He Finally Responded: Help Needed Part 2

[Depression = 72% of members]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342257.0

Well, peace didn’t last long.

We had planned to get coffee together this past Saturday and he scheduled something else.  I mentioned that it’s things like this that feel hurtful, as if I’m in last place, his last priority.  He said, “We’re not living together, it’s not like I have to check in with you.”

I could tell by his childish, spiteful tone that I’d hit a nerve.  He said we could meet Sunday and I told him the expectation that I have to change my schedule at his discretion felt very controlling and was not acceptable.  I said I could understand he was meeting with a sponsoree on Saturday but in the future I’d like to be taken into consideration.  His tone over the phone told me he was angry at me and this wasn’t going to end well.

We talked that evening after that (this happened on Wednesday morning last week).  Haven’t heard from him since and the silent treatment is now in full effect.

How can anyone be in a relationship with someone where you can’t ever ask to be respected without it triggering them?

Did I shame him by asking to be respected?  Is he just a spoiled rotten child?  Is it because he’s an abusive control freak with narcissistic traits?

Input appreciated.  He controls when and if we see each other and communicate.  Being shut out hurts.  People close to me just tell me he’s abusive and to divorce and move on.

He’s hard to love.  Any insight is greatly appreciated.  I’m tired of this and I’m lonely.  I have friends but it’s not the same.  Our relationship (married to uBPDh and separated two plus years, no divorce) has deteriorated over the years since he left.  He used to care about my feelings but his tendency to run home to his parents has always been his exit when he feels slighted.  He said it was the only way he could self soothe, getting away.  Is he telling the truth or am I just being conned and manipulated?

Also, he’s told me he can’t guarantee he’ll ever move home and that he’s 50/50 on whether to divorce or stay married and keep trying.  Well, he’s more of a 99/1 split on divorce/stay married from what I see in his behavior.  He’s not making an effort and me not ending the marriage just sends a signal that I’ll take his disrespect and take him back every time.

One other thing, once he got me hooked into the relationship the tables turned and he became the distanced and I started pursuing.  My P said he doesn’t think he’s borderline but I spoke with someone with a grown child with diagnosed BPD and she told me my H’s clinging behavior to his parents it’s dead on for his fear of abandonment.

If he won’t commit to healing our marriage then why doesn’t he just divorce me?  I never wanted divorce but he refused to let us heal.  We do great together but he always runs.  Is running away a BPD trait?  I know fear of abandonment is a listed trait but this running behavior isn’t mentioned in the official criteria so he confuses me..

And let’s face it, I think about how it could be with a different man who will actually show up for the relationship and take accountability.  It crosses my mind quite a bit.

[2Loyal2Long]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342257.0

Well, peace didn’t last long.

We had planned to get coffee together this past Saturday and he scheduled something else.  I mentioned that it’s things like this that feel hurtful, as if I’m in last place, his last priority.  He said, “We’re not living together, it’s not like I have to check in with you.”

I could tell by his childish, spiteful tone that I’d hit a nerve.  He said we could meet Sunday and I told him the expectation that I have to change my schedule at his discretion felt very controlling and was not acceptable.  I said I could understand he was meeting with a sponsoree on Saturday but in the future I’d like to be taken into consideration.  His tone over the phone told me he was angry at me and this wasn’t going to end well.

We talked that evening after that (this happened on Wednesday morning last week).  Haven’t heard from him since and the silent treatment is now in full effect.

How can anyone be in a relationship with someone where you can’t ever ask to be respected without it triggering them?

Did I shame him by asking to be respected?  Is he just a spoiled rotten child?  Is it because he’s an abusive control freak with narcissistic traits?

Input appreciated.  He controls when and if we see each other and communicate.  Being shut out hurts.  People close to me just tell me he’s abusive and to divorce and move on.

He’s hard to love.  Any insight is greatly appreciated.  I’m tired of this and I’m lonely.  I have friends but it’s not the same.  Our relationship (married to uBPDh and separated two plus years, no divorce) has deteriorated over the years since he left.  He used to care about my feelings but his tendency to run home to his parents has always been his exit when he feels slighted.  He said it was the only way he could self soothe, getting away.  Is he telling the truth or am I just being conned and manipulated?

Also, he’s told me he can’t guarantee he’ll ever move home and that he’s 50/50 on whether to divorce or stay married and keep trying.  Well, he’s more of a 99/1 split on divorce/stay married from what I see in his behavior.  He’s not making an effort and me not ending the marriage just sends a signal that I’ll take his disrespect and take him back every time.

One other thing, once he got me hooked into the relationship the tables turned and he became the distanced and I started pursuing.  My P said he doesn’t think he’s borderline but I spoke with someone with a grown child with diagnosed BPD and she told me my H’s clinging behavior to his parents it’s dead on for his fear of abandonment.

If he won’t commit to healing our marriage then why doesn’t he just divorce me?  I never wanted divorce but he refused to let us heal.  We do great together but he always runs.  Is running away a BPD trait?  I know fear of abandonment is a listed trait but this running behavior isn’t mentioned in the official criteria so he confuses me..

And let’s face it, I think about how it could be with a different man who will actually show up for the relationship and take accountability.  It crosses my mind quite a bit.

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[pursuingJoy]

We had planned to get coffee together this past Saturday and he scheduled something else.  

He said we could meet Sunday and I told him the expectation that I have to change my schedule at his discretion felt very controlling and was not acceptable.  

Did I shame him by asking to be respected?  Is he just a spoiled rotten child?  Is it because he’s an abusive control freak with narcissistic traits?

2L2L, this is interesting to me. It's possible that, in true BPD fashion, was beginning to fear your rejection, so he set up some hurdles to see what you would do.

I respect the way you communicated your needs and set a boundary. I would have done the same thing. He, on the other hand, may feel like his fears confirmed, which is maybe why he's angry. It doesn't make what you said wrong in any way. In some ways, I think it simply indicates a level of incompatibility.

Could you have done anything differently? The answer may be no. Just asking in case it shakes something loose.

People close to me just tell me he’s abusive and to divorce and move on.

How does it make you feel when they advise divorce?

He used to care about my feelings but his tendency to run home to his parents has always been his exit when he feels slighted.  He said it was the only way he could self soothe, getting away.  Is he telling the truth or am I just being conned and manipulated?

I know you already know this, but most BPD's don't con or manipulate with evil intent or just for the heck of it. They're manipulating to meet their needs. With this in mind, if going home to his parents is his norm when he is dysregulating, and he has no plans to do anything differently in the future, where does that leave you? Is this something you can learn to live with or a deal-breaker?

 
He’s not making an effort and me not ending the marriage just sends a signal that I’ll take his disrespect and take him back every time.

livednlearned recently posted on another thread that BPD's lack confidence so they'll ride the wave of yours. When the non's confidence is shaken (usually understandable and normal) they are thrown even more off balance. Does that sound accurate for the two of you?

 
If he won’t commit to healing our marriage then why doesn’t he just divorce me?  I never wanted divorce but he refused to let us heal.  We do great together but he always runs.  Is running away a BPD trait?  I know fear of abandonment is a listed trait but this running behavior isn’t mentioned in the official criteria so he confuses me.

The ambivalence is possibly a result of a lack of confidence, and the running could be aligned with fear of engulfment. Whether he has BPD or not, there seem to be some very familiar traits that are still worth trying to understand.

 
And let’s face it, I think about how it could be with a different man who will actually show up for the relationship and take accountability.  It crosses my mind quite a bit.

This is completely understandable. I've been in your shoes before. 

So what's next, 2L2L? What do you want moving forward? 

pj

[once removed]

How can anyone be in a relationship with someone where you can’t ever ask to be respected without it triggering them?

Did I shame him by asking to be respected?  Is he just a spoiled rotten child?  Is it because he’s an abusive control freak with narcissistic traits?

realistic expectations are critical.

i keep mentioning that the two of you did not get to this place over night, and will not rebuild over night, because keeping your eye on the long game, and the big picture will help.

you may be expecting more in the short term than hes prepared or able to offer.

there have been some positive developments, but when they occur, it is not likely that they are going to rapidly snowball into a mountain of progress. and when you expect that, he pulls back. hes saying "too much, too soon". he likes the positive interactions, but when he senses expectations of commitment, he balks.  

progress, if its going to happen, should not be measured by one or two, or three or even four positive interactions. because there will be incidents where he pulls back or disappoints you; and thats more a reflection of the status of and damage to the relationship than a move to blatantly disrespect you.

you want to measure and see progress, but id look at whether things (tangible things) are on an overall upward trajectory, over months at a time.

[2Loyal2Long]

Guys, I need help.

I’m so confused.  First I think why wait any longer, just file for divorce.  Then I just can’t.  I talked to my Alanon sponsor last night and I’m feeling pushed to divorce.

To anyone who hasn’t dealt with someone with this kind of marriage I’m not sure they get it.

My head says it’s pointless to wait, my heart is so confused.

He agreed to speak briefly last night but he’d already taken his bipolar meds and was totally out of it.  His P referred him to a different P nearly two years ago and the new one increased his Seroquel from 200 to 600 mg and he’s heavily medicated.  His first P had been trying to get him down to 100 mg and now he’s at 600 mg with the new P who upped his Lamictal as well.  He’s no better off, he’s just overmedicated and behavior has not improved.  That’s why I believe this is BPD and not bipolar.

What does a person do when they’re so confused?  I like that Once Removed is talking about me slowing down and not pushing my H, he doesn’t respond well to that.  But this is the worst it’s been.  The brief phone call last night was the first in a three week silent treatment.  He sees his T this morning but after over a year of therapy his silent treatment has just gotten worse.  His T doesn’t know DBT, she’s using CBT, and let’s face it:  CBT can’t help anyone think their way out of a brown paper bag.

How do I handle being in limbo?  What the H do I do with a broken heart?  It’s getting harder to care about anything in my life because where once there’d been some hope there now appears to be none.

Help, please.

[2Loyal2Long]

And yes, PursuingJoy, he’s highly ambivalent.  Ask him what he wants to do about the marriage and he’ll say he doesn’t know, he’s not sure.  He says, “I don’t know” about everything, I mean everything, in his life.

Fear of engulfment?  Absolutely!  So he runs home to his parents, that’s been the norm his whole life.  Yet his T doesn’t see his parents’ over involvement in his life because, “I can only go on what he tells me.”  That’s what she told me in November during a joint session.  Seriously?  He lives in a trailer in his mother’s backyard!

Okay, I’m taking a breather.  Feedback and insight appreciated.  Thank God for this site, I need you all!

[Rev]

And yes, PursuingJoy, he’s highly ambivalent.  Ask him what he wants to do about the marriage and he’ll say he doesn’t know, he’s not sure.  He says, “I don’t know” about everything, I mean everything, in his life.

Fear of engulfment?  Absolutely!  So he runs home to his parents, that’s been the norm his whole life.  Yet his T doesn’t see his parents’ over involvement in his life because, “I can only go on what he tells me.”  That’s what she told me in November during a joint session.  Seriously?  He lives in a trailer in his mother’s backyard!

Okay, I’m taking a breather.  Feedback and insight appreciated.  Thank God for this site, I need you all!

Hey there my friend... yes …. breathe... breathe …. breathe... until your brain gets a regular stream of oxygen (I mean this seriously). Do whatever you need to do to get your emotions into perspective. I don't mean to say ignore them, get them into perspective. What are they really telling you? 

You have some great advice here already, so I am just going to say - boy do I hear how confusing relationships like this are. No - other people will not get it. There's too much craziness in a relationship with pwBPD for the average person to conceive. You have to have been there.

Breathe …..  breathe ….. breathe...…  you will tap into wisdom in your own heart for what is true.  And you will tap into a conviction that is more sturdy than your ever imagined.

Rev

[pursuingJoy]

Breathe …..  breathe ….. breathe...…  you will tap into wisdom in your own heart for what is true.  And you will tap into a conviction that is more sturdy than your ever imagined.

Beautifully stated Rev. 2L2L, we are here and we're listening. Your heart's being stretched and I know it hurts like hell. Find your center. Listen to the sounds around you, what you see, feel what you feel. This is the hardest part.

[2Loyal2Long]

You all are so great.  God . . . no one, I mean no one, understands like this group.

I just wish God would drop me an answer.  Some think He has and I’m just not listening . . . but they’ve never had their brain in this type of blender.

Wish we had a love button here.  Thank you all for being there.  This is a lonely, special kind of hell.

[UBPDHelp]

Gee, 2Loyal,2Long,

I hear you!  I’m sorting out a very similar confusing situation with my uBPDH...just wanted to send  your way!

[2Loyal2Long]

Same to you as well, I’ll look up your threads to get caught up when I have time.

Thank you for your kind thoughts.  Sending them back to you and hoping the best in your situation.