Need some advice please

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Can anyone help?  I am married with two beautiful daughters but wife has BPD.  My wife and my eldest daughter are constantly arguing as my daughter gets incredibly frustrated wife my wife’s erratic and unreasonable behaviour.  My wife then takes things out on me and is loving to my daughter but is spiteful and nasty to me because she sees it that either i am the cause, or I am not doing enough to help her.   I can’t easily discipline my daughter when she is frustrated with her mum because I know how she feels and she often confides in me.  I have tried to get my wife to talk to my daughter to understand how she feels but this just inflames the situation as my wife sees it that I am blaming her for the conflict.  My wife’s only position is that I should be defending her and backing her up.  Any advice from anyone who has been here before will be much appreciated as it hurts me so much that my wife is so hateful to me every single night, it feels me stressed and anxious, but I have to make sure I am there for my daughter too.

[Lonely dad 14]

Can anyone help?  I am married with two beautiful daughters but wife has BPD.  My wife and my eldest daughter are constantly arguing as my daughter gets incredibly frustrated wife my wife’s erratic and unreasonable behaviour.  My wife then takes things out on me and is loving to my daughter but is spiteful and nasty to me because she sees it that either i am the cause, or I am not doing enough to help her.   I can’t easily discipline my daughter when she is frustrated with her mum because I know how she feels and she often confides in me.  I have tried to get my wife to talk to my daughter to understand how she feels but this just inflames the situation as my wife sees it that I am blaming her for the conflict.  My wife’s only position is that I should be defending her and backing her up.  Any advice from anyone who has been here before will be much appreciated as it hurts me so much that my wife is so hateful to me every single night, it feels me stressed and anxious, but I have to make sure I am there for my daughter too.

[ForeverDad]

Your spouse ... You likely cannot ever get your spouse to see others' viewpoints and perspectives.  She views her perceptions and emotions as The Reality and will probably set aside your logic and reasonings all too soon.  As someone once phrased it, she can't or won't get past the emotional baggage of the family's history.  Maybe, just maybe, things can improve if she starts and continues meaningful long term DBT/CBT therapy.  Meanwhile, don't hold your breath.

Your daughter ... You should be careful not to invalidate your daughter's observations and conclusions.  For example, saying "your mother still loves you but..." may smooth things — or not! — but is invalidating.  (If you every end up in family court, it's nice to know that judges love counseling, don't believe your spouse's protests otherwise.)  Having trained and experienced professionals (who have previously dealt with BPD relationships) to assist and guide them through these tough years will be a great aid for you as the more reasonably normal parent.

How old are your daughters?  Do they see counselors?

You ... You too can use support.  Support from trusted friends and family, a counselor for yourself, and peer support such as that found here.  We've "been there, done that".  Collectively we have an immense store of wisdom, practical suggestions and time-tested strategies.  Read, ask, learn from what you find here.

Here is a link to topics on helpful validation and effective boundaries:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.msg13006508#msg13006508

[Notwendy]

For a family with a member with BPD, the whole family needs to in a sense go along with the pwBPD's feelings and excuse, often deny and keep secret, the pwBPD's behaviors.

It's easy to get young children to go along with this, but older children will eventually notice that something is amiss. They understand what behaviors are appropriate and what behaviors are not, they see other mothers and how these mothers behave.

This creates a conflict for the older child. They either deny their own reality- that boundary that tells them- this is is not OK behavior- and minimize it, and so remain in their parents' good graces, or assert what they know is true and face being rejected or punished.

A tough dilemma because the child also really wants to be loved by their parents. So they learn to minimize, excuse the behaviors. If they speak about it, they often get invalidated " but your mother loves you..." and they learn that it is OK for someone who loves you to also be abusive to you. In the future they may allow a partner to do that to them as well.

You can best help your daughter by validating her reality but also you are probably not the best one to do that as it keeps you in a triangle with your wife and your daughter.

I agree with Forever Dad that a trained professional is best equipped to do this with your daughters. They need to understand that it's not them, their perceptions are real, and how to navigate this kind of relationship with their mother while preserving their own boundaries.

I think the Karpman triangle is a good model for understanding where your wife is coming from. In my situation, my BPD mother is in victim perspective. She needed my father to take rescuer role. Your wife has basically said the same- your role is to defend her and back her up. In this scenario, your D is in persecutor role. You can not both defend your D and also please your wife.

My mother sees people as being on her side or not her side. I know this triangle well from the daughter perspective. My father  was devoted to my mother. He could not have it both ways. The hard part for me was understanding this pattern, before I understood the dynamics between them. I think this is a tough situation that probably is best helped by a trained professional who can do counseling with your girls, and possibly you too in order to help reduce the drama and conflicts.

[MeandThee29]

The other posts have some really helpful information.

It all came together for me when a professional I was seeing drew a diagram similar to a Karpman Drama Triangle showing how family dynamics were all askew and were going to remain that way and get worse. I was separated at the time, but it helped me see how my now-ex had become an unhealthy focus and source of turmoil.

She also showed me what is called a Winner's Triangle as the basis for healthy behavior. I have some aspects of codependency (not usual in these types of relationships), and it has been a struggle to learn more healthy ways of interacting. I do some volunteer work with disadvantaged women, and I really have to watch that I encourage responsibility and wise choices versus being a rescuer. It's a way to give back and helps me as well.

In my case, divorce broke the dynamic. My ex initiated it, but I knew by then that it had to be. I didn't have custody issues, but our young adults have had a lot to work through as well.

 

[zachira]

You are not alone in being concerned about how your wife having BPD affects your daughters, particularly the oldest one. There are many parents on this site who have a spouse or ex with BPD. I am the daughter of a mother with BPD, and my father started to make a big difference in my life for then and forever after my father's SIL talked to him about making my sister the golden child and ignoring me. From then on, my father went out of his way to spend lots of special time with me without my mother around. My father was very frustrated with my mother's constant melt downs and told me he had tried to get her to go see someone, and that he could do nothing about it. (This was after I had been arguing with my mother.) As a caring loving father, you are feeling frustrated and overwhelmed with your wife's behaviors while wanting to help you daughters. Of course your eldest daughter is angry about how her mother treats her, and the younger daugher is affected as well even though she is being more quiet about it. Are there ways to spend more time with your daughters without their mother while limiting how much they are around their mother? Is there any chance your daughters would be interested in therapy, making it clear this would a safe place to talk about their concerns living in a challenging family environment?

[Serenitywithin]

This whole Post is what I have been going through for the last several years. I am at a point now where I have papers drawn up and am prepping to exit if I cant get a last shot at helping her see the need to go to therapy for herself. Myself and the two oldest out of 4 children are going.

It is a hard road to take care of your girls and continue to love a wife with these types of reactions and not losing it.  I love my wife but I am to the point that I neeeeeeed to protect my daughters and their fragile personalities and feels at this point.

I feel for you and hope you are more successful at getting your BPDW help than I have been. She has started a few times but always quits.