I've had it Part 2

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Mod Note:  part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341792.0;all

Thanks for the replies.
I've been rereading and remembering things I'd thought I had learned 3 years ago.
This may sound like I'm full of BS but it's true or I would have never have found this site in the first place.
I am kind and considerate, I have empathy and I care about people.
Don't get me wrong I can snap as well, but it takes a lot of pushing.
I realise I have some caretaker and maybe codependency traits.
I also know I ignored some red flags early on but that was because I was giving her the benefit of the doubt in case I was being paranoid and seeing things that weren't there, and sometimes you have to just take a chance.
I also know that this woman has traits that are like crossovers from NPD and BPD.
Talking to her about how she has hurt my feelings with her words or actions was always met with anger from her or replies that made zero sense because they had nothing to do with what I had just said.
I was called too sensitive and I was imagining things, and she say we hadn't made plans etc.
Well I maybe a lot of things but bonkers isn't one of them, I wouldn't be cooking a meal for us to take to her house if we hadn't planned it.
I think I was gaslighted a lot of times and I was questioning my own mind and sanity, but isn't that the aim of gaslighting someone?
I was putting things down to maybe she had a bad memory but it happened too many times.
I was making excuses for her behaviour when the truth is she was disrespectful and inconsiderate.
I'll write some more shortly.

[In a bad way]

Mod Note:  part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341792.0;all

Thanks for the replies.
I've been rereading and remembering things I'd thought I had learned 3 years ago.
This may sound like I'm full of BS but it's true or I would have never have found this site in the first place.
I am kind and considerate, I have empathy and I care about people.
Don't get me wrong I can snap as well, but it takes a lot of pushing.
I realise I have some caretaker and maybe codependency traits.
I also know I ignored some red flags early on but that was because I was giving her the benefit of the doubt in case I was being paranoid and seeing things that weren't there, and sometimes you have to just take a chance.
I also know that this woman has traits that are like crossovers from NPD and BPD.
Talking to her about how she has hurt my feelings with her words or actions was always met with anger from her or replies that made zero sense because they had nothing to do with what I had just said.
I was called too sensitive and I was imagining things, and she say we hadn't made plans etc.
Well I maybe a lot of things but bonkers isn't one of them, I wouldn't be cooking a meal for us to take to her house if we hadn't planned it.
I think I was gaslighted a lot of times and I was questioning my own mind and sanity, but isn't that the aim of gaslighting someone?
I was putting things down to maybe she had a bad memory but it happened too many times.
I was making excuses for her behaviour when the truth is she was disrespectful and inconsiderate.
I'll write some more shortly.

[In a bad way]

Cromwell hits the nail on the head here. The only way you can move on is when you stop and see that the pattern keeps repeating and nothing changes. You have to be willing to change and do things differently or essentially you are following the path and definition of insanity. Think of this as a karmic relationship. Patterns, behaviors, relationships keep repeating and get put into your path until you learn the lessons that are necessary.

 

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

I was typing at the same time as you were, yes you are both correct.

[In a bad way]

On another note I'm worried about her now being on the scene with my friends especially the female ones and what she is saying, she knows a couple from years ago so she won't be going away, and as I said she doesn't appear to have any of her own. My other friends have only known her as long as I have, they have known me for years.
On the previous occasions we have split up she has been out a lot when normally she wouldn't have. One female friend said her and her husband had noticed this that she comes out all dolled up and flaunting herself.
I suspect she will be out tonight and I was torn between going or not because if I'm not there it's a victory to her she will think I'm too depressed to go out.
But on the other hand my not being there will have defeated the object of her going and also she will expect me to be there in case she does.
Sorry I know that last bit sounds a bit over thinking crazy, but my brain chemistry has not yet reset.

[SinisterComplex]

First, do not apologize. You have nothing to apologize for. I do not judge you. I am here to help and I care to see you do better and to overcome your situation. However, yes it is overthinking and shows insecurity. Why do you care about winning/losing or what she thinks? I'm going to go old school The Rock from his wrestling days and utter one of his many famous phrases..."It doesn't Matter!"

This is no game. You have a life to live...your own. Your goal is to live your life on your own terms and level up. Quit letting your thinking be affected by her. It may or may not be your jam, but listen to Hopsin False Advertisement...focus on the lyrics and the message. Seriously man you will be fine, but don't let any woman or person ever have this kind of effect on you ever again. Walk your own path and do You.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[In a bad way]

It sounds suspicious that she is on whattsapp/fb all day but tells you she was asleep.

Would you say that the petty stuff is making you weary?

When SC talks about moving on, for my own experience, it was only the continual exposure to repeated folly that eventually led me to become wiser.

When it comes to so called "small" or "petty" things, the quote - small leaks sink great ships comes to mind.

I say this in hindsight and only by three years of continual disappointments that led to weighing up time, by that point there was next to zero joy left in the r/s and only misery.

I know you say it is petty and I stand by you on that, but I cant escape that it was important enough to come here and talk about? I just have a hunch that some of this might be downplayed and there is more going on - we could talk about upset and disappointment if you feel up for it.

Yes upset and hurt and disappointed when someone I love and who says she loves me and I do anything for at the drop of a hat can't be bothered to answer a message for hours, or send me a message to keep me up to date with her change of our plans.
It's the lack of consideration and thoughtlessness that I could not fathom.
Also splitting up with me every time we had an argument and then when I did it out of pure frustration she disappears which looks like for good.
Also whenever I tried to express something to her about her actions it was dismissed with insulting replies.
She never did anything wrong in her eyes, she only ever apologised once and that was when she was in tears for saying the things she said over Xmas.
Replying to a heartfelt message on Xmas day from me with "your'e hurting awwww" implies she was taking pleasure from the fact and to me that's narcissistic.
Ghosting by not answering for hours is either a power trip (again narcissistic) to her or she is just plain ignorant.
Then there is the gaslighting.
And replying to my saying to her about how I feel about things by calling me pathetic and stupid etc and a whole lot worse is not how a relationship should be. It should be give and take 50/50 and compromise and understanding and listen and communicate, not hurl insults at me. Yes as I've said I end up saying bad things back but one of her last messages is about the things I said to her that weren't nice, she has forgotten quickly the things she said to me.
According to her she has never put me down or belittled me which she has many times, maybe she just doesn't realise it?
Maybe she isn't on any spectrum and she is just not intelligent. Maybe just thick? I don't mean that in a bad way but there are some numb people around.
But she has only ever taken any responsibility for her actions the one time.
I don't think she is capable of giving or receiving love, I would never leave her waiting or not tell her something has come up, it takes seconds to send a message, but no I read between the lines and figure out she has changed the plans and then ask her about it and she either says we didn't have any or just says "oh we'll have to do that another day", but she'd had 24 hours on one occasion to give me notice.
There are many, many examples and it all mounts up.

[Cromwell]

What do you feel about her continually calling you a perfectionist, but you mention that she has herself claims to have never done wrong?

Im not a therapist or anything, just an average guy, but I think they call that sort of stuff: projection or something.

[In a bad way]

What do you feel about her continually calling you a perfectionist, but you mention that she has herself claims to have never done wrong?

Im not a therapist or anything, just an average guy, but I think they call that sort of stuff: projection or something.

It's one of her favourite ways to put me down, you read the message she sent me, there was no need for that as a reply.
I don't know where she is coming from with that, I've never claimed to be perfect, I'm not big headed and if you asked any of my friends if I think I'm perfect they would laugh.
If I said to her all you needed to do was send one message as I would have to you and we wouldn't be arguing then the response would be "yeah you would because your're perfect".
I walked on eggshells with her, not just in person but via messages, thinking whether I was wording everything right, rereading messages before sending just in case she took it the wrong way.
But she was always saying she walked on eggshells with me, A term she had never heard of, and not true.
She took everything as criticism when it wasn't.
I remember sending her a message telling her I was an idiot because I had burned my pizza, I wouldn't if I thought I was perfect, so I have no idea.

[Cromwell]

On another note I'm worried about her now being on the scene with my friends especially the female ones and what she is saying, she knows a couple from years ago so she won't be going away, and as I said she doesn't appear to have any of her own. My other friends have only known her as long as I have, they have known me for years.

How much have you shared with them about the relationship? Do they have a clear picture of all the problems that have been going on?

[SinisterComplex]

It's one of her favourite ways to put me down, you read the message she sent me, there was no need for that as a reply.
I don't know where she is coming from with that, I've never claimed to be perfect, I'm not big headed and if you asked any of my friends if I think I'm perfect they would laugh.
If I said to her all you needed to do was send one message as I would have to you and we wouldn't be arguing then the response would be "yeah you would because your're perfect".
I walked on eggshells with her, not just in person but via messages, thinking whether I was wording everything right, rereading messages before sending just in case she took it the wrong way.
But she was always saying she walked on eggshells with me, A term she had never heard of, and not true.
She took everything as criticism when it wasn't.
I remember sending her a message telling her I was an idiot because I had burned my pizza, I wouldn't if I thought I was perfect, so I have no idea.

So you do realize you have the power to end all of this right? How I am seeing your responses is that she is the puppet master and you are a puppet and she is pulling all the strings. So the best thing you can do...don't play the game. She is dictating your behavior and your mind has been taken over by her. Eff that noise. Put a stop to that please. Yes I do see that you are a humble person. I see that you are a nice and good person. This is also why this cycle is being perpetuated.

Please understand I am on your side actually. However, what I won't do is allow you to continue on a destructive path to hurting yourself both mentally and emotionally. You have to want to heal and grow though. Go over everything you have typed out/written. How does it make you feel? What do you make of all this? Is any person worth all of this torment? Is this love? Is this what love is supposed to be? I'll tell you...that is a big hell to the F to the U to the C to the K NO!

Want better, expect better, do better!

I could take the side of trying to explain this disorder in depth and coming from that perspective, but that will do you no good right now. For right now I am on your team and I am all about helping you improve your self-confidence and self-worth.

If you continue to post and vent and then I see some real progress perhaps we will revisit discussing the disorder from a scientific point of view. Until that time though...lets focus on getting you to a good place so you can get stronger and a better YOU? What do you say to that?

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-

[once removed]

I've been rereading and remembering things I'd thought I had learned 3 years ago.
This may sound like I'm full of BS but it's true or I would have never have found this site in the first place.
I am kind and considerate, I have empathy and I care about people.
Don't get me wrong I can snap as well, but it takes a lot of pushing.
I realise I have some caretaker and maybe codependency traits.
I also know I ignored some red flags early on but that was because I was giving her the benefit of the doubt in case I was being paranoid and seeing things that weren't there, and sometimes you have to just take a chance.

after the relationship that brought me here, about a year later, i had mostly moved on, and thought it was time to get back out there.

i connected with a gal i knew in high school. a gal that, specifically, told me she was "bad news".

even aside from that, there were several signs early on that i was probably barking up the wrong tree. but i continued to pursue it.

things kind of fizzled out after not too long, we werent ever really going to go anywhere. a year or so later, i saw the photo of a guy who she had dated after shed taken a hammer to his face, and i read where she proceeded to savage him all over social media. yikes.

sometime after that, i connected with another gal. i was in a boring, kind of lonely phase in my life, she gave me a lot of attention, she was very attractive, and it filled a void. she was a little bit hard to get, and in retrospect, i way over pursued and it ended with my heart broken.

i wondered how and why id chosen this path after what id been through and the lessons i thought id learned. it wasnt long after that that i came back to this site, and i started to take my recovery to the next level. i started to see some things, about myself, that werent so easy to see, and were hard to face. the silver lining is that doing that work freed me from that cycle.

a lot of us dont fully grieve the relationships that brought us here, and a lot of us dont fully learn the lessons that they can teach us, and instead, we carry our baggage into the next relationship, and even the next.

one of the things i learned when i came back here is that we tend to seek out partners who have the same level of emotional maturity that we do. "the same level" doesnt mean that it manifests in exactly the same way - for example, im not the sort of jealous person that my ex was, and by and large, i dont have the struggles with emotional regulation that she does. but in terms of how we coped in life and relationships, we were on a similar plane. and the other thing i learned is that its good to seek a greater level of maturity than we had in that relationship.

i can tell that you are hurting over the fall out youve had. over the things shes said and done. it sucks. whats going on now is not what you wanted  

when youre in that position, you can do three things.

1. try a radically different approach, commit to it, see if you can drive the relationship in a healthier trajectory
2. recognize that its a dead end relationship, let go, grieve
3. keep doing what youre doing

its not immediately clear to me which path you want to take, but it reads like a case of this being a dead end, with a "keep doing what youre doing" approach. thats going to end in more heartache for you.

i also sense, in your hurt, that you want to dig deeper, and understand all of this and how to proceed. how can we help

[In a bad way]

I just want to say thank you to people that have replied.
I can't put my feelings into words right now, but I will.

[jaded7]

This post of yours is the closest I've read to my situation. I could have written it myself. This stuff is so crazy making, when all you have is love for this person and you know you would drop anything to help her in any way. But they seem to set up 'tests' and move goalposts on you, and change history and deny conversation or plans...etc. etc..

Yes upset and hurt and disappointed when someone I love and who says she loves me and I do anything for at the drop of a hat can't be bothered to answer a message for hours, or send me a message to keep me up to date with her change of our plans.
It's the lack of consideration and thoughtlessness that I could not fathom.

Ditto. I told her many times I would literally do anything for her. And in my case, she would go days, or even a week, without responding to a text or call. I would usually find out later she was 'mad' at me for something (like asking her out to lunch)

Also splitting up with me every time we had an argument and then when I did it out of pure frustration she disappears which looks like for good.
Also whenever I tried to express something to her about her actions it was dismissed with insulting replies.

Ditto. Not once could I talk to her about her behavior. The very first time she ghosted me for a couple of days I sent her a text saying "Is there a reason why aren't communicating with me? I'm worried and not sleeping great" she picked up the phone, called me and without even saying hello yelled at me "you need to work on this in therapy!"
She never did anything wrong in her eyes, she only ever apologised once and that was when she was in tears for saying the things she said over Xmas.

Same. I can remember maybe one apology after a yelling episode where she said she shouldn't have "brought in the kitchen sink", but no "I'm sorry" or "I apologize", it was "I shouldn't have..."

Replying to a heartfelt message on Xmas day from me with "your'e hurting awwww" implies she was taking pleasure from the fact and to me that's narcissistic.

Ghosting by not answering for hours is either a power trip (again narcissistic) to her or she is just plain ignorant.

I've learned that she did this when she was mad, which means punishing and cruel power trip. Coupled with the breadcrumb texts every day or so "busy", that it. Which is, see your next point, lying gaslighting.

Then there is the gaslighting.
And replying to my saying to her about how I feel about things by calling me pathetic and stupid etc and a whole lot worse is not how a relationship should be. It should be give and take 50/50 and compromise and understanding and listen and communicate, not hurl insults at me.

Correct. Name calling like you wouldn't believe. Look at my threads if you are interested. And always her way, at all times. Never wanting to do things I like, just to share my interests or just spend time with me. "Wanna go to a new brewery with me?" -"No, I hate breweries". "but just to spend time together and learn about some new beer?" "No, have a friend to go with you". Etc, etc.

Yes as I've said I end up saying bad things back but one of her last messages is about the things I said to her that weren't nice, she has forgotten quickly the things she said to me.

On this I'm SOO glad I've never raised my voice to her, called her a name or snapped at her. My friends and family, when I relate the conversations, are astounded I didn't just loose it.

According to her she has never put me down or belittled me which she has many times, maybe she just doesn't realise it?
Maybe she isn't on any spectrum and she is just not intelligent. Maybe just thick? I don't mean that in a bad way but there are some numb people around.

But she has only ever taken any responsibility for her actions the one time.

Yep.

I don't think she is capable of giving or receiving love, I would never leave her waiting or not tell her something has come up, it takes seconds to send a message, but no I read between the lines and figure out she has changed the plans and then ask her about it and she either says we didn't have any or just says "oh we'll have to do that another day", but she'd had 24 hours on one occasion to give me notice.

Mine says "oh, miscommunication". that's her favorite when I floored that she cancels and clear plan we had, or pretends we didn't take about something we were doing. But God forbid I 'forget' something she mentioned in passing weeks or months earlier- at that point I get a lecture followed by name calling and yelling that I don't care and am a child.
There are many, many examples and it all mounts up.

[SinisterComplex]

This post of yours is the closest I've read to my situation. I could have written it myself. This stuff is so crazy making, when all you have is love for this person and you know you would drop anything to help her in any way. But they seem to set up 'tests' and move goalposts on you, and change history and deny conversation or plans...etc. etc..

What you speak is truth. This is the nature of the beast and textbook basically regardless of gender no less. By no means am I discounting your feelings or thoughts here, but rather just pointing out that hey don't feel alone and don't feel that it was just the person you have dealt with that is like this. Sadly, this is quite typical.

Now to help understand something...they do not necessarily change history. Disordered individuals truly have forgotten or their memory is fragmented and distorted because of the way their brain chemistry is wired. This is based on whole object relations...i.e. object constancy and object permanence. The theory and ideal come from Sigmund Freud. As an example...its like this...If we can see it, feel it, taste it, touch it, we believe it. If we can't, we question it. To add onto that...disordered individuals are all about living in the moment because that is all they really can do. Again...your feelings are valid, but definitely don't take it personally and don't beat yourself up.

This is a true scenario of where you have to learn that it really is them and not you and its not a lame rejection or excuse because you are not dealing with someone who understands the world through a normal lens like yourself.

Hopefully that provides some kind of solace for you.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[In a bad way]

I've been taking stock of things and trying to gather my thoughts.
jaded7 I have read a lot of your posts and there are similarities, the one that strikes me is your football match one.
We were supposed to be going to a presentation for her niece but the niece had been unwell so it wasn't 100% that we were going and it was 2 days away.
I had spent all day taking her everywhere she wanted because she had no car that day and the next day my messages were ignored, so the day after is presentation day and I am expecting confirmation that she is going. I got nothing until four hours after it started and it had just finished.
She sent a message saying she thought I was coming, I replied with I was waiting for her to confirm she was going and she said she thought I would have come at the end.
I asked her what the point of that would have been?
She replied with "OK whatever"
I told her she knew I was looking forward to it and she should have text to say she was going or was there, she said I should have just gone.
I tried to explain I was only going if she was and she knew that and why would I go without her?
She didn't answer, we were supposed to be going out that night and I was picking her up and she was meant to text 20 minutes before, well I got a text very late at night asking if I'd gone out, I said no and she said she was in bed.
I asked what happened to the plans for that night and she denied we had made any.
So she let me down by not letting me know she was at the presentation and again at night.
She didn't continue the conversation in the afternoon when I told her how disappointed I was with her, and why it took her four hours to notice I wasn't there, she could have text after half an hour to let me know.
She couldn't grasp she had done anything wrong and then defended herself buy saying I would have hated it anyway.
It took two weeks for her to say sorry and admit she should have let me know.
So that was twice she let me down that day and left me sat at home wondering and waiting. To me that is showing no respect for me.
Then like you she left me on my own on Xmas day which was when she sent the "your'e hurting awww" message when I told her how devastated I was and had had no dinner, she was supposed to be coming for dinner, I had bought the lot. She replied with " I've had a lovely dinner at my mums thanks"...Narcissistic replies.
I've watched a lot of videos on the Narcissistic side of BPD and I am amazed at one in particular where the things she said matched word for word.
I will give some examples of when I tried to explain how she had hurt me and how much I loved her.
She would say..
Here we go again.
Get a grip.
It's all about you.
Grow up.
I will do what I want when I want with who I want.

There are more and all match the video, that is not how you reply to someone who loves you and you say you love them.
Plus there are the change of subject to where I never got answers just more confused by replies that were crazy and I lost track, which is a narcs game plan.
Or totally invalidated for my feelings and derisive remarks when I was being loving and caring.
It helps me to reread old messages because I can confirm I wasn't imagining things and also shows how cold and callus she was to my feelings.

[In a bad way]

Also I or any of us should not have to reread messages before sending to make sure there is nothing she could take the wrong way. She is great at turning a loving message into an argument and belittle me.

[Cromwell]

It is one of the sad dilemma to my own story that I feel I notice parallel to yours inabadway.

We can whine and gripe and have all the sensible and rational proclamations of how things should be in a relationship and where they have continually upturned the apple cart.

It helps to vent. Yet venting doesn't change the structural defects. You can't have high expectations from a person with that level of emotional labile extremes of impulse. My ex would do anything for me in an Instant, short term basis, when she was in that mood. But there was little point in making plans to happen days or weeks away and hope they would happen. It all depended on her mood on that day.

Many times my ex also did stuff early in the relationship she might not otherwise have done. It is rooted in impulsovoty and eagerness to please. The rest of sensible part of mind gets suspended in those moments. It is why I'm not on the side of narc manipulation theories. With bpd at least my own take on my own relationship my ex could just as much be manipulated more than what she did to others.

Take the feel good intoxicating part to one side and really ask yourself is it anywhere near normal behavior. Despite it feeling amazing, is there something not quite right here?

I was too swept away by my own emotions pegged to hers to ask myself what really should have been sensible qs to reflect on. I think I recall you have bouts of depression? I did too, it plays a profound part to these relationship dynamics and attraction. To bpd in particular, the highs of the relationship as a depression relief. It plays with our perceptions these chemical imbalances.

[In a bad way]

It is one of the sad dilemma to my own story that I feel I notice parallel to yours inabadway.

We can whine and gripe and have all the sensible and rational proclamations of how things should be in a relationship and where they have continually upturned the apple cart.

It helps to vent. Yet venting doesn't change the structural defects. You can't have high expectations from a person with that level of emotional labile extremes of impulse. My ex would do anything for me in an Instant, short term basis, when she was in that mood. But there was little point in making plans to happen days or weeks away and hope they would happen. It all depended on her mood on that day.

Many times my ex also did stuff early in the relationship she might not otherwise have done. It is rooted in impulsovoty and eagerness to please. The rest of sensible part of mind gets suspended in those moments. It is why I'm not on the side of narc manipulation theories. With bpd at least my own take on my own relationship my ex could just as much be manipulated more than what she did to others.

Take the feel good intoxicating part to one side and really ask yourself is it anywhere near normal behavior. Despite it feeling amazing, is there something not quite right here?

I was too swept away by my own emotions pegged to hers to ask myself what really should have been sensible qs to reflect on. I think I recall you have bouts of depression? I did too, it plays a profound part to these relationship dynamics and attraction. To bpd in particular, the highs of the relationship as a depression relief. It plays with our perceptions these chemical imbalances.

You are correct as is everyone else who as replied, knowing something and doing it is different, it's hard.
I just feel so sad, and yes a bit annoyed...I'm only human.
It's all a massive shame.
When I refer to narcs, I mean the crossover between BPD and NPD, they have the same characteristics.

[Cromwell]

Do you mean because they are in cluster B group? Or C or something I can't even recall. Nvm

It is tricky ground to walk on here and I have no doubt there have been associations made by others with their own agendas but the ones I have heard are weak links at best, mostly just ranting and name-calling.

It has as much clout as my associating her with satan and pointing out similar characteristics. If I do a convincing job of it and people believed it and thumbs up my YouTube channel, then that is the power of influence and belief.

Does it make it so though.?

I know you are only human and this is a valid excuse, I would never stop you from going to see her if that is what you want. It's entirely your choice as a human adult man

[SinisterComplex]

Do you mean because they are in cluster B group? Or C or something I can't even recall. Nvm

It is tricky ground to walk on here and I have no doubt there have been associations made by others with their own agendas but the ones I have heard are weak links at best, mostly just ranting and name-calling.

It has as much clout as my associating her with satan and pointing out similar characteristics. If I do a convincing job of it and people believed it and thumbs up my YouTube channel, then that is the power of influence and belief.

Does it make it so though.?

I know you are only human and this is a valid excuse, I would never stop you from going to see her if that is what you want. It's entirely your choice as a human adult man

I will agree with Crom here in saying be careful with saying narcs. BPD, NPD, cluster B's...there can be similar crossover traits. However, there is also the possibility that BPD, NPD are not in play. We could go the route of discussing attachment disorders here, PTSD, Fear of intimacy, etc. The point is...don't focus so much on the labeling or categorizing. Focus on the behavior(s) and the individual specifically. I will also say that do what you feel is in your own best interest regardless of what anyone else says...you have free will and the choices and decisions you make are your own.

"You are correct as is everyone else who as replied, knowing something and doing it is different, it's hard.
I just feel so sad, and yes a bit annoyed...I'm only human.
It's all a massive shame.
When I refer to narcs, I mean the crossover between BPD and NPD, they have the same characteristics."

You are human...we all are. We all eff things up time to time. It is part of the human experience and living life. Be willing to make mistakes though, but then learn from them so you can grow, adapt, and evolve. Kevin Hart said it best..."“I don’t like it when people act like you planned to eff up!” he says. “Nobody plans to eff up! That’s why it’s called a eff up! “You don’t walk outside like today is the perfect day for a eff up. ‘Oh, I’m effing up all day today. This is eff up weather!’ That’s not how it happens! The important thing is to learn from it! You gotta learn from your eff ups.”

I hope you derive some laughs and humor from that. Take it easy on yourself. Also, its not about being right or wrong...the point or intent is to show care, empathy, and help you sift through your thoughts and emotions and perhaps make a difference by providing different viewpoints to help you make better informed decisions.

Just take your time and process your feelings and thoughts...don't rush anything.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[In a bad way]

Maybe it is wrong to label them but at the end of the day you can't argue with the facts, which are she has narcissistic traits.
The things she has said and done are narcissistic, like posting on facebook on Valentine's day that she is looking for someone else and derogatory comments relating to me even though she didn't say my name. And that was after spending the last two weeks texting each other and getting on well as friends...She won't here from me again.

[once removed]

In a bad way,

friend, youre kind of spinning in circles.

how can we help you get to steady ground?

what do you want out of this relationship? it sounds like her respect is particularly important to you.

do you want to be in a better way?

[In a bad way]

In a bad way,

friend, youre kind of spinning in circles.

how can we help you get to steady ground?

what do you want out of this relationship? it sounds like her respect is particularly important to you.

do you want to be in a better way?

Yes I'm spinning in circles, aren't we all?
I don't mean you any disrespect by that my head is all over the place.
Yes her respect is important to me but she has none, nor did she have any when we were together, hence not bothering to text to let me know things and then when questioned about it she turned it into my fault and I ended up apologising to her for upsetting her when all I did was ask her a question as to why she had let me down. Then I end up thinking WTF just happened there. (We have all experienced the WTF moments that don't make sense and leave us confused).
Yesterday she was posting on facebook on Valentine's day that she is looking for someone else and derogatory comments relating to me even though she didn't say my name. And that was after spending the last two weeks texting each other and getting on well as friends.
I heard nothing from her, then tonight I got a message asking if I'm OK WTF?
She's sick and twisted.
As for how you can help get me on steady ground? I really don't know except for listening and posting as you are, which I very much appreciate, thank you.

[once removed]

Yes I'm spinning in circles, aren't we all?

sure. when most of us come here, our self esteem is crashing, and its hard to tell which way is up. i know that was true for me.

the thing about a good support group is that it can help us get to steady ground. if we embrace that process, others can help us get there.

whats happening right now is that youre trying (or have been trying) to navigate some form of relationship with this person, whether romantic, or friends, and youre not seeking any support in that, which is your choice. but when it goes badly, youre back here telling us how much she sucks, looking for the validation of us agreeing with you. but then, you go right back to it.

that approach is keeping you stuck, frustrated, and hurt.

I realise I have some caretaker and maybe codependency traits.

Yes her respect is important to me but she has none, nor did she have any when we were together,

heres the thing about respect, codependency, and your circumstances.

seeking her respect (you say she has none and never did), and then cutting her off when she doesnt give it, and then going back to see if shes changed, is not a way to gain respect. and it isnt self respecting either.

a lot of us got caught up in trying to change our exs behavior, in trying to teach them how to treat us, in trying to teach them lessons, in trying to teach them to be who we wanted them to be. this is really the essence of codependency.

all of this may be confusing because you ultimately arent sure where you stand, or at least, you havent been. is this about residual romantic feelings, a real desire to be friends, some mixture of both, or is it more about the personal struggle of winning her respect? when you determine the answer to that question, things get clearer, and easier, to navigate.

if you have a real desire to be friends, either remaining romantic feelings, or the desire to win her respect may be complicating that, and you may need some space. you also may have unrealistic expectations of what a friendship after a romantic relationship looks like.

im pretty good friends with an ex. our relationship ended badly, really really badly, though that was about fifteen years ago; its water under the bridge, but thats some context...it took a very long time for us to transition to being friends, and it wasnt ever remotely the same.

i lost my dad a little over two years ago. i got a lot of support initially. the ex reached out to me and asked how i was doing. she suggested that we get together and go out for a drink. i appreciated the offer, a lot, and told her id like that. she said shed reach out that week. i never heard from her.

i could have seen that as carelessness or thoughtlessness, or a lack of respect. i could have seen it as malicious or cruel or sick, or a game. odds are she forgot, or something came up, life happens. she has pretty bad social anxiety. maybe she wanted to make the offer but had no real intention of following through. i dont know. i was disappointed, but i still appreciated the gesture all the same.

hence not bothering to text to let me know things and then when questioned about it she turned it into my fault and I ended up apologising to her for upsetting her when all I did was ask her a question as to why she had let me down.

and maybe, similarly, this isnt a sick game designed to mess with your head. maybe your ex is flaky. maybe she changed her mind and thought youd be mad if she cancelled. maybe she forgot. maybe, like most exes turned friends, she isnt very committed to the friendship.

its hard to say, but regardless, what is clear, is that trying to get her to change this about herself is just frustrating and hurtful to you, not productive.

the easiest way to get along with someone, if thats what you want to do, is accept them for who they are. that doesnt mean liking those things about them. it means realizing those things are unlikely to change about them, and working with the reality you have in front of you.

if thats not fulfilling to you, which is a very reasonable way to feel, or if she is indeed sick and twisted, accept that that too is unlikely to change, and slowly, but surely, walk away.

[jaded7]

Also I or any of us should not have to reread messages before sending to make sure there is nothing she could take the wrong way. She is great at turning a loving message into an argument and belittle me.

I missed this latter part of the thread. But this ALSO I can confirm: rereading my text messages so that I don't get scolded and 'make her mad'. Exactly, I'll share with you an example by email or later...but really, I so identify with your frustration with the disrespectful behavior.