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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: My wife has filed for divorce Part 3  (Read 1158 times)
Stillhopeful4
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« on: January 02, 2020, 10:28:26 AM »

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341785.0

Here is the thing.  If she would have never texted my DD23 on the Monday before Christmas and ask her to get the rest of my kids and grandkids over to my cousins house to take the "annual christmas pic" (mind you this is something I have been doing with my cousin and my kids for 16 years, well before her, and it's always been done at my house) none of this would have happened.  Then she Spanish inquisitioned my kids at her little gathering a few days after Christmas about where I was Friday night and who I was with and if I was talking to my cousin again and when they answered she had to leave the house and was hysterical crying.  The kids said she made them VERY VERY uncomfortable and I don't think they will be doing that again.  My daughter is very upset with her that she used all this and lied to her lawyer that "I keep contacting her employer", the thing is I sent that one text 6 weeks ago...nothing since...and it's not like I contacted her place of business (like she claims I did)...I sent one text to my friend of 20+ years to her personal cell phone, which I have had the number forever and nothing I said had anything to do with her "work".  I was reaching out to a friend, who happens to be her "boss", but is WAY more than a boss to her as they spend almost every weekend together and "boss" has said she's adopting W (jokingly) to make her part of the family like one of her kids.  So the fact that W is spinning this stuff out of control to make me look like the bad guy is really hurting my kids and they are seeing her true colors and don't want much to do with her anymore anyway.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 12:48:42 PM by Cat Familiar » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2020, 11:43:17 AM »

You can see how they are being put in the middle by both of you... and I'm not casting opinion as to whether you are wrong for maintaining the type of relationship you are with your kids... HOWEVER... maybe you should encourage them to demarcate their own boundaries with your W and with you. I stress this is not about taking sides, and I REALLY WANT TO STRESS THAT, but it is not at all healthy them being information go-between you and your W, whichever way the info river is flowing.

I would start a dialogue with them, "Kids, I am unhappy about this situation (NO BLAME ON WHO CAUSED IT), what rules can you decide between yourselves to extricate yourselves from this situation." Your kids may be grown up but they still have emotions which will be torn in multiple different directions. Allow them that. If your W chooses not to play by their rules of engagement, she might suffer the consequences they stipulate.
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2020, 01:13:11 PM »

I don't really talk about my W to my boys.  And all they will do, not by my asking, is if she sends them a picture of DOG1 they will show it to me because they know how much I miss him.  My daughter I vent to her when she asks me what's going on.  I never ask her questions about W.  However my daughter is very kind and when she talks to W, W is able to manipulate DD23.  For instance, W told DD23 she is not going after alimony or the house, DD23 then asked her why did you get said hot shot lawyer if you aren't going after anything and already had your separation agreement typed out and ready to file, W gave her some REALLY bad excuse that she got the lawyer because she didn't know how to do it (mind you W's best friend is a divorce lawyer so that's a lie), my lawyer says she is coming after everything...my DD said when she sees paper from lawyer saying such she's going to go off on W and end her relationship with her and the kids for bold face lying to her.
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2020, 02:37:52 PM »

I might suggest an alternative view to consider.

You say would like to reconnect with your wife.

If that's true, then don't mess with her relationship with your daughter - just don't make your daughter pick sides (with you) - and let you daughter tell you what she wants to tell you and hear it wisely, but don't react emotionally.

Why close your last communication line (just don't abuse it)?

Why try tamper with your wife's relationship with others... especially after her reaction to consulting her boss? Your daughter seems to be handling it OK.

I fully agree with Enabler - don't use her as a conduit to your wife.





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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2020, 08:33:04 AM »

I have no intention of messing with my DD23's relationship with W.  The divorce papers came in the mail yesterday.  DD23 was so hurt to see W was going after the house and alimony and that W has lied to her.  I don't know if she messaged her or talked to her, as I didn't ask.  I really try not to be involved with their relationship.  But DD mentioned W is starting to show her true colors and DD doesn't like to be lied to.

SH4

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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2020, 10:35:47 AM »

You are doing the right thing by not placing D in the middle of you two.

Sorry to hear the D papers came through, these are tough milestones and I know it feels like another notch down. But, at the same time I guessing you are getting a sense of the tunnel having an end. Please keep hope for a brighter future... what that future is doesn't matter so much, what matters is that you won't stay in this position forever, things will change, things have to change and you have choices in how they change.

Keep staying smart, keep staying wise and use that wisdom to make positive choices.

Enabler xx
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2020, 12:12:17 PM »

Thank you Enabler... trying...every day I'm trying!
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2020, 07:20:48 AM »

sorry I have been missing in action, I had no access to internet for a while. SH4, I am just checking in to let you know I am still rooting for you. Some endings are new beginnings, some people give you back yourself. So wishing you well and the very best of a happy new year to you! Hugs, Khib
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 09:53:34 AM »

Hi Khibomsis,

Thank you!  I'm making little changes every day that are helping me cope with what's going on and every day I'm feeling a bit stronger.  I had a lovely weekend.  All the kids/grandkids were over fri/sat and sat/sun I was by myself.  I got caught up on house work and laundry and was able to meet up with some friends for lunch and a nice long chat and then I took my dogs for a walk because we had lovely weather.  I use to dread the weekends, but now I welcome them.  That's progress for me!  Thanks again for checking in on me!  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

SH4
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2020, 06:22:28 AM »

Update:  I need some advice. 

She reached out yesterday after 2 months with no contact.  There have been several issues with her mom and the apartment.  Anyway we talked for awhile but then I had to go when my son was getting into the car.  He hung up abruptly and I texted her and said I hope we can talk again some time.  Then she kinda went off and said what's the point and I said I know I'm not perfect and I never will be and I know I said some horrible things that hurt you and I'm sorry.  She replies with "I'm so sick of you playing the victim and blaming me for all of this...all of this just screams SH4 always the victim" 

I'm like I'm not playing anything I was just apologizing for calling  you the c word.  And she replies..."do you even read what you write...it's so contradictory."

So I went back and read it...I didn't know what to say...how do I validate that?

SH4
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2020, 06:39:12 AM »

Could you give us a little more detail on the phone call, how you came to be on the phone call, did she sound annoyed when you had to go, why you sent the message... basically how did things change from being connective to her blowing up the phone?
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 07:19:45 AM »

She called me because her mom has called me 6 times in the past 12 days about "issues" at the apartment.  The latest issue yesterday was something we have had multiple conversations with her mom about and her mom claims she doesn't remember.  So when her mom called me yesterday I said please ask W about this conversation as I'm not allowed to contact her.  So her mom called her and W called me last night and it started a little heated...she's like why are you telling my mom to call me to fix things...you are the landlord and you need to fix things.  I explained I wasn't asking her to call W to fix it, I was asking to her to call wife to remind her we had this conversation about this pipe many times and her mom was claiming we didn't.  Anyway the convo was a little heated at first but then she seems to cool down a bit.  I tried to remain very neutral and not show much emotions in my voice as not to inflame things.  She said she couldn't believe I called her the C word..I said I couldn't believe she got pitbull lawyer and was going for 1/2 my house and alimony when she said she would never do that.  She claims she's not and I must be lying because that's not on her paperwork.  I just let that go.  We talked about DOG1 and that I would like to see him.  She said no because she thinks I will "steal" him.  She wants the rest of her stuff from my basement and I told her she could come anytime.  I said I know you don't want to see me so I can put it in the garage if you tell me when you are coming, she said that wouldn't be good enough that she wanted to go thru everything in the house one last time.  I said that was fine, but I would want to be there for that.  Then she started crying and said she never wanted this and she only wanted to love me and the kids...and talked about how much she is hurting and how me calling her that name really really hurt her.  She seemed to soften a bit.  Then my son was walking out of school and getting in the car so I said SON2 was about to get in the car and was going to say can we talk again at another time...before I could say it she hung up...no goodbye...just hung up (this is very very typical of her).  So after he got in the car I texted her and said sorry our conversation ended abruptly and I hoped we could talk again soon.  She fired off a what the point so you can just call me the c word again and tell me I have a personality disorder.  I replied did any of that happened just now in our conversation?  She didn't reply to that...then she went on about how she's still respectful of our marriage and doesn't trash talk me and how she's hurt and we shouldn't talk over text.  That's when I said I was sorry I said the things I said when I was hurting..  That's when she said I was always blame her for everything and playing the victim.  I told her I didn't text her to fight...we just hung up abruptly and I was asking if we could talk again.  I told her I still miss her and that I have so much I would like to say and I wish she would believe me...she replied "how can i"?  I replied with I understand why you don't believe me right now but I hope in time you will be able to and get to a place where you can.  She didn't reply.

SH4
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2020, 07:46:13 AM »

It sounded like a very up and down conversation. It was good that you managed to passivize the conversation taking the heat out of it at the beginning. I'm not sure I would have texted to apologise for the conversation ending abruptly, you had reasonable reasons for it ending. I might have been inclined to quit whilst I was ahead... also, putting things in text messages especially apologies could be used against you at a later date.

It could have been worse. It's clear she's either legitimately holding onto the hurt or she's clinging onto it like a defensive mechanism...  I'm a poor judge here as I know that I get over things pretty quickly as find labouring on pain and anger pretty soul destroying.

I certainly wouldn't chase now. Leave things
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2020, 08:49:12 AM »

Yes, I'm just going to lay low and see if she reaches out again.  And if she does just try and stay neutral.

SH4
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2020, 03:18:34 AM »

SH4, that sounds like a good plan! I am so pleased to hear you are recovering, and you should not allow anybody to derail you from that.  At the same time I myself have recently become aware of how often I say or do things which can be interpreted as invalidating so am practicing to be more positive. It is a good skill to learn even with non BPD people Smiling (click to insert in post)

Good divorce hygiene is important. Be careful what you say in front of witnesses and what you text, yes. Your wife is going to be even more unstable than usual while the legal processes are going on. It seems clear she is very conflicted so stay out of harm's way.
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2020, 08:13:31 AM »

Happy Monday!

I have a bit of a weekend update.  We had several text interactions last week regarding her mom and the apartment.  Saturday morning she texted me and asked if I was around and if I wanted to see DOG1 (I was so excited).  I let her know I wasn't home at that moment but would love to see him.  She invited me over.  I went.  Mind you this is the first time I have seen her in 2 months.  It went well.  I got to play with DOG1 for a few hours and as soon as I got there she offered me coffee.  We talked about a few different things.  I think it went well.  She seems to have softened.  We left it as we hope we can be civil to one another and maybe start trusting each other a little to maybe someday get to a friendship.  I left after about 2 hours because my DD was coming over with the babies (from 2 states away), I also didn't want to overstay my welcome.  Later that night I sent her a few pics of the puppies.  She said she missed them, I told her she is always welcome to come and visit.  She said she's "hesitant to come to the house yet".  These are words she's always said every time she moves out...right before she comes back.  I'm still hopeful we can work through everything.  All in all I think our interactions over the past week have been very good!

SH4
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2020, 09:34:41 AM »

Great you had a positive interaction. Good you left not too early and not too late and seemed to have got the timing right there.

Hypothetically, do you think 'sorting it out' happens better together or better apart? Do you feel there needs to be control over the process of coming back together to avoid just slipping back to previous chaos. One good interaction doesn't make a new relationship, but it's better to consider these things ahead of time rather than when she's at the front door with all her things.
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2020, 09:54:27 AM »

  I'm still hopeful we can work through everything. 

having a calm, and productive conversation is a good first step.     congratulations on that.

you mention that you are still hopeful you can work through everything.    I think it might be helpful if you started to pencil in some details of what those steps would be.    what would have to happen for you to work through things?    there is a lot of damage on both sides,... how could that start to be repaired?   what communication skills could be used to make things work better?

for those of us in high conflict relationships, once the conflict subsides a bit we tend to think things are better.     which isn't really how the cycle of conflict works.   when the conflict burns itself out for a little while, there is an opportunity to put new tools and skills into play...   seems like you have that opportunity.

what can you do to improve things?

'ducks
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2020, 10:20:52 AM »

Hi 'ducks,

I want to improve on my communication.  If something is bothering me/er instead of letting it build, I'm just going to ask her and visa versa.  I'm going to try and validate the things she says.  I have a hard time with validation, especially if she says something that's really out of line..like you don't love me, you have never loved me.  Hopefully we can just be cordial and civil to one another and start with that.

I'll take any and all recommendations.

SH4
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2020, 11:06:17 AM »

  I have a hard time with validation, especially if she says something that's really out of line..like you don't love me, you have never loved me. 

validation is a skill you can practice.   it doesn't come naturally.    what was suggested to me and worked well was starting to practice on people who I did not have an emotional relationship with.    clerks in stores.   the woman who helps me pick out my glasses.     people at work.     and practicing here by recounting conversations and asking was this validating?   Invalidating?   

validation does NOT meaning agreeing with.  it means not judging.    it means accepting that something is something is being expressed, doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

you've mentioned that your wife says things like 'you don't love her and never loved her'.     I can see why that would be difficult to hear, and hard to deal with.   I could suggest you work that through here with us.   chances are you are going to hear something like that again.    rather than reacting it could be an investment in your relationship to work on ways to respond.     what do you think?

knowing what you know now,  if you wife said 'you don't love me and never have' how could you respond in a more validating way?
 
Hopefully we can just be cordial and civil to one another and start with that.

cordial and civil is great.    still.   pwBPD have harmfully intense emotions that shift rapidly through extremes.    which means maintaining cordial and civil will take some effort.    It's important to be honest about what the relationship can be in terms of consistent behavior.

have you looked at the workshops and lessons here?    any of them seem to resonant with you?

'ducks
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2020, 12:08:47 PM »


knowing what you know now,  if you wife said 'you don't love me and never have' how could you respond in a more validating way?
 

I would say something like.  I can imagine it's very hard to feel like I don't love you.  FULL STOP and not say but that's simpley not true and I do love you.


have you looked at the workshops and lessons here?    any of them seem to resonant with you?

Yes I have reviewed many lessons many times over the past 6 months and I just can't seem to put any of it to practice when I'm around her.  It's like I turn to pile a mush and  just want to profess my undying love for her and apologies for everything and beg her to take me back...ughhhh that's all bad bad bad.

SH4
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2020, 12:10:27 PM »

Hypothetically, do you think 'sorting it out' happens better together or better apart? Do you feel there needs to be control over the process of coming back together to avoid just slipping back to previous chaos. One good interaction doesn't make a new relationship, but it's better to consider these things ahead of time rather than when she's at the front door with all her things.

I'm just kinda going with it.  I'll let her contact me.  I'm going to try to not react to things in the ways I have in the past.  I'm not going to pressure her for anything and not push for anything and just see how things go.

SH4
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2020, 03:03:08 PM »

What do you think the outcome of allowing your wife to determine what happens to the relationship?

Short term
Medium term
Long term

Could you pad that out for me.

I know you want reconciliation, but there is reconciliation and there’s reconciliation.

You know what they say about ‘poor planning’, yes, ‘p!ss poor performance’. Think now.
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2020, 10:08:51 AM »

What do you think the outcome of allowing your wife to determine what happens to the relationship?


I don't really have ANY expectations at this point.  Just going to see where it goes, if it goes anywhere at all.
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2020, 12:01:38 PM »

It was more hypothetical. I’m trying to prompt you to think of outcomes so that you can make good choices SHOULD your W change course. It’s far better to think about the likely outcomes of your actions now rather than drift and then be disappointed when this turn out (in a moderately predictable fashion) predictably bad.

Think about my questions as though your wife is going to about turn and come home. What do your actions (the bit you can control) likely result in.

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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2020, 12:19:24 PM »

Not much of an update:

We have separated the phone plans and the car insurance/cars are being sorted today.  She had her attorney come up with a separation agreement. Last week my wife texted me and said if you want to fire your lawyer my lawyer can send you the new separation agreement.  Mind you she did this with zero input from me.  I asked her if she could send it to me for me to review before I decided to do something as bold as fire my lawyer.  She said she wasn't comfortable sending it to me.  I said ok just forward it to my lawyer.  That was last Tuesday... I have not heard from my lawyer yet!

As far as taking care of me...I'm on it.  Went out with some friends Sunday afternoon for drinks.  They invited to come up to their house this weekend and we are going to go out into the city.  I also made some plans with them to go away memorial day weekend!  Oh and least I forget I booked a trip to a beautiful Caribbean island with 12 of my friends for the end of this month!

I'm still single.  I have zero intentions on dating at this time.  I'm trying to focus on me and raising my boys and helping out with the grand babies who now live only an hour away!

It's funny how when you step back and I look back over the past 10 years I am able to see how toxic things were and I really am beginning to see this is for the best.

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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2020, 11:03:04 AM »

Update:

I've heard from my lawyer.  He got the separation agreement from her lawyer and everything seems to be in order.  They can't file it until the courts open back up here which won't be until after May 1.  We had a pre-trial conference scheduled for the end of May.  He thinks we should just stick with that date.  I'm sad.  This is still not really what I want but she's clearly moving on with her life and wants this just over with.  So sad...all the effort all the love I put into the past 11 years...all for nothing.

It's like she's empty and never felt anything and just wants it "done".

I still can't take my rings off.  I'm not ready.

Hope you are all safe and well during this horrible time.

SH4
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