Dealing with the mess, a little help please?

[Fel9602]

Prepare yourself for the wall. I'm really sorry. Also English is just my 2nd language, so please have mercy .

Hi you all. So, almost 3 weeks ago me (M24) and my ex bf (M26) decided to end our relationship. We were together for one year and a half, and things were not going great at least since July. When we first met he was seeing a psychiatrist and taking meds for BDP, and I supported him. After a while his psychiatrist told him he didn't feel the need for therapy anymore and that he was ready to deal with being borderline all by himself. He was really proud and happy, and I was too. He took a job, and for a while things were amazing. I was madly in love with this guy, I did everything I could for him. I remember thinking about marrying him. He was the love of my life. Then, things went South really slowly. He became stressed and distant. I started to feel unappreciated. He told me he was starting to feel depressed. He quit his job and made plans to get a degree. But he wasn't happy, I wasn't happy. I told myself that I was just feeling lonely and that maybe I needed to meet new friends since my social life has always been scarce. I told him what I was doing, but when he read my conversations with other guys he started to feel like he couldn't trust me anymore.

He called his therapist and he told him he needed meds again and that I was being a dick. And also that my behaviour created a crack between us and that he didn't think we would have been able to fix it. We talked a lot and he told me that I was his whole world, but he didn't feel like he was my whole world. I don't even think that a healthy relationship would have had this kind of dynamics... I want to be my own whole world. That's it. But if that was what he wanted it was right for him not to feel like he could settle for what I was offering. So we talked and decided to end our relationship.

I didn't go No-contact with him... I do still love him, obviously, and he does still love me. He is a wonderful guy and I don't want to abandon him. I want him to become my best friend and want to be his best friend. The problem is that he is really hurt. He is starting to feel like I one-sidely decided to break up with him, and that I didn't love him enough. He started to drink to ease the pain, and he told me once that he wanted to die (before we met he tried to kill himself multiple times and he loved to self-harm). When he his calm though, he seems reasonable and says that he still wants to be my friend. He also told me that he still wants to work on getting back together but I don't feel like I'm ready. I'm totally worn out by this situation and I feel like I can't even think straight, so I don't want to make decisions for the time being.

So onto now, here I am questioning our choices. I'm wondering if we were wrong when we decided to break up and if I should really consider asking him to get back together again.

Also I'm wondering if our current feelings are due to codependency. I really felt like his life was my responsibility and that I couldn't even breath without him holding my hand. I'm having a hard time dealing with my emotions, I'm feeling really guilty and I feel like I have ruined all his projects and dreams. He told me that I shattered him, I destroyed him. He told me that he thinks I wish he was dead.

Also all my friends told me that I should really stop texting him and that it is really weird that we are still on (mainly) good terms. So our idea to remain friends, is it wishful thinking? What do you think? I really need some advice and perspective.

Again, I'm sorry for the long post. Thank you for reading all this mess!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Fel9602, and

Then, things went South really slowly. He became stressed and distant. I started to feel unappreciated. He told me he was starting to feel depressed.

can you tell us more about how things went South, and what happened between the two of you?

He is a wonderful guy and I don't want to abandon him. I want him to become my best friend and want to be his best friend. The problem is that he is really hurt. He is starting to feel like I one-sidely decided to break up with him, and that I didn't love him enough.
...
So onto now, here I am questioning our choices. I'm wondering if we were wrong when we decided to break up and if I should really consider asking him to get back together again.
...
Also all my friends told me that I should really stop texting him and that it is really weird that we are still on (mainly) good terms. So our idea to remain friends, is it wishful thinking? What do you think? I really need some advice and perspective.
[/quote]

broadly speaking:

it is hard, but hardly impossible, to be friends with an ex. i am pretty good friends with an ex that cheated on me, and smeared me to a lot of people. its water under the bridge, and today, we get on fine.

but our relationship today looks nothing like it ever did.

so youre asking a couple of different questions here, about the differences and possibilities when it comes to the two of you either being friends or getting back together. the important thing to understand is that the paths to either one of those things can look very different. and the hard thing, right now, might be to choose one path (or work toward choosing one path) and commit to it.

you dont have to decide today. we can help you navigate this rocky path. but more background on what led the two of you to breakup, and which way youre leaning right now will definitely help inform us as to how best support you.

[Fel9602]

Thank you for your answer! Here is more information and a little sad update.

Things started to get worse and worse in July because of his job! Things changed, collegues were fired... he started to be so stressed out. Almost everything I did made him angry and annoyed.
I almost always kept my calm and tried to support him the best I could but I started to feel like he was taking me for granted.

The situation never got better until he decided to quit his job, but the damage was done. We weren't happy anymore and he was relapsing. We talked about our problems but we were so damaged that our relationship was hurting his mental health. He had a few panic attacks and depersonalization crisis. Then the trust issues started and after a few days we decided to end our relationship while trying to stay on good terms. My idea was to give him time to heal and after a while, maybe, getting back together... so we continued to talk to each other through phone calls and text messages.

But after a few days he started to drink, a lot. He would get drunk in his room, at night, all by himself. We live in two different cities and we can't see each other because of the Coronavirus Crisis, so I can't come to his aid during those moments.

In the mean time, the situation evolved. Two nights ago he called me while he was drunk and told me I destroyed him and that I'm uncapable of loving anyone. Yesterday morning I called him and I invited him to stop drinking because if he is drunk he can't take his meds, but he told me that it's non of my business.
I told him that I'm not comfortable being friend with someone who treats me badly and calls me names and he told me that if I really want to be his friend I should put up with his behaviour. After that we didn't talk anymore and he refuses to answer my texts...

This is a mess and I'm hurting so much. He is detroying himself and I can't do anything about it... at least I'm sure he is still seeing his therapist.

[once removed]

I told him that I'm not comfortable being friend with someone who treats me badly and calls me names and he told me that if I really want to be his friend I should put up with his behaviour. After that we didn't talk anymore and he refuses to answer my texts...

dont make ultimatums or threats you arent prepared to back up, and live by. they will be tested.

if you really want to be his friend (or lover) you shouldnt put up with his behavior. but realistically, it should be expected. realistic expectations are critical when it comes to loving someone with BPD traits, or, for that matter, deciding to let go with grace.

the question, if your choice is the former, is how to do that without "putting up with it". which, through support, and learning the tools, is a balance that a lot of us have to find...for example, you might cut the conversation short and disengage when hes on a drunken roll. but you also might find yourself with communication cut off, like you describe.

hes in crisis, and it sounds like, at least in that moment, he was blaming you for it...its a really delicate line to walk, that youre trying to walk, because you care about him (as a person), you have feelings for him (as a lover), and you arent entirely sure whether youre leaning more toward the idea of friends or lovers.

one thing that may help, is that whether the two of you get back together, right now you are an ex lover. trying to be an emotional support system in that position is really complicated. he has resentment. you have resentment. you have hope. he has hope.

threading this needle is doable, its just going to take some sober analysis, and really strong boundaries, and commitment.

its been a few days. any update?

[Fel9602]

Thank you for answering, I really needed to hear that my expectations must be realistic.

First of all, an update. I couldn't deal with being ghosted, so I texted him a long and heartfelt message saying that I would always be ready to listen to him if he wants to talk but that I would not try to force myself on him. The day after my text he answered saying that he wasn't trying o ghost me but he was only trying to get a reaction from me.

This really upsetted me because I think it's immature of him and I felt like I was emotionally abused. I told thim that this is unacceptable and he didn't really understand... anyway, I swallowed my pride and tried to reconnect with him and to deal with our problems, because I didn't want to end up being ghosted again and I didn't want him to have another crisis.
He told me that his drinking is, in itself, a crisis, and not a way he uses to calm himself (which is what I thought it was), so he is unable to control his "drinking problem". And also told me that I can't set boundaries like "if you want to be my friend you can't neither get drunk nor insult me" because he wouldn't be able to respect them. So again he told me that I should out up with his behaviour.
Then he asked if I figured out what I really wanted from him at this point, and I think I just want us to be good friends. I don't think I'm mature and strong enough to endure a relationship with someone who isn't stable. It breaks my heart to say this but I just think I would hurt him and myself, and I love him very very much. When he is calm and lucid, he is a wonderful guy (months ago I really thought about us getting our place, getting married, becoming the classic sub-urban gay couple, maybe getting a dog), but when he has a crisis I don't think I can really do anything about it... and I'm afraid I would just trigger his worst insticts. I don't want to catch him cutting himself or burning sigarettes all over his arm. So I guess... I'm just freaking scared of not being able to handle all of this.

So at the moment we text when we want to check on each other. Today we didn't speak at all, and it's ok. I know that if I want to talk to him I can just text him, and he knows the same thing. I like it this way for now.
He is still going to therapy and he told me that out of his 45 minutes with the therapist, 35 are dedicated to me. I don't know how to feel about this, but I guess it's really none of my business.
I want to heal and get over my sense of guilt... sometimes at night I stay up until 4AM just thinking about how much I ruined his life and it's horrible.

I'm sorry for the long update... the most important thing is that I want to focus on us being friend. I don't want us to get together, not now and not in the foreseeable future. So my next question is: I know more crisis are coming and they are going to be awful. How can I deal with those? How can I be a good friend for someone who is going through a serius BDP relapse?

[once removed]

the most important thing is that I want to focus on us being friend. I don't want us to get together, not now and not in the foreseeable future. So my next question is: I know more crisis are coming and they are going to be awful. How can I deal with those? How can I be a good friend for someone who is going through a serius BDP relapse?

then you need "friendship boundaries".

you dont want this to be different than how you treat other friends. you, presumably, are not as emotionally attached, or at least in the same way, to your friends, as you are to this guy.

so its going to require a certain level of distancing and detaching. a resetting of the norms in your relationship.

and make no mistake, achieving that will probably not come without some stress and cost between the two of you. if he senses you pulling away, he may become more volatile.

one of my best, closest, life long friends has a self admitted drinking problem. i treat it very differently than i would a romantic partner. it by and large does not affect me, because thats the way our relationship is set up. i will hang out with him if he drinks too much, because he doesnt get out of control. i wouldnt let him drive me around. if i had kids, i wouldnt let him drive them around. but thats about it.

as a close friend, i care about him, and im concerned about him, but there is a certain fine line in terms of the extent of how his problems become my problems. by and large, they dont. if he had emotional outbursts at me when he gets drunk (he doesnt), i would adjust our relationship accordingly, if they were hurtful to me.

thats how i would approach this, if you want to be friends. as hard as it may be, give up the outcome in terms of his drinking problem. the best way to help him, if at all, is just to be a good friend, with good boundaries.

[Fel9602]

It's going to be a rough journey. I need to work a lot on myself... I can't blame him for having a problem, and at the same time I can't throw away all my feeling and let him treat me badly. It's going to be hard to find an equilibrium, by nature I tend to be really accomodating and probably this led to problems in our relationship.

Anyway, things here are moving pretty fast. The same day I wrote my last update, I texted him just to check on him. We talked a little bit and I felt he was feeling really distressed... So he told me that just by writing him "how are you" he felt like I was hurting him. Which I get it, he is not doing well so I should have expected something like that. But then he did something that finally showed me that he was fighting back. He asked me to stop texting him for a while.
I told him that it was making me feel obviously sad, but that I was ok with it.

So since then we haven't talked at all. But tonight he took a further step: he cancelled me from all social media.
This triggered my fear of losing him, though. In the last few days I didn't check on him on socials, but when he pop-up on my feeds I was happy to have a chance to see how he was doing, to see if he was feeling fine or sad/depressed. Now I can't see anything, I can't relief my anxiety and my fear of losing him... So right now I'm panicking.
I don't want to lose him. I don't want him do to stupid things. It's like I constantly want to take care of him. That's why I think our relationship was codependent... I can't stop thinking about taking care of him.
Just for clarity: he didn't block me on texting apps, so we still have a way to contact each other.

Sometimes I even catch myself thinking about asking him to get back together. Sometimes I come really close to do that, but then I remember when he told me he wanted to die, after we broke up... I can't deal with something like this. I'm just 24, I look at the relationships my friends have, and no one has to deal with something like that. And I feel like a horrible person comparing my relationship to other's, but I can't help it. And at the same time sometimes I feel like I can't live without him and that I will never find someone I'll love like I love him. When he was feeling calm and peaceful our relationship was amazing, and I miss those moments.

I'm sorry, I don't even know what to ask. This update turned into a rant, a mess. I'm so sorry and I thank whoever even tried to read this mess. Any piece of advice is welcome... I'm just here trying to keep myself together.

[once removed]

im careful when i say this:

the best thing you can do in the immediate is probably to give some space. and im saying that when i know, and as you say, you probably just want to reach out, and fix everything.

blocking you on everything is a big time drama move. you dont want to respond to a big time drama move with drama. it escalates the drama. it may even reinforce that what he did works. chasing is not sustainable and is counter to your goals.

you say you dont want to be a doormat or accept bad treatment. this is a good test of that. let him spin a little bit, and get back to baseline. because when hes back to baseline, thats when anything you want to do will be more constructive.

id give it a week. you say theres a channel still open, and id reach out to him by text. id keep it really light hearted and upbeat. dont mention whats going on or that he blocked you. i wouldnt get deep, and id take a cue and not ask how hes doing. maybe send something fun that reminds you of him, or an inside joke between the two of you, something like that, that invites, but doesnt obligate a response.

what do you think?

[Fel9602]

I agree that this is a drama move and that I shouldn't respond with drama. I don't want to do that at all.
I have to admit that I didn't think of this move as a cry for attention. I just supposed that this was his attempt to move on, and to eliminate some sources of pain. I think that his behaviour is immature and childish, but I don't blame him... if seeing me causes him so much pain, he is right to choose to stop seeing me.

Aside from all this, I don't want to reach out. When he asked me to stop texting me, I told him I would wait for him to reach out whenever he would feel comfortable. He knows I'm waiting for him and that he shouldn't wait for something coming from my side. At least this was our agreement.

The only thing I may about (while being lucid and not while panicking) is waiting a few months and then sending him a letter, but I'm scared I would hurt him more.

Also, I know from what I heard from some mutual friends that he is calling me selfish, he is saying I have abandoned him and that I'm immature and a person better lost than found. I'm not mad about all thos things, I get that he is probably splitting and he is seeing me as some kind of monster, but this also gives me an insight about the point he is at dealing with this situation. I woulnd't want to reach out out of nowhere just to mess with his mourning process and his feelings.

[Fel9602]

I thought about updating you guys, since the situation has evolved once more.

This week has been rough for me, there were horrible moment in which I felt my brain burning, my heart racing and all I wanted was texting my ex bf. It was ugly, but I'm proud I didn't do it. I continued to think about how all this is good for him, for us, for me, I focused only on that.

Anyway, yesterday he unblocked me on social media. I started seeing his face popping up now and then, since we follow the same people and the same pages and groups on Facebook and Instagram. This made me feel... relieved. I could see that he is, well, still alive, and as long as I can tell, he is doing fairly ok. 
A friend of his posted something on Instagram that made me worry a little bit though: she posted a screenshot of a conversation between the two of them, they were joking but I could tell that my ex bf was clearly drunk... So he didn't stop drinking.

I'm obviously glad that my bf is not alone. I'm glad that he is talking to people, that he is living his life. But I'm still feeling guilt for what I put him through, and I am still missing him a lot. I want us to get back together, I want us to be lovers again... But there is a voice inside me that says it would be awesome for the first month, and then I would find myself in this situation all over again, or maybe even in a worse situation.

Probably I'm really convinced that I'm not mature enough to handle his BDP. Maybe I'm just scared, or probably just selfish as he once told me. The only things I know is that I don't want to hurt him, and that I have to stop feeling like I have to save his life/make his life better.

[once removed]

I have to stop feeling like I have to save his life/make his life better.

if its one thing ive learned here, and in life experience, you dont "stop" feeling way or another. you learn to process and manage feelings. and ideally, feelings lessen, even change. but often times, the harder you try to make a feeling go away, the more it persists.

so resisting urges for solid reasons is good. you dont want to act impulsively, or to get yourself into something thats difficult to get out of.

but whats next?

[Fel9602]

I don't really know yet. I know that right now being apart and being no contact is making me feel a little better, and I really hope that this is having the same effect on him as well... so I'm confident that right now we are doing the right thing. We need to heal and process our grief.

When I think about the future, I realize that if we really want to build something (a friendship, or another relationship) we will need to talk in person, and that will be possibile only when the Coronavirus-related situation will be over. This means that, at least where we are from, it will be possible to meet around June, probably later. So we have plenty of time to think about our future, all by ourselves.