A spiked holiday

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My uBPDh has been especially surly these past couple of weeks. I don't know if it's a holiday thing or what. He's done things to unintentionally but recklessly destroy things that are important to me: dropping something on the cheesecake I made while it was cooling in the fridge, cracking a glass menorah (by hammering it with a hammer to get the wax out after I accidentally let the candles burn down too low - after I begged him not to do it). Of course he got angry with me for getting upset about it, calling me a "psycho" and saying he couldn't stand being around me because I was so "disrespectful" and "combative." On Christmas Eve, we were supposed to watch holiday movies. We watched one and then he grabbed the remote and put on his usual automotive YouTube videos. When I protested and said we agreed to watch holiday movies, he painted me as disagreeable and controlling and rolled his eyes and said I that I "never shut up." So, I went upstairs and he started begging me to come back down and said he'd put on something I liked. So, I came back downstairs. Last night, I woke up at 2a.m. and he wasn't in bed. The TV was still on, so I went downstairs. He was nowhere to be found, so I called him on my phone to find out where he was. An angry "What?" was his lovely answer. He said he was in the garage working on the car, but the lights were off. He often has panic attacks in there with the lights off and will stay there for hours, so I suspected that's where he was. Of course, he was nasty with me on the phone and I just hung up on him and went back to sleep. I think he came to bed like an hour later.
I thought I'd get some relief and peace, not being at work for nearly two weeks, but if this continues, I will have to do something else. I'm getting a cold on top of it all, so that's fun. I can only hope he'll be out working most of the days so I won't have to deal with his sour, rude, controlling self. I'm so sick of this. Every day is a new battle.

[WitzEndWife]

My uBPDh has been especially surly these past couple of weeks. I don't know if it's a holiday thing or what. He's done things to unintentionally but recklessly destroy things that are important to me: dropping something on the cheesecake I made while it was cooling in the fridge, cracking a glass menorah (by hammering it with a hammer to get the wax out after I accidentally let the candles burn down too low - after I begged him not to do it). Of course he got angry with me for getting upset about it, calling me a "psycho" and saying he couldn't stand being around me because I was so "disrespectful" and "combative." On Christmas Eve, we were supposed to watch holiday movies. We watched one and then he grabbed the remote and put on his usual automotive YouTube videos. When I protested and said we agreed to watch holiday movies, he painted me as disagreeable and controlling and rolled his eyes and said I that I "never shut up." So, I went upstairs and he started begging me to come back down and said he'd put on something I liked. So, I came back downstairs. Last night, I woke up at 2a.m. and he wasn't in bed. The TV was still on, so I went downstairs. He was nowhere to be found, so I called him on my phone to find out where he was. An angry "What?" was his lovely answer. He said he was in the garage working on the car, but the lights were off. He often has panic attacks in there with the lights off and will stay there for hours, so I suspected that's where he was. Of course, he was nasty with me on the phone and I just hung up on him and went back to sleep. I think he came to bed like an hour later.
I thought I'd get some relief and peace, not being at work for nearly two weeks, but if this continues, I will have to do something else. I'm getting a cold on top of it all, so that's fun. I can only hope he'll be out working most of the days so I won't have to deal with his sour, rude, controlling self. I'm so sick of this. Every day is a new battle.

[formflier]

by hammering it with a hammer  after I begged him not to do it).

This seems to speak volumes to me. 

What message do you "hear" in it?

Best,

FF

[PeteWitsend]

holidays with pwBPDs are often agonizing... lots or threads about that on the board.

I think the focus on being with family, being happy, and warm feelings generally really triggers them. 

the worst one I endured lasted two weeks and ended a couple days after xmas.  during that time, it was angry outbursts from her on a daily basis, and angry text messages while I was at work.

 she also threw out all the presents my family members sent our kids, and sent lots of nasty messages to them.  I had to call them and tell them to ignore her, and that they hadn't done anything wrong 

[WitzEndWife]

This seems to speak volumes to me. 

What message do you "hear" in it?

I hear resentment and rage in it, but that could just be my knowing him. He has a thing against my mother (because she triggers his abandonment issues) and has gone just up to the edge of anti-Semitism, making some off-color stereotyping comments about her. My mom is so, so kind and generous. She would do anything for family. Even after he has been so horrible to her face, she sent him a box of oranges from Florida, which he has let sit in the box they came in, not consuming one. Maybe it all comes from his rage against her. It breaks my heart.

[WitzEndWife]

PeteWitsend, that must have been a horrible, embarrassing experience. We always kind of get into it, but he's been especially awful this time around.

He has been on about me having a kid for the past six months or so, like really pushing. He says he's lonely and he thinks it's embarrassing that he is in his 40s with no kids. He has a twisted sense of reality where that is concerned - he thinks that childless couples are "pathetic" and "strange." He keeps telling me my only purpose in life is to procreate. I told him I wasn't bringing a child into this world in an unstable setting and that was my choice. Still, he keeps pushing and being nasty and condescending toward me about it.

[formflier]

  Still, he keeps pushing and being nasty and condescending toward me about it.

Back to my other quote.  Take this and put it on steroids.

It's been a while since I've thought about your story.  One thing I remember is the implicit threat of violence (perhaps sometimes more than implicit). 

I will break your stuff
I will scare the dogs
I will scare you

Am I remembering your story correctly?

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

FF -

He has been intimidating in the past, but it's not something that is common. When he rages out most of the time it's against himself. But when he does get that upset, he does break things. I notice that dishes are missing sometimes and think, "Oh, he must have smashed that when I wasn't around." It's not great, but I'm not sure that it's all directed towards me, at least not directly. Maybe there's some subconscious getting back at me by breaking things I've paid for, but I don't know. At any rate, yes, he has been violent in the past and although he's never hurt me or the dogs, he's definitely intimidated us at his worst. But then he adamantly insists that he would never hurt us.

[Cat Familiar]

He’s been irritable, reckless with your things, rude to your mother, and pushing you to have a baby. How are you feeling about your relationship with him?

[formflier]

Does he have a job now?  Seems like I remember he was a realtor for a bit then quit suddenly. 

What percentage of the financial burden does he carry?

Best,

FF

[PeteWitsend]

FF -

He has been intimidating in the past, but it's not something that is common. When he rages out most of the time it's against himself. But when he does get that upset, he does break things. I notice that dishes are missing sometimes and think, "Oh, he must have smashed that when I wasn't around." It's not great, but I'm not sure that it's all directed towards me, at least not directly. Maybe there's some subconscious getting back at me by breaking things I've paid for, but I don't know. At any rate, yes, he has been violent in the past and although he's never hurt me or the dogs, he's definitely intimidated us at his worst. But then he adamantly insists that he would never hurt us.

Well, expect all these behaviors to get worse if you add an infant to the mix.

as far as him breaking things on purpose, I definitely could see a pwBPD doing things like that to "punish" the non.  The lengths they go to create conflict or petty spiteful actions should never be discounted.

I felt like my XW was always pretty careless with my things, or things I paid for, and I was hesitant to mention it, as I knew she was hoping for just such a comment for me, so she could explode about how I shouldn't care she broke XYZ or whatever, because it was "cheap anyway" or paradoxically claim I was materialistic for complaining about a physical object.

I found this strangely unsettling... I suppose because it was a physical manifestation of anger from her, as opposed to the normal verbal ones.

[WitzEndWife]

He’s been irritable, reckless with your things, rude to your mother, and pushing you to have a baby. How are you feeling about your relationship with him?

Not great. But he is going away to school in a couple of months, so that will give me some time to work through this with my therapist. I am not happy with him, that's for sure.

[WitzEndWife]

Does he have a job now?  Seems like I remember he was a realtor for a bit then quit suddenly. 

What percentage of the financial burden does he carry?

Best,

FF

He is Ubering pretty much most of the time now. He pays for his car, his credit card, and for some of the groceries and most of the household items and car maintenance. Even though he works a lot, you can't make that much with Uber.

As far as work goes, he's enrolling in school out of state for a special kind of vehicle maintenance. Since I have known him, cars have been a passion of his. He wasn't passionate about real estate. He obsessively watches YouTube videos about cars and car maintenance. He photographs cars on the street. He goes to car races or watches NASCAR on TV. So, I think this will be a good move for him and that he will be able to make okay money once he gets out of this special program.

So, we'll see. I think he's finally getting more responsible and growing up a bit where that is concerned. He does want to do something with his life, so that's a positive sign. I don't feel like I'm pushing him into this like I was with real estate.

[WitzEndWife]

I felt like my XW was always pretty careless with my things, or things I paid for, and I was hesitant to mention it, as I knew she was hoping for just such a comment for me, so she could explode about how I shouldn't care she broke XYZ or whatever, because it was "cheap anyway" or paradoxically claim I was materialistic for complaining about a physical object.

I found this strangely unsettling... I suppose because it was a physical manifestation of anger from her, as opposed to the normal verbal ones.

I definitely see the rage come out in weird physical ways like that, where you can't say they did something INTENTIONALLY, but my stuff is always the stuff that gets broken or ripped or stained or whatever, and he treats his stuff like it's made of gossamer and eggshells. So, there is a difference for sure. Also, I notice that when there's an event that I want to go to, or it's with my friends or family, he'll drag his feet getting there and we're always late. When it's something he wants to get to, he's ready like an hour early. Things like that are super covert, but really subversive when you think about it.

[formflier]

Is he going to be a mechanic?

What is he going to do with his schooling?

Best,

FF

[AskingWhy]

WEW, I have found that my uBPD H is very careless with things that don't belong to him or his adult children.

He was once in a frenzy of cleaning, and he broke the handle of one of my china teacups from my cherished collection of antiques.  How can one be careless when cleaning porcelain.

He then glued the handle back on with tons of glue oozing from the cracks.  I found this before the glue set and immediately wiped off the excess before it dried.  My heart was racing.  

Upset, I shouted at H, asking my why he did such a sh*tty job of repairing something he knew was precious to me.  H gave me a blank look, then became enraged and defensive.

I had to realise that it did not even register for him to care.  I was simply something of mine and not his or children.  If it was something belonging to his children, a) it would never have been broken, or b) he would have taken the utmost care in fixing it, or taken it to have the repair done professionally.

Just as pwNPD or BPD seem to regard people as like furniture and can look right past them.  My uBPD H is a high functioning BPD with many NPD features.

I agree that pwBPD use holidays as triggers where they can project their rage, pain and upset.  pwBPD usually come from abusive or dysfunctional parents, and holidays were unhappy.   That's why holidays bring up so many bad memories for pwBPD.  BPDs really don't have a good sense of chronology, and their lives are like an unhappy jumble of bad thoughts and memories.

[Notwendy]

Will he live with you or be living on his own out of state ?

This doesn’t excuse his behavior but if there’s a change on the horizon - school, living somewhere else- that could be contributing.

One boundary for things you value is to keep them where he can’t get them. If he doesn’t respect your holiday celebrations - then imho do them with friends, family - away from him. You have freedom of religion. He doesn’t get to ruin yours.

[WitzEndWife]

Is he going to be a mechanic?

What is he going to do with his schooling?

Yes, he will be a mechanic, highly specialized in one area of the industry as well. They can make $60K right out of school in some places, so that's promising.

[WitzEndWife]

Will he live with you or be living on his own out of state ?

This doesn’t excuse his behavior but if there’s a change on the horizon - school, living somewhere else- that could be contributing.

One boundary for things you value is to keep them where he can’t get them. If he doesn’t respect your holiday celebrations - then imho do them with friends, family - away from him. You have freedom of religion. He doesn’t get to ruin yours.

I think the change could be contributing. He has been having more panic attacks out in the garage. He just sits there in the dark for hours.

He will be living on his own there, with one of the dogs, which he insists on bringing. He will have to find a way to pay for all of this himself, either through loans or otherwise. I think that's contributing to his anxiety.

I will keep him away from my valuables from now on. I think he looks down on my religion, even though he will participate in the blessings. It's like a novelty to him. He thinks Jewish people are all comedic stereotypes from Hollywood. It makes me feel bad.

[formflier]

Has he worked as a mechanic before?

If I remember right, he has done YouTube videos and perhaps made some money there.

What seems different about this school/work plan?

What seems similar to last plans?

Best

FF

[WitzEndWife]

Has he worked as a mechanic before?

If I remember right, he has done YouTube videos and perhaps made some money there.

What seems different about this school/work plan?

What seems similar to last plans?

He has worked on our cars and friends' cars before and had a detailing business. He has also done YouTube videos on cars.

What's different is that he is genuinely passionate about this plan because he is legitimately obsessed with cars and has been since I've known him. He thirsts for knowledge about them and spends hours working on them, so I know it's something he would be able to pursue. Before, he felt he had to do a job where he wore a suit and thought that working a blue collar job would somehow be "beneath" him - so he did nothing or took the odd writing or photography gig. Then real estate. He hated real estate because he had to sell, sell, sell to people and because the pressure was so high.The big challenge for him is working with other people, because when he splits, it's bad.

As for the similarities, well, it's a big undertaking and he has self doubts and anxiety. He keeps worrying about failing and being too old to start something new.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s ideal that he’s pursuing something he’s genuinely interested in. The time apart will give you some breathing room to evaluate how you feel about this relationship. And it will force him to take more responsibility for himself. He may even have an epiphany about all the things you do for him, but don’t hold your breath that it will be lasting.

[WitzEndWife]

That's what I'm thinking, too, Cat. I really cannot wait until he is able to leave here. I think it will give me some clarity. He's been either absurdly clingy or prickly as all get out lately. Last night, we watched a movie together on the sofa, and then as we were going to bed, he started watching angry political videos on his phone. I've told him several times that I don't want videos in bed, especially angry political ones. I told him to put his headphones on if he wanted to watch the video. He got angry with me for reinforcing the boundary, of course, and complained that I never stopped talking and that he couldn't wait to get away from me (his FAVORITE thing to say when splitting). Then, about five minutes later, he got up and then texted me from the other room a bunch of photos of me and him, with me smiling, and then a message that said that I never smiled like that anymore and that it was time to move on. I messaged, "Well, if that's what you want, I can't stop you." He then said (as always), "No, it's what YOU want." I said nothing and then when he came back to bed, he brought it up again. Then, when I wanted to discuss it seriously, he backpedaled and said it wasn't that big of a deal. Then I asked, "Then, why would you send me that message? What were you hoping to get out of that?" He said he didn't know, but that he just felt like I wasn't interested in him anymore. I told him I wasn't happy, but it wasn't 100 percent about him, and it wasn't about anything he was - it was more about the constant fighting and lack of emotional support. Like, he doesn't want to hear about my problems at work. He calls it "gossip" if he doesn't want to hear it - even though it's only about interactions between me and my boss. So, I feel like I can't talk to him about anything. And he feels like he can't talk to me about anything, because he wants to talk about politics - but only about what he thinks and his perspective, not about mine. As soon as I state a fact that he doesn't agree with, boom, he gets upset.

I do feel were at a sort of impasse. I don't know if anything will change. I think he's pretty set in his ways now. Maybe his going away will be the push we need to go our separate ways. Who knows?

[formflier]

  I really cannot wait until he is able to leave here. 

I've followed your story for a while.  It seems to me you have felt this way for a long time.  Do I remember right that he went to his Mom's for a while and you loved it, considered telling him to stay there.

How has the quoted feeling changed over the past year or so?  What does that tell you?

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

FF, I mean, it tells me that I'm really not happy being with him and that I don't get much out of it.

But the codependent in me is SO afraid of the devaluation phase that I keep things going. He has this way of hitting me right at my trauma points, where I feel digusting and rejected and unloveable, and I really can't stand feeling like that. It creates panic in me. I'm not so much afraid of being alone, although being alone can be scary at times, but it's the whole breakup that I'm afraid of, and what he will say and do.

[formflier]

So...is it accurate to say that the relationship continues because of fear? 

Or is it more accurate to say you want to end the relationship, yet fear prevents it?

I may be overstating...please tweak.

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

So...is it accurate to say that the relationship continues because of fear? 

Or is it more accurate to say you want to end the relationship, yet fear prevents it?

I may be overstating...please tweak.

Essentially, yes. I mean, I love him, but I'm not IN love with him, as much as I try. His personality 75 percent of the time is abrasive. He's immature, combative, angry, bitter, dislikes most people, rude, controlling, mean, reckless, obnoxious, and inconsiderate most of the time. The person I fell in love with is rare if not gone. That person was vulnerable, mild mannered, thoughtful, sensitive, supportive, and kind. If I'm not getting that person back, what's the point?

I realize that my fears are irrational to a point, but they freeze me. It's something I'm working on, but there are so many things going on in my life right now, there is only so much time I can devote to it in therapy. My boss is BPD as well. Ugh.

[formflier]

He's immature, combative, angry, bitter, dislikes most people, rude, controlling, mean, reckless, obnoxious, and inconsiderate most of the time. The person I fell in love with is rare if not gone. That person was vulnerable, mild mannered, thoughtful, sensitive, supportive, and kind. If I'm not getting that person back, what's the point?

I think, with some tweaking from us and the wisdom of time, this is something you should say to him with a choice.

That you are walking down the road of being better at all those things and if he is willing to do the work, that you would like him to come with you, and that you will respect his decision should he want to continue being (list of iffy qualities).

That either way you wish him well.

Best,

FF

(how long is he going to be away at school?  After school is he certified or is that a different process?)

[Cat Familiar]

But the codependent in me is SO afraid of the devaluation phase that I keep things going. He has this way of hitting me right at my trauma points, where I feel digusting and rejected and unloveable, and I really can't stand feeling like that. It creates panic in me. I'm not so much afraid of being alone, although being alone can be scary at times, but it's the whole breakup that I'm afraid of, and what he will say and do.

What's the worst possible thing that could happen should he trigger you to feel unlovable? What's the worst possible thing he could do?

This seems to be at the heart of your impasse.

[formflier]

Essentially, yes. I mean, I love him, but I'm not IN love with him, as much as I try.

So...my understanding is that it's normal for the "in love" thing to fluctuate over time.  It certainly has for me.

I'm really curious about what you do to "try". 

It's one thing to do things that normal couples do and generally enjoy.  It's another to try to manipulate your own feelings...or maybe better said "force" your own feelings.

Any of this ringing true?

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

So...my understanding is that it's normal for the "in love" thing to fluctuate over time.  It certainly has for me.

I'm really curious about what you do to "try". 

It's one thing to do things that normal couples do and generally enjoy.  It's another to try to manipulate your own feelings...or maybe better said "force" your own feelings.

Any of this ringing true?

I've tried to see if my feelings would return, see him in different ways, or do things together, but nothing is working. I haven't felt "in love" for years. I think his meanness killed it.

As for school, it's 18 months long and he will need to take an exam, but then he will be certified and they will help him find a job anywhere.