The parental 'fair' dilemma... does anyone else have this issue?

[kiwigal]

My MIL is BPD and my FIL is enabling. Very. They are a dysfunctional unit and have no room for my feelings. The whole in law family have rejected me and I am pretty alienated.

My parents and family, although normal and not perfect, are wonderful and very supportive.

In addition, family, connection and my faith, are core values.

However my husband seems to default, at times, to 'keeping things fair'. At times this has hurt my parents because his parents are competitive with mine.
We had counselling for this years ago and the counsellor said to my husband then: "There can't be one rule for both because they aren't the same relationship"

This has cropped up again and I'm feeling a mixture of overwhelmed feelings: invalidation, anger, distrust... a wanting to get out.
I feel trapped at times in this toxic game and I struggle to understand why my husband feels the need to play it?
But more than that, sometimes I wonder if I want to keep on being married. I feel so guilty saying that, because he himself, is lovely in soo many ways. But I also feel like the dysfunction affects his ability to perceive and respond to genuine connection or to truly validate how I feel. I feel like for him to validate how I feel, would cost him too much.

I am wondering... can anyone help me understand what the obstacle is, for him? What is it like to be in his shoes? What drives the 'fair' game? What is a way I could ask for what I need, while validating his needs to?

[Notwendy]

Can you elaborate on this ? My H also has an odd sense of fair and unfair between us. This is around household tasks and money. I think it’s important to be fair and respectful too when it comes to these things but his balance somehow needs to be skewed in his favor to be “fair”. I think that over scorekeeper isn’t good for a marriage and pay less attention to it.

My mom has BPD and my father was the enabler. From my point of view the relationship was unfair and focused on her. From her point of view- she is a victim.

Perhaps it is a sense of victimhood on the part of the person that drives the need to be “fair” for your H? Perhaps this is his own defense for dealing with his moms feelings ? If things are strictly fair between both families it might be easier for him to manage his mothers complaints?

My Hs parents don’t have BPD but in his family there was competition among the siblings and I think he brought this into marriage. Whoever got more is the winner. That doesn’t work well in a marriage.

[Methuen]

Hi kiwigal

However my husband seems to default, at times, to 'keeping things fair'

The fairness thing drives me up a wall.  I find it on the childish side personally.  My uBPD mother has been obsessed with "keeping things fair" her whole life.  Problem is her idea of fair is sometimes just silly, sometimes distorted, and like your MC said (years ago), it doesn't work because every every person and situation has different needs, and so what is fair for one person in one situation may be irrelevant or unfair for the other person.   But I long ago accepted that I would never be able to change my uBPD mom's "sense of keeping things fair".  I don't know what drives the "fair" game, except that in my mom's case I believe it came from extreme deprivation - of the necessities of life (food, clothing, warmth), of safety, and of love, in her childhood.  I can see how survivors of that kind of deprivation would value "fairness" as adults.  I'm not sure if any of that would appy to your H's need for fairness.  I'm sure there are a lot of different reasons for the "fairness" value.

I feel trapped at times in this toxic game and I struggle to understand why my husband feels the need to play it?

I can empathize with the frustration that must come with that.  Do you currently have a T you can discuss these issues with?  It sounds like this problem is playing into the dynamic of your marriage in a major way.

But I also feel like the dysfunction affects his ability to perceive and respond to genuine connection or to truly validate how I feel. I feel like for him to validate how I feel, would cost him too much.

There is a lot to unpack in that paragraph.  Can you tell us more (give examples), or discuss it with a T if you have one?  

But more than that, sometimes I wonder if I want to keep on being married.

I am sorry you are going through this.

My parents and family, although normal and not perfect, are wonderful and very supportive.

I'm glad to hear this.  It's a huge positive to have that support.

As an aside, I'm a kiwi fanatic.  I eat them like most people eat an apple, just to keep alive the memories of a beautiful family holiday in kiwi land.

[GaGrl]

NotWendy and Methuen make great points.

Is your marriage your greatest concern right now?

Are you seeing your husband struggle to make things "fair" between your sets of parents or are you seeing him placate and after to his parents to avoid negative BPD behaviors by your MIL? Who is running the show here -- you and your husband, or one of the sets of parents?

Can you give some examples of "fair" that concerned you?

[kiwigal]

Can you elaborate on this ? My H also has an odd sense of fair and unfair between us. This is around household tasks and money. I think it’s important to be fair and respectful too when it comes to these things but his balance somehow needs to be skewed in his favor to be “fair”. I think that over scorekeeper isn’t good for a marriage and pay less attention to it.

My mom has BPD and my father was the enabler. From my point of view the relationship was unfair and focused on her. From her point of view- she is a victim.

Perhaps it is a sense of victimhood on the part of the person that drives the need to be “fair” for your H? Perhaps this is his own defense for dealing with his moms feelings ? If things are strictly fair between both families it might be easier for him to manage his mothers complaints?

My Hs parents don’t have BPD but in his family there was competition among the siblings and I think he brought this into marriage. Whoever got more is the winner. That doesn’t work well in a marriage.

I think you are right. It seems to come from him needing to manage his mothers complaints. She has often made comparisons as a way to even out the playing field and weaken resolve on boundaries. It has created some unhealthy dynamics in our marriage

[kiwigal]

Hi kiwigal

The fairness thing drives me up a wall.  I find it on the childish side personally.  My uBPD mother has been obsessed with "keeping things fair" her whole life.  Problem is her idea of fair is sometimes just silly, sometimes distorted, and like your MC said (years ago), it doesn't work because every every person and situation has different needs, and so what is fair for one person in one situation may be irrelevant or unfair for the other person.   But I long ago accepted that I would never be able to change my uBPD mom's "sense of keeping things fair".  I don't know what drives the "fair" game, except that in my mom's case I believe it came from extreme deprivation - of the necessities of life (food, clothing, warmth), of safety, and of love, in her childhood.  I can see how survivors of that kind of deprivation would value "fairness" as adults.  I'm not sure if any of that would appy to your H's need for fairness.  I'm sure there are a lot of different reasons for the "fairness" value.

I can empathize with the frustration that must come with that.  Do you currently have a T you can discuss these issues with?  It sounds like this problem is playing into the dynamic of your marriage in a major way.

There is a lot to unpack in that paragraph.  Can you tell us more (give examples), or discuss it with a T if you have one?  

I am sorry you are going through this.

I'm glad to hear this.  It's a huge positive to have that support.

As an aside, I'm a kiwi fanatic.  I eat them like most people eat an apple, just to keep alive the memories of a beautiful family holiday in kiwi land.

Your empathy is just soo healing for me. Thank you! My husbands mother has spent a lifetime of playing 'court room' with her children. When things don't go her way, she has an incredible memory of words and things said, and is very manipulative at using that against you. So my husband has learnt to make sure all your facts are right, and everything is 'fair' as a means of coping. Unfortunately, when that coping strategy is in place, there isn't a lot of room for engaging empathically or feeling with a person - not to mention he has never had that modelled to him growing up. Sometimes these are the dynamics of being married to the child of a person with BPD that you have to work through huh? Its hard

[kiwigal]

NotWendy and Methuen make great points.

Is your marriage your greatest concern right now?

Are you seeing your husband struggle to make things "fair" between your sets of parents or are you seeing him placate and after to his parents to avoid negative BPD behaviors by your MIL? Who is running the show here -- you and your husband, or one of the sets of parents?

Can you give some examples of "fair" that concerned you?

Thanks so much for seeking to understand. In this situation, it is that my parents are coming with us on an overseas trip. We went in 2013 with his parents.

On this trip, his parents will be there too (visiting their own family) and so we're including them on a lot of our plans also.

For one leg of the trip we've been invited to a European country for a week by a mutual family friend who I get on very well with. She invited us and my parents to show us around and also to meet some very dear key people in her life.

Recently my husband made the remark "well its only fair we invite my parents too".

I didn't really engage with it because I saw through it: the court room over the feelings, ie, being right over being felt. I guess it comes as a default coping strategy when you've had a lifetime of dealing with BPD.

For myself, Ive spent the past 18 months finding ways, with the help of counselling, to disengage from the role Ive held in his family - my counsellor called it "Cinderella" role . Ive been seeking to put some healthy space between their expectations and assumptions, and what I need.

So many times, while Ive been at my absolute lowest, sobbing - my parents have held me. His family however have only further alienated and punished both of us for speaking up at all and my husband is positioned as weak and not really 'man' or Godly enough. This has been going on for years and most recently my brother in law rang me and grilled me, blaming me for creating issues. (The issue I 'created' was that I asked my sister in law, a year ago, that although I knew she didn't intend to hurt me, that I was wondering if she was interested in hearing how I felt about what she said about me... you can guess how that went down and for a year, I heard NOTHING from them except this recent call to grill me).

However,  connection and family are significant values to me. In light of that, including his parents for any of the time, feels huge on my part and I was gutted that my husband didn't acknowledge that for me but rather engaged in the 'fair' game instead.

What I really needed to hear from him was "Your parents have been so supportive and I love them for it. And I so appreciate you are both wanting and desiring of family connection and wanting to include my parents, in light of what has gone on for you and I want to assure you that your feelings matter to me"

Most of the time I am really good at communicating to him, what I need of him. Ie, telling him that those are the words I need. But seeing him 'default' again, under the heat, reinforced a deep sense of insecurity in me: that when it comes to the crunch, he isn't able to take my side because he doesn't have the tools to disengage. It's not that he doesn't want to, I don't think.. but that he doesn't know how?

However, after 16 years and hours and hours of therapy myself, I don't want that to be my problem anymore. I guess Im feeling like Im at my end of trying and I long to be free.
As a Christian, it feels like an impossible place to be in right now.

[GaGrl]

Thank you for expanding on the Fairness issue -- that helps clarify. This really does sound as if the issues are now settling in on your marriage.

I think everyone wants to feel as if our partner is our #1 supporter and will put our needs above those of other family members, friends, and work demands. I know I do -- fortunately, my husband comes through, even after years of negative experiences with his uBPD/BPD former wife and the issues that continued to raise with their adult children.

You say you have been in therapy? What about your husband? And have you had marriage counseling together?

I think you are really on to something important when you say he wants to, but doesn't know how.