Preparing for a car ride with BPD MIL

[pursuingJoy]

My BPD MIL's aunt passed away yesterday. MIL is very sad. This person was her dysfunctional mother's sister and a kind mother figure of sorts. MIL has stated that she's lost her "last person" (though her son and all of her siblings are all living). My H is really feeling the tug.

The funeral is Thursday. I know my presence will create some discomfort, but I feel strongly that it is important for me to accompany my H.  His mother has largely discarded me, but it's important to me that I not stay invisible.

This means a two hour drive alone with H to pick her up, a two hour drive with her to the funeral, a two hour drive back to her house, and a two hour drive back to the house alone with him.

Last night, after I expressed interest in accompanying him to the funeral, I was sharing something I'd learned here about boundaries and how people triangulated. I used a friend of his mom's as an example of someone who had exhibited poor boundaries. He agreed and to my surprise, he offered, "My mom has no boundaries either. I'm sorry for how that's affected you." That was a huge step for him. I made sure to express appreciation.

So, while that is a step, I am not going into this with the idea that he is fully recovered or understands what it means to carry out boundary setting with his BPD mom. I still need to prepare. My thoughts so far:

1. Develop a simple statement in case she wants to rehash what's transpired between us, perhaps reiterating my offer to go to counseling together.

2. It is probable that she will ask about or gush over his ex-wife (that she hated when they were together, but has recently rekindled a relationship with...that has somehow become her favorite poker). Should I ignore? Ask H to respond? Question her with curiosity?

3. Speak briefly with our MC to get her thoughts on this.  

4. Gray rock has been effective, but it causes discomfort for my MIL, which has historically made my H defensive and angry on her behalf. I may need to steel myself for fallout on the car ride home with him.

I have major doubt that I can handle this, but I'm doing what I'm scared to do anyway. Thanks in advance for your help.

[GaGrl]

I agree that it is very important for you to be visible with your husband -- good call there.

My thought on prepping for what your MIL might bring up regarding the ex-wife would be "curious questioning."  ( My executive coaching background makes me lean toward questioning as a tool.) This puts the issue back on her -- the right question requires her to think about and respond -- or drop the topic (which might be done with a harumph). Either way, it puts her comments back in her lap and requires that she own what she said.

What kind of comment might she make, and what type of curious questions might you prepare?

[pursuingJoy]

Thanks for helping me think through curious questions GaGrl. Things that have happened in the past:

1. Called me by the ex-wife's name (previously ignored this, open to suggestions)

2. Recalling memories with ex-wife with similar situations. While we were searching for our first house together, MIL said, "Didn't you and ex-wife look for a house in this neighborhood?" When on vacation, "Remember when you and ex-wife vacationed here?" Previously ignored, I could say, "Do you miss ex-wife? I find it interesting that she keeps coming up in your memories of family time."

3. Asking how ex-wife is doing after we spend time together as a family. I ignored this last time, but if it happens again, maybe I could ask, "Neither of us have a close relationship to ex-wife, so I'm curious as to why you're asking us about her wellbeing." Too much?

4. Asking how the ex-wife's boyfriend or family is doing. Same response as above.

5. Mentioning that ex-wife didn't like pepperoni, only like Dasani water, how she treated H at his dad's funeral, how she wouldn't spend holidays with them or take MIL to the store like she'd promised. Stories I've heard over and over. Not sure how to address these recurring memories without sounding harsh. 

[formflier]

When you are crafting your "simple statement", put a spin on it that now isn't a good time, let's focus on grief and caring for our feelings, we can talk about other matters later.

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

Good call, FF. 

[Harri]

Hi PJ!

"Do you miss ex-wife? I find it interesting that she keeps coming up in your memories of family time."

I would be tempted to ask your MIL if she missed the ex as she seems to talk about her quite a bit and leave off the last sentence.  Rather than ignore all of her comments or trying to counter them, why not meet her where she is at?  I would only do that if you can say it with a genuine concern and are ready for any response she may give with acceptance that that is where she is and her answer does not reflect on you and who you are.  

Countering her with a challenge, which is how I see the second half of your comment, seems like it will just increase the tension (as usual) and she will already be upset given her loss.   Why go there?  

4. Asking how the ex-wife's boyfriend or family is doing. Same response as above.

What about:  "I really don't know anything about that as we do not really see or talk with them"  Would that work?

5. Mentioning that ex-wife didn't like pepperoni, only like Dasani water, how she treated H at his dad's funeral, how she wouldn't spend holidays with them or take MIL to the store like she'd promised. Stories I've heard over and over. Not sure how to address these recurring memories without sounding harsh.

Why not stick to the "gee, it sounds like you are really missing her right now and I am sorry this is difficult for you".  

What about these sort of statements and questions are bothering you?  I mean I can guess   , but lets talk about that and see how we can work with things.  Getting her to see you or hear you has not worked for anyone including (and most importantly to me) *you*.  So lets see if we can change things up.

Thoughts?

[pursuingJoy]

Hi Harri! 

I would be tempted to ask your MIL if she missed the ex as she seems to talk about her quite a bit and leave off the last sentence.   

Countering her with a challenge, which is how I see the second half of your comment, seems like it will just increase the tension (as usual) and she will already be upset given her loss.   Why go there?

Good point. What you said also makes me wonder if anything I say, even asking if she misses the ex, will be perceived as a challenge during a difficult time. H will be hyper-focused on his mom's emotional state and therefore super forgiving to any rude comments. The silent expectation may be that I should follow suit. My reasons for going are to support H, present a united front to his mom and to stay visible in this relationship.
  

"I really don't know anything about that as we do not really see or talk with them"  
"gee, it sounds like you are really missing her right now and I am sorry this is difficult for you"

Great suggestions, thank you!

What about these sort of statements and questions are bothering you?  I mean I can guess   , but lets talk about that and see how we can work with things.  Getting her to see you or hear you has not worked for anyone including (and most importantly to me) *you*.  So lets see if we can change things up.

I don't have expectations that she'll care how I feel or hear me. Her own pain will drown out anything I could say. She can't really help that, it's just the way it is.

For her to develop an affectionate relationship with the ex 3 years after we got married is unusual and feels manipulative, whether it's intended that way or not. She never had a relationship with the ex while she was married to my H. I heard on more than one occasion how much MIL hated the ex.  Maybe MIL was looking for belonging by seeking out an ally? Unusual or manipulative or otherwise, I don't care if they have a relationship. Have at it. I don't want to be called by the wrong name or made to feel like the relationship my H and I have or the memories we are building are secondary to those he built with his ex.

My marriage is already crowded with my MIL even when she doesn't bring the ex into it. I've tried making myself smaller and smaller to accommodate my H and MIL and their relationship. At this point I am trying to explore different tactics to take some of my space back and use my voice.

[ProudDad12]

Goodness, this could be quite the road trip!  Props for stepping up and doing it, I hope your husband recognizes the effort you are making. That's a lot of time to be in a confined space with a toxic MIL...  pretty sure safety regulators wouldn't approve.

Regardless of what you end up saying to MIL (to which I have no advice other than ignore as much as possible!), hopefully all this mental prep-work will help minimize the impact. Ignoring is easier said than done but since you at least know it's coming... As far as what to say or how to respond, looks like GaGrl, FF, and Harri have you covered!

Just keep reminding yourself you know the tiger has it's stripes, and whatever hurtful bologna she spouts is her problem not yours!

You could use one of our more double edged sayings in the South (and an actual recommendation from our T)... any time she says something out of like, just mentally say to yourself "Bless her heart!"

[pursuingJoy]

haha I find the humor relieving, PD12. Thank you. 

[ProudDad12]

haha I find the humor relieving, PD12. Thank you. 

Glad to help, because it's all I can offer right now! I still haven't found anything better to say to a toxic/BPD parent than nothing.

[Harri]

What you said also makes me wonder if anything I say, even asking if she misses the ex, will be perceived as a challenge during a difficult time.

It could be.  I was thinking that a time when your MIL is tense and grieving is not going to be at her best and your husband anticipating that is probably not the best time to be confrontational, even slightly.  I didn't see it as making you smaller though.  I was seeing it as being supportive during a rough time and picking and choosing when you will be more effective in your goals.  Yes, she may not have acted in ways that makes you want to support her or listen to her jibes.  Does that need to affect the way you respond here?  Is this the time to draw a line?  Will saying something serve you well in terms of your long term goal?  I'll support you no matter how you choose to handle this     This is your life and your relationship and yes, having a voice is important and I am glad you are thinking of your needs here as well.  Lets look at the big picture.

My reasons for going are to support H, present a united front to his mom and to stay visible in this relationship.

I am cheering you on here. 

Regarding your MIL talking about the ex or 

I don't want to be called by the wrong name

Have you ever tried being direct?  I do not recommend doing this while trapped in a car or at the beginning of a visit or when she is dysregulated.  Maybe in a time of calm it might work?  Just throwing that out there.  It is not something you have to even think about right now. 

My marriage is already crowded with my MIL even when she doesn't bring the ex into it. I've tried making myself smaller and smaller to accommodate my H and MIL and their relationship. At this point I am trying to explore different tactics to take some of my space back and use my voice.

Good! 

[pursuingJoy]

It could be.  I was thinking that a time when your MIL is tense and grieving is not going to be at her best and your husband anticipating that is probably not the best time to be confrontational, even slightly.  I didn't see it as making you smaller though.  I was seeing it as being supportive during a rough time and picking and choosing when you will be more effective in your goals.

Good points, I'll think more about it. It would be counterproductive to be perceived as confrontational. I will 'read the room' and play it by ear.

And on the other hand, I'm realizing that part of my frustration is that she is constantly in crisis, and her issues are always more urgent than mine. She is lonely. She is sick. She has anxiety. She is depressed. Her granddaughter took advantage of her again. She fell. She lost her son 20 years ago. She lost her husband 10 years ago. Her dog was hit by a car.

There are zero moments without crises, and her crises trump any issue I may have. It's part of her defense, I guess.

Have you ever tried being direct? 

During the year and a half that she called me the wrong name, I tried during several quieter moments to share how it frustrated me and I asked her to stop. She insisted that she couldn't help it.

I've never asked her to refrain from bringing up H's ex. She has told me on numerous occasions that I'm "just insecure" so I didn't want to give her fuel.

After spending Christmas night with the ex-wife, she volunteered that she HAD to maintain a relationship with ex-wife in order to see the kids. We never asked about it so I thought it strange that she offered this information. Her explanation doesn't make sense to me as H is very involved with kids. Families of other couples in our situation tend to go through their bio kids to see grandkids. She's also not that into being a grandmother.

Thanks for the encouragement as I explore what it means to use my voice.

[Methuen]

He agreed and to my surprise, he offered, "My mom has no boundaries either. I'm sorry for how that's affected you."

 

Should I ignore? Ask H to respond? Question her with curiosity?

Do you think it would be possible to discuss this with H ahead of time?  Would he be open to that conversation yet do you think?  

I am just thinking that with the breakthrough above  , maybe the time is approaching when the two of you can work out these possible scenarios together ahead of time, and that way he has "buy in" of the plan, because he helped to make the plan.

I think discussing ahead of time with MC is a GREAT idea

Will anyone else be in the car, or just you three?  

Any "calming music" you can play in the car on the road trip home?

[pursuingJoy]

Right, Methuen? I was so happy he was able to voice his understanding that his mom lacks boundaries. 

I've thought about talking to him and I want to, but it's still like walking on thin ice with him. I'll have to pace myself. He still struggles with feeling like supporting me is betraying his mom. I can't change that.

Just the three of us in the car. Music is a good idea! I'll be ready to disengage on the car ride home to give H time to process.

The way appointments worked out, H has an individual appt with MC tomorrow. I'm going to see if she has time to chat with me briefly too.

[Harri]

There are zero moments without crises, and her crises trump any issue I may have. It's part of her defense, I guess.

Fair enough.  My mom was like that too, but I figured I would ask.  It was definitely part of my moms defense. 

She has told me on numerous occasions that I'm "just insecure" so I didn't want to give her fuel.

Ugh. 

[formflier]

A few thoughts about someone in constant crisis.  Remember...that's their deal, not yours.

Focus on yourself and the way you present yourself.  If in your estimation, a "real crisis" (such as the most recent death) is happening, then go way...way...over and above to be supportive and non-confrontational.  

If she is having a crisis and you don't believe that your values support ...being supportive.  Then don't take any guff.  Be assertive and let her react in her own way.

I've never asked her to refrain from bringing up H's ex. She has told me on numerous occasions that I'm "just insecure" so I didn't want to give her fuel.

I think and hope that someday this is something that your husband can handle.  He seems to be "opening his eyes" and moving to a healthier place.

(fictional names)  "Mom...this is Sandra, please don't call her my ex wife's name.  It would mean a lot to me if you can do that for us. Can I count on you?"

If she deflects and "does her thing"..don't buy into that.

"Mom...can I count on you to call Sandra by her name?" 


I would handle this separately than "bringing up" the ex's name.  

I would probably handle the name thing first and based on how that goes we can sort out a way to address this.

What do you think of this idea?

Best,

FF

[kiwigal]

Oh PJ. We have so much in common.
I am just so sorry I know first hand how that scenario feels with my in laws and my H ex girlfriend, let alone ex wife. At one point early on I was told "don't ask us to cut her out of our lives just because you're on the scene"... later my MIL sent her a letter offering to babysit for her, and to make her meals after having a baby. She hadn't done that for me once.
For years they would bring her up for conversation and do the same sort of saga "remember when..." and my MIL would say frequently "I just have such a soft spot for her".

My therapist suggested that whenever I engage with them, to expect all these same sorts of game playing and insensitive positioning comments and nonsense. They just can't help themselves. But I recognised, like you, that they have the same sort of cycles of games and listing them, helped me to say "Oh yes, this one".

My T suggested I move into radical acceptance that any interaction would come with the crap. But to focus on my marriage and core values. Like you've identified, I think its your H responsibility to guard that boundary in your marriage and its his place to say "Mom, I don't want to discuss my ex in front of my wife".

Could you perhaps gently say to your H "Im not going to say anything or create drama. But when you allow it, please know it erodes trust in our marriage". Then have a key word you could say to each other which means "hey let's change the subject" and maybe a back up subject you could quickly turn to, like "speaking of memories, mom I was thinking the other day about the time..."

I think so much of what we face, as the wife and daughter in law, is creating enough space between the games and nonsense and ourselves, that it allows the problem to be the problem, separate from us.
Like you said, they are not interested in our feelings but when we engage with calmness, it seems to empower our H to stand up to their moms. And also being realistic that they aren't going to get it right every time because of years of inbuilt coping strategies and neurological wiring.

Thinking of you so much PJ. I just want to say how much I irk for you, that you get these kind of comments from her. But also how much I respect you for being so gracious and also letting the likes of me, benefit from your experience, insight, wisdom and understanding of going through this stuff.
Your MIL has sadly missed out on a huge amount of getting the wonderful true you, because of her own issues, and it is so sad that they don't get to have YOU like we do.


 

[Methuen]

Your MIL has sadly missed out on a huge amount of getting the wonderful true you, because of her own issues, and it is so sad that they don't get to have YOU like we do

Well said Kiwigal! 

[SepiaScarf]

Oh PJ,
      This is going to be a challenge for sure. I was thinking what if you look at this in the same light as if it were a get-together and you were planning activities. Meaning you have things in your pocket to steer the time with. If it were a get together you might go to the park for an hour. In this case, you might ask her to share her favorite story about her aunt. This would fill the air leaving less space for unwanted confrontation but also might be seen as you taking interest in a loving way.

Road bingo..

I will be thinking of you !

[pursuingJoy]

Fair enough.  My mom was like that too, but I figured I would ask.  It was definitely part of my moms defense.  

Harri, I so appreciate your questions. They come without judgment and make me think. I feel trusted which means more than you know.

You're helping me understand a huge piece of my issues with her. I believe there is a way for all of us to have space, even in a situation like this. I believe that crises do not justify mistreatment. Hurting people are still responsible for their behavior. I have the option of anticipating a lack of patience, asking for grace, and apologizing for hurting others even if I didn't mean to. I understand that what I say and do while I'm hurting can have consequences and I will be held accountable.

The fact that her hurt is used to justify all sorts of behavior violates a value of mine. Of course I can't change her, but I can understand what's happening. I might even be able to share my thoughts with H and help him understand why I'm frustrated.

Focus on yourself and the way you present yourself.  If in your estimation, a "real crisis" (such as the most recent death) is happening, then go way...way...over and above to be supportive and non-confrontational.  

Fair point, FF. Because every day is a crisis for her and H feels her feelings for her, I need to prepare mentally to assess independently and without his support.

"Mom...this is Sandra, please don't call her my ex wife's name.  It would mean a lot to me if you can do that for us. Can I count on you?"

"Mom...can I count on you to call Sandra by her name?"  

Gaaahhhh I would so loove to hear him say either of these. Lovingly, using his son-charm. For now if his mom says she can't help it, he buys it hook, line and sinker. Who knows. Maybe someday. And I agree that calling me the wrong name is a different issue than bringing up the ex on a consistent basis.

Oh PJ. We have so much in common.

I'm sorry too, kiwi. You really do get it. I hate it for you, but thank you so very much for sharing your experiences. It helps to know I'm not alone. If it's happening to you, too, it clarifies that this is about unhealthy parent/child dynamics and I can take their crap a little less personally.

At one point early on I was told "don't ask us to cut her out of our lives just because you're on the scene"... later my MIL sent her a letter offering to babysit for her, and to make her meals after having a baby. She hadn't done that for me once.

Ugh. Both awful things to do/say. I pray every day that I never become this to my children and their spouses. What a welcome, huh?

Even my H's extended family is cold towards me. It's not personal because they're that way towards some of their own. There's this weird insider clique. I could figure out the rules to try to fit in, but it makes me so mad that they mistreat a cousin and his wife that I refuse, and instead I sit at the outsider's table.

In stark contrast, my very large family has accepted my H with open arms in spite of the fact that they're super conservative Christians, knowing that he divorced twice before me and cheated on his last wife. They welcome him warmly. He loves it.  

For years they would bring her up for conversation and do the same sort of saga "remember when..." and my MIL would say frequently "I just have such a soft spot for her".

Ugghhh. Why? Why is this necessary? Is this BPD related behavior (and how) or is it just poor understanding of blended family dynamics?

Again in contrast: for years my mom disapproved of my divorce (again, very conservative Christians who don't believe in divorce). She always liked my ex H but, unbidden, she didn't reach around me to maintain a relationship with him. We divorced 13 years ago, and two months ago while we were visiting her, she was sorting through photos and tossing photos that only had him in them. Unbidden. Both me and my H felt her support. It wasn't necessary, but it indicates full acceptance of him as my husband, as part of our family.

My therapist suggested that whenever I engage with them, to expect all these same sorts of game playing and insensitive positioning comments and nonsense. They just can't help themselves. But I recognised, like you, that they have the same sort of cycles of games and listing them, helped me to say "Oh yes, this one".

I wonder if our T's know that their advice is so far reaching and useful?   I like the "Oh, this one," phrase . I can do this.  

Could you perhaps gently say to your H "Im not going to say anything or create drama. But when you allow it, please know it erodes trust in our marriage".

Very practical and useful suggestions. At the moment I'm gun-shy to talk to my H about taking any action on my behalf. Even suggestions like yours have really upset him. Historically he's chosen avoidance. If action is to be taken, he wants me to take it. That way he can yell at me and come out smelling like a rose to his mom. Gut tells me he's not ready to speak up for me because to him, it's betrayal of his mother. Maybe your changing the subject suggestion is more palatable to him? I say this but I'm reminding myself that our MC has challenged both of us to allow the other some room to change.

At this point I can definitely share my emotions and how I feel nervous about spending time with her, maybe how I'm preparing my thoughts and responses. Hearing that will be more effective for now. He will more easily absorb my communication about my emotion instead of feeling immediately threatened. I'm tucking your suggestions away and if/when he seems receptive, I'll broach the subject.

I think so much of what we face, as the wife and daughter in law, is creating enough space between the games and nonsense and ourselves, that it allows the problem to be the problem, separate from us.

This is such a powerful and accurate statement. Yes, yes, yes. Reading this over and over. GaGrl told me once to let my H handle his relationship with his mom instead of providing guidance or trying to support. Staying calm, allowing them to self soothe and feel their own feelings, and manage their own discomfort and dysfunction has been an effective means of staying out of the triangle.

Thinking of you so much PJ. I just want to say how much I irk for you, that you get these kind of comments from her. But also how much I respect you for being so gracious and also letting the likes of me, benefit from your experience, insight, wisdom and understanding of going through this stuff.
Your MIL has sadly missed out on a huge amount of getting the wonderful true you, because of her own issues, and it is so sad that they don't get to have YOU like we do.

All of what you said made me cry with relief but this kindness turned up the waterworks (thanks, Methuen!). Your painful experiences aren't wasted. You're taking difficult and ugly material and turning it into something beautiful for you, your H, for me and many others. Cheers to you, brave artist. Thank you!

In this case, you might ask her to share her favorite story about her aunt. This would fill the air leaving less space for unwanted confrontation but also might be seen as you taking interest in a loving way.

Road bingo..

Sepia, excellent thought to approach this as I would any planned activity and come up with questions or talking points! I am not above road bingo lolll

[GaGrl]

O think the topic of MIL still calling you by the ex's name and saying she "can't help it," and H's inability of unwillingness to speak up about it, would be a really good topic for MC. It is a microcosm of the problems that exist but are very clear-cut. Everyone wants to be called by his/her name.

I have to say, when she says, "I can't help it," I would be tempted to respond, " (Her name), I believe you can. "

[formflier]

I have to say, when she says, "I can't help it," I would be tempted to respond, " (Her name), I believe you can. "

For now, Hubby seems to be doing perhaps some movement in the right direction, so I don't think "direct" confrontation is helpful.

Let's say MIL's really name is Dorris.  If everyone is going to "sit out" this issue, I would eventually support you calling her Francis or perhaps a rolling list of whacky names.

After all...I'm sure she understands when people "can't help it".

That's a long way off.

Anyway, focus on getting through the road trip and being supportive.

Focus on letting other people have their own emotional reactions.  You can be completely separate from that.

Best,

FF

[formflier]

Gaaahhhh I would so loove to hear him say either of these. Lovingly, using his son-charm. For now if his mom says she can't help it, he buys it hook, line and sinker. Who knows. Maybe someday. And I agree that calling me the wrong name is a different issue than bringing up the ex on a consistent basis.
 

For clarity.  I wouldn't suggest "charm".

Just a direct, neutral, succinct request.

My guess is that she will blather rather than say yes to my first proposal, which is why I suggested the second line as the only response.

Ignore all the other and ask...can I count on you?

Stick with that.

If she says no.

"Mom..that's disappointing.  I'm going to discuss this with "PJ".  I would imagine we'll need to make changes."  (then stop further discussion)

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

I have to say, when she says, "I can't help it," I would be tempted to respond, " (Her name), I believe you can. "

I just super like this very simple response. I could see myself saying this in a kind way.

FF, I think my "son-charm" comment has more to do with their perception of their relationship than reality. He can do no wrong as long as I'm the scapegoat. Sometimes I wish he'd use a little of his golden child fairy dust to make some progress for us instead of just for him. I agree, clear and succinct is an excellent approach and I will continue to hope for the day when he can communicate as you suggest to his mom. He's not there at all but it's good to hear you lay it out, it helps me gauge where I'd like to get to.

Focus on letting other people have their own emotional reactions.  You can be completely separate from that.

Yes to this!

[pursuingJoy]

yesterday went as well as could be expected!  

Before we went, in a passing sort of conv, I mentioned to my H that I was trying to reach MC for a brief call because I was very nervous about the visit and wanted to be prepared for anything that might come up. He had a look of realization on his face, so I simply asked him if he could please look out for me. He said yes of course. Progress.

MIL was largely child and waif-like yesterday, not in attack mode. She was so slumped over, difficulty talking, walked with a wobble like she was almost falling over at all times, and was unable to get in the car without significant assistance from her son. Side note: she has a really discordant way of constantly saying negative things in a positive tone, like "Pneumonia sure makes the holidays fun" and "(her dog's name) and I had a great time all alone this year."  She asked us to stop at DQ because she wanted french fries and a float. She slurped her drink and talked in a very child-like way. Sometimes she'd forget to 'waif,' which made me laugh internally as she caught herself. But I was able to observe all of this in a removed way and recognize it for what it is. Progress.

I had a few questions/topics planned (thank you all!) and I used them all. In a stroke of genius (look at me being so humble ) I decided to start a crocheting project and worked on that the whole drive. It gave us talking points when things got awkardly quiet. There was one point where she and I were in the car alone for about 10 minutes as my H picked up food. I panicked a little but I just took control of the conversation in a civil, removed way and kept it going so that she didn't have an open window. Progress.  

Once we arrived at the funeral she was absolutely in her element. She had about 5 older family members that came around her and 'waif' shifted to benevolent queen behavior as she basked in the light of their adoration. (It wasn't that dramatic, just trying to paint a picture of the switch.) She soaked up all of the attention and she seemed so happy. Her son was ever-ready but she ignored him and waved off his efforts to help. He kept looking her way and repeating out loud, "mom's ok, she has people with her." But he stood with me, which I appreciated.

After the funeral, MIL immediately disappeared with these family members. H stayed with me and we talked to his cousins. When we saw her again where they were setting up food, she was glowing. She had a spring in her step, a smile on her face, she was happy as a clam, chatting it up with her cousin. She walked across some very uneven ground without trouble. When she saw us, she just asked to get her stuff out of our car and asked if we were leaving yet (she planned to stay the night with her sister so as it turns out, we didn't have to give her a ride back).

H seemed ok with it all, though I can't help but wonder how the ignoring and dismissing really makes him feel. As long as his mom is happy, he seems at peace. His need and desire to be her singular caretaker kicks into overdrive if she's not doing well, but for your mom to wave you off like that? I don't know. I think that might kind of hurt my feelings.

On the way home, he thanked me for coming with him which was nice. I later commented to him that I knew he'd been worried about his mom's grief over her aunt but she really seemed ok, which was good. He didn't say much in response.

Thanks for reading this far. It's a huge relief to have that over with. Thanks, all, for your help leading up to this - I never know who i'll get with her and I felt prepared for a host of scenarios. Thank you thank you thank you.  

pj

[ProudDad12]

PJ, that has to be a sigh of relief. Very glad to hear it went well, not to mention only having half the time the car with her than you expected!

[Methuen]

Huge exhale!  I'm so relieved for you that it went as well as it could.

Before we went, in a passing sort of conv, I mentioned to my H that I was trying to reach MC for a brief call because I was very nervous about the visit and wanted to be prepared for anything that might come up. He had a look of realization on his face, so I simply asked him if he could please look out for me. He said yes of course.

Brilliant, and Yay!

MIL was largely child and waif-like yesterday, not in attack mode. She was so slumped over, difficulty talking, walked with a wobble like she was almost falling over at all times, and was unable to get in the car without significant assistance from her son. Side note: she has a really discordant way of constantly saying negative things in a positive tone, like "Pneumonia sure makes the holidays fun" and "(her dog's name) and I had a great time all alone this year."  She asked us to stop at DQ because she wanted french fries and a float. She slurped her drink and talked in a very child-like way. Sometimes she'd forget to 'waif,' which made me laugh internally as she caught herself. But I was able to observe all of this in a removed way and recognize it for what it is.

You just gave me a new goal to work on (there are so many! )  You also just described a waif version of my mom in that paragraph to a "T".  Congratulations  for being able to observe those behaviors in a removed way.  Can you think of anything in particular (skill or strategy or "other") that helped you get to that point? I would really like to get there too...

 

Her son was ever-ready but she ignored him and waved off his efforts to help. He kept looking her way and repeating out loud, "mom's ok, she has people with her." But he stood with me, which I appreciated

Sounds like he needed to really keep reassuring himself. Still, I'm thinking it must have taken significant effort on his part to "separate himself" from his mom at this time.  He stood beside you.  Loving the symbolism there!

As long as his mom is happy, he seems at peace. His need and desire to be her singular caretaker kicks into overdrive if she's not doing well

Yah I'm still learning to be aware of this in myself PJ, with my mom, and in the moment. I just recently (last few months) connected the dots that I feel better when my mom's mood is positive, and I feel FOG when her mood is not positive. I never figured that out until I was 57!  I am happy your H's mom gloried in the attention she got at the funeral, because that made it easier for your H, which in turn made it easier for you.    

H seemed ok with it all, though I can't help but wonder how the ignoring and dismissing really makes him feel...but for your mom to wave you off like that? I don't know. I think that might kind of hurt my feelings.

Yep, good chance.  But maybe he self-discovers an awareness that she can manage without him.  Maybe that would be a baby step towards progress (him realizing she can look after herself during a difficult time, without him).

On the way home, he thanked me for coming with him which was nice.

You handled that all so well PJ  

[pursuingJoy]

I appreciate y'all more than you know.

Can you think of anything in particular (skill or strategy or "other") that helped you get to that point? I would really like to get there too...

Good question. Thanks for the opportunity to think through this and analyze what I did. Knowing that I could come here, that you'd understand and empathize, was huge. I made a mental note of what was happening and knew I could share it with you and feel understood.   

I let her waifiness fall a little flat, not react with overt emotion or affection or attention. Oddly I noticed that H did the same a few times.

Once I found a way to respond/redirect/offer an option:

H: Mom, what do you want to eat?
MIL: I haven't had an appetite at all for the last few weeks. I just don't eat much anymore.
H: (apologizes for the 100th time for making her sick)

A few minutes later...
H: Mom, you asked to stop on the way. Do you know what you want yet?
MIL: I just don't know, I can't decide. Food just doesn't taste good when you're sick, you know.
Me: I don't like heavy food when I don't feel well. Have you tried those fruit popsicles? They're delicious. Maybe we can stop and pick some up for you.
MIL: Huh.

A minute later she decided she asked for french fries and a sprite float.

Their circular conversations serve her because they're a constant source of affirmation and apologies and loving encouragements, but they're not really functional communication. I learned with kids to dislodge recurring conversations and insert a practical statement or choice to get it on a productive track.
 

Yep, good chance.  But maybe he self-discovers an awareness that she can manage without him.  Maybe that would be a baby step towards progress (him realizing she can look after herself during a difficult time, without him).

I am so hoping that this registered with him, Methuen! She has proven, over and over, to be adept at finding people to sympathize and care for her. She turns around and tells H that he's all she has. I'm hoping he can see the incongruity in what she says and does.

Thanks for the encouragement, PD and Methuen.