Advice on new boundary needed

[Choosinghope]

Hi all,
I am fairly new to this site and to the idea of BPD in general. I have been wrestling with a current crisis with my uBPD mother, and I wanted to get some advice. I am sure that what I am going through will sound all too familiar for many of you. I posted a few days back here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341713.0) about the gist of what has been happening. Basically, I recently got married, and my mom seems to have gone "unhinged," as my dad put it. She is convinced that my new husband is controlling and manipulative and abusive, and he is keeping me from having any contact with her or my dad. This is so far from true that it is somewhere between heart-breaking and hysterical. If nothing else, I have continued to talk to my dad every week, just like I always have, and nothing she says will change that. In her last contact with me, she completely slammed my character with a bunch of false accusations (not anything new), accused my husband, told me about all the health-problems my "abusive marriage" has been causing her, and told me that she isn't interested in a relationship with me as long as I'm married to such a horrible man (I paraphrased that last part). Somewhere in there is the reality that I have put up new boundaries with her, especially since the engagement/marriage, as is necessary and normal. The status quo has changed, and she feels like she is loosing me. I get that. I wrote her a very kind letter explaining where my life is and what place she has in it. I was met by something horrible in response.

In my letter to her, I asked her to respect my space as I heal from how she hurt me. We have been completely NC since Thanksgiving now, which has been a huge breath of peace for me. My dad and I talked a few weeks back very openly, and he sees absolutely nothing rational in what she is doing or saying, which helps my mental health a bit. Here is my thinking: I love my mom, and I would so dearly love her to be a part of my life going forward. However, I will not choose her hurtful accusations over my very new marriage with my very stable, supportive husband. That is a boundary that I will not budge from. The way I see it, the only way that we will be able to have contact again is if she can acknowledge that my husband is not what she claims and not slander him anymore. Is that asking too much? Is there some other way of approaching this situation?

If that is a good boundary, should I wait for her to contact me, or should I be the one to start contact again? I feel so hurt that even seeing her name in a group message makes me feel sick to my stomach. Finally, how in the world do I go about bringing up my boundary concerning my husband without starting WWW IV (we've definitely already had WW III...)? When I told her in my letter that he is NOT any of the things she believes, she just countered with, "That's what anyone in an abusive situation would say. That just means that you no longer have a brain or can think for yourself. Wish I still knew my daughter, not this broken person." Thanks all for the help! I've had hard moments with her, but I've never felt quite so lost or broken as I do now. It is so incredibly encouraging knowing that I am not alone in this type of pain.

[kiwigal]

That is such toxic behaviour. Im so sorry!

I firstly wonder whether or not she is able to understand what you've explained?
My experience is BPD's can't.
Ie.. when you confront them with anything, they believe YOU are the problem. They cannot take culpability because to them, that feels like shame, and shame feels like death. So they genuinely delude themselves to be innocent.

I think it sounds really wise that you've created some space. Let some time pass and let things 'ease'. She is highly unlikely to come back with "sorry".. but give yourself some time to consider what YOU want things to look like going forward - in a way that stays in your circle of control and on your terms.

When you re-engage, do it in a way that feels like you have the power balance. So you could meet her in a cafe. You could set your rules, so if she starts raising things, you could just calmly say "I'm not going there mum, Id like to enjoy my time with you"

It's really really common too, to use the strategy of making the son or daughter in law, to be the perpetrator in the Karpman Triangle. And then make your life hell by positioning you as the middle man. Try to take a curious step outside of that by asking some 'middle ground' questions such as "hmm, why don't you talk to him directly" or "it would be disrespectful of me to pass this onto him. We're all adults here so I'll leave you to follow this up. Moving on.."
BPD's will 'hook' you on nonsense behaviour to validate their chaos. So if you can detach from the sting a little, it gives you space to get out of the game.

Also - Its infuriating isn't it, how much they simply cannot be reasoned with or understand Give yourself some gentle space to validate the anger and pain it creates and know, that you could have worded and said things %100 PERFECTLY and she still would not have got it.

Big hugs to you and praying this Christmas is full of the peace and wonderful joys you love, even while holding grief too.

[Choosinghope]

Thanks for the encouragement and the advice! We live 9 hours away, so our communication will naturally need to be through phone/email for the time being. That makes controlling things a bit easier on my end.

It's really really common too, to use the strategy of making the son or daughter in law, to be the perpetrator in the Karpman Triangle. And then make your life hell by positioning you as the middle man. Try to take a curious step outside of that by asking some 'middle ground' questions such as "hmm, why don't you talk to him directly" or "it would be disrespectful of me to pass this onto him. We're all adults here so I'll leave you to follow this up. Moving on.."
BPD's will 'hook' you on nonsense behaviour to validate their chaos. So if you can detach from the sting a little, it gives you space to get out of the game.

Is this fair to my husband? I've thought about trying to stop playing middle man here, but I've just never felt right about just handing the phone or message over and letting my husband take the brunt of all this. He should not have to apologize or defend against something he didn't do. The crazy thing is that she's never given ANY reasons to support her claim that he's so terrible--just that she had a feeling when she visited us. I've been taking the perspective of, he doesn't deserve this, and I want him to know that I am not taking her side in any of this. Is involving him in it somehow validating her paranoia? Thanks!

[GaGrl]

You can take yourself out of the Karpman Triangle without handing it off to your husband. The way to do that is to enforce the boundary of not discussing your husband with your mother. Just...he isn't up for discussion.

Are you still communicating with your father? His situation sounds similar to my husband when his ex-wife has gone rogue on (whatever the topic is in the moment), requiring U to tell his adult children that he can't explain their mother's irrational behavior.

If you can see and talk with your dad, and he is supportive, then my advice is just to let your mother's negative energy expend itself until she can "sit with" the consequences of her behavior. If you continue to communicate with your dad, she will see and feel that you are holding to your boundaries, and that there are consequences to her words and behavior. You may never get a clear and sincere apology, but you may get an indication that she will change or control herself in future. (Who knows -- my husband's ex never apologized for anything she did but finally asked if he could ever forgive her; she is incapable of articulating what she did that hurt so many people).I

Depending on how much negative energy your mother holds, this could take a while. We can support you in the meantime.

[Choosinghope]

That makes sense! Thanks for your explanation. I still have an excellent relationship with my dad. We've always been really close, as I've tended to be more of the "black" child with my mom. I think her recent attack on me has been hurting him more than it's hurt me honestly, and it might just be his last straw with her. He's tried for years to take the middle ground and tell us (I have sisters) not to take anything she says personally, apologize, forgive, etc. He's finally reached the point where he is done even trying to stand up for her and is thinking of leaving, from what he told me a couple weeks ago.

I think that your advice is just what I needed to hear. I will just wait it out and see how the cards land. Of course, I can totally see it turning into a "Fine, if you love your dad so much, I'm done with you" and walking away entirely scenario...but I guess that's her choice. I will work with my counselor on some good strategies for getting myself out of the Triangle if/when we have contact again. Thanks again!

[MamaLlamaDrama]

Hi there! This all sounds so familiar. My MIL is ubpd and hates me for "brainwashing" her son. My husband feels the same way as you. He wants to make it clear that she isn't allowed to speak to me or about me in the way she has been. Me communicating with her is not an option. We've tried that and it's only made things worse. We're still not sure the course of action we're going to take. Currently we're nc and my husband is trying to figure out how to move forward. His dad is completely enmeshed and enables his mom. You're lucky you have your dad's support and he sees what's happening. I'm sorry I can't offer advice as we are in the same exact spot at the moment but I'm sending you all the positive thoughts in the world. My husband is devastated about the state of his family. We've started therapy both separate and together. I highly recommend this. What is your husbands position in all of this?

[Choosinghope]

Hi MamaLlamaDrama,
It's kind of nice to know that I'm not the only person in this situation, but my heart is hurting for you and your husband. I know just how hard this all is, especially at Christmastime. I think it's awesome that you've both started therapy. I started it last month, and that has been a huge turning point in my relationship with my mom.

To answer your question, my husband has been really struggling with this, but doing his very best to be loving and supportive. He grew up in a very stable, functional home, and so seeing the depth of my family's dysfunction has kind of floored him. The first time he saw my mom blow up at me and try to tear me down, he couldn't understand what was happening or why I was letting it. He wanted me to just walk away and protect myself from her, which is the rational thing to do. I resisted and wanted to keep things the way they were, until this latest attack on my husband. I think that was the impetus I needed to finally put up boundaries and change the game, so to speak. Since I've been seeing the therapist, his role has changed more to just cheerleader and moral support instead of actively helping me work through everything. He feels so hurt and betrayed by my mom, and angry at her too in a way for trying to destroy our marriage 4 months in. But, he's more focused on helping me heal and get better than on his own feelings in the matter, from what I can tell. I still don't think he fully understands why I can't just walk away and not think about her/the situation anymore, but he's definitely making progress.

As for feeling stuck moving forward, I'm right there with you. My husband and I have decided to just wait it out and see how things unfold. I'm going to continue therapy, focus on my life right where I am, enjoy my job, and reach out to the rest of my FOO as best I can and keep my relationships with them alive. As much as I would love to try to "fix" things like I always have, I know that nothing I do or say will fix this. Best wishes to you this Christmas!