Estranged daughter

[Parents! Get help here!]

Although not professionally diagnosed, I’m convinced my daughter has bpd. She has exhibited the symptoms since adolescence - she is now an adult and a single mom to a toddler. Our relationship has always been volatile with frequent eruptions of verbal abuse and rage from her that would usually disappear within a few hours but she never apologized or took responsibility for any of her actions or words. If I brought up the argument, it would bring her immediately back to the feelings that triggered the argument in the first place. If I waited a few days to bring it up, she would refuse to discuss it and would leave if I persisted in trying. Recently, there was a trivial incident that took place and she totally lost it and began screaming and stomping around, accusing me of choosing her sister over her and she’s had enough and was leaving. My poor granddaughter  was terrified and in tears. I concentrated on comforting hwr while my daughters went at it. But even though I didn’t participate it didn’t matter. I received a text from her later that night telling me she was done with me and her sister.. Which is virtually the only family she has. Her father lives out of town and they only see each other a few times per year. I was devastated and called her. She did answer the phone but only to continue the verbal abuse and screaming. It got me no where. Now as I read more about this disorder, I understand there was no way anything I could say would make a difference. She accuses me of never being there for her, treating her like PLEASE READ her entire life, of always choosing her sister over her. None of those things are true in reality but I’ve learned through counselling and reading that they are true to her. Since that’s happened, I have seen her but only because I continue to babysit my granddaughter. She goes to a daycare while she works but she has no one else to look after him outside of work hours. In those instances, she is distant and sometimes rude. I used to try and ask about her but I’ve stopped as it just annoyed her and I am very concerned about the tension my grandchild is likely feeling. I’m confused about some of the signals she is sending me though and I don’t know how to respond or if I should respond. This happened 8 weeks ago and 3 times since then, she has texted me regarding a trip we had been planning. Her text is always referring to the trip and how she plans on doing something different, without me. When I received the first one, I responded saying I understood and hoped by the time the trip came around that she might change her mind. This started a whole new set of rage and verbal abuse. Same thing the 2nd time. This last time, I just didn’t respond at all. Is this the right approach? It seemed to be as when I next saw her, she was more pleasant than her usual brusque manner. But then the next day when she came to pick up her daughter,  it was like a switch had been turned on - I could tell she was angry on arrival and when I asked about a future visit with my granddaughter she used that as an opportunity to tell me she probably wasn’t going to let her visit without her. I told her I would love if she came too and she replied she didn’t want to - why would she want to spend time with someone who treated her like PLEASE READ all her life.  Ahhh, I am trying to understand this disorder but it’s so difficult to navigate through all the emotions. She says she wants nothing to do with me but yet she starts arguments. Does she do that so I will respond that I love and miss her? Each time I’ve done that it’s made her lose control and rage even more.. And it seems the anger stays with her for weeks. I want what’s best for her at this point even if it means a life without me. But if there’s a chance I can fix the relationship I want to do all that I can. I’m just not sure at this point what I should do. Some sites say respect what she’s asking which is to be left alone. That she’ll come back when she’s ready and not before. And maybe never. I find it impossible to know the right course of action and yet it’s so important I don’t want to screw up. If you’re able to offer advice based on what I’ve written I’d appreciate it.

[Therese59]

Although not professionally diagnosed, I’m convinced my daughter has bpd. She has exhibited the symptoms since adolescence - she is now an adult and a single mom to a toddler. Our relationship has always been volatile with frequent eruptions of verbal abuse and rage from her that would usually disappear within a few hours but she never apologized or took responsibility for any of her actions or words. If I brought up the argument, it would bring her immediately back to the feelings that triggered the argument in the first place. If I waited a few days to bring it up, she would refuse to discuss it and would leave if I persisted in trying. Recently, there was a trivial incident that took place and she totally lost it and began screaming and stomping around, accusing me of choosing her sister over her and she’s had enough and was leaving. My poor granddaughter  was terrified and in tears. I concentrated on comforting hwr while my daughters went at it. But even though I didn’t participate it didn’t matter. I received a text from her later that night telling me she was done with me and her sister.. Which is virtually the only family she has. Her father lives out of town and they only see each other a few times per year. I was devastated and called her. She did answer the phone but only to continue the verbal abuse and screaming. It got me no where. Now as I read more about this disorder, I understand there was no way anything I could say would make a difference. She accuses me of never being there for her, treating her like PLEASE READ her entire life, of always choosing her sister over her. None of those things are true in reality but I’ve learned through counselling and reading that they are true to her. Since that’s happened, I have seen her but only because I continue to babysit my granddaughter. She goes to a daycare while she works but she has no one else to look after him outside of work hours. In those instances, she is distant and sometimes rude. I used to try and ask about her but I’ve stopped as it just annoyed her and I am very concerned about the tension my grandchild is likely feeling. I’m confused about some of the signals she is sending me though and I don’t know how to respond or if I should respond. This happened 8 weeks ago and 3 times since then, she has texted me regarding a trip we had been planning. Her text is always referring to the trip and how she plans on doing something different, without me. When I received the first one, I responded saying I understood and hoped by the time the trip came around that she might change her mind. This started a whole new set of rage and verbal abuse. Same thing the 2nd time. This last time, I just didn’t respond at all. Is this the right approach? It seemed to be as when I next saw her, she was more pleasant than her usual brusque manner. But then the next day when she came to pick up her daughter,  it was like a switch had been turned on - I could tell she was angry on arrival and when I asked about a future visit with my granddaughter she used that as an opportunity to tell me she probably wasn’t going to let her visit without her. I told her I would love if she came too and she replied she didn’t want to - why would she want to spend time with someone who treated her like PLEASE READ all her life.  Ahhh, I am trying to understand this disorder but it’s so difficult to navigate through all the emotions. She says she wants nothing to do with me but yet she starts arguments. Does she do that so I will respond that I love and miss her? Each time I’ve done that it’s made her lose control and rage even more.. And it seems the anger stays with her for weeks. I want what’s best for her at this point even if it means a life without me. But if there’s a chance I can fix the relationship I want to do all that I can. I’m just not sure at this point what I should do. Some sites say respect what she’s asking which is to be left alone. That she’ll come back when she’s ready and not before. And maybe never. I find it impossible to know the right course of action and yet it’s so important I don’t want to screw up. If you’re able to offer advice based on what I’ve written I’d appreciate it.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Swimmy55]

Welcome and thank you for writing here.  Many of us come here for the same reasons you have.  You have just made the first step in doing the right thing in the situation- by writing here.  It may sound strange and illogical, but us realizing we have needs and rights just like our BPD adult child does is a path forward.  In order to not be held hostage to their rages and outbursts,  we have to keep the focus on ourselves.  In addition, we have to start being uncomfortable with the familiar uncomfortable comfort levels we get used to to keep the peace.  Don't be afraid to "screw up", as your intentions are honorable and honest. 
Maybe some detachment on your part would be helpful to you.  This is where you try something without attaching your emotional well-being to your daughter's actions. Easier said than done, I know. You had mentioned counselling - are you still going.  Many of us here need our own therapists in order to learn how to have boundaries.  There is no one quick fix for BPD unfortunately, it is a long road and it is especially challenging when the BPD holds grandkids as ransom for something they want.   There are other grandparents here who I am sure will chime in .  Keep writing back as you need to.

[formflier]

I want to join Swimmy55 in welcoming you.

You mentioned some "signals" you didn't understand.  I'd like to hear about those if you want to share.

It certainly can be difficult to figure out what is a good response.  I'm positive we can help you think it through.

Best,

FF

[Resiliant]

Hi Therese,

I too would like to extend a welcome to you. 

I feel your pain. 

Never in my life would I have imagined it would be this difficult to maintain a relationship where you offer so much love to someone only to have your words misconstrued and your intentions twisted.  We try patience, we put up with abuse knowing that it comes from pain, we turn the other cheek and we try to love some more only to have it backfire on us.

Still, we keep trying because we love.  Because we see suffering and we have compassion. Because we still see the other side of the person which is actually beautiful. And because we still believe in that person.

I too wonder when I should and shouldn't respond.  I have decided now that I will only respond to friendly messages and not the abusive ones.  I will save my validation for the times when my son is not verbally abusive. 

I too am confused, and I'm confused about if I should call him on the phone or not.
I know that he likes to hear from me and hear my voice and many times it goes really well and he thanks me for calling.  At the same time sometimes I wonder if I should contact him or not because I know that I could trigger something and I don't want to him be so upset that he misses a day of work or has an accident while driving.   I consider that if I contact him with the intention of making his day better it might actually do the opposite and trigger him to become angry and reckless or send him into a mental place where he can't function for the constant rumination.

I have found there are many wonderful people on this board that understand exactly what we are going through and so many people have such inspiring things to say.  I also love browsing the other boards with the PDFs and the videos etc.  So much to learn here!

Hang in there, we are with you!

 
R

[Therese59]

Thank you so much to all who have responded with support. I am still in counselling and plan on continuing this for as long as I feel fragile. I am trying to go on with my life as I know I need to do - I accept invitations out with friends, I am preparing for the holidays, etc but there’s no real joy in any of these things. It’s difficult to imagine life without my daughter and try as I might to put that out of my mind, right now I’m not able to do that. The mixed signals I referred to are the texts that she sends me out of the blue about this trip we were supposed to take. She tells me she wants nothing to do with me and a few days later she’ll send me a text with an update on what she may do instead of going on the trip. There’s no need for her to do that as it’s totally out of my hands. The last 2 times I’ve responded saying how I still hoped she would come around by then and we could go on the trip together which led to more vile and abusive texts from her to which I still respond telling her how much I want our relationship to be better, how much I love her and how sorry I am that she’s feeling like this. I wonder if she does this as a test to see if/how I will respond ? After the last 2 times though I decided to not respond to the third and last one she sent. It could be a mistake. She could see that as a lack of caring on my part but I just couldn’t risk another attack.

[twocrazycats]

I want to join the others in welcoming you. Of course none of us wants to have to be here, but since we are in this situation, it's wonderful to have others who truly understand and care and don't judge.

I am still learning about the disorder. My daughter is 18, almost 19, and has been unofficially diagnosed by her former therapist. I completely understand how you feel. I have felt the same way. It is so hard to know what to say, what not to say, when to say something, etc. One thing that has really helped with my daughter is, basically, letting go. What that means for me is that I have to let go of and grieve the daughter I thought I had and hoped to have, and deal with the one I actually do have. It helps for me to back off as much as possible. Since she lives at college most of the time, it's been easier to do that. Now she's home on Winter Break, and I'm just taking it a day at a time. But when she's not home, I try to back off and give her some control. For instance, if she was planning to come home for a weekend and then decides no, she wants to go back to school after only a few hours home, I'll just say okay. At first I felt hurt. But now I back off. I don't really call her while she's away. I leave it to her to call. What I do is text and say something like, "Hope you're having a good day. Love you." Sometimes that is like a signal to her to call. Sometimes not. But I believe she appreciates it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if it were my daughter saying she didn't want to go on a trip with me, what would work best would be to just say "okay" and leave it at that. Leave it to her to say more, if she wants. I wouldn't count on her going on a trip or giving a rational reason why not. Also, my daughter doesn't usually apologize. At first it horrified me and I fought it. Now I don't. If I do or say something I'm not happy with, I'll apologize to her. And leave it at that. I've noticed that sometimes she apologizes now.

Another thing is that my daughter does not show much empathy. I think she's so busy dealing with her own feelings that anyone else having feelings just puts her over the edge. So accepting that has also helped me. I look to other people for support, and with my daughter, I try to be like the "gray rock" I've seen mentioned, at least with regard to my own life and feelings.

For me, it's an ongoing learning experience with a lot of trial and error. It really helps to have this group for support.

2CC

[formflier]

 I am still in counselling and plan on continuing this for as long as I feel fragile.  

Here's a thought for you.

Once you no longer feel fragile, perhaps consider sticking around with T and work on "getting stronger" and "resilience".

Approaching these difficult relationships from a place of strength makes all the difference in the world!

A broad note about whether to "respond" or not. 

If you are evaluating your response based on "their response to your respond"...that's a loosing proposition


If you think through a response and send it based on your values and what you have learned is healthy (while leaving the other party to respond as they see fit), over time the "bad responses" will likely get less and less.

Said another way:  Make the response about you and not them.

Best,

FF

[Therese59]

My daughter also doesn’t apologize - she never has and I gave up on ever getting an apology years ago. I’m trying to let go as has been recommended - I can let go of trying to fix this. That’s on her and I have no recourse except to wait and hope one day she will want to talk to me again. As I said I do see her fairly regularly still but only because she has no one to babysit her child besides me. And that only makes this rift even more difficult. For me anyway. She seems to be coping fine. What I can’t let go of is trying to understand why - not why does she have this but why did she decide to end our relationship? What made this time different/worse than all the others. Does anyone have insight into that? Is it when other factors are also present? Example, she had just started a new job and could the stress of that have added to her usual emotional roller coaster and pushed her over the edge? Does the disorder even work like that? And I also can’t understand why after 3 weeks of being alienated, she seemed to “soften” and then a few days later it was like that never happened and in fact, she was even more rude than before she “softened” a bit. Why does that happen? These thoughts are what I can’t let go of - they keep running through my head like a loop - I come up with possible answers, I discount them, I replay the conversations trying to see if there was anything in those that could have made her revert and worsen - it’s hell. Every 3 days or so I manage to get a good nights sleep because I’m exhausted from almost no sleep the previous nights. I am doing my best and believe it or not, I am coping better today than I was when she first announced she was done with our family but at times it still feels like a nightmare I’ll never wake up from.

[Resiliant]

Hi Therese.

In your earlier post you said

" Some sites say respect what she’s asking which is to be left alone. That she’ll come back when she’s ready and not before. And maybe never.

I would still go with that.  Give her the space she wants.

I love my mother dearly.  I respect her to no end.  Would I want to take my vacation time to go on a trip with her?  Honestly no. 

If she seems to be coping fine as you said, why not let her go?

I feel like we as parents think that our relationship with our children is different from how they view it.

It hurts, for sure.  All I can say is "let it go..."  Like elsewhere that you have read, let her come back when she wants more.   I have found that the harder I try, the harder I fail.  Let her be the one that is trying.

All the best
 
R

[twocrazycats]

BPD involves boundaries, relationships and attachment. It seems there is a push-pull going on with your daughter, especially regarding the trip, and she needs you to back off of saying you want her to go. I am not a therapist, but just speaking from experience with my own daughter. When she says she's not going, I would just say "okay" and leave it at that. Then see what happens.

Sometimes my daughter acts like that when she is doing something/wants to do something that she knows I would disapprove of. Sometimes she acts like that when she is doing something that she herself disapproves of. But she can't blame herself, and she has to blame someone. So it's me. Sometimes she says something specifically to get me angry, so that whatever happens next, she can blame it on me. These are just some thoughts from what happens in our house. But if you just say okay and leave it, then the ball's in her court. She has nothing to blame you for. Of course, she'll dig up things from the past, but at some point, it will fall back on her. Now the thing is, I know pretty well what to say to my daughter. But, in the moment, I often just can't do it. And that's when we have our biggest problems. So I know very well that it's easier said than done.

I really do think that this fighting and then not wanting to speak with you has everything to do with her an nothing, or little, to do with you. So there's probably not much you can do, other than letting go, not throwing more fuel on the fire, acting as calm as possible, and practicing self care so that you really are calmer. I'm working on all of it myself.

2CC