Shame. Diffusing explosions. Weakness.

[mongazish]

One thing that I would like to see if anyone can relate to or that I can maybe gain clarity on is looking back at how arguments happened, or how blowups happened. And it is really hard for me to find what really set everything off? My ex would be triggered by something and would shut down easily and be very down and depressed or about to explode and so I would do my best to let her know that I was there and that she could feel how she was feeling and express whatever she felt she needed to express. And usually I would end up triggering her more. She would get really upset and not like my tone and accuse me of acting like nothing was wrong. Or not like how I tried to hug her. She would become snarky and talk about how I was horrible at cheering her up and should try harder and try other methods. Other times I would try other things like distracting her and she just needed a hug. It seemed the response she wanted/needed from me was always different so I eventually never really knew what to do and became even more useless when she was in those low states. Very occasionally I would respond in just the right amount of detachment and humor to relieve her a little bit. But those times were rare. It created a lot of cognitive dissonance and shame, leaving me with this feeling that I have no empathy and can't read people at all and can't help people, which is something I have always felt I was pretty good at.

So ultimately, I can't tell if I was actually just bad at being there for someone I really cared about when they needed me to be, or if she just didn't know what she wanted and was too reactive to receive anything from me at the time. Would love to know what anyone else's experiences with this are.   

[clvrnn]

I don't think it's that you are bad at being there for someone.

During a rage with my ex, (and previous 'lectures' from her), even simple gestures, comments or even "I understand" were taken in the completely wrong way, and accused of being antagonising things. It seems as if most communication during these times is 'wrong'.

I remember my ex lecturing me, and I'd started by defending myself. Then she got even more angry because I was talking too much. So I dropped my sentences down to "I understand. OK" and I was then shouted at for not listening/saying enough/paying attention. Honestly, you're not alone in having that experience, and it isn't that you weren't good enough at being supportive. I'm sure there are other people in your life, or other instances where you handled conflict/distress with others that didn't end up the way it did with your pwBPD?

[jaded7]

I don't think it's that you are bad at being there for someone.

During a rage with my ex, (and previous 'lectures' from her), even simple gestures, comments or even "I understand" were taken in the completely wrong way, and accused of being antagonising things. It seems as if most communication during these times is 'wrong'.

I remember my ex lecturing me, and I'd started by defending myself. Then she got even more angry because I was talking too much. So I dropped my sentences down to "I understand. OK" and I was then shouted at for not listening/saying enough/paying attention. Honestly, you're not alone in having that experience, and it isn't that you weren't good enough at being supportive. I'm sure there are other people in your life, or other instances where you handled conflict/distress with others that didn't end up the way it did with your pwBPD?

Ahh the lectures from her. I would be lectured on everything from the food I eat, the clothing I wear, how I drive (the worst ever, never riding with again or allowing anyone she knows to), my marketing of my business, my partnerships in my business, my Instagram posts, my plastic sleeves I use for signs outside my business...I could go on and on.

They'd come in all forms- by text, phone, IG direct messages, email. I remember the last IG direct message lecture I got- after days of ghosting me and ignoring communications because she was "busy", she found time to demean me yet again. I just responded "Ok". Not worth the fight.

[clvrnn]

Ahh the lectures from her. I would be lectured on everything from the food I eat, the clothing I wear, how I drive (the worst ever, never riding with again or allowing anyone she knows to), my marketing of my business, my partnerships in my business, my Instagram posts, my plastic sleeves I use for signs outside my business...I could go on and on.

They'd come in all forms- by text, phone, IG direct messages, email. I remember the last IG direct message lecture I got- after days of ghosting me and ignoring communications because she was "busy", she found time to demean me yet again. I just responded "Ok". Not worth the fight.

These sound JUST like the ones I'd get - all regarding things that didn't really matter. Like yours mentioned your Instagram posts, or the plastic sleeves you used; mine would target the how often I changed my WhatsApp Picture, or how I couldn't watch films 'properly' (because I'd started a film 3 mins in to avoid the introductory credits), etc - it began to feel as if I was severely disliked! It does reduce you down to "OK" in the end. No point even saying any more than that. And then saying "OK" becomes a problem, because you're not paying attention, you're not listening! Never ending. Glad that's over.

[mongazish]

I don't think it's that you are bad at being there for someone.

During a rage with my ex, (and previous 'lectures' from her), even simple gestures, comments or even "I understand" were taken in the completely wrong way, and accused of being antagonising things. It seems as if most communication during these times is 'wrong'.

I remember my ex lecturing me, and I'd started by defending myself. Then she got even more angry because I was talking too much. So I dropped my sentences down to "I understand. OK" and I was then shouted at for not listening/saying enough/paying attention. Honestly, you're not alone in having that experience, and it isn't that you weren't good enough at being supportive. I'm sure there are other people in your life, or other instances where you handled conflict/distress with others that didn't end up the way it did with your pwBPD?

Yes, I relate to this a lot. If I tried to be calm but direct and express myself in a non-combative way, she would usually get frustrated because she couldn't follow me. And on the contrary to give too little made me seem cold or uncaring. Similar to how you said. I think it comes down to someone who is in such a reactive state, can't hear anything really. They just take it all with a heaping scoop of salt and attitude for self-security.

I have had many other situations with people where conflicts were diffused quite easily, often before they really became more than a disagreement. This was the first relationship I have been in (romantic or non) that disagreements seemed insurmountable and like they completely breached our connection with each other.

[mongazish]

I would be lectured on everything from the food I eat, the clothing I wear, how I drive (the worst ever, never riding with again or allowing anyone she knows to), my marketing of my business, my partnerships in my business, my Instagram posts, my plastic sleeves I use for signs outside my business...I could go on and on.

Yes. It feels good to know I am not alone in this position. She never completely deluded me or consciously manipulated me (that I know of) but it was often just very defensive lecturing or nitpicking like you have said. She would often joke about hating people and how much humans suck. And during a text conversation she told me that I psyched myself out a lot, probably because of harsh realities that I was afraid of facing. I asked her what harsh realities I needed to face. She said maybe like the fact that you actually have to go into the world and interact with all these horrible humans...I was kind of speechless. It was textbook projection, so much that I didn't really know what to say. I was always the one trying to help her see how the world isn't just a horrible place even though she always says it is. It was mind boggling. But that was a long time ago. Thank you for sharing!

[jaded7]

These sound JUST like the ones I'd get - all regarding things that didn't really matter. Like yours mentioned your Instagram posts, or the plastic sleeves you used; mine would target the how often I changed my WhatsApp Picture, or how I couldn't watch films 'properly' (because I'd started a film 3 mins in to avoid the introductory credits), etc - it began to feel as if I was severely disliked! It does reduce you down to "OK" in the end. No point even saying any more than that. And then saying "OK" becomes a problem, because you're not paying attention, you're not listening! Never ending. Glad that's over.

Yep, not watching films properly. Not stacking my records properly, not shelving books properly, not driving properly, not eating properly, not storing my supplements on the counter in the right place properly, not closing the lid on the supplements properly, not storing my washcloth properly, not stacking my pillows properly...on and  on.

Yep, just saying ok. I literally laughed when she said I was the worst driver ever (not even close to true, never had an accident in 30 years, did race car instruction) and that made her mad and she'd say "It makes it feel like you don't listen to me when you offer to pick up my sister and niece at the airport. You're a terrible driver and I've told you that I'm not riding with you ever again, and you're not picking up my sister".

Ok.

[daze507]

Same as you guys, in the end I was not even moving or saying anything anymore because it was just pointless, at least by doing nothing I was not spending useless energy.
Sometimes, when she was carrying on and on and on I just snapped and yelled at her to shut the f* up and, to my great surprise, she often did it.

[Lucky Jim]

Friends,

Same for me, though I would describe her lectures more as diatribes or tirades!  Validation and empathy are the preferred strategies, see Tools above, but I found those techniques ineffective when my BPDxW went into an out-of-body state with her emotions running rampant.  It's hard to validate when one is ducking a wine bottle thrown at one's head!

I left the room, only to have her chase me around the house.  I left the house, only to find myself locked out upon my return.

No, mongazish, I doubt you were "bad at being there" for her, so don't beat yourself up.

LuckyJim

[mongazish]

I left the room, only to have her chase me around the house.  I left the house, only to find myself locked out upon my return.

Thank you for sharing! I can relate to this a lot. It is hard to validate someone in need of validation but who also isn't in a state of receptivity to validation. It just seems like more attack. Many times I would be yelled at and told to leave and I would leave and be locked out and then after being let back in would be told how she never actually wanted me to leave. The contradiction is insatiable and very difficult on both sides.

[Rev]

Thank you for sharing! I can relate to this a lot. It is hard to validate someone in need of validation but who also isn't in a state of receptivity to validation. It just seems like more attack. Many times I would be yelled at and told to leave and I would leave and be locked out and then after being let back in would be told how she never actually wanted me to leave. The contradiction is insatiable and very difficult on both sides.

Oh... oh... oh... so much like my own story. The real problem is you can't grieve these relationships in the same way - there's no closure because nothing ever works - and the people you are grieving aren't really who they said they were in the first place.

I did CBT, it helps. It will take time, and you'll likely need to leave certain things behind to move on.

Really sucks boy - so, so confusing.

Rev

[mongazish]

Oh... oh... oh... so much like my own story. The real problem is you can't grieve these relationships in the same way - there's no closure because nothing ever works - and the people you are grieving aren't really who they said they were in the first place.

I did CBT, it helps. It will take time, and you'll likely need to leave certain things behind to move on.

Really sucks boy - so, so confusing.

Rev

I have been in such a strange grey area of grief since we separated. Thank you for saying this. It feels like nothing even really happened even though we were together for a few years? It feels like a mutual split but also like neither of us wanted it. It felt like we just had to. Like it wasn't even a choice. Nothing has felt like closure. I haven't gone no contact but I don't initiate contact. For the most part. We are still really friendly and will see each other once in a while but it is hard for me to know what it really means when there isn't any defined sense of a direction. I may be prolonging my own suffering by thinking we can maintain a friendship but I also don't want to just discard it all on principle because of what people usually do. I have been doing CBT as well, although it has taken me a while to find a therapist that I feel good talking to. So I will see how this process goes. Very confusing. And hard to relate to others. Most people just think it's a breakup and are like "yeah breakups are tough it happens to everyone." But this is different. Actually different.

[Rev]

I have been in such a strange grey area of grief since we separated. Thank you for saying this. It feels like nothing even really happened even though we were together for a few years? It feels like a mutual split but also like neither of us wanted it. It felt like we just had to. Like it wasn't even a choice. Nothing has felt like closure. I haven't gone no contact but I don't initiate contact. For the most part. We are still really friendly and will see each other once in a while but it is hard for me to know what it really means when there isn't any defined sense of a direction. I may be prolonging my own suffering by thinking we can maintain a friendship but I also don't want to just discard it all on principle because of what people usually do. I have been doing CBT as well, although it has taken me a while to find a therapist that I feel good talking to. So I will see how this process goes. Very confusing. And hard to relate to others. Most people just think it's a breakup and are like "yeah breakups are tough it happens to everyone." But this is different. Actually different.

I echo that this is different, that many do not understand, that makes it really hard for me professionally. And wow - the conditions of the breakup - not really wanting it - but its what had to happen - she blew up our debt and started an emotional affair with her new found biological brother and I found out - and it is like nothing happened in our five years. I feel like I've come through a worm hole - what an odyssey.

Where it differs is that post break-up it has been far from friendly. My ex displays NPD traits as well (not uncommon) I have a cease and desist written by my lawyer. She showed up unannounced at my place of work with personal effects in tow and the brother as well. 

So in one sense, that has provided me the closure I needed. She really is not well.  And I grieve that as well.

Reach out again if you'd like. And I'll do the same if that's okay.

It sounds as if we are at least sorting out similar thoughts and feelings. These days, I am left feeling exhausted after what has been a very odd and trying ten months.

Thanks for the chat.

Rev

[mongazish]

I echo that this is different, that many do not understand, that makes it really hard for me professionally. And wow - the conditions of the breakup - not really wanting it - but its what had to happen - she blew up our debt and started an emotional affair with her new found biological brother and I found out - and it is like nothing happened in our five years. I feel like I've come through a worm hole - what an odyssey.

Yes, what an odyssey! I definitely have the wormhole feeling. It has been getting better with time, although it can still be triggered. And when it does it still feels fresh and right in my throat and chest. Thank you as well! I will be around here if you need to bounce anything back and forth.