?  She invited me to meet her at our home - We settled on a coffee shop and set a time. I asked what she wanted to talk about specifically.  She wrote back - "You said you wanted to talk about next steps..." (Direct quote, the three dots included)

Every fiber in my body spoke to me not to go.  And so I when I wrote her that by next steps, I meant the next steps - I meant the legal aspects of managing the separation, she went ballistic. The charming continued periodically, and now I have a cease and desist written. This following the vile emails she wrote to me after the separation agreement was signed and I had blocked her on social media.

Thank you again for the hug... just writing this helps me to remember... I even gave her the chance to pick up her end. Marriage for me is a deep promise - never mind the religion part of it - just a deep promise. Takes two to promise to make it work.

I'm not sure that she lied, so much as that she was never in a mental and spiritual position to make the promise in the first place.

Hugs back.

Rev

[Ozzie101]

This is something I struggled with last year when I was considering leaving my H. I made a vow (something I don't take lightly). Don't I need to uphold it? Yet, what I realized was that, yes, I may be "breaking a vow," but the vow had already been broken by his emotional and verbal abuse of me.

[Lucky Jim]

I made a vow (something I don't take lightly). Don't I need to uphold it? Yet, what I realized was that, yes, I may be "breaking a vow," but the vow had already been broken by his emotional and verbal abuse of me.

I'm a loyal guy and struggled with my marital vows.  Yet I decided that my loyalty was misplaced with a persecutor who was physically and verbally abusing me.

It's still sort of taboo or at least embarrassing for a guy to talk about being the object of his wife's abuse, yet it happens all the time when one's W suffers from BPD.  It takes a terrible toll on one's self-esteem.  After I separated from my BPDxW, I never seriously considered going back.

LuckyJim

LuckyJim

[Rev]

[quote author=Lucky Jim link=topic=341636.msg13091954#msg13091954

It's still sort of taboo or at least embarrassing for a guy to talk about being the object of his wife's abuse, yet it happens all the time when one's W suffers from BPD.  It takes a terrible toll on one's self-esteem. 

LuckyJim
[/quote]

I am completing a master's thesis on why men stay in abusive relationships - it's not sort of taboo - it is taboo.  Interestingly the most cutting edge stuff is coming out of England it seems.  I'm in north america.

The taboo part is actually part of the abuse - where a man will typically intimidate his partner physically, the woman will typically use the taboo to ridicule and shame and isolate the man.

Awful stuff.  But times are changing.  And for the better.

Thanks Lucky Jim.  I never really considered going back either. I just fight feelings of anger every now and then. It really does hit our egos. 

Rev

[SinisterComplex]

"Not all people with BPD are abusive - but the ones who show NPD traits are mean, vindictive, predatory and cause great damage in their wake."

Very true. It is vicious. I would argue that the sufferers who manifest the quiet acting in traits are the worst because the deceit is so deep and when you compound that with narcissistic traits it is a recipe for pure malice to take place. You will feel and know something is off, but since you are not being subjected to vicious outbursts or physical attacks you won't be able to put your finger on it. Over time the mask definitely starts dropping and well you will be in too deep emotionally and you will get hurt.

The only thing I can say in my defense is that the universe and my instincts had my back and I did not cross that threshold into the physical with her. Little did I know or understand at the time it would be perhaps the most important thing that could have ever happened. If I did allow myself to give into my impulses I most likely end up getting her pregnant and she would have cheated on me regardless because of her not being able to be stable on her own for long enough. The lack of object constancy is real.  By me not taking that step I got to watch the train wreck unfold. Got used, abused, manipulated and all that, but man...Whew defcon 5 clusterf*ck crisis averted!

Cheers!

-SC-

[Forgiveness]

(( hug )

[SinisterComplex]

It's still sort of taboo or at least embarrassing for a guy to talk about being the object of his wife's abuse, yet it happens all the time when one's W suffers from BPD.  It takes a terrible toll on one's self-esteem.  After I separated from my BPDxW, I never seriously considered going back.

LuckyJim

The embarrassment is a real thing for sure. And I like you Jim never have considered going back to my ex wife. You couldn't pay me enough money in the world. I would rather get a running head start and dive head first into an active volcano.

Cheers!

-SC-

[SinisterComplex]

Bro hugs for all of us. LOL. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Anyone? Ok seriously just going for a light moment there. :-D

Cheers!

-SC-

[Rev]

Bro hugs for all of us. LOL. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Anyone? Ok seriously just going for a light moment there. :-D

Cheers!

-SC-

Humour is a thing for sure ... love it!

[Rev]

(( hug )

Bless you!

[Hidden Dragon]

I left 6 months after burn out and still feel guilty. I was too afraid to have a child with her. She had to many addictions, I was afraid she cant control.
Im sure Ill never have such sweet gf again, see was absolutely exeptional (her sunny, extrovert, love bombing child side) but at the same time she wasnt able to read others emotions or real needs. It killed me, I was alone all the time, with the small exeption of sex. Raging episodes didnt hurt me so much as that that I never was understood. But I only need to see her and I melt completely. I dont know if this is love or what it is.
I took the exit bc I read here and on the internet that I have to. On my own I would have stayed, I did it against my will. The gut told me do it and I did...

She did not rage against me after break up. 100% victim mode with addiction slip. I am the unloving predator (but she said that we were uncompatible anyway and my depression disqualified me because she is not right person for such people), who left and blocked her...

Dude I need a hug too...

[Hidden Dragon]

Double post

[SinisterComplex]

HD...for one #bropound. For two...bro hug. Keep ya head up.

Cheers!

-SC-

[Woolspinner2000]

Hey Rev,

I'm sorry that you're struggling. There are so many feelings that must be a part of that. I know when I heard a nice radio program this summer about marriages and what to do when there's conflict, it messed with my head and my heart too. The things they were saying probably work in healthy relationships with conflict, but they don't work when there's abuse going on. From that experience I learned that I have to be very cautious about what I listen to so that I don't put myself into an unsafe place emotionally, one of unrealistic expectations.

My uBPDm was the N type, sometimes the queen, and the witch, and even the hermit too. Mostly I remember the N side because that was the physically and verbally violent side we saw far too often growing up.

Then I married the more quiet covert man (it was a familiar and comfortable dysfunction), and he often reminded me of my uBPDm, but I couldn't ever quite figure out why-until the light bulb went off for me as I gained understanding of the covert N side.

Turkish often reminds us on PSI that we don't know what we don't know. Be kind to yourself. I'm glad you're writing your thesis and putting this pain to a good purpose.

 
Wools

[SinisterComplex]

"Then I married the more quiet covert man (it was a familiar and comfortable dysfunction), and he often reminded me of my uBPDm, but I couldn't ever quite figure out why-until the light bulb went off for me as I gained understanding of the covert N side."

Wools, this really struck a nerve for me because my ex wife raged, acted out and would get physically abusive. Sadly, for her it was like she was trying to replay what she witnessed as a child. Her father abusing her mother (perhaps the only way she understands love). She would try to push me to my limits to get me to get physical with her and it probably pissed her off more because I always in control of the situation and never once struck her or did anything physically regrettable.

Anyway, having dealt with that relationship it kinda of prepared me for what I just dealt with, but ultimately I still got used, abused, manipulated, betrayed, tricked, deceived on a whole different level because of the quiet acting in manifestation with narc traits as well. The light bulb really went off when she grabbed my arm all panicky asking if her move the was the worst ever and then when she completely disappeared and was vacant and distant in her eyes, but sitting right in my truck.

Truly the disorder is quite complex and insidious to say the least...

Cheers!

-SC-

[Rev]

Hey Rev,

I'm sorry that you're struggling. There are so many feelings that must be a part of that. I know when I heard a nice radio program this summer about marriages and what to do when there's conflict, it messed with my head and my heart too. The things they were saying probably work in healthy relationships with conflict, but they don't work when there's abuse going on. From that experience I learned that I have to be very cautious about what I listen to so that I don't put myself into an unsafe place emotionally, one of unrealistic expectations.

My uBPDm was the N type, sometimes the queen, and the witch, and even the hermit too. Mostly I remember the N side because that was the physically and verbally violent side we saw far too often growing up.

Then I married the more quiet covert man (it was a familiar and comfortable dysfunction), and he often reminded me of my uBPDm, but I couldn't ever quite figure out why-until the light bulb went off for me as I gained understanding of the covert N side.

Turkish often reminds us on PSI that we don't know what we don't know. Be kind to yourself. I'm glad you're writing your thesis and putting this pain to a good purpose.

 
Wools

As usual, you are very, very perceptive.  

The thesis, my supervisor tells me, will be an excellent exercise in self-care (as a secondary benefit to actually starting a program in my organization based on good science rather than intuitive supposition alone).  

In all of this, I realized that in this last 5 year relationship, it was really "my father" that I married - in the sense that we work out our unresolved stuff in our intimate relationships.  Little wonder then that when my father died - I began to look at my exW in a whole new light.  

Now that I have gotten through the last 10 days after you first reached out to me and the heavy emotions have passed - the frustration I felt after video is triggered by what is left - surface level thinking that continues allow N people to slide - and a growing disrespect I have for my exW who works in the same organization with me - but a different branch now (thankfully) - where I am told by my colleagues that the institution will be able to handle well - which helps me sleep better at night.  

Thanks again for the hug.   Blessings on your day.

Rev

[SinisterComplex]

Rev, once the smoke truly starts to clear and the sun sets everything seems to just start to fall into place. Its kind of like sitting there and watching a whole bunch of puzzle pieces come trickling down from the sky and then they all start magically dropping into place and provide you the answers you seek.

In any given situation where life gets rough or overwhelming I have learned to just let nature takes it course and to rely on the principles of the chaos theory.

In truth I would say the chaos theory is essentially why I am able to bounce back and always become stronger from any hardship. Perseverance and resilience are key for sure.

"In all of this, I realized that in this last 5 year relationship, it was really "my father" that I married - in the sense that we work out our unresolved stuff in our intimate relationships.  Little wonder then that when my father died - I began to look at my exW in a whole new light. " - This part for me here was perhaps the most important from your response. When things happen and they seem like they are just a coincidence you will come to find out there was an underlying reason why a certain event happened or person came into your life, etc.

Anyway, Keep on keeping on my friend and I guarantee that thesis of yours will be magnificent.

I'm going to stick with the #bropound to be different. LOL

Cheers!

-SC-