Control and Vulnerability

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Some of you may have read my long thread ('or leave...don't know what to do').

I came to these boards in order to try to understand the extreme (and extremely quick) anger of my gf, the weird 'mind reading' she'd do of my intentions (always bad in her mind, never in mine), the mind reading expectations she had of me, the no-win situations I was put in, and the weird changing of the facts of stories and stating things that never happened (gaslighting) and her insistence that I had a bad memory, the double-standards in what she demanded of me but would dismiss if I asked for them. It's a long painful thread.

We haven't spoken in 5 weeks now and I"m still in a huge FOG- such guilt, such worry about how she is, such fear of the pain I"m suffering and fear of the pain I might be causing her. But I'm afraid to reach out to her for fear of being verbally abused and demeaned and blamed again, for fear of being called names and belittled, which would just set me back again.

Such a dilemma. I suffer intrusive obsessive thinking about her, about things she said, about the angry words she yelled at me, at things I might have done 'better'. My physiological stress levels are off the charts, I've lost 10-15 pounds over the last 8 weeks.

So I'm reading Stop Walking On Eggshells, again. Reading this helps me to, for at least a few minutes, think that maybe I'm not a horrible person, maybe I'm not alone.

This quote really stood out to me

Those  who  must  control  everything  fear  being  vulnerable. Why? Because  to  be  vulnerable  opens  up  one  to  be  shamed.  Control  is  a way  to  insure  that  no  one  can  ever  shame  us  again.  It  involves  con-trolling  our  own  thoughts,  expressions,  feelings,  and  actions.  And  it involves  attempting  to  control  other  people’s  thoughts,  feelings,  and actions.  (Bradshaw  1998)

I remember she once told someone, not me, but indirectly she shared it with me through text that she found it very difficult to be vulnerable in relationships. And she is VERY controlling of all aspects of her life, and very quickly became controlling of my life- my food I ate, the clothes she thought I should wear, how I should wear my hat, what friends I should have, how I ran my business (this she just criticized).

The food issue in particular was extremely foremost in her mind. She is mostly obsessive about the food she eats- must be extremely healthy, must be extremely local, must be low in sugar, etc. etc. She does this because she is concerned about health- she had some medical issues earlier in her life. She transferred that control about food to me and found me to be very wanting in that area. She even said in the beginning that she "needs me to eat better, I want you around a long time". Whenever she got mad at me, really dysregulated, she scream at me that I "ate sh*tty food". Like that is my number one sin. Which I don't, not her level of organic and homemade because I'm a single guy who doesn't really like cooking. But ok, not bad at all.

She would use crazy-making manipulations. She really is one of the most controlling people I've ever known.

I, on the other hand, was very vulnerable and perhaps even too open with my own fears and sexual abuse as a boy and worries.

The thing is, I feel for her. I can see how she is scared and fearful and that's why the controlling behavior comes out, that's why the anger and attacks arise. But...my goodness, the hurtful words and attacks and crazy-making have really hurt me too.

So sad, I had spent many weekends with her and her Mom and Dad, we had a great 'family', they loved me and I loved them. Her Mom was like another Mom to me, we really got along and enjoyed each other and I looked forward to spending time with them, having coffee with her Dad in the morning. Such a shame.

[jaded7]

Some of you may have read my long thread ('or leave...don't know what to do').

I came to these boards in order to try to understand the extreme (and extremely quick) anger of my gf, the weird 'mind reading' she'd do of my intentions (always bad in her mind, never in mine), the mind reading expectations she had of me, the no-win situations I was put in, and the weird changing of the facts of stories and stating things that never happened (gaslighting) and her insistence that I had a bad memory, the double-standards in what she demanded of me but would dismiss if I asked for them. It's a long painful thread.

We haven't spoken in 5 weeks now and I"m still in a huge FOG- such guilt, such worry about how she is, such fear of the pain I"m suffering and fear of the pain I might be causing her. But I'm afraid to reach out to her for fear of being verbally abused and demeaned and blamed again, for fear of being called names and belittled, which would just set me back again.

Such a dilemma. I suffer intrusive obsessive thinking about her, about things she said, about the angry words she yelled at me, at things I might have done 'better'. My physiological stress levels are off the charts, I've lost 10-15 pounds over the last 8 weeks.

So I'm reading Stop Walking On Eggshells, again. Reading this helps me to, for at least a few minutes, think that maybe I'm not a horrible person, maybe I'm not alone.

This quote really stood out to me

Those  who  must  control  everything  fear  being  vulnerable. Why? Because  to  be  vulnerable  opens  up  one  to  be  shamed.  Control  is  a way  to  insure  that  no  one  can  ever  shame  us  again.  It  involves  con-trolling  our  own  thoughts,  expressions,  feelings,  and  actions.  And  it involves  attempting  to  control  other  people’s  thoughts,  feelings,  and actions.  (Bradshaw  1998)

I remember she once told someone, not me, but indirectly she shared it with me through text that she found it very difficult to be vulnerable in relationships. And she is VERY controlling of all aspects of her life, and very quickly became controlling of my life- my food I ate, the clothes she thought I should wear, how I should wear my hat, what friends I should have, how I ran my business (this she just criticized).

The food issue in particular was extremely foremost in her mind. She is mostly obsessive about the food she eats- must be extremely healthy, must be extremely local, must be low in sugar, etc. etc. She does this because she is concerned about health- she had some medical issues earlier in her life. She transferred that control about food to me and found me to be very wanting in that area. She even said in the beginning that she "needs me to eat better, I want you around a long time". Whenever she got mad at me, really dysregulated, she scream at me that I "ate sh*tty food". Like that is my number one sin. Which I don't, not her level of organic and homemade because I'm a single guy who doesn't really like cooking. But ok, not bad at all.

She would use crazy-making manipulations. She really is one of the most controlling people I've ever known.

I, on the other hand, was very vulnerable and perhaps even too open with my own fears and sexual abuse as a boy and worries.

The thing is, I feel for her. I can see how she is scared and fearful and that's why the controlling behavior comes out, that's why the anger and attacks arise. But...my goodness, the hurtful words and attacks and crazy-making have really hurt me too.

So sad, I had spent many weekends with her and her Mom and Dad, we had a great 'family', they loved me and I loved them. Her Mom was like another Mom to me, we really got along and enjoyed each other and I looked forward to spending time with them, having coffee with her Dad in the morning. Such a shame.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi jaded7 

Lots of hurt and pain going on inside of you right now. That's completely normal, and I'm glad you are voicing that here with us, walking through a smidge of the grief and loneliness.

I love that quote you shared! It's so true! I can see it in my DH who has so much control. You have had a lot of personal experience with it too. It takes time to heal from it, one moment at a time. I'm still very much in process. You will get there. Keep going forward. I definitely want to encourage you to focus on yourself for right now, not your ex, as hard as that may be. What did you like to do for yourself, for self care, before you met your ex?

Are you able to do something for self care now? I'd love to hear how you do that. Please share with us!

 
Wools

[jaded7]

Hi Woolspinner, and thank you for your response.

Yes, such pain. And such confusion, and such aching and longing. But, as I said, fear as well.

That control quote really stood out for me in my now third reading of SWOE. I'm not a controlling person at all, so I don't really understand controlling behavior. I never had any desire to tell her what to do, what she should read, how she should eat or exercise or do her work...anything; and I have very little shame left in me after working through my sexual abuse, but I do still have some around intimacy, and boy did she trigger that through her behaviors (it's all in the thread, I'm past the point, thank goodness, of needing to write out all of the details to get someone to confirm for me these things were ...bad, mean, not normal, nice nice, strange, hurtful, etc.).

I used to like to play my guitar and listen to music- records in particular. I love the ritual of pulling out an album and dropping the needle on the record. Then I like to read about the music I'm listening to online. Since our implosion, I've been going to a healing center with sauna, steam room, hot bath pool, tea bar, etc. That has been good for me, especially in the hours between 5-8, which seem the hardest for me for some reason. I've also been able to put on a few records, which then makes me feel guilty! Guilty for not contacting her, guilty for trying to move on.

She was quite verbally and emotionally abusive to me, yet I feel guilt.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear jaded-

I’m sorry you’re going through such a difficult time.  I’ve read your posts, and also many of your kind responses to other members.

This is a hard, hard process, and I truly understand your confusion.  All of your questions.  I possibly understand many of your questions.  And I’m not so sure that ANY guilt lies with you.  Please stay with me.

I found this forum 3.5 years into my relationship with uBPDbf when  I googled the phrase “unprovoked rage in men”.  We “broke up” almost 2 weeks ago after 6.5 years.  Hard years.  I used the tools and tried SO hard to make this thing work.  Despite my best efforts and my own therapy, something was still off...WAY off.  He checked boxes for BPD, but still... there was this very very disturbing “entitlement”, this TAKING from me.  This literal feeling of his sucking the life out of me if I had any need of any sort.  Stealing, lying, gaslighting... too many unsettling things continued.  However I still don’t think he was unfaithful.

I had been realizing that his behaviors leaned more toward narcissism, especially some very recent cruel stuff.  Troubling stuff.  Shortly after he stormed out of here in his most recent RAGE on 2/13/2020, I watched a You Tube video by Dr. Ramani on Narcissists and I was just blown away.  I’m not easily impressed.  It was as if she had witnessed many things my BF had done.  A few nights later, I binged watched her videos all night.  And I gained REAL clarity.  Of him AND of myself.

Jaded - I now realize there was nothing, absolutely NOTHING I could have or should have done differently or better.  Except to maybe NEVER have a thought or feeling of my own.  It wasn’t worth it.  I needed him gone, and I set it up over the last few months so he’d have less impulse to worm his way back in.

So I’m asking you to look at a few of Dr. Ramani’s videos and let me know what you think?  Perhaps this will strike a chord for you?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[jaded7]

Thank you Gemsforeyes. I've read your posts and you too seem very thoughtful and kind, and you too have been through the ringer.

Just a huge amount of sadness and fear and confusion on this site, but also an equal or greater amount of kindness and support. Something we all need. What, 72% of the users of this site report serious depression?

I found this forum 3.5 years into my relationship with uBPDbf when  I googled the phrase “unprovoked rage in men”.  We “broke up” almost 2 weeks ago after 6.5 years.  Hard years.  I used the tools and tried SO hard to make this thing work.  Despite my best efforts and my own therapy,

Like with you, I have wondered if it was narcissism-like behavior (because all of our conversations always revolved around her, her life, her ex-h, her son, her interests, her family, her hobbies...almost never about my life, and if it was about my life it was always couched in terms of what I was doing wrong, how I needed to change to suit her, how planning was required on my end, but she could cancel plans at any time), or bpd because of the rages (that, in retrospect, seem to occur when she had decided that something I did or didn't do or said or didn't say revealed I wasn't "prioritizing our relationship". "Jaded, I need you to prioritize us". The "I need you to..." was VERY common in her communications.

Yes, I googled 'angry girlfriend' and 'yelling girlfriend", among many other things. And yes, I also spoke with my therapist often about how confusing and upsetting things were, and she one day said "Look, Jaded...I don't really feel comfortable most times saying this to people, I want them to come to their own decisions and conclusions, but this is abusive behavior. Pretty severe." That was shocking to me. I had decided that I was just so lacking and at fault and my pain and suffering was because I was somehow broken.

I now realize there was nothing, absolutely NOTHING I could have or should have done differently or better.  Except to maybe NEVER have a thought or feeling of my own


I hope I can really internalize this thought, and soon. I'm glad you have come to that realization, it gives me hope that I can too at some point in the future.

I remember saying to her, over and over again, I would do ANYTHING for you, I have never done anything intentionally to hurt you, I want only the best for you and want to be there for you. This is ALL I want!  I'd tell her I don't know where this stuff is coming from, the anger and disappointment in me. And still, I got so many accusations of not being there for her, not "showing up in her life" as she loves to say, yet I would immediately answer every call when she wanted to talk, immediately answer every text when she needed something, call and text repeatedly to se what I could do if she was sick at home, show up with no notice if she wanted to meet me somewhere or go for lunch, show up with 40 minutes notice to build her son's basketball hoop in the middle of the day, take her home from dental surgery and ride the bus 1.5 hours back home in the middle of the day. Anything, anything at all...if I was free, I'd do it for her.

Thanks Gemsforeyes, I appreciate the reply. Keep up the spirit!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey jaded7, I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain.  Now is a good time to figure out why you got involved with a pwBPD in the first place.  Hint: usually it has something to do with one's FOO or other childhood trauma.  Most healthy people would probably run for the hills at the first signs of BPD drama and instability, but not us Nons.  No, we stay and think someone will give us a medal for valor.  We lack boundaries.

I suggest you return the focus to you and your needs.  Strive to be authentic.  Get back to playing guitar and listening to music.  Listen to your gut feelings.  Your task, I suggest, is to never let yourself become the object of anyone's abuse again.

Going through the BPD crucible is extremely painful, but leads to greater happiness, which is what it's all about, right?

LuckyJim

[jaded7]

I'm just rereading in order to continue to gain some clarity.

The thinking that I've been wrong or bad is hard to dispel, especially when you've been told so many times about your many failings and shortcomings.

Yet, no one else in my life tells me I'm so bad, and I'm not.

Relationships, love, should be about support, understanding, acceptance, kindness, assuming good will, nurturing.

Disagreements should be approached with the desire to understand the other person's feelings, active listening, trying to see where they are coming from, mutuality and co-creation of a life together.

Relationships are not about competition, one-upmanship, controlling, criticizing, taking advantage of, demeaning comments.

I know these things, want these things. But, as someone said, I do realize that there was a LOT of FOO issues going on here. My therapy is making this clear. My Mom was very critical, controlling, withholding and didn't accept me as I am for many years when I was young. I believe I was trying to repair that with her, she very much reminds me of my Mom in some ways, and I once told her that our relationship reminded me of my Mom and Dad's, but in a good way. They were married for 52 years, and he was very happy go lucky and not controlling in any way, they balanced each other out nicely. I thought she and I could do that as well.

[Cromwell]

Hi Jaded7

Sorry for you going through this great upset and well done on the progress youve made so far. I found the point on control something that stood out.

There is a parallel in my own experience whith what you mention about not telling your ex what she could do etc.

I have in hindsight wondered if this was interpreted as a lack of caring or a lack of assertiveness or both when it came to being non-reactive to her devaluation moments. I have the feeling that she would have preferred more in the form of me contributing to arguments or critising her, I cant remember doing either. very easy going, do not want that sort of thing but in this relationship I more often than not sat quiet and did not add any fuel to the fire, it comes across as a pacifist but i dont regard myself as one either. In the back of my mind was remembering the easy going, loving side that I had experienced and I saw these as a phase to just sit tight and let pass, it did and this became reinforcement for me to stay.

The issue here is that they became a recurring theme and over the long term, not so much emotionally upsetting (I got desensitised to it) but just boring mostly to the point of wondering what a waste of time when could be doing joyful positive things. There were moments I got to where I would almost be able to interrupt if I wanted and finish her sentences for her, having heard so much of it previously. I put the experience more down to a lecture or one sided conversationalist as a way of detaching myself from it, much of it I zoned out of at times, she may as well have been talking to the wall.

I hear from your own therapy that there is looking into FOO stuff. I really feel this is significant possibly from our ex partners side too. I know my own FOO and can link stuff up - but what I know about my ex is only the version and fragments she chose to narrate. Regardless, I believe that whatever happened was carried through and I was made a whipping boy for unresolved issues with her FOO that were nothing to do with me. I wonder if you might have related to this in some way? I see it as one possible explanation, someone mentioned the term 'scapegoat' to me here before, I think that fits very well too.

When you mention the constant criticisms and pointing out so called failings and shortcomings. My ex told me often how she felt put down and devalued. What it felt when she went into devaluation mode was that she was just re-enacting as a form of mouth piece from her past, sure she had it in for me at that moment but her tool was copying what she believed would hurt me, as it did her, learned behaviour.

I did take it personally at the time, it did hurt, I wouldnt take it personally today though and it equally wouldnt have that effect. Im interested in any thoughts you might have around this and wish you well moving onward.

[Rev]

Hey Bro,

You've got all the wise one's weighing in here - so I'm going to let the pro's speak into the advice that you need about pacing with this all.

I'm just going to weigh in on the supportive side and say - I so relate to what you are feeling - especially how confusing and critical these relationships can be. And yes it hurts - big time. Like you, I would tell her how much I loved her and how much I wanted her happiness and all she did was get more angry with me.

And yes - the healing is coming for me too. But I'm not totally there yet. More good days than bad. But I need to invest time every day to keep my head in a healthy place. It's almost like having dialysis for the mind.

So thanks for sharing and reaching out. Not being alone - being understood - not feeling crazy - all these things are so important.

Have a great evening.

Rev

[jaded7]

Hi Jaded7

Sorry for you going through this great upset and well done on the progress youve made so far. I found the point on control something that stood out.

There is a parallel in my own experience whith what you mention about not telling your ex what she could do etc.

I have in hindsight wondered if this was interpreted as a lack of caring or a lack of assertiveness or both when it came to being non-reactive to her devaluation moments. I have the feeling that she would have preferred more in the form of me contributing to arguments or critising her, I cant remember doing either. very easy going, do not want that sort of thing but in this relationship I more often than not sat quiet and did not add any fuel to the fire, it comes across as a pacifist but i dont regard myself as one either. In the back of my mind was remembering the easy going, loving side that I had experienced and I saw these as a phase to just sit tight and let pass, it did and this became reinforcement for me to stay.

The issue here is that they became a recurring theme and over the long term, not so much emotionally upsetting (I got desensitised to it) but just boring mostly to the point of wondering what a waste of time when could be doing joyful positive things. There were moments I got to where I would almost be able to interrupt if I wanted and finish her sentences for her, having heard so much of it previously. I put the experience more down to a lecture or one sided conversationalist as a way of detaching myself from it, much of it I zoned out of at times, she may as well have been talking to the wall.

I hear from your own therapy that there is looking into FOO stuff. I really feel this is significant possibly from our ex partners side too. I know my own FOO and can link stuff up - but what I know about my ex is only the version and fragments she chose to narrate. Regardless, I believe that whatever happened was carried through and I was made a whipping boy for unresolved issues with her FOO that were nothing to do with me. I wonder if you might have related to this in some way? I see it as one possible explanation, someone mentioned the term 'scapegoat' to me here before, I think that fits very well too.

When you mention the constant criticisms and pointing out so called failings and shortcomings. My ex told me often how she felt put down and devalued. What it felt when she went into devaluation mode was that she was just re-enacting as a form of mouth piece from her past, sure she had it in for me at that moment but her tool was copying what she believed would hurt me, as it did her, learned behaviour.

I did take it personally at the time, it did hurt, I wouldnt take it personally today though and it equally wouldnt have that effect. Im interested in any thoughts you might have around this and wish you well moving onward.

My gf never said she felt put down, because I would never put her down. But she would get stories in her head about my 'intentions'- as in, my intentions were bad, or I was bad somehow.

Re: FOO, I know her Mom and Dad, they seem to have a really great relationship. I really like them. I have heard 'stories' about my gf in her high school years and how there was a great deal of conflict in the family, and I've heard that "she should have been a lawyer" because she loves to really go at it and win arguments. So there's that.

In seeing the Reiki hypnotherapist yesterday, we had a moment where she said that she really felt the energy of my gf's ex bf who committed suicide, and blamed her in the note (it's part of my original long story when I first came here), the energy had been present in the relationship. I wrote to my therapist today that I wonder if that 'energy' or fear caused her to 'push' me away with her anger and criticisms, keeping me distant. Or perhaps it was a way of re-enacting, I don't know.

I do know that if I even took one day to respond to her after a long bout of her yelling at me and calling me names and gaslighting me and cutting me off, etc. etc, which did happen a couple of times because I was so shell-shocked, she would absolutely tear into me with an email saying I was punishing and cruel and that it caused her PTSD from when her boyfriend killed himself.

I of course felt very bad about that happening for her, and would never want to cause that for her.

That may be a form of FOO, or just trauma, that she brought into it.

[Lifeinthefastlane]

Jaded

First off-congrats for making it 5 weeks-it is hard and not easy. I’m now at 73 days after no contact (4 months since she broke up with me by phone 10 seconds after telling me she had cancer). She would not see me at all since then. We were together for 2 yrs.

I want to support you in how you are thinking through your choices. I did try everything I could to be there for her for the surgery etc.. but she only took the 3 conversations to treat me poorly and verbally abuse me. She blamed me for the “miscommunications” in the relationship, etc... she had completely created a whole new story in her head even to how the breakup happened so she looks like a victim/martyr. I finally had to stop and say i deserved to be treated with respect. Thats when I went no contact (through help of this board). I set my alarm to send me positive messages for every 12 hours I kept no contact, and then I had to start scheduling things with others to have something to think about rather than her. The gaslighting makes you doubt yourself and causes confusion in what to do next. They also make us feel responsible for decisions they made, but truth is we are not. It does take time, but you should be proud of how far you’ve come in being able to acknowledge what abuse you went through.

How can you focus on you and strengthening your own self-worth?

[jaded7]

Jaded

First off-congrats for making it 5 weeks-it is hard and not easy. I’m now at 73 days after no contact (4 months since she broke up with me by phone 10 seconds after telling me she had cancer). She would not see me at all since then. We were together for 2 yrs.

I want to support you in how you are thinking through your choices. I did try everything I could to be there for her for the surgery etc.. but she only took the 3 conversations to treat me poorly and verbally abuse me. She blamed me for the “miscommunications” in the relationship, etc... she had completely created a whole new story in her head even to how the breakup happened so she looks like a victim/martyr. I finally had to stop and say i deserved to be treated with respect. Thats when I went no contact (through help of this board). I set my alarm to send me positive messages for every 12 hours I kept no contact, and then I had to start scheduling things with others to have something to think about rather than her. The gaslighting makes you doubt yourself and causes confusion in what to do next. They also make us feel responsible for decisions they made, but truth is we are not. It does take time, but you should be proud of how far you’ve come in being able to acknowledge what abuse you went through.

How can you focus on you and strengthening your own self-worth?

me for the “miscommunications” in the relationship, etc.

Oh my gosh, her use of the word 'miscommunication'- when she decided to show up at my place unannounced and no plan to meet up, miscommunication. When she decided to ignore a plan we put on the calendar-shared google calendar, put it in together- after yelling at me for 'forgetting' plans (that were never made) and not keeping a calendar and therefore not "prioritizing" our relationship-miscommunication. It was a go to excuse when she ignored things we said we'd do, or when she just decided to do something on her own.

I'm traveling for work today and working on a deal for my business, so that keeps my mind's ruminations at bay a bit. I'm trying to eat more healthy stuff, and more in general since I've lost 15 pounds, and I'm trying to get as much good sleep as I can.

It's just so hard. I feel like I'm hurting her and I'd never want to do that, and I feel like I driving the nails in the coffin of the relationship, which makes me so sad. And yet...when I write down the things she's said to me, the manipulations that made me feel horrible about myself, the anger and the blaming and put-downs, I wonder what is wrong with me.