Getting my ex back

[Dungahass]

Hello!
Found this board a couple months ago and its been a godsend.

I'm currently in a situation with an ex-gf with BPD traits, with who I'm trying to get back together. Would appreciate any help on my "plan" or any inputs which I have not considered. I'm 38, and she's 30 and with a small child.

Relationship Background
•   Met my uBPD ex-gf online two years ago, we live in different cities, and we did the whole online thing for a while before ever meeting.
•   For almost a year, before ever meeting, she wanted to try a relationship, and I didn't think it was a good idea but ultimately I came around, we met-up, and we gave it a try.
•   We broke up a few months later after I had enough of her moodswings, her push-pull, her constant vocal negativity about the relationship, and dismissing my feelings and blaming me for all of our issues. That was a year ago. Her dad had died right before the breakup too.

Breakup and post-breakup – My reconciliation attempts:
•   I felt I made a mistake by breaking up with her, and recognized ways I had contributed to the breakdown of the relationship
•   I tried for months to get back together with her, and despite my efforts, she would reject me, then pull me in with "I love and miss you' texts, and then reject me again after I would talk about the relationship. This lasted for months. I saw sides of her I had never seen, she would lash out and say hurtful things me when I would talk about the relationship, when I was being the most vulnerable. I felt like I was tossed into the trash by the person who had previously regarded me as the most important thing in her life
•   After 3 attempts over 4 months, I started getting resentful and walked away. She was also not doing very well on a personal/emotional level at the time.

Her reconciliation attempts
•   We didn't speak for a month, and all of a sudden she reached out and slowly started chasing me again. This time she really seemed to want to get back together and said we’re made for each other
•    I still had all this resentment about the months prior, and I wanted answers on how she could treat me that way, and reassurances it wouldn't happen again, and so I was very cautious and was keeping her at an arms length, despite loving her and wishing things could go well.
•   Eventually, after 3 months of her chasing me, I told her I needed some space, and she should go work on her issues during that time, and that we would see each other soon when I would be visiting her city for work. She accepted, but didn't respect my wishes and kept contacting me several times a day, for several days. After a while I asked her why she was contacting me when we agreed to give each other space, and that convo went terribly. She blew up on me, hung up, and blocked me on almost everywhere. Rejection/abandonment issues triggered to the max
•   A couple days later, I learned about BPD from my therapist, and how it fit her perfectly. All of a sudden, all of our relationship, all the good and the bad made sense, for the first time ever. It was from there that I let go of all the resentment, and I returned to the basic feelings I have, which is that I deeply love this woman.
•   I managed to get the lines of communication open again, and talking to her about my feelings, I quickly realized I had been painted black, so I didn't JADE or anything. She barely communicated with me, I gave her the space, but she dropped a "I miss you, maybe one day we'll live together" once, and facetimed me with her sister whom I hadn't met yet until then. She talked about meeting her friends and family when I would visit her city for work over the holidays, which seemed big, even though she was saying she's written off the relationship. I made it clear I had been wrong about her and I want to marry her.

Latest in-person encounter – we met at last!
I eventually did go down to her city for work over the holidays, and it can be summarized as follows:
Day 1 (Great): Saw her, met her mom, we had a great time, we kissed and embraced each other in the car at the end of the night, I was in heaven.
Day 2 (terrible): I voiced my concern over something that bothered me, and she pulled a 180 in an instant. Dismissed my feelings, said I have issues, and pulled away. No more kissing/embrace. I met her friends that night, she was much more distant, yet held my hand under the table at times. We also later talked about the relationship and she said she loves me but has bad feelings about it and doesn't want it right now, and that I was the one who had rejected it.
Day 3-4 (bad): Met her entire family, more coldness from her, lashed out at me once, didn't really want me to get physically close, but we exchanged a couple kisses and I love yous
Day 4 (meh): Finally some alone time with her and her young daughter. Things were ok, peaceful, nice, but she wasn't really wanting to be physically close and said it’s a sign that it might be over between us. Yet we exchanged a couple more kisses and I love yous. She called me "babe" a few times.
Day 5 (bad to great): I pulled away from her physically that day. Later that night, I went to bed, she followed me to the bedroom (she let me stay at her place), came on top of me and started kissing me and saying I love you. We had sex and cuddled for an hour. It was amazing. She said "guess my attraction is back". I was elated.
Day 6 (amazing to bad): Christmas day, great day, we got some time alone, had sex, cuddled. Then I voiced a concern (that I know I shouldn't have then). She went back to "we're not compatible, we'll always have issues", became a bit colder but we still cuddled some more, had sex again, and said I love you, and went to bed.
Day 7 - Final day (awful): Something happened overnight. She was a goner, barely looked at me, said I give her bad feelings, indirectly telling me she wishes I hadn't come (despite telling me she's glad I came the night before). We're not compatible, she said. I was back in the black. I left, and later sent a text apologizing for bringing up stuff when I shouldn't have. I boarded the plane back home that day and I was a ball of sadness for the entire trip.

Today, going forward
Since then, I have told her I want to get back together, I want to marry her and am willing to move there to be with her. She says she thinks I'm just saying it to get her back. Told her my view of her has 100% changed (and it has, because I know about BPD, but she doesn't know that) and that I’ll never abandon her, even if we’re not together. She has told me she's not 100% closed off to a relationship, that she loves me tremendously, but isn't really interested in one today and gave me a bunch of unsolicited reasons why we’re not good together. And as usual after I pulled back she sent me a "I never told you but you're the best sex I've ever had", as well as a love song. We're now barely talking, as I'm letting her do most of the reaching out, and she hasn't done that much lately.

I'm thinking the only way for me to get back together with her is to give her some space, some time for current black cycle to end, and for her to miss me again. Yet I'm finding it really hard to stay focused on the end goal and the worry that she might not come back takes over pretty quickly. I'm really struggling to find the right balance between giving her space, and also not triggering feelings of abandonment/engulfment. I texted her yesterday to see how she's doing, it went well, but it’s obvious that I’m not close to being in a good spot in her mind. Like I said she hasn't really initiated much contact in this past week, and that freaks me out a bit. And its also clear that she's almost LOOKING for any reason that we're not compatible. She's admitted to as much.

Other than reading the valuable resources/tools on this site, is there,
1) Anything different I should be doing in my communication with her? Should I tell her I love/miss her once in a while? I would love to, but I'm worried it won't help anything. I’ve been working on not JADEing, not pushing, not engulfing, and on validating. I also know that with her, the times where she’s pursued me the most is when I haven’t been available. I figured if she doesn't reach out, I;d send a check-in text once a week. Part of me wonders if complete NC from me is better in this case, but I'm afraid of losing her completely like this.
2) Any thoughts on the odds of her coming back?
3) I want to propose to her and I already bought the ring (Costco’s generous return policy is perfect for proposing to a person with BPD . I’ll only do it if/when the time is right. My therapist suggests to wait until a moment like when were in bed cuddling, and to catch her when she’s feeling great about me and the relationship. Any thoughts?

I've already accepted and want a life with this BDP ex of mine. My own therapist says she will 99% come back, and that I should keep things light with her, focus on myself, and when she does come back, I should build on it and really commit (which I haven't done). But I do worry that since we broke up once, and it took forever for her to warm up to the relationship again, the black hole she (I) fell back in again will be that much harder/nearly impossible to climb out of, and the relationship is over. I’m full of anxiety and sadness over all this eggshell walking and not knowing if we’ll ever get back together.

Thoughts?
Thanks.

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[Adrian26]

Dear Dungahass,

Welcome!

I dont have much time at this point to reply fully to your concerns, I will make time to do so later.
But as I read them, the immense similarity between our situations struck me. The push-pull cycle is something we are all familiar with here, but even the details are the same- as in, you breaking up because of her moodswings, push-pull and constanct vocal negativity and invalidating your feelings, you regretting your decision, blaming yourself partially, being rejected when attempting to reconcile, pulling you back in anyway, you naturally feeling very insecure and wary because of past treatment and wanting reassurance, splitting starting when you try to address valid concerns about your relationship, her claiming you guys are not compatible for a list of reasons that increasingly loses touch with reality, and yet still harbouring strong feelings and expressing them often.
My ex would frequently drop the 'were incompatible-bomb' as well when I would address behaviours of hers of hers that invalidated me or when I drew boundaries. I too have recently discovered how BPD motivated her actions and gained increased understanding, just like yourself. I would also like advice on how to handle that understanding properly. I would encourage you to look at my recent posts as well and see if you recognize the similarity. It might help you validate your feelings.

I am also very interested in advice from the community about the things you asked.

I am also wondering, after your first breakup, how did she eventually warm-up to you again/lose the black split?

Some questions to you: 
- You have only very recently learned from your therapist about the possible BPD diagnosis. Describing her behaviour, I have no reason to doubt that assessment. However, do you feel like this recent knowledge is enough to propose marriage to her?

- I am definitely not saying you two will not make each other happy in the long run. Do not get me wrong. I am asking if you are sure you are prepared to what it takes to marry a BPD-patient, especially one that is not even fully diagnosed herself. As such, even though you might understand her behaviour, it might still be very taxing if aspects of her BPD do not decrease with time. Also, I wonder how you would go about confronting her with that suggestion. I presume and advise you not to confront her at all. But I fear that, especially during the long years of your possible marriage, it will become a topic. Has she in any way shown any insight into her behaviour? Do you think you can handle the relationship without her getting therapy? If not, how do you intend to communicate these thoughts?

Reading your post I got the feeling your intentions are excellent, but there are some honest obstacles on the road. I actually think there is a big chance of her coming back. But what are your more long term honest plans and views on this relationship?

 

[Dungahass]

Thanks, Adrian26! I feel like this site is gonna be a game changer for me in terms of support and sense of community.

I am also very interested in advice from the community about the things you asked.

I am also wondering, after your first breakup, how did she eventually warm-up to you again/lose the black split?

This one is tricky. Shot down three attempts I made, each time the lashing out becoming worst, so I told her I was sorry I pushed, and completely backed off. We went NC for a month, and she started reaching out to me. I kept my interactions with her brief and detached for the first few weeks too. I think it was a combination of her missing me, and trying out a very shallow and muddy dating pool for a while. I also remember setting a boundary by telling her I didn't want anymore lovey/dovey talk if she had no intention of getting back together. It set her off, but I think in the long run it contributed to her coming back after me.
Part of me also thinks that the BPD aspect, which combined with the depth of her feelings for me,  will keep making her come back, depending on how I handle the situation. But of course I also worry that she (I) may have gone even deeper black now, beyond recovery, since I do believe it took a lot for her to chase me for 3 months and agree to go all in, before feeling rejected.

You have only very recently learned from your therapist about the possible BPD diagnosis. Describing her behaviour, I have no reason to doubt that assessment. However, do you feel like this recent knowledge is enough to propose marriage to her? I am definitely not saying you two will not make each other happy in the long run. Do not get me wrong. I am asking if you are sure you are prepared to what it takes to marry a BPD-patient, especially one that is not even fully diagnosed herself. As such, even though you might understand her behaviour, it might still be very taxing if aspects of her BPD do not decrease with time. Also, I wonder how you would go about confronting her with that suggestion. I presume and advise you not to confront her at all. But I fear that, especially during the long years of your possible marriage, it will become a topic. Has she in any way shown any insight into her behaviour? Do you think you can handle the relationship without her getting therapy? If not, how do you intend to communicate these thoughts?

The marriage proposal is based on feelings. I've read about BPD like crazy over the last two months, I know of the potential dangers and that I may experience things I can't even imagine/anticipate today. I've heard the concerns and guidance from my therapist. I also know it is I who has to change. I've already started that process. But I also believe in this woman. She, from the very early beginnings, has been telling me about her BPD, unbeknownst to either of us. She has tremendous insight into herself. My suspicion that she has BPD isn't just based on observations, it's based on things she has told me about herself over the last two years. She recognizes many of her traits, but hasn't pieced it all together yet. So there is some hope yet. And I also believe in myself, that I can find a way to navigate it all and remain happy to be with the woman that I love. I am 99.99% sure I will never tell her about BPD, unless she brings it up. We have talked about her going to therapy in the past, hopefully it will be someone who is able to guide her in the right direction. I'm not proposing anytime soon  . It's black season right now. But I do want to marry her.

Reading your post I got the feeling your intentions are excellent, but there are some honest obstacles on the road. I actually think there is a big chance of her coming back. But what are your more long term honest plans and views on this relationship?

My plan is to try to deal with her BPD the best I can using the tools I will develop, with the help of my excellent therapist and resources like this site. That includes beefing up my own sense of self, in order to not have all of my happiness come from her and her waves. I think there is a good chance she'll come back too. But who knows? I still worry a lot. And more and more I see that the only way is for me to distance myself from her almost entirely, so that she deals with the black and starts reaching out to me more, and so that I can recover from the last two months since learning about BPD. We're still exchanging some messages here and there, and she initiated it yesterday. Very far from anything concrete still, and she may not message me again for a while.

I really appreciate your words. I'm gonna look up your posts to read your story.

[once removed]

it sounds like there has been a lot of push/pull and resentment on both sides.

deep down, trust isnt really there for either of you.

getting back together is going to entail figuring out how to establish and build trust, and whether, at this point, that is doable.

its been some time since you posted. any update?

[Dungahass]

it sounds like there has been a lot of push/pull and resentment on both sides.

deep down, trust isnt really there for either of you.

getting back together is going to entail figuring out how to establish and build trust, and whether, at this point, that is doable.

its been some time since you posted. any update?

Hi Once Removed,

Sorry for not replying earlier, I had not noticed your post.

No "real" updates to speak of, other than the turmoil going on in my own head. We maintain some sparse contact, and recently she started to show a slight amount of interest in me and the messages became daily for 4-5 days, but then disappeared again. I've been working on only contacting her when she initiates it, mirroring her mood, and being upbeat. At the same time. I sometimes take a few hours to reply, as to not be disturbed in what I'm doing in that moment. She's been telling me she's been feeling great lately because of some detox diet she's on. I'm not trying to be a hater, but the thought of her doing great, while also not really talking with me, has made me feel so alone. Like she's moving on and doing just fine.

I've ready a lot of your posts here, and you've brought up the concept of rebuilding trust a few times. I tend to agree with that. I've just not been sure how to do that and would appreciate your inputs on that. Part of me thinks the best way to achieve that is to be chill and upbeat with her and not push anything. That now feels like I'm passively putting my fate in the hands of something that may or may not happen, with little control over my own destiny Another part of me now wonders if the best way to re-establish trust is to start engaging her a bit more, and talk about life and the things we used to talk about (like other men in her life, which started triggering jealousy in me), without judgement.

Aaaand, another part of me is wondering if I can even do this anymore, and that perhaps I should just tell her I might have a job that would bring me near her soon. This would be with the goal of letting her know that I'm serious, and that my commitment to her is real (trying to appease that side of trust issues). I made a thread about this last part here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342786.0

Thanks again for reading.

[once removed]

I've ready a lot of your posts here, and you've brought up the concept of rebuilding trust a few times. I tend to agree with that. I've just not been sure how to do that and would appreciate your inputs on that

ill be frank:

its not clear that there has ever been a lot of trust between the two of you.

being long distance makes this very, very difficult. you cant build much beyond what the two of you currently have with that distance.

the good news is that it sounds like there is still a level of attraction and interest. its not clear how much, or what the potential of it is. short term, you want to try to build on that. is any of the conversation flirty or romantic?

perhaps I should just tell her I might have a job that would bring me near her soon

is this true?

if so, would you be taking the job because it would benefit you, or because it would give the relationship a shot, or both?

[Dungahass]

is this true?

if so, would you be taking the job because it would benefit you, or because it would give the relationship a shot, or both?

It's 100% true. No real offer yet, I've made it through two interviews and so far they seem interested. Next step would be to fly me down there for an in-person interview. I feel like it will happen but we'll see. To answer your question, I think its a bit of both. I'd be lying to you and to myself if I said I applied to a job in her city by pure chance. Sure I'm looking to change jobs, but that city would not be my first choice. On the other hand, its actually a cool job and a good opportunity, and the weather is better than where I'm at now. I wouldn't be looking at this job if its sole benefit would be to bring me close to her, since we're not together right now. But I'm also not sure I would take it if I found out that she was completely done with us.

ill be frank:

its not clear that there has ever been a lot of trust between the two of you.

being long distance makes this very, very difficult. you cant build much beyond what the two of you currently have with that distance.

You hit the nail on the head. The more I think about it, neither of us have really trusted each other, ever. We each have our own trust issues (hers is BPD-related, and mine is baggage-related), made worse by how we have handled commitment since we met. Our entire time knowing each other went like this, about dating: She wanted, then I wanted, then she wanted,  then I wanted, then she wanted, then I wanted, and finally she wanted, and now I want. But very rarely have we both wanted it 100% at the same time. So you're right, there is that lack of trust, and my words to her now are not changing that unfortunately.

the good news is that it sounds like there is still a level of attraction and interest. its not clear how much, or what the potential of it is. short term, you want to try to build on that. is any of the conversation flirty or romantic?

She hasn't reached out in over a week, and our last brief convo during that time was when I sent her my sympathies for her dad's death anniversary (she responded). I think she's currently on a 5 day holiday. Before that, she was being somewhat more communicative for a few days. I wouldn't say there was anything flirty. She did send me a bra and panties pic about 10 days ago, to show off her new weight loss figure after some diet she's been on. Sure, she was just showing off and maybe even testing me, but I also know she usually doesn't just send sexy pics when she feels nothing for me. Before that, a month ago, she texted me to say I'm the best sex she's ever had, and we talked about that a bit. She also a couple times told me about some lovey dovey things her little girl said about me recently, which my ex has done in the past when trying to get me hooked (she knows I have a humongous weakness for her little one). And a couple days ago I saw she had been online on whatsapp (I'm her only contact on the app), not sure what for exactly, but in the past its been an indication of cyber-stalking and that she's thinking about me and might reach out at some point. Aside from those admittedly small things, nothing new.

I had a chat with my therapist today about all this. I told him about the idea of telling her about my potential new job opportunity. Basically, if I get this job offer or if they fly me down, I'm thinking about having a chat with her, as positively as possible, to let her know about the job, that I want to give us a real try this time, in the same city, that I'd have my own place, that we could have an opportunity to really build something. A different "getting back together" convo than the previous ones, in that I want it to be positive, devoid of any desperation on my end, and less threatning/engulfing (the "I'd have my own place" part). We've had various issues, but I do think one of the pillars of our on-going trust issues is lack of commitment. She has multiple times told me she doesn't believe I want to marry her/move there. Maybe this can help reverse some of that mistrust. I can also see the potential for a bad reaction. My therapist thinks it might be a good test, a failure of which would be a sign that it's truly time to move on. Any thoughts? Short of this, I'm not sure what else I can do here to improve things.

[jaded7]

. The push-pull cycle is something we are all familiar with here, but even the details are the same- as in, you breaking up because of her moodswings, push-pull and constanct vocal negativity and invalidating your feelings, you regretting your decision, blaming yourself partially, being rejected when attempting to reconcile, pulling you back in anyway, you naturally feeling very insecure and wary because of past treatment and wanting reassurance, splitting starting when you try to address valid concerns about your relationship, her claiming you guys are not compatible for a list of reasons that increasingly loses touch with reality, and yet still harbouring strong feelings and expressing them often.
My ex would frequently drop the 'were incompatible-bomb' as well when I would address behaviours of hers of hers that invalidated me or when I drew boundaries.

 

I just want to say this rings so true with me. Invalidating feelings- harshly and angrily- when I express simple ideas of 'but we scheduled this on the calendar, together, and now you are cancelling even though you have yelled at me for 'cancelling' events we never calendared" or "is there a reason you've stopped communicating?"

Watching closely, hearing similar stories helps me see more clearly the pain I've suffered over the last 10-12 months.

[once removed]

She hasn't reached out in over a week, and our last brief convo during that time was when I sent her my sympathies for her dad's death anniversary (she responded). I think she's currently on a 5 day holiday. Before that, she was being somewhat more communicative for a few days.

youre going to need to give this time. i lost my dad around two years ago, and its life changing, all consuming in the best case scenario. life stops.

. She did send me a bra and panties pic about 10 days ago, to show off her new weight loss figure after some diet she's been on. Sure, she was just showing off and maybe even testing me, but I also know she usually doesn't just send sexy pics when she feels nothing for me. Before that, a month ago, she texted me to say I'm the best sex she's ever had, and we talked about that a bit. She also a couple times told me about some lovey dovey things her little girl said about me recently, which my ex has done in the past when trying to get me hooked (she knows I have a humongous weakness for her little one).

i think this all speaks to something you can potentially build on. "best sex ive ever had" is the kind of thing people get hung up on.

Basically, if I get this job offer or if they fly me down, I'm thinking about having a chat with her, as positively as possible, to let her know about the job, that I want to give us a real try this time, in the same city, that I'd have my own place, that we could have an opportunity to really build something. A different "getting back together" convo than the previous ones, in that I want it to be positive, devoid of any desperation on my end, and less threatning/engulfing (the "I'd have my own place" part).

what if you get the job offer and just let her know about it, and gauge her reaction? maybe hold off on the talk about getting back together?

what do you think?

[Dungahass]

Thanks, once removed. I've mulled over the whole idea of telling her I want to get back together. Perhaps its not a bad idea to just tell her about the job offer, if it comes, and gauge her reaction. But I do want to let her know, somehow, that I've not given up on her, and that the job is a lot about her. She was thinking of moving to another city 3 hours away, so I'm worried if I don't make my intentions clear, and soon, she might have a job offer of her own.

She's not the type to dwell on her dad's death, so somehow I don't think this latest radio silence is because she's in shambles over the one year death anniversary. I've become a bit panic-stricken these last few days, worried the lack of communication is a sign she's moving on. I've thought about sending her a "how's it going, thinking of you" type of message. I'd love to hear what you think about that?

[once removed]

I've become a bit panic-stricken these last few days, worried the lack of communication is a sign she's moving on.

she, by and large, has moved on. its been a year.

thats not to say you cant reconcile the relationship, get her back. its not to say there isnt attraction there.

it is to say shes not in the day to day, interaction by interaction, waiting mode that youre in. and the strongest place you can be is, as much as possible (i understand youre on a board actively seeking advice on how to get her back), to get out of that place yourself.

I've thought about sending her a "how's it going, thinking of you" type of message. I'd love to hear what you think about that?

i would ask both what can it hurt, and what can it achieve.

it probably wouldnt hurt anything. it probably wouldnt achieve much, either.

i suspect though, that the urge comes from that panic, that place of anxiety that tells you youll lose her and you need to act. i know the feeling very well.

in general, whatever message youre going to send should ideally come from a place of confidence rather than anxiety.

specifically, a few days or even a couple of weeks, in the grand scheme of things, is not a significant amount of time. its not going to make or break your chances.

psychologically speaking, if she has lingering thoughts of you, it wouldnt be a bad position to be in if she wonders why she hasnt heard from you, wonders if youve moved on, wonders what youre up to, wonders whether youre out there focusing on other things, building your life up, etc.

but thats likely to take more than a few days to register.

[Dungahass]

she, by and large, has moved on. its been a year.

thats not to say you cant reconcile the relationship, get her back. its not to say there isnt attraction there.

I guess my mind keeps going back to that period, in September/October, where she ran after me again and was open to moving here to me. But you're right, most of her actions have shown that she has lost most of her connection to me, even when she was chasing

i understand youre on a board actively seeking advice on how to get her back), to get out of that place yourself.

And there is the conundrum . These boards have helped, but I also feel like browsing them obsessively looking for help helps keep me stuck in this rut.

i suspect though, that the urge comes from that panic, that place of anxiety that tells you youll lose her and you need to act. i know the feeling very well.

Yeah that's that thing, deep down I know its from the anxiety and can't think of how a single message would help much, other than to alleviate my own panic. On the flip side, there is a huge chance it would make me feel worse, like it often has.

in general, whatever message youre going to send should ideally come from a place of confidence rather than anxiety.

She's smart enough to detect my anxiety and panic and desperation, even through text messaging. She'll see right through it, and its not a position I wanna be in.

specifically, a few days or even a couple of weeks, in the grand scheme of things, is not a significant amount of time. its not going to make or break your chances.

psychologically speaking, if she has lingering thoughts of you, it wouldnt be a bad position to be in if she wonders why she hasnt heard from you, wonders if youve moved on, wonders what youre up to, wonders whether youre out there focusing on other things, building your life up, etc.

These are the things that I keep forgetting the most, and that I need to remember the most. A message or a week or a month are drops in the bucket. They won't change much. It's just that I've finding it hard to integrate that in the process, and the 5% I mentioned in the other thread takes over.