Learning and trying to move on, while seeing ex often

[clvrnn]

Previous post : https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340712.0

I am so thankful for this space and the members who have provided me with such insightful advice, especially at times when I've felt so repetitive or annoying. I don't know how I'd have got through some very dark times without this place.

I think it might be good for me to keep posting, regardless if anyone replies... lmao.

I feel like this experience taught me a lot about the end of relationships. When I was younger, I would always do the whole begging/pleading thing - which obviously never worked out well. I didn't do it here; I couldn't, because discussions of feelings and love only made this person retreat further, so... wasn't even an option. So I had to abandon that behaviour, which is a good thing - in the future, if I ever date anyone again, I feel as if I'll be able to handle things more maturely.

Honestly though, I still miss her. It's now December, so what - 10 months since she ended things? I used to shame myself a lot for still feeling connected to her, not being over it... but that only added to everything, and I have learnt to just allow my feelings. They're not nice, but fighting them doesn't work. People just want you to move on, get over it. I've learnt that there are only certain spaces/people you can talk about this stuff to, too.

In regards to her blocking me, well.. it's not nice. But I had her number for months anyway, and we weren't talking. If she hadn't have blocked me, we wouldn't be talking. Even if we sat down and had a nice little conversation, we'd still have to go our separate ways. Uni would still end, and we would still never see each other again. I've learnt that it doesn't matter if I'm blocked or not, really. She still avoids me at uni, but... I mean what's the alternative? Hang out together all day? Pretend nothing happened? Hanging out and being friends would be very painful for me - she'd leave and go back to her own life, go and do her thing. So.

Sometimes I just feel like messaging her and being honest about missing her, and the way I feel. I don't know why. I have never said any of that stuff to her. I do, though. I really do miss her. We had a lot of fun, at times. She can be a fun person, despite the complexities. I wonder what she'd think if I did that. I think I've given her a lot of power in my mind, and haven't really just said how I feel, in case I annoy her, or something. I have told previous exes how I feel, and while I may never have gotten the result I wanted, it did give a sense of release.

But all in all it is getting easier, generally. It's not nice, but it's definitely not as hard as it was before. I don't know if or how I'll date anyone else, I still feel very emotionally connected to her - even though there's been zero interaction between us and I am worried about how I'll feel when uni's over - but hey.

I finally have an appointment for DA counselling on Monday, so I'm hoping that this will provide some external support, especially as I've tried so hard to find a suitable counsellor. This organisation is a domestic abuse one, so hopefully they'll be better equipped to help me.

[clvrnn]

(Just rambling, at this point!)

I think what also hinders the moving on process for this experience is just the underlying belief - or maybe hope - that an ex will change their mind, again. As most of us have experienced the switches between idealisation and devaluation, it probably doesn't help.

I can remember two previous relationships ending. One, she just left, and that was it. She'd never split up with me before, so I knew it was the end. There was none of this hope, or this half-expecting her to 'come back' because it had happened before.

Another ex did have the habit of breaking up with me often, which was deeply unhealthy. I did get used to her ending things then coming back. I'm not sure if she had BPD, as it didn't seem to be when she became engulfed, or whatever. More just an unhealthy on/off relationship. But when that ended I did find it difficult to believe that it was over, and although I wasn't really that in love with her, I found it immensely difficult to move on.

With this most recent person, yeah... again, I'm just used to the returning, the silence, the sudden interest, the silence, etc. Especially as we are still sharing a space, there is, within me, this slight belief that it's possible she'll interact with me again - even though I doubt she is going to. Had she ended things only once, and never avoided me in the past and re-engaged with me, I wonder if I'd still be in this mindset? 

I've dated people too, who've only ended things once. Sure, it was upsetting and painful, but I just eventually forgot about them and there was no lingering analysis, no ongoing hope, no constant rumination. Even when I really liked the person! Almost instant acceptance.

The truth is that F isn't even that remarkable. I didn't like a lot of her views, and I often found her conversation to be unsatisfying and immature, but there's still a very strong attachment to her. I guess because of the intermittent reinforcement, yeah. At this stage it almost feels like the challenge is just to get her to reply - I don't even know if I'd want to actually be with her, long-term.

A lot of the things she'd say about her personality were worrying - she'd joke about slapping me, for example... and would look at me, eyes wide open, smiling, to see how I'd react to the idea of her slapping me... I mean, thinking about it now, that's just weird and worrying. I think she would be very difficult to be with, and I think she would be quite mean to me, often. Those anger issues... they are something I don't think I'd want to see more of. If they were that prevalent at an early stage, what would it be like at 2, 3, 4 years in? I wouldn't want to imagine my mental state, at that time.

Wow, this turned out to be very long. Sorry! Just needed to vent, I guess.

[SinisterComplex]

Vent as much as you need to and do not feel ashamed for doing so. You have to get it out to feel better. Holding onto that will just makes things worse for you. Suppressing emotions is a death knell to your mental health.

This platform is one of the best resources there are and will be for releasing the pain, suffering, etc that you have pent up inside from these kinds of relationships.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[clvrnn]

Thank you, SinisterComplex, for your words of support! What a relief it is to have such a safe space where you can speak freely without being judged or told to "get over it!"

 

[clvrnn]

Me again, .

It seems as if every day I am in a completely different mindset, or something. Late last night I stumbled into an epiphany of sorts; I realised that I have been 'performing', in terms of interactions with this ex. So many times people have told me I'm 'too sensitive', 'crazy', 'needy' - only now have I learnt that this is not a reflection on me, but a reflection of how my emotions make THEM feel, a projection.

expwBPD did this, too. Called me 'emotionally manipulative' once, when I was discussing how I felt at something she'd said.. called me 'melodramatic' when I was explaining my feelings over some other issue. Like, if you can't openly discuss your feelings with the person you're WITH, then that's a huge red flag. I have ALWAYS blamed myself for being too much, and stifling my true needs because of interactions like this. I don't know how it took me so long to realise that the issue wasn't actually me.

Even with the silence, the break up. I crafted all contact so as not to annoy, not to come off as overly emotional, not to irritate, not to make people hate me. But is this person thinking about MY feelings? No. So why the hell did I devote so much energy into being careful with my interactions with them? Lol. I don't know what this is but I seemed to have turned some kind of corner, here.

I'd really have just loved to say "you know what, this isn't OK, and you ignoring me is just weird and rude, and you're out of order for what you did to me" - seeking approval from someone that hurt me, my goodness. It's crazy just how deep into pain and validation-seeking one can get.

At the end of the day, she hurt me, verbally abused me and then blocked me out of her life... I mean, how much hurt would she like to cause? In the same vein, though.. I did keep returning for more bad treatment, but then... I wasn't that stable, myself. If that entire situation was playing out NOW, I doubt I'd act in the same ways.

I feel almost angry - I didn't deserve any of her treatment, yet something had convinced me I was at fault, somewhere. Like, oh my mood wasn't great that day so maybe it was my fault she got angry and ended it...like, no. A mood change, a normal human mood change, should not be the cause of someone cutting you out of their life. How someone reacts to something is not your fault.

I saw a picture of her about an hour ago, and I didn't feel anything. Just a complete stranger. I didn't think she was pretty, interesting, nothing. There was nothing there, just annoyance. I can't wait for uni to end so that I can just have her out of sight and out of mind.

[SinisterComplex]

clvrnn, I am curious as to what mbti type you may be. If you don't know I would recommend looking into it. Personally, I believe it is a very helpful tool in getting to know one's self and developing self-awareness. ;-)

The reason why your mind is in flux is simply because your emotions were toyed with. A trojan horse penetrated your defenses so to speak. It happens. Especially when you are an empath which from what I am seeing here has a high probability of being the case.

"I'd really have just loved to say "you know what, this isn't OK, and you ignoring me is just weird and rude, and you're out of order for what you did to me" - seeking approval from someone that hurt me, my goodness. It's crazy just how deep into pain and validation-seeking one can get."

Yep...this is why I slammed the door shut on the person I was involved with. I did not give her the opportunity to run. I pulled the plug and told her about herself and told her to kick rocks.

At the end of the day, she hurt me, verbally abused me and then blocked me out of her life... I mean, how much hurt would she like to cause? In the same vein, though.. I did keep returning for more bad treatment, but then... I wasn't that stable, myself. If that entire situation was playing out NOW, I doubt I'd act in the same ways.

It was a lesson you needed to learn...make sure you have officially learned this lesson and take it with you moving forward.

I feel almost angry - I didn't deserve any of her treatment, yet something had convinced me I was at fault, somewhere. Like, oh my mood wasn't great that day so maybe it was my fault she got angry and ended it...like, no. A mood change, a normal human mood change, should not be the cause of someone cutting you out of their life. How someone reacts to something is not your fault.

This is true. You can only control yourself. You are on the right path...stick to it my friend. Better people and better opportunities await you in your path of life. Wash away the negativity and punt it good bye.

Cheers!

-SC-

[Cromwell]

Hi clvrnn

Is there any aspect to all this which is about the hard to understand behaviour being in itself a pull factor towards her?

The social scientist within, you study this stuff id speculate that it likely holds more interest to you from that angle than others.

You did everything here to be on nest behaviour in the relations lhip it comes across. No reasonable reason to be rejected. Yet this still happened. Did not fully express how you felt at times, yet the outcome she ended up giving the cold shoulder anyway.

[clvrnn]

I think yeah, because it started off as me trying to guess her intentions constantly, that's what it just grew into.

You're absolutely right. I did it all 'right' and still ended up here. My conclusion is that she's just a horrible person. BPD or not, ignoring someone and blocking them when they haven't done anything is really annoying and rude and stupid.

She essentially bullied me into submission - I've never expressed how I've truly felt ,even being forgiving after she verbally abused me in front of people - most days I'm just annoyed at that version of myself and want to confront this individual and tell them it's not OK. Not that she'd care, and not that it would help me, but still.


With most break ups you get a chance to eventually air it out. Hasn't been one, here. I don't care WHY she blocked me or is ignoring me. Good luck to her. She'll need it, carrying on like that

[SinisterComplex]

These individuals are straight up cowards which is exactly why the breakups are so messy. It is quite common. They cannot face themselves and what they do. Once you get past your hurt and pain you can look back and see it all with a refreshing perspective and you come to understand there was no other way it was going to end. It is the nature of the beast. They are children emotionally and have not developed or grown up yet even though they have adult bodies. So really how you have to look at it...what did you expect?

Cheers!

-SC-

[Cromwell]

Why do you think you haven't confronted her and expressed. Is it because just it would be like whistling in the wind.

Your smart clvrnn sensible too.

Maybe you know she is provoking you and you haven't let it work. There is confusion of the fine details. They whys and what not but sounds to me the message is clear. You protected yourself here from whatever it is. Mental illness or just age studented emotionally development. Clearly something is wrong here and you've dealt with it the mature way.

Just my perception of it. Does it feel like some of this is fizzlling out? I think since I've known you here what you have helped me is showing how much self control you've had in such emotionally upsetting and bewildering circumstances.

Wishing you well.

[Cromwell]

Sorry about haphazard typos I'm using my phone

[clvrnn]

Why do you think you haven't confronted her and expressed. Is it because just it would be like whistling in the wind.

Your smart clvrnn sensible too.

Maybe you know she is provoking you and you haven't let it work. There is confusion of the fine details. They whys and what not but sounds to me the message is clear. You protected yourself here from whatever it is. Mental illness or just age studented emotionally development. Clearly something is wrong here and you've dealt with it the mature way.

Just my perception of it. Does it feel like some of this is fizzlling out? I think since I've known you here what you have helped me is showing how much self control you've had in such emotionally upsetting and bewildering circumstances.

Hey Crom,

I haven't confronted her before because, I felt like I didn't want to annoy her, to 'put her off' me, hoping for a recycle, and really I was just intimidated by her. I felt that she had bullied me into submission - I didn't feel able to express myself as I needed to. All her silences, her dismissals of my feelings, etc. All of it made me unable to really tell her how I felt.

When you say "the message is clear"  what do you mean?

Sadly over the last few days I just lost control a bit, and ended up trying to call her. She didn't answer. I tried again, and I'd been blocked. I then just sent about three emails, really going into detail about how I thought that what she did wasn't OK, and that I am baffled at her lack of remorse, and confusion as to why she cut me out of her life in such a drastic way - stating that it's fine if she doesn't want to be with me, but why go about it in this way? I told her that it's awful to shout at me in front of her family, and that I no longer trust anyone, romantically... I perhaps went a little too into it, but I just felt a sense of release.

What also spurred this was that I had an ex from years ago suddenly get in touch with me. She told me she'd stumbled across emails from our break up, and she wanted to apologise, and didn't hold any grudges against me or the situation. We ended up seeking on the phone until 3am! It made me realise that people fall out all the time but then handle things eventually.

So I did lose control a bit, and now I feel a bit embarrassed. I probably look really stupid to her, now. I am slightly ashamed of my actions, but I've never confronted her in that way before. Of course, she didn't respond.

Some of it is fizzling out, but it's still 'there', if that makes sense. I do think about it often, and it has really affected me, but there's nothing I can do. I do feel pain often, bt am starting to feel ashamed of how long it's taking me to get over it, or wondering why I even care, at this point.

I'm pleased I am at least able to offer you some help, in whatever way. Your presence here is very comforting and helpful, and gives a lot to think about, so thank you.

[Cromwell]

So I did lose control a bit, and now I feel a bit embarrassed. I probably look really stupid to her, now.

Now in this past 2 weeks ive seen more of a different side of you too clvrnn, the anger is beginning to outlet, again, in a mature controlled way. A controlled explosion. It was a healthy outlet.
Remember this is less than ideal circumstances. A lot of stress, a lot of emotion, illness too, depression, it alters our thoughts from what would be without it. I realise in my own behaviour today having healed from this, I no longer behave in ways that are symptomatic of depression or stress. Because they are resolved sufficiently. Still a bit to do, still some residual mop up, could do with a holiday, but otherwise; stable, in control.


You did what you did Clvrnn, for a reason, and overall it has made you feel a release of that tension.

How do you feel about Christmas and New Year? I might not log in for awhile until 2020, I find it a therapeutic much needed time to relax with family and think about something different.

YOu have helped me loads, I am grateful always, the thing I hope most for is to see you progress through this, there is the potential for good to come out of this and have faith that you feel better once you are through this and can enjoy life having gone through something so difficult. It has it's rewards, all this now and builds strength, it is character development and tropism. This might not have been the real environment and relationship you need to flourish, grow and be the best you can offer and expect in return. Best wishes, Clvrnn.

[SinisterComplex]

"We ended up seeking on the phone until 3am! It made me realize that people fall out all the time but then handle things eventually."- I wouldn't go that far. I would make the argument that it is situational. Not everything is meant to be resolved. Not everyone can be saved. Everyone deserves forgiveness sure. However, if someone has seriously wronged you and it is a pattern of behavior...you slam that door shut and move on. Keeping hope alive or believing that ending should have or could have been different, etc is not healthy. If it was a mistake and out of the norm for their behavior and usually their words and actions match up then I can understand that point of view. In essence, a point I'm making here...there is a significant difference between toxic behavior and a toxic person.

Sometimes the fallout is exactly what needed to happen to remove that person from your life's path so a new path could open up. Essentially, sometimes people are just meant to serve a purpose in your life or be a catalyst and you just have to come to terms with that (speaking in general terms and not directed at anyone in particular).

Also, never be afraid to have a confrontation. Confrontation is necessary for growth. Also, don't be ashamed...that should never be the case. If someone treats you like sh*t, or disrespects you...you call them out on it and you have to be willing to call a 4th and long punt and tell them to go kick rocks without hesitation!

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

 

 

[clvrnn]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

SC: You are right about the confrontation part. You do something bad to someone, they let you know about it. That's just how life is, isn't it? Also yeah, it is situational, the making up after falling out. I guess this person just doesn't want to do that with me, for whatever reason.

In other news, just to vent... I think I still just find this BPD stuff so confusing and complex. One day things were fine, the next, she was shouting at me in front of her family... I didn't know what to do to stop it, or to calm it down. I read that thing about BPD relationships and how they evolve over on the other page, and it's so accurate. It even says "the way you're breathing" as something that annoys them.. it's true. I was literally sitting on the sofa, in silence. She said get out, you're making me angrier. Erm... OK.

I don't know how I'll get over this. I've applied so many methods, reframing thoughts, meditation, journalling, reading all the wonderful replies on here... I still can't believe that all happened, and that she is still maintaining this absolute silence. I still debate the idea of approaching her in person, and just blurting it all out. Stupidly I still hope that one day she'll turn around and say sorry or contact me.

While I probably have made progress, I just feel so internally broken. This pain is always there, no amount of doing hobbies, writing essays, exercising, whatever - nothing gets rid of that pain in the pit of my stomach. I think about her constantly, not overtly but it's always present. I feel like most people don't 'get it' and yeah... it's just weird. I don't know when this will go away.

[clvrnn]

I also feel like I had really held back from the typical post-breakup pleading and begging at the time, based on what I knew about BPD. I pretended I was OK, I pretended I was in control of my feelings and thoughts. But now, however many months later, I feel like I just want to send 100 messages begging for a response, etc. I won't, but I feel that way. It's like a delayed response, or something.

I feel like there must be something wrong with me. How can I still be feeling like this? I realised that it's just the general intense closeness, then the rage/split, then she said we could be friends but I wasn't meeting up to all the rules, then she just stopped talking to me. Like, I feel like I was just sitting behind a screen watching it all - I had no control or say over any of it. Any time I wanted to speak about anything, I was dismissed or shouted at, or ignored. So I never got to speak about how I felt, or what I wanted to happen. There was no agreement to not talk, there was no agreement TO talk. She has just done whatever she wanted, all the way through.

I didn't contact her for six months, then when I did, she just blocked me. All I said was hey how are you. Maybe there's something I said during the times of conflict that has caused this, I don't know. I did tell her that she was messing up my fitness and mental health, and that she needed help for her anger, etc - but nothing out of the realm of normalcy, I didn't call her mother any names, or... and anything I ever did say was always in direct response to her doing things like ranting at high speed at me over the phone and then suddenly hanging up and blocking me. Like, she was out of control, and she was showing no consideration.

She'd created this whole narrative that I had done something at her sister's house and I hadn't. I had no understanding or compassion for my feelings, ever, at any time. I felt worn down and broken and frustrated at this person who had suddenly developed a deep anger for me out of nowhere. I had no idea what was even going on.

Unless it's that she's found this page, or something. Well then, you know, F. Everything I've written here is not untrue, is it? If you have found this page, then you know just how I have been broken by your behaviour, and how much pain I have been through. Also, why would finding this page make someone stop talking to you... Honestly, I've done worse to exes, and they've always spoken to me. Plus, I didn't even create this situation. It wasn't me. I didn't do anything.

[SinisterComplex]

So new approach here...I like seeing you vent everything out. It is healthy and cathartic for you. So, if you want insight or a response...I'll let you ask for it. I think I've said enough and I would much rather just observe you work through your stuff, but know I am around for support.

Cheers!

-SC-

[clvrnn]

So new approach here...I like seeing you vent everything out. It is healthy and cathartic for you. So, if you want insight or a response...I'll let you ask for it. I think I've said enough and I would much rather just observe you work through your stuff, but know I am around for support.

Cheers!

-SC-

Thank you SC. That is really what this is now, just catharsis. I have really had some wonderful advice and I really appreciate it - from you and everyone. I don't really even expect replies at this stage . Sometimes things just get too much and I have to get it all out. There really isn't any other kind of safe space where I can do so.

[Cromwell]

Hi Clvrnn

how are you doing.

[clvrnn]

Hi Clvrnn

how are you doing.

Hello Crom,

Thanks for checking in. To be honest, I've hit a very low point in mental health - but trying to just take it day by day. Feeling like I've run out of strength - uni resumes next week but I've decided to take a week off. There are only 12 weeks left, and my ex hasn't said a word to me - obviously she doesn't intend to. Just need to get through those last few weeks and then I feel like I can finally close this chapter and move on properly, without having to face her all the time. I still feel as if there's something I've done or said that's made my ex cut me off like this, but oh well.

Counselling was a bit of a let-down. At one point the counsellor said something like "so, in your eyes, the anger was disproportionate?" and I just felt really invalidated. Will bring it up in next session, though. I don't think the counsellor gets it, but it's free so I'll keep going for now.

[Cromwell]

12 weeks clvrnn good to hear from you and clu tdoen to freedom. The environmental stress of being near her and not only witnessing the oddball behaviour but there must also be apprehension of unpredictability. Not making out she is or was d angerous but who knows. It Stimulates the nervous system it wears the strongest of us down.

And soon you will not have to endure it anymore. Hang on in there 

[Cromwell]

12 weeks clvrnn good to hear from you and this last lap to freedom. The environmental stress of being near her and not only witnessing the oddball behaviour but there must also be apprehension of unpredictability. Not making out she is or was d angerous but who knows. It Stimulates the nervous system it wears the strongest of us down.

And soon you will not have to endure it anymore. Hang on in there  

fixed phone spelling typos

[clvrnn]

fixed phone spelling typos

Thank you Crom. Certainly been an exhausting ride. Thank you so much for all the support, also. You've been a major part of my healing. I hope you're well x

[SinisterComplex]

Hello Crom,

Thanks for checking in. To be honest, I've hit a very low point in mental health - but trying to just take it day by day. Feeling like I've run out of strength - uni resumes next week but I've decided to take a week off. There are only 12 weeks left, and my ex hasn't said a word to me - obviously she doesn't intend to. Just need to get through those last few weeks and then I feel like I can finally close this chapter and move on properly, without having to face her all the time. I still feel as if there's something I've done or said that's made my ex cut me off like this, but oh well.

Counselling was a bit of a let-down. At one point the counsellor said something like "so, in your eyes, the anger was disproportionate?" and I just felt really invalidated. Will bring it up in next session, though. I don't think the counsellor gets it, but it's free so I'll keep going for now.

I highly recommend that you do not forget to bring up this feeling and thought process next time. What I would suggest moving forward though is that when you feel this way with anyone make sure to bring it up in the moment. As I mentioned before...conflict is not a bad thing. Conflict brings opportunity for resolution and growth. In essence, use your feelings as a device for creating better and stronger communication habits.

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-