Did you need to learn to live again?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi there,

long time no post. I'm in a RS with a woman with BPD, and she has 2 kids that I've been raising as my own for 5 years. But for the last 3 years or so, the story is 99% of the time " She's with me until she can get on her feet and leave". She can go some days without saying that, but she never says "I'm gonna try to make this work, I want to be with you" or anything of the sort. And other days it gets worse, silent treatment, she says we are toxic to each other, bad for each other, or even that I'm an XXXX and that she wants to forget I ever existed.

She has no job and 2 kids, and no place to go. So that has a lot of weight in me not saying "this is over, go". And when she's not being nasty, I look at her and I have a lot of compassion and love for her. But even as she stays, she's not my girlfriend in any aspect: It's gonna be a year without sex, and it could be weeks or months without any show of affection from her. Or even without allowing any from me, a kiss on the cheek, a hug... She never listens to me or show interest in me, to the point that I almost don't speak at all, which she resents a lot. When I tell her something, it either triggers her anger, or triggers a much bigger story from her own life.

My life has transformed into having one single goal: To avoid bothering her. (And completely lost because "I angry her" all the time, anyway).

So, I often try to picture how my life will be after they're gone. Workdays now start with me trying to not wake up anybody, and wondering if someone is gonna say good morning back when they get up and I'm leaving for work. Or what kind of hurtful remark she's gonna say to me, even when she was kind the night before. But work days will be clear. I'll just go to work.

On weekends, I wake up with fear, because usually, violence will errupt sooner or later among the brothers, before I have a chance to have breakfast. My "GF" sleeps in the living room, and the kids wake up and go there and turn on the TV and start asking her for things when she's still asleep. Way earlier than the time they wake up for school on weekdays. If just one kid is up, it's ok, she can sleep a bit more between rude callings/demands. If the 2 are up, they fight, and they rat each other out yelling. Some days I get up and just one kid is up with the tv (hypnotized) and I can go and wake her up kindly, softly massaging her head. She makes some cat noises of approval, and that's the highlight of our intimacy. After a good while that she enjoyes this, she can still wake up angry at me 5 minutes later. But most days I just wake up because I hear screams, of a fight, or she telling them off for waking her up or for something they have done already. I take coffee with her, because it's the only meal the she has with me during the week. When she's going to want to have coffee it's still a mistery to me after 5 years, it could be 9.30, it could be 12.30. If I ask, "I ruined it". If I make it, she woon't have it. But most times she would say, irritated "are you going to bother to tell me how you want your coffee or what?".

But anyway, the weekends go fighting over homework with the kids and helping them, if there's a plan, getting them ready, mostly watching them to separate fights, fixing things they knock down or break... And watching what I say, and not having a clue what's expected of me. If I do house chores, angry face, if I ask what do I do,  anoyed answers, or no answer. If I watch tv, or play a game to kill time until I have something to do, I'm ignoring them and she gets angry. She does most house chores, and everytime I ask her if I can do something, she says no. I used to study, but I'm on a break because it was too much, and when I used the time to study, I got the "you are ignoring us and doing your life".  So I mostly only fit when I'm helping one of the kids with homework, of fixing something, the rest of the time, I'm on the way and I'm irritating her. Also, no complaints if she wants to talk for hours and I listen.

I guess in some degree, all parents lose part of their life and just focus on the kids a good chunk of time. That's OK, and that leaves a vacum when they don't need you anymore, I guess. But basically I have no life at all, and I don't know what I will do when I have all the time, and freedom.

I have forgoteen what's a normal thing to do when you wake up on a saturday morning. I remember I used to watch a lot of movies, and Tv-shows with my previous partner. Now there's never a good time to watch a movie, and only the kids watch those things. But I don't remember when I did that before.

Simple things like taking a shower, when did I do that? Now I take a shower when everyone is in bed and there's not much hot water left because the 3 of them showered before. Because if I ocupy the bathroom in daytime, I get complaints.

My mother had surgery and I went to help her for a few days, and it was weird to not have conflicts for those days. To not be critiziced every step of the way. Even when there wasn't agreement among my  siblings and my father, things didn't go nasty. And I remembered that was to be my life, I didn't have to "brace for impact" all the time. I'm pretty easy going, I used to get along with everyone. Very rarely someone had been angry with me in my life. Even through my divorce, my ex-wife was kind and helping to me, because she knew I didn't want to hurt her at all.

I don't want anything. I've spent too much time focusing in what I don't want, and that's all this conflict and violence. (The kids won't agree on anything between them, and not with us, a fight and a long argument is needed for every simple task, and she would agree with me one minute just to turn 180º and tell me the opposite later. )


Have you been there? How was the time learning to live again? Do things come back to your head in a natural way? Do you feel lost all the time?




P.S.- A thing that makes me sad but it doesn't worry me much is that I feel I won't have another partner in my life. I feel I can't live with someone that has any expectations, and that won't be fair to any woman. It makes me sad because I don't have a high opinion of myself, but I was a good husband, and I'm not good at many things but I was good at giving love, and listening, and caring... And I have nothing to show for it.

[JoeBPD81]

Hi there,

long time no post. I'm in a RS with a woman with BPD, and she has 2 kids that I've been raising as my own for 5 years. But for the last 3 years or so, the story is 99% of the time " She's with me until she can get on her feet and leave". She can go some days without saying that, but she never says "I'm gonna try to make this work, I want to be with you" or anything of the sort. And other days it gets worse, silent treatment, she says we are toxic to each other, bad for each other, or even that I'm an XXXX and that she wants to forget I ever existed.

She has no job and 2 kids, and no place to go. So that has a lot of weight in me not saying "this is over, go". And when she's not being nasty, I look at her and I have a lot of compassion and love for her. But even as she stays, she's not my girlfriend in any aspect: It's gonna be a year without sex, and it could be weeks or months without any show of affection from her. Or even without allowing any from me, a kiss on the cheek, a hug... She never listens to me or show interest in me, to the point that I almost don't speak at all, which she resents a lot. When I tell her something, it either triggers her anger, or triggers a much bigger story from her own life.

My life has transformed into having one single goal: To avoid bothering her. (And completely lost because "I angry her" all the time, anyway).

So, I often try to picture how my life will be after they're gone. Workdays now start with me trying to not wake up anybody, and wondering if someone is gonna say good morning back when they get up and I'm leaving for work. Or what kind of hurtful remark she's gonna say to me, even when she was kind the night before. But work days will be clear. I'll just go to work.

On weekends, I wake up with fear, because usually, violence will errupt sooner or later among the brothers, before I have a chance to have breakfast. My "GF" sleeps in the living room, and the kids wake up and go there and turn on the TV and start asking her for things when she's still asleep. Way earlier than the time they wake up for school on weekdays. If just one kid is up, it's ok, she can sleep a bit more between rude callings/demands. If the 2 are up, they fight, and they rat each other out yelling. Some days I get up and just one kid is up with the tv (hypnotized) and I can go and wake her up kindly, softly massaging her head. She makes some cat noises of approval, and that's the highlight of our intimacy. After a good while that she enjoyes this, she can still wake up angry at me 5 minutes later. But most days I just wake up because I hear screams, of a fight, or she telling them off for waking her up or for something they have done already. I take coffee with her, because it's the only meal the she has with me during the week. When she's going to want to have coffee it's still a mistery to me after 5 years, it could be 9.30, it could be 12.30. If I ask, "I ruined it". If I make it, she woon't have it. But most times she would say, irritated "are you going to bother to tell me how you want your coffee or what?".

But anyway, the weekends go fighting over homework with the kids and helping them, if there's a plan, getting them ready, mostly watching them to separate fights, fixing things they knock down or break... And watching what I say, and not having a clue what's expected of me. If I do house chores, angry face, if I ask what do I do,  anoyed answers, or no answer. If I watch tv, or play a game to kill time until I have something to do, I'm ignoring them and she gets angry. She does most house chores, and everytime I ask her if I can do something, she says no. I used to study, but I'm on a break because it was too much, and when I used the time to study, I got the "you are ignoring us and doing your life".  So I mostly only fit when I'm helping one of the kids with homework, of fixing something, the rest of the time, I'm on the way and I'm irritating her. Also, no complaints if she wants to talk for hours and I listen.

I guess in some degree, all parents lose part of their life and just focus on the kids a good chunk of time. That's OK, and that leaves a vacum when they don't need you anymore, I guess. But basically I have no life at all, and I don't know what I will do when I have all the time, and freedom.

I have forgoteen what's a normal thing to do when you wake up on a saturday morning. I remember I used to watch a lot of movies, and Tv-shows with my previous partner. Now there's never a good time to watch a movie, and only the kids watch those things. But I don't remember when I did that before.

Simple things like taking a shower, when did I do that? Now I take a shower when everyone is in bed and there's not much hot water left because the 3 of them showered before. Because if I ocupy the bathroom in daytime, I get complaints.

My mother had surgery and I went to help her for a few days, and it was weird to not have conflicts for those days. To not be critiziced every step of the way. Even when there wasn't agreement among my  siblings and my father, things didn't go nasty. And I remembered that was to be my life, I didn't have to "brace for impact" all the time. I'm pretty easy going, I used to get along with everyone. Very rarely someone had been angry with me in my life. Even through my divorce, my ex-wife was kind and helping to me, because she knew I didn't want to hurt her at all.

I don't want anything. I've spent too much time focusing in what I don't want, and that's all this conflict and violence. (The kids won't agree on anything between them, and not with us, a fight and a long argument is needed for every simple task, and she would agree with me one minute just to turn 180º and tell me the opposite later. )


Have you been there? How was the time learning to live again? Do things come back to your head in a natural way? Do you feel lost all the time?




P.S.- A thing that makes me sad but it doesn't worry me much is that I feel I won't have another partner in my life. I feel I can't live with someone that has any expectations, and that won't be fair to any woman. It makes me sad because I don't have a high opinion of myself, but I was a good husband, and I'm not good at many things but I was good at giving love, and listening, and caring... And I have nothing to show for it.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Joe, It's OK if you have to start over.  Many of us have done it.  I'm sorry to hear about your situation.  It comes down to figuring out what is right for you, I think.  Suggest you return the focus to yourself.

LuckyJim

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks, the title should be:

Did you need to learn to live again?

I've noticed plenty of  typos and sentences that made no sense, I was writing 2 words here and there at work. Sorry.

I was hoping someone had been in a similar situation and can share how it was for him/her. Thanks.

[Butane]

I have not had your exact experience, but I am getting to the other side of my own difficulties.

Your current life sounds very painful and disorienting.

What would be your ideal situation? Living on your own in a peaceful home? If your GF and her children were living elsewhere, would you miss them? Do you feel responsible for the children? Do they look upon you as their Dad ?

[Longterm]

Hi Joe.

  Have you been there? How was the time learning to live again? Do things come back to your head in a natural way? Do you feel lost all the time?

I can relate to a lot of what you said. I was in a relationship/marriage for 20yrs and I remember what it was like to live on a daily basis. I could not sleep until she was either out the house or asleep, I woke up every day soaking wet and hung on her every whim trying to avoid confrontation at any cost. It makes me feel sad to look back at what I endured.

I think there was a sort of transition period as I began to learn to live away from her. At first I could not sit still, my mind was consumed by thoughts of her 24/7. I would often not sleep in between shifts and I dropped down to 69kg. I had gotten so used to her being the centre of my world that I  found it very weird not attending to her every whim. I implemented NC immediately as I can honestly say the thought of contact petrified me (still does).

There was a real feeling of "what do I do with myself?". I found it helpful to get busy with my hobbies. What hobbies do you have? What did joe do before he met her? How did he spend his time and weekends? It may be an idea to think about these things and also prepare yourself a self care plan. A therapist too is a must I feel to help you untangle the trauma bond and process your feelings.

I think I felt lost for a good while and still do at times. My concentration and level of relaxation is greatly improved now and I can honestly say that I feel as though my happiness has improved. There will be down periods but it all does get better.

LT.

[Rev]

My mother had surgery and I went to help her for a few days, and it was weird to not have conflicts for those days. To not be critiziced every step of the way. Even when there wasn't agreement among my  siblings and my father, things didn't go nasty. And I remembered that was to be my life, I didn't have to "brace for impact" all the time. I'm pretty easy going, I used to get along with everyone. Very rarely someone had been angry with me in my life. Even through my divorce, my ex-wife was kind and helping to me, because she knew I didn't want to hurt her at all.

I don't want anything. I've spent too much time focusing in what I don't want, and that's all this conflict and violence. (The kids won't agree on anything between them, and not with us, a fight and a long argument is needed for every simple task, and she would agree with me one minute just to turn 180º and tell me the opposite later. )


Have you been there? How was the time learning to live again? Do things come back to your head in a natural way? Do you feel lost all the time?




P.S.- A thing that makes me sad but it doesn't worry me much is that I feel I won't have another partner in my life. I feel I can't live with someone that has any expectations, and that won't be fair to any woman. It makes me sad because I don't have a high opinion of myself, but I was a good husband, and I'm not good at many things but I was good at giving love, and listening, and caring... And I have nothing to show for it.

Hey my friend...

That sounds tough and yes, it sounds familiar.  And yes I am learning how to re-live my life in the wake of my failed marriage to my uBPD ex.  So much of what you write describes where my relationship was headed at the end of the fifth year of my relationship to her. It can be really, really tough to get out from the PTSD type triggers.  

I remember when my parents died within six months of each other - and then I was going to their home about 2 hours from where I live now to settle things in the estate. It was peaceful. You would think that I would hate going there, but it was peace and quiet.

I too thought that there was no future for me and I found myself making the same kinds of compromises that you say you are making here.  

Only you can really decide as others have said.  Some find a way to cope others seek the freedom. Are you in therapy?  Have you considered looking into Spiritual Direction or mindfulness training. The idea is to get in touch with your sense of self apart from your reality.

Good luck and Godspeed.  Sounds like you are getting close to an answer of some kind.

Rev

Rev

[JoeBPD81]

Hey guys,

thanks a lot for all the anwsers! they really made my day.

I've been asking myself the same questions you told me. The scary thought is that I don't remember who I was as a single person. After my divorce, that had been my only RS in my life, I found that I blocked some memories. All the memories, good and bad were painful, so there was some magnetic repulsion that kept me from going there. For example, my sisters would tell me about an event in the past, and I would not recall a thing about it. I was a "kid", 19, when I started that RS, and I didn't have enough time to heal before I fell in love with this BPDwoman. Now I'm 42.

My "1st wife" was very active, ambitious, she had tons of plans, so there was always something to do. They weren't my plans, but I was busy. There was also a big constellation of people that we saw.  In this 2nd RS it's the opposite, there are no plans, unless  the kids have a friend's birthday. We have no plans, and I pay a great price if I make plans of my own, even though she always encourages me to go hang out with my friends and be happy (It's a trap!).

Recently I thought, "if they go, I'll buy a PS4" because I was curious about some games I might enjoy. So then I thought "Why would I postpone something that I can do for myself?" And I went and bought it in a bargain. I played once, and I have it hidden. But I connected the PS3 that was collecting dust for years, and I took some games I bought years ago and never played. And I enjoyed that (right after my divorced I tried and I didn't like it at all, I was very unmotivated). I kind of feel playing videogames is a waste of time and brain numbling, but maybe that's what I need from time to time. I play at night, so I don't give a bad example to the kids. Cause they get addicted and then can't think about anything else. GF hates videogames and technology in general, it gives her paranoia. And it's a shame because it could be something the kids and I bonded about. And a source for praise and admiration in the eyes of the kids. (As I'm hungry for any positive feedback). But it's also a source for sadness, as they often mention they want to live with me, and the (often only) reason they give is because I have videogames.

As long as hobbies go, this one doesn't make me value myself much. But I know it's a thing that interests me for 2 months, and then it doesn't for 4 months. I think I'll exercise more, I have a free roller-skate ring close to my place, and I can go there and skate for hours while I listen to audiobooks, or music. That's a good thing I enjoy. I also used to play the guitar, and I would try again.

My job doesn't motivate me at all. But it has given me peace and stability. So I keep it and it's just 8 to 4. So I have all the evenings and weekends free. If there was a chance to go abroad for some months, I'd take it (that is, when I'm single). And I used to work as a massage therapist, and that gave me a lot of positive feedback, lately I only treat some old faithful customers. But I would take more if I was alone, because it makes me feel like I'm really good at something. Also, I was having success at getting some College degree in English now, at my age, and I would finish it. And I would put more effort in another Government exam to get a promotion at my job, and maybe a change of scenery.

I have a lot of friends and family that I'm neglecting now, and I would try to catch up and make ammends. Although I'm not a very social person.

But as you can see, there are some paths I can take to start something. I will have to force myself to do that, even if I feel like sleeping all day. And I will seek therapy too. I'm in a better mood today because she was OK yesterday, and this morning.

So... them... I feel ashamed to say that I think I won't miss the kids because they end my patience (and I used to have tons). But when they've been on vacation without me, or when they didn't live with me and we had broken up, I did miss them. Given my life, I shouldn't miss her either, but I love the woman, and the days she's not talking to me I feel like I can't breathe. And I do feel responsible, I can't just look the other way and not worry about how they're doing.

The kids do look upon me as their dad. S8 only knows me as a dad. S13 has some other memories, but I've spent way more time with them than what their father has in all their lives. But the way they relate to people is so alien to me, that I don't know. They are very self centered and they seem to see other people as secondary charactres in their show. They talk about other people in terms of what they can get from each one. So it seems that if I were to give them all the videogames and gadgets, they wouldn't miss me much. But I know it's not the whole story.

Would she miss me? I don't know. She regrets a lot not having come to terms with people who died or with her ex. She feels guilty about many things. As many people here, I'm not sure if she loves me, or if she has loved me for the last years...Definitelly, it's not the same thing I call love, when I love someone. I know she would feel guilty about how she has treated me, she would miss some good moments, and she won't contact me because she's always stated that I would be better off without her. Also, she always says "I would never chase a man/guy". I will miss her, I like her a lot when she's not angry, when she's not hating me. And we get along great when she's "regulated", but she's so many different people in the course of a week. And I don't get to see much the kind one.

I'm open to see the kids and have them visit me as much as they want. For their good. They don't have a handful of people who care for them or that want to spend time with them. So I don't know if NC is possible. But I don't think they would stay in my city when they leave me, and that would make things a bit easier. I doubt she would get another partner, then I would detach completelly and with no guilt.

She's telling me today that how insecure the kids feel is her fault and her sesponsibility. And that she doesn't know to take a step that won't hurt them further. That S8 has told her that if they live somewhere else he can replace everything in his life, buy Joe. (It breaks my heart) And that it is her fault that the kids need me, but she can't be a good partner to me. That she made a very bad decision thinking we could be a couple, and thinking she could be good for me. She said "The only thing I've learned these years is that I will never again have any kind of RS, no new friends, much less anything more, because I can't... I thought I could, but some wounds never heal, or at least I don't know how...".

I'm not going to argue, but if you don't know how to heal (but you want to), you don't discuss what the doctors order. You don't leave therapy, you take your meds...

It's going to be really hard to not know if they are OK, I would feel the need to check up on them every day. Weeks and months go by without any news from my ex-wife, but I'm glad I know she's OK. I guess having my experience about a divorce will help, at least I know that as dark as things look, there won't look like that forever.

Thank you for saying that it gets better.

Finding " Your sense of self apart from your reality" sounds like a tough mission. As of the Spiritual Direction, I used to be very involved in my Catholic community, but it faded even in my marriage years. Some months ago I took on praying every night for some insight, because I can't make sense of my lilfe. It feels fake to go back to church just because I can't think about anything else to do. I don't feel like a man of faith, and I'm not comfortable with the church now.
Helping this family has been "a good deed" and a sacrifice that brought me no reward. But I didn't help them really, they are no better than when I found them. I'm of no use to anyone else. So I pretty much feel like a failure. Like if I go some place now, it would be to ask for something, not to give. And I always valued my existence thinking about what I was giving, and how useful I was.

Maybe when it's not so painful I can come back here and talk to people and help them myself. I was an Ambassador for a while, but I couldn't in good concience help people save their RS when nothing I did in mine worked.

I hate the stigma sorrounding this Disorder (and mental health in general), and I hate to hear and read so much negative things about it. It kills me to hear something about the woman I love and value that has the words "toxic", "abuse", "manipulative"...Knowing she's more than that, but at the same time knowing that no matter the cause, she IS abusive towards me.

I can't wrap my mind about the existence of a collective of people that have an illness that gives them almost no hope. They are going to live in pain, and they are going to hurt others for the rest of their life. It's so unfair, so cruel.

I would love to give people some hope, but it's so frustrating, because I don't see it.

[Lucky Jim]

knowing that no matter the cause, she IS abusive towards me.

Hey Joe, That's the heart of the matter: the person you love is abusive towards you.  It took me a long time to grasp, because my self-esteem was so low at that point.  I reached a point where I couldn't go on. 

Now you are back on your path, which leads to greater happiness.

LuckyJim

[Longterm]

  The scary thought is that I don't remember who I was as a single person. After my divorce, that had been my only RS in my life, I found that I blocked some memories. All the memories, good and bad were painful, so there was some magnetic repulsion that kept me from going there. For example, my sisters would tell me about an event in the past, and I would not recall a thing about it. I was a "kid", 19, when I started that RS, and I didn't have enough time to heal before I fell in love with this BPDwoman. Now I'm 42. 

It sounds like you had not come to terms with the ending of your marriage before you jumped into the next one. You would have been a magnet for a pwBPD, something I know all too well. It is difficult when we have been hurt to face the pain, something though, that ultimately must be done. Therapy can help with this.

I think I'll exercise more, I have a free roller-skate ring close to my place, and I can go there and skate for hours while I listen to audiobooks, or music. That's a good thing I enjoy. I also used to play the guitar, and I would try again. 

This sounds great! I'm a big fan of the outdoors. It's good that your are thinking ahead.

  And I used to work as a massage therapist, and that gave me a lot of positive feedback, lately I only treat some old faithful customers. But I would take more if I was alone, because it makes me feel like I'm really good at something. Also, I was having success at getting some College degree in English now, at my age, and I would finish it. And I would put more effort in another Government exam to get a promotion at my job, and maybe a change of scenery. 

Looking for ways to boost your self esteem is good, the confidence gained will help you along the way. I like how your attitude is more "I can..." instead of "I cant...". The freedom gained here will help to, it may be a bit weird at first wondering what to do with yourself but it seems there is plenty you could do and achieve moving forward.

 
I have a lot of friends and family that I'm neglecting now, and I would try to catch up and make ammends. Although I'm not a very social person

We easily become isolated from them unfortunately. I think reconnecting is a great idea as moving forward will be easier with supportive people around you.

  But as you can see, there are some paths I can take to start something. I will have to force myself to do that, even if I feel like sleeping all day. And I will seek therapy too. I'm in a better mood today because she was OK yesterday, and this morning. 

If you have to force yourself, so be it. I spent most my time in bed early on and a little thing helped me, I would write three things to do each day and force myself to do them. It meant I spent less time in bed and more time doing productive things, it boosted my self esteem a little.
It's good to hear that therapy is on the agenda, it is priceless imo.

  So... them... I feel ashamed to say that I think I won't miss the kids because they end my patience (and I used to have tons). But when they've been on vacation without me, or when they didn't live with me and we had broken up, I did miss them.

Its difficult isn't it. I really feel for the kids here. I feel though that this relationship is not good for anybody involved, especially you joe, you will miss them, you will have ups and downs, it's important for you to look after you right now. You may continue to play a part in their lives, if you choose to then hate off to you, it is however important that you do this from a place of stability, that starts with you getting the help you need.

They are very self centered and they seem to see other people as secondary charactres in their show. They talk about other people in terms of what they can get from each one 

It's to be expected. Children in general are very selfish, I see it in my own kids. The way you describe the kids is how you describe your gf, if that is their role model they perceive it as being normal.

 
Would she miss me? 

A good topic to discuss with your therapist I feel, this is a question that swirled around in my head for a good while. In the end I came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter, what I wanted and needed was more important.

  I'm open to see the kids and have them visit me as much as they want. For their good.

I like this, very commendable  breakups effect everybody involved, especially kids. They end up confused and blaming themselves (in my case). Its good you will let them visit.

LT.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Joe-

I am so very sorry that you’re having such a difficult time.  I don’t know your whole story, just what I’ve read in this thread.   Maybe I’m way off, but I am sensing that you are feeling that something needs to change. 

Something, even a little, that will make you feel more hopeful day to day so that you can feel “movement” in your life one way or another.

To me it seems like you feel trapped.  I understand that you love your GF, yet without reciprocal love of any type, do you feel trapped?

You’ve posted on the “Detaching” board, but I get it... how can you detach when you’re living together and nothing is changing?  When There is no movement at all?  How can you detach?

What does your GF mean when she says she’ll “leave when she can get on her feet”?  If she’s not working, how does she intend to get on her feet?  What are her plans?  Is she going to school to prepare for employment?  Does she have money coming in from somewhere that she contributes to the household?  Is she physically disabled?  Does she have family somewhere that can provide a “safety net”?

Is this status quo good for you? 

I understand if she leaves you’ll be terribly sad.  For a while. But my friend, will you be sadder than you are now?  If you are free to pursue things in life that CAN bring you joy, happiness and fulfillment, isn’t there a good chance you may actually be happier, MORE fulfilled than you are now?

I don’t intend to bring you down, Joe.  You have a right to live your life, to experience joy, whether she’s there or not.  Just a little food for thought...

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks a lot for your answers, I can't talk to anybody about this yet, and my situation is very uncertain, with St. Valentine this friday, and the kids that need to finish the school year so, if a miracle doesn't happen, until the summer they will be living at my house. But we have reached a point where we can't fake that we are a couple anymore. I hope we can have some kind of peace.

Yesterday she wrote me long texts, all about her inability to behave and to be in a couple, and how it was a mistake to believe she could have one, and have kids, and how she needs to take responsibility for her future and the kids'. And how sorry she was I've been paying for her mistakes. She was apologetic at times and offensive other times. There was a point when I said "this conversation is not helping you feel better at all, and it's breaking my heart, so I'm not gonna answer more."
She told me, to close up, that she doesn't only love me when she's OK, that she loves me  always, but she can't show it or do anything with that love.

Longterm  Thanks a lot for your detailed answer.

I don't feel like doing anything of my "to do" list, I just think it might help if I stick to it. But my only motivation is that I won't feel lke this forever, I won't feel like my life is pointless.

In the past, I tried to talk her into believing in us, and I begged her to stay, without any promises on her part. It's been months I don't do that. She tells me things that are completelly wrong, and I don't argue. What's the point? I tried that for years, and it never worked. She can't change her mind, it seems she prefers to be right rather than being happy. If we were to be together again, she needs to put something on the table. She has to agree to something, to commit to something.

She's still there, and I love her a lot. I don't know how I could be able to stop caring about her as my main concern, ever. I know it's a really bad sign, but I don't know how to care about myself more that I care for her. I don't remember a time when I thought I was more important than the people I loved, this isn't just this RS.

Forgive me if my English is foggy sometimes, it's not my 1st language, and I'm trying to express complex feelings.

I'm curious about what you meant by

"You would have been a magnet for a pwBPD, something I know all too well."

I went to therapy then, I was friends with the pwBPD but we knew we liked each other. Something we discussed was the convenience of starting another RS, and of course, the 1st advice was not to. But she and the kids were in a very hard situation and in need. Many times we said that it would be better to not start a RS, and we tried to stay appart. For me it was a question of taking some distance for a while. But for her was to change her phone number and forget about me. Black or White thinking. Then it was mostly all good, I never felt so loved, so it felt like a tragedy to lose that chance. So I felt I had to chose between all or nothing, and I chose all. Today I know better. Eventually, the therapist saw that if that RS brought me some good, it was Ok to try. This was all before her anorexia went to dangerous extremes, and the diagnosis of BPD came.

"reconnecting is a great idea as moving forward will be easier with supportive people around you".

I know, and that's something hard for me to do. I tend to seek alone-time. I remember very young,  living with my family and opening the door to find no one was home and feel relieved, and they are good people. My 1st wife was very social, so she pushed me to be with people. And I enjoyed some times, but it's awkward for me to call people and set dates and such. I asolated myself, but to me it speaks volumes that no one is calling me to insist we meet. My best friends live hundreds of miles away.

" I feel though that this relationship is not good for anybody involved"

Yeah, I hoped it would be good for her, because no one had been kind to her before. And the kids, this is the most stable life they have had, and in their school they noticed an improvement when they started living with me. For a long time we managed to keep them in the dark about how disfunctional our RS was. But now they see it clear as day. And they've been told a couple of times that it was over.

" Children in general are very selfish"

I wish it was just that. I thing something pathological is there too. They are diagnosed with ADHD, both, and S13 with a behavioral dissorder. Their father was a narcisistic alcoholic, with a history of schizofrenia in his family. He had previous kids that he lost custody of. One of these kids lived with them for a while and showed some disturbing behavior as a late teen, as in total lack of empathy and enjoying hurting others. Some of that is also present in these kids. I have 7 nieces and nephews and I've worked with lots of kids, and this is something else.

Of course, the environment has done nothing to help them. They were kicked out of their father's house, and unwanted at their grandmother's for 2-3 years, sleeping at the floor. Until they moved in with me. They don't have supporting uncles, or grandparents... They have 2 aunts, one keeps standing them up 90% of the time she says she's gonna do something with them, and another has come one day in 5 years. Everyone in their life spends most of the time lecturing them, because their behavior is ...problematic. S13 behaves when there's unknown people around, S8 can't stop himself, he's a little tornado. But with family, they don't care about behaving at all, manners go out of the window. My extended family has welcomed them, but my GF is so uncomfortable around people, that we haven't seen them that much.

With me, I know it wasn't all in my hands, but nonetheless I feel I failed them. I haven't raised them as I would like, they've had a lot of "rewarding bad behavior" as compensation for their bad luck. And the've had too many privileges when we are not rich. GF can't affort to go to the dentist herself, but they've had much more than what I had as a kid. If it had been up to me, I would have been more strict, specially sticking to the things we say, and not changing all the time.

Anyway, the least I can do is be there for them. They have no part on this, they are not to blame. And with kids involved I knew I had to be ready to be their dad or walk away. Well, not ready, but willing.

If they had a lot of people in their lives, maybe it would be better to fade away. I've been only a "failed boyfriend of their mom". If you count the couple's time that we've had in these 5 years, I'm not even a long term RS. But for them, I was their dad, and they wanted me to be their dad forever. I don't think they really believe they will go, of course they don't want to think about it and they want to pretend it won't happen.

Gemsforeyes
Thank you for taking the time to write me.

More than trapped, I feel beaten. I lost at the game of life. I failed. That's how I feel. I don't know what else to do to avoid the end of this family. And I don't know what's the point in keeping like this when no one is happy.

GF wants to have a job and fend for herself and the kids. They have some child support, but it just covers the school and some food. Her family has money, but they've been turning their back on her all  her life. She came to my city because her mother and sisters live here. Expecting some support from them. And it has been awful. Her mother let them sleep in the floor of her house for almost 3 years, and she promised to pay some of the kids expenses if she moved out to live with me, and that never came. Also, she bought a big dog the next day, when GF is very alergic and the kids mildly so. So they can't even visit her much. Message received, you know?
I paid for some studies she thought she wanted to invest in, but she couldn't follow through. She can't concentrate, she's so depressed. And also the kids don't give her any time, they demand so much atention and assistance. S13 still can't find his own clothes in his small room. And gets very angry and violent when he doesn't. And blames her mom about that. And she has to come and show him "here they are, your pants, same place as always".

So, if she doesn't find a job, her only choice is to beg for help to her abusive ex-alcoholic ex-husband, who never showed any interest in the kids, he doesn't even speak their language (the language of the country we all live in, including him for the last 20 years). Move to that little town, and find a job there while he takes care of the kids. She has contacts there, and she believes she could find a job there. But she will live in fear, because her ex is dangerous and unpredictable.

If she had a better way out, she would have taken it years ago. We wouldn't have moved in together until she had some grasp on her own life. But it was awful for her and the kids, and I was alone, and I could rent a flat for all of us, with a room for each kid.

I don't know how I'll feel when they go. I see the situation grows worse and worse. She barely has good days towards me, the kids are more and more anxious, and she has 0 believe in a future with me. And 0 interest in being my "woman". If she could respect me and be my friend, and be polite, and value what I do for them... Maybe we could settle in a "less than optimal situation" for the kids. Being two friends that raised the kids. Not what I want in life. But I get less than that, I get no respect, no gratitude, no freedom, no friendship... just complaints. And she is miserable too. The kids have everything, and they know we both love them, and we spent all of our time with them. But still, not an hour goes by without conflict, and it's taken to its limit, when someone leaves slaming a door, several of us are crying, there are yells and foul language, or S13 really hurts S8 phisically. And that's everyday, that's the family life they know as normal. And it's a horror movie for me.

So, yeah, no one is happy. But about fulfilment, at least now I feel I do something. I put a roof over their heads, I take them to the doctor when they are sick... You know? If it ends, I'm not looking forward to what happens next for me, and I see nothing better for them without my support (not because it's mine, but because it's some support). I think I'm the only one who wins something if we break up, even though is not what I wanted. So it feels dirty to put myself in front of the kids' needs, or that the person I love can have even a place to sleep.

If I was a selfish heartless person, of course breaking up it's objectivelly better for me. But I can't see it that way without regretting it immediatelly. At this moment, the reason I care to be alive for is to help them.

So I guess I'm a F-ing mess.

[Lucky Jim]

More than trapped, I feel beaten. I lost at the game of life. I failed. That's how I feel. I don't know what else to do to avoid the end of this family. And I don't know what's the point in keeping like this when no one is happy.

Hey Joe, No, you didn't fail.  I'm a bright guy and had the hubris to think that I could crack the BPD Code, yet BPD proved too much for me.  It's an incredibly complex disorder and finally I had to throw in the towel.  Like you, I judged myself harshly, yet now I have come to the conclusion that most BPD relationships are not built for the long haul.  Just the way it is with BPD, so give yourself a break and start treating yourself with kindness and compassion.

LJ

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks Lucky Jim ,

It's not my conclussion, a judgement that I think rationally. it's how I feel, luckily I still can tell the difference between feelings and reality, which I think it's a big problem for my pwBPD and the kids.

I know I did my best in this RS, that I gave more than anyone can ask of anyone. The things I did wrong, I couldn't do them right. I mean, I should have enforced boundaries and demand respect from the beginning, and that's just not me. I get it with the kids, but I can't do it with another adult. And if I have to be a different person just to try something that might work or not, I don't think it's worth it.

How I feel depends on myself. The point I am in life. Maybe it's the 40's crysis. I don't have kids, I haven't written a book... You know, what's my "legacy"? And why would anyone want that I leave any kind of legacy? I don't have any proyect left, any ambition. I have a job that I mostly hate, although I help some people short term, but anyone can do that job, I could be replaced in a blink.

I'm not in te business of starting a race to have a kid of my own now, when I know I shouldn't jump into another RS anytime soon. If that's what I wanted most in life, I don't think it would be very responsible to go for it and be 53, 54 with a 10 year old running around. But the fact is that I don't want it anymore. This experience left me with no hope of joy of having kids. It was one of the reasons to break up my marriage, she didn't want kids, and I did. But now that desire is gone.

When I left what had been my home for 15 years, I felt like that too. Pointless. I thought "I wish a bus will run me over and end this". But I kept goinf forward and that feeling went away. I thought I had nothing to give, and then I've given a lot to this family after that. So I know that not seeing a future is not the same as not having a future.

I don't have a life proyect now, but it might come after I reach some mid-term goals, after I take care of myself, and heal my wounds.

On a funny note,  a guy I assisted yesterday at work told me "I haven't had sex since 1998" (using more colorful language), and I thought, well, some people have it worse than me. At least in the bed area.

I wish still that someone could share his/her experience in starting a new life after this draining RS. Thanks.

[AbuNassif]

Joe, your story is so different than mine, but so much the same. I don't cry easily, but your writing almost took me there. You write beautifully by the way. You took a very complex story and organized it so it was not only readable, but relatable. You have talent.

The separation and divorce we are starting on is more painful than anything I could possibly have imagined, but I can tell I'm on the right path. If I survive financially, legally, emotionally... I don't care. If I survive, there will be a me at the end of all this, he will have a chance to start over.

I'm 52. I have 9 and 19 year olds from previous marriage. I have a 21 year old from this marriage (I lover her and consider her one of my own). I'm in debt up to my eyeballs. If you think your life is messy ... or feel you've failed ... You can overcome this. You have a good heart, you have a job, you have talent. And you're still young. Do whatever you have to for your 52 year old self, he'll thank you.

[JoeBPD81]

AbuNassif Thanks for your post.

I'm so sorry about what you are going through. I'm humbled by your experience, and ashamed that I complain when others have it so much worse. But I believe each of us has to deal with their own pain, and it doesn't bring much comfort to know that it could be worse.

Part of my feeling of being lost is that I can leave relatively "problem free" when the people I love that were my family can't seem to have an exit to this suffering and endless array of problems.

It's not that my situation is a mess, it is myself, as I can only find meaning in my life helping 3 people that have no use to my help except to prolong their suffering.

I'm sorry about your divorce, even mine that was civilized and was my decission was the worst time of my life. I thought I would be in trouble finantially too, but it turned out I spend much less on my own, and I manage. But at the time, I didn't know how long I could survive with my job, and in my state, nothing made sense.

I hope you survive in all fronts, and we get to hear from your YOU at the other side of this.

Thank you.

[AbuNassif]

Joe you can help those kids for sure. Show them there’s a better option. It won’t be long before they’re on their own, repeating patterns that are playing out for them right now.

Love!

[Lucky Jim]

I wish still that someone could share his/her experience in starting a new life after this draining RS.

Hey Joe, For me, starting over has meant returning to who I am at my core.  I strive to make my life a journey towards authenticity.  I listen to my gut feelings.  As Nietzsche said, "Become who you are"!

I also pay attention to my feelings and acknowledge it when emotions arise.  My feelings are part of me so I don't ignore or submerge them.  I try to recognize it when I am feeling strong emotions, do something to process them and then let them pass through me.

I had to learn self-love and self-acceptance, which sounds easy but is pretty hard for some of us Nons.  Hey, I'm human and so are you.  It's OK to be less than perfect.  Now I embrace my imperfections as part of me.

I suggest you return the focus to you and your needs.  As I said above, treat yourself with kindness and compassion.

LuckyJim

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks Lucky Jim ,

Is it working? I don't remember a time I was focused on myself. I was raised in the belief that the less you take for yourself and the more you give to others the better you are and the happier you'll become. Any vanity, any selfishness was plain wrong. I was corrected if I said that something was "mine" as everything in the house belonged to the family, not to each individual. The greatest love was to sacrifice yourself for others...

I know I have selfish impulses and reactions, and routines, but when I think about things rationally, I always put others in front of me. Ironically, if I don't do that, I don't feel I'm being faithful to myself. I see that I'm applying some black or white thinking myself. That I should be able to think about my own needs, without being a total selffish XXXXX.

So no, it doesn't sound easy at all, but I don't expect that I'll be able to do things I didn't know how to do before. Just to not feel that my existence is pointless.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Joe, Yup, it's working for me.  No, it's not selfish to take care of yourself; to the contrary, it's essential.  There's no valor in being the object of someone's scorn or abuse.

Like you, I valued self-sacrifice in my marriage, which sounds noble, but it nearly destroyed me.  I also lost myself in the process, which was not fun.  If you neglect self-love and self-care, you may find yourself with nothing left in the tank, so-to-speak.

The place to start, as I suggested, is with yourself and your needs.  Then work outwards from there.

LuckyJim

[AbuNassif]

Joe, that part you said about being selfless/selfish... stop right there. I grew up with a similar conflict between self-love and service to others. It’s been very confusing, but here’s a thought for you : Whatever you have to offer is going to be as valuable to who takes from you, as you are to yourself, or as valuable as you declare yourself to be to others. They are dishonest or just as confused about their own self worth who take from you and do not return in kind or in thanks. So be as selfless as you wish to be, if that’s where your self worth and love are, but it’s meaningless service to those who do not see value in you, or what you have to offer. Should your service be so meaningless?

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks for your answers.

I'm puzzled because out of the blue she had a couple of nice days. She's never 2 people on the same day, if she has a cinic day, she will be cinic all day and I can't expect any kindness. Is she has a kind day, I can do things that normally make her angry, and she says "it's ok" and doesn't give it any importance.

This weekend she's kissed me, she's been flirty and affectionate. And if the kids hadn't been around, I think we would have ended up in bed.

It's really hard to stay hurt by her, when she's suddently a different person all together. It's very confusing. I still fear that she might change at any time, but I also want to enjoy it while it lasts.

She has a very small job, just a few hours a week, but that's enough to make her feel not as useless as she usually feels, and that makes a huge difference. It also helps making her end of the finances ad up at the end of the month. I don't pay for her debts, because she doesn't even tell me.

I don't think things will change in the long run, but it's nice to have a break once in a while.