When your family won't honor NC? Part 3

[Depression = 72% of members]

Mod Note:  Part 2 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=343671.0

Take a look at your response to me in this thread.  I have seen you do the same elsewhere.  To me it all reads as explaining why you react the way you do.  That is fine and even good.  But(!) when are you going to say "I understand why I do this, I need to change this and I need to start this now so I am going to ____"?  I challenged you to figure out what you can do differently.  Instead you explained yourself to me.  You do not need to explain yourself to me.  You do not need to justify yourself.

Stop giving your power away.  You are strong and smart and full of compassion and are really driven to do the right thing.  All of those things help make you the powerful man you are.  Stop giving yopur power away.

I'm going to try to keep this short because I'm at a crucial point here.

So of all the responses made to me on this forum, yours most of all has me in a corner (in a good/necessary way) forcing me to directly face something I can't even look at long enough to identify. I'm embarrassed and feel like a moron, but I'm struggling to fill in that "____".  I have no idea what it is. I'm trying not to phone it in by saying "I won't give my power away". Is it an obvious answer everyone here is seeing except me, or is it just something I have to figure out for myself?

When I think about root and context of the "power" over me the past week, it is the guilt, hands down. So is the "____" simply making the conscious decision to absolve myself of the guilt from my FOO's pain? To say that their pain is the result of their hurtful actions that led to this point, and not my fault? Put differently, in lieu of waiting for a divine "It's OK to drop the guilt and be happy", to just, drop the guilt?

Please forgive me if I'm missing the mark. Change sounds great, and I'm trying to work it out. And even if the above isn't the answer, it's still quite the precipice for me.

[ProudDad12]

Mod Note:  Part 2 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=343671.0

Take a look at your response to me in this thread.  I have seen you do the same elsewhere.  To me it all reads as explaining why you react the way you do.  That is fine and even good.  But(!) when are you going to say "I understand why I do this, I need to change this and I need to start this now so I am going to ____"?  I challenged you to figure out what you can do differently.  Instead you explained yourself to me.  You do not need to explain yourself to me.  You do not need to justify yourself.

Stop giving your power away.  You are strong and smart and full of compassion and are really driven to do the right thing.  All of those things help make you the powerful man you are.  Stop giving yopur power away.

I'm going to try to keep this short because I'm at a crucial point here.

So of all the responses made to me on this forum, yours most of all has me in a corner (in a good/necessary way) forcing me to directly face something I can't even look at long enough to identify. I'm embarrassed and feel like a moron, but I'm struggling to fill in that "____".  I have no idea what it is. I'm trying not to phone it in by saying "I won't give my power away". Is it an obvious answer everyone here is seeing except me, or is it just something I have to figure out for myself?

When I think about root and context of the "power" over me the past week, it is the guilt, hands down. So is the "____" simply making the conscious decision to absolve myself of the guilt from my FOO's pain? To say that their pain is the result of their hurtful actions that led to this point, and not my fault? Put differently, in lieu of waiting for a divine "It's OK to drop the guilt and be happy", to just, drop the guilt?

Please forgive me if I'm missing the mark. Change sounds great, and I'm trying to work it out. And even if the above isn't the answer, it's still quite the precipice for me.

[Harri]

I'm going to try to keep this short because I'm at a crucial point here.

Yes, this is a crucial point.  It is okay though.  We've got you.  We've got your back here.   

So of all the responses made to me on this forum, yours most of all has me in a corner (in a good/necessary way) forcing me to directly face something I can't even look at long enough to identify.

This is natural I think, or at least I experience it when trying to work on an issue I can't see that clearly.  It is okay to slow down.  I don't know if it works for you but I put things on the back burner of my mind and let ideas simmer, trusting that I will get it, whatever 'it' is.  Like you, I don't always know.  It is frustrating as all heck isn't it?

I'm embarrassed and feel like a moron,

Been there and done that and I am sure I will feel that way again PD.   I am glad you were honest about this.  I am not sure have the answer for you in terms of what ___ means for you but I will walk beside you, along with everyone else here and try to figure it out with you.  I swear I am not being a jerk about it.  If I knew I would tell you.  A mentor of mine once said to me Harri the answer is within you".  Well, I just wanted to spit when I heard that.    It is okay to get frustrated, angry and feel like a moron.  Feelings just are.  You don't need to act on them.  Just see them, talk about them for a bit without judging your feelings or yourself for having them.  Just observe them and release them. 

but I'm struggling to fill in that "____".  I have no idea what it is. I'm trying not to phone it in by saying "I won't give my power away". Is it an obvious answer everyone here is seeing except me, or is it just something I have to figure out for myself?

I do think you need to figure it out on your own but I also believe we can help you.  I have no idea if others can see the answer.  Probably not.  I do think something is holding you to the guilt and keeping you from self-empowerment.

When I think about root and context of the "power" over me the past week, it is the guilt, hands down. So is the "____" simply making the conscious decision to absolve myself of the guilt from my FOO's pain?

Maybe.  When I read your posts, how you describe what you want and even what your wife wants, it seems to me your expectations are not in line with the capabilities of your family members.  For example, you want an equitable relationship where they can own their behaviors and apologize?  Not realistic.  Perfectly natural to want it and hope for, but it is not going to happen.

To say that their pain is the result of their hurtful actions that led to this point, and not my fault? Put differently, in lieu of waiting for a divine "It's OK to drop the guilt and be happy", to just, drop the guilt?

I think so, yes.  I also know it is far more complex than just 'dropping the guilt'.  So walk us through what happens when you feel the guilt.  Step by step.  What is your instinct?  What sort of words do you use to talk to yourself about it?  What do you do?

Please forgive me if I'm missing the mark. Change sounds great, and I'm trying to work it out. And even if the above isn't the answer, it's still quite the precipice for me.

PD, I know you are trying and I see progress in you even though I may not have said so.  I would not be pushing you like this if I thought you just wanted to vent and were not trying to change things for yourself and your family. 

As you said at the beginning, this is a crucial point for you.  No pressure though.  It took a long time for you and your family to establish these dynamics.  It is going to take time to change them. 

We've got you.   

[GaGrl]

I'm so impressed by your willingness to wrestle with this.

My two cents...it's more than letting go of the guilt you feel.

I will say that, for me, it was about finding my authentic self, my Voice, and not compromising because of childhood and familial conditioning. It required that I integrate several versions of my Self so that I could be as consistent with my parents as I was with my friends, my lover, my work colleagues -- not easy, and I spent significant time in therapy.I

It was an exciting journey, actually, to the real me.

[I Am Redeemed]

Harri and Gagrl have wonderful things to think about here! So significant.

I just wanted to pop in and say that for me (and this is a work in progress), letting go of the guilt that is the string of manipulation means that I must reverse the core negative messages I learned in childhood. For me, the messages that induce guilt include "if I hurt someone's feelings, I am a bad  and selfish person", "I am responsible for protecting others from getting their feelings hurt and responsible for making them feel better if they do", and "I need to smooth things over and keep the peace because conflict is bad".

Your messages may be similar or different. I think the key is figuring out what they are and how they are false. Since you are a Christian, think of it as finding the lies the devil is telling you and replace those lies with the truth.

It takes time. Therapy has been essential for me, and I am not through it yet, but I am working on it.

Part of understanding these core messages is seeing how they lead you to be influenced by every relationship in your life. That includes your wife and your friends. If you find yourself trying to convince yourself to do things or behave or think certain ways because someone else thinks that is what you should do, and you don't know how to voice what you want, then you are under the influence of negative core messages.

[Turkish]

Personally? I was done when my mother started going after my kids. I can take a lot, I grew up with it after all, but when she started accusing my little kids, I was done, protect my primary family which is my kids since their mother left.

It was tough, since my mother had nobody, and made friends with dysfunctional people as she did my whole life and resulted in much drama.

In the end,  and looking back upon the drama of my childhood, those were her choices, not mine. As a child, how could they be? As an adult, she was an adult, so her choices were still hers, not mine, even though I rescued more than once: emotionally, logistically, financially. 

The guilt was almost overwhelming, trying something different after 40 years of doing the same.  You don't know what you don't know, and that's the challenge to try something differently.  It isn't a step into the abyss, it's a growth into a new view. 

Protect your primary family above all else. In my case, it wasn't NC, but it was a pause, then VLC.

[Notwendy]

Turkish- that was it for me too. My mother didn't go after the kids when they were very little- and I never left them unsupervised with her. When they became adolescents though, she began to enlist them as emotional caretakers, confiding in them, trying to get them to do things for her - in a controlling way. Playing helpless and waify and having people "wait on her" is a way she controlls people. My kids were raised to be respectful and to help their elders, and she was taking advantage of this to meet her own emotional needs.

She also has poor boundaries and asks invasive questions and shares TMI about herself. She would also try to get them alone with her and badmouth me to them. She seemed to think it was OK to enlist them "against me". She's even tried to do that with my husband.

That was it. Mom did what she did to me as a kid, but there was NO WAY I would allow her to do that to my kids. I also went LC. There was a price to this. My mother takes victim perspective. I was the terrible daughter who was keeping her from her grandchildren. She painted me black to her family and my father who got angry at me.

To me it felt I was in a position of having to choose my kids or my Dad. I love them both, but my responsibility is to my kids first.  For my Dad, it was choose my mother or me. He chose my mother, I chose my kids.

Thankfully they are older now and have good boundaries with her. She still texts them and calls them "behind my back" and seems quite pleased that she has "pulled the wool over my eyes" as if I don't know she does this. However, they are good at ignoring this if they are busy and also politely reply to her when they choose. I think a good  way to "protect" our kids is to teach them how to have boundaries with disordered people when they are old enough to understand this, and I am glad they know how to do this with her.

[formflier]

Also realize your "blank" might not be one word..one thing.

One aspect may be realizing that you making perfectly healthy decisions for your family may result in someone else "being disappointed" (or being "hurt"). 

Finding a way to be ok with this...that's your work to do.  It seems to me that's part of your answer, what do you think?

Best,

FF

[zachira]

I apologize I have not read all the posts here. So what I am about to say may have already been said by others. Many people with BPD, seem to alternate between feeling abandonned while constantly violating their family members' boundaries to feeling abandonned while going no contact for long periods with their family members. Are there some ways to make your mother not really want to be around you? I am not suggesting doing anything mean or unethical. Would being honest with your mother and sticking to the boundaries set while staying in your calm place at some point, possibly make your mother not want to seek you out so much, possibly make her stay away for awhile? In the last few years, I rarely hear from my family members with BPD because they seem to fear me, as setting ordinary healthy boundaries coming from my calm place seems to be just too uncomfortable for them.

[ProudDad12]

Thank you everyone. Y'all have hit some solid points, and probably where I need to focus some of my efforts. I truly appreciate the support, help, and challenging me to get better.

Y'all really hit the nail on the head with the idea that in order to protect my family (or make healthy decisions for them as FF stated well), I have to hurt others (or maybe better put, others will be hurt). I was thinking yesterday how that is incompatible with my personality or "code", which puts a heavy focus on not wanting to hurt or anger others in any way (case in point, I made a mistake and cut someone off on the road a few weeks back. He honked at me, and I spent the next 10-15 minutes feeling like a complete butt-hole).

I tried to "force logic" in my head last year and outright tell myself that I can't have things both ways, and I have to prioritize. And in order to look out for my family, I need to maintain NC with my FOO (yes, some of their messages have gotten through, but I've blocked almost everything I can, and I never respond). Anyway, I think maybe I need to focus on and remind myself of this point, that yes I'm hurting them they are hurting, but not out of malicious intent but out of me trying to do what is best for my family? Because we've tried to reason with them, and they say whatever they think we want to hear in the end, but its about putting a stop to the pattern that the words never fix. I think maybe I'm saying that for my benefit more than anyone else's.

So another piece I thought about last night (this has been a very eventful week for us; may be making another post about that later)... and please help me with this, be it to redirect or continue on this thought... Anyway, I think I've come to see all this as trying to convince myself that "my actions aren't bad". It's almost like there's a switch in my head that would allow me to be at peace with myself and my actions, but I'm not allowed to touch that switch. And everyone who tries to support or encourage me by trying to make me see the reality of this don't seem to affect the switch at all. But any message from my FOO that gets through manages to lock that switch to the "My actions are bad" position. Sometimes I get to a place where I can use the logic from the previous paragraph to will/force it to the "Good" position, but if anything happens, or if I look away for too long, it switches back to "I'm bad".

ANYWAY, don't mean to get bogged back down in self analysis. I'm just trying to figure out what to work on. As hinted above, maybe that is to work on internalizing and accepting the idea that trying to do what's best for my nuclear family is going to result in my FOO being hurt, and I'm not a bad person for allowing that to happen (hopefully).

I think so, yes.  I also know it is far more complex than just 'dropping the guilt'.  So walk us through what happens when you feel the guilt.  Step by step.  What is your instinct?  What sort of words do you use to talk to yourself about it?  What do you do?
PD, I know you are trying and I see progress in you even though I may not have said so.  I would not be pushing you like this if I thought you just wanted to vent and were not trying to change things for yourself and your family.  

Promised myself I wouldn't get too deep in self-analysis but didn't want your question to get missed... When I feel guilt, usually it starts one of three ways:

1) My mind suddenly thinks about one of my FOO, be it something they said, or a mental image of one of them being really upset/sad/crying/etc.

2) I have a happy moment with one of my kids, laugh or smile, then the back of my mind says "Your parents/siblings are missing out on this! And its YOUR fault!" (I think my mind hates me )

3) A message from my FOO breaks though my barriers (e.g., Email from my dad at work yesterday... simply said "You are a real piece of work")

So at that point I start sinking in the "potty thought" pit (phrase I borrowed from a friend), and start thinking about how "yeah, all this is happening and I could maybe have done X to prevent it, or I can do Y now to fix it, and because I didn't or haven't, I'm being a bad person". Then I try to use logic to remind myself WHY we are where we are, so then it becomes a back and forth of right and wrong in my head, when I don't even know what right and wrong is anymore when in the context of my FOO.

I basically wallow in that for a while before I'm able to distract myself or life distracts me. I'm rarely able to "Force" myself out, and for the days following it takes willful effort to use the aforementioned logic to keep myself from falling back in. There's also sometimes a bit of conversing with friends or extended family to find some sort of validation for my actions to remind myself I'm not bad, but I've been shying away from that recently and just keep almost everything to myself, whether that is right or wrong. I mean I do talk to my counselor and the occasional friend.

I had gotten pretty good at getting through these things faster, or avoiding them altogether, but I find myself a bit weaker in that area recently.

Does that help? I'm really hoping I can use what I said in the first half of this post to make some sort of progress on this second half.

[Methuen]

Hey PD

Three thoughts:
1) Are you a perfectionist?

He honked at me, and I spent the next 10-15 minutes feeling like a complete butt-hole.

2)  What brings you joy and a sense of peace or fulfillment?

Are you making time for these things in your life?  Where I'm going with this, is towards the reminder of how important self-care is.  I didn't figure that out until I was 57.  Maybe you can be smarter than me.  Make time for yourself and the activities that bring you joy, so that you can be fully present for your family as they grow up.  I did OK there, but I could have done a lot better if I had taken better care of myself as my children were growing up.  Back then I thought by sacrificing myself, I would be a better mother.  It was faulty thinking brought about by a BPD mom.

3)  In reading the last post in this thread, I can read how much effort you are putting into learning and reflection and analysis.  I immediately thought of the CBT workbook I am putt-putting my way through:  Mind Over Mood.  Have you heard of it?
https://www.amazon.ca/Mind-Over-Mood-Second-Changing/dp/1462520421
I have found it super helpful as it helps us discover our own faulty thinking, or "hot thoughts", and maybe it could be a short-cut to the finish line for you...possibly?

[ProudDad12]

1) Are you a perfectionist?

Oh yes, very much so. And saying I'm my own biggest critic is a massive understatement. It serves me well in some areas, but definitely not in others, and really hasn't helped the premature greying!

2)  What brings you joy and a sense of peace or fulfillment?

Are you making time for these things in your life?  Where I'm going with this, is towards the reminder of how important self-care is.  I didn't figure that out until I was 57.  

This is going to sound silly, but a big source of joy is being around and laughing with my friends. Not much ability for that these days though!

The other and bigger one is getting quality wife and kids (especially when their behavior is good). That one is taking more effort these days too since we're somewhat in "survival of sanity" mode with the shelter at home conditions right now.

Anyway, yeah I'm trying to self care as much as I can, which is requiring a little improvising these days!

3)  In reading the last post in this thread, I can read how much effort you are putting into learning and reflection and analysis.  I immediately thought of the CBT workbook I am putt-putting my way through:  Mind Over Mood.  Have you heard of it?
https://www.amazon.ca/Mind-Over-Mood-Second-Changing/dp/1462520421
I have found it super helpful as it helps us discover our own faulty thinking, or "hot thoughts", and maybe it could be a short-cut to the finish line for you...possibly?

I haven't heard of that, I'll check that out! I like having things like this to focus on when my mind wants to get bogged down in the FOG.

Thanks!

[Methuen]

1) Are you a perfectionist?

Oh yes, very much so. And saying I'm my own biggest critic is a massive understatement.

Ever thought of lowering your standards a wee bit?  About 20 years ago my H came up with a saying "90% is good enough".  It was always a joke between us, but we used that joke as reminder to each other a lot over our married life.  The kids are out of the nest now, and we are mostly retired, but we still occasionally pull that line out of the tool chest whenever we need it.  We like the humour in it also.  That private joke is my gift to you.  Consider it possibly as a tool for self-care too...even in the context of accidentally cutting off another driver, but then feeling like a butt-hole for 15 min.  Remember 90% is good enough; nobody can be perfect, so maybe you only have to feel like a butt-hole for 1 minute

This is going to sound silly, but a big source of joy is being around and laughing with my friends. Not much ability for that these days though!

The other and bigger one is getting quality wife and kids (especially when their behavior is good). That one is taking more effort these days too since we're somewhat in "survival of sanity" mode with the shelter at home conditions right now.

These are awesome!  A little harder to do the first one these days perhaps with Covid 19 and physical distancing, but social media works too.  In addition to these things, is there anything that brings you joy that is 100% about just you?  Reading?  Sports?  Spending time on a hobby?  It doesn't  have to be a lot of time, because life is crazy busy when you have a family and a job, but my biggest regret at the age of 57, is having no clue how important self-care was when I was raising my family.  Taking better care of myself could have made me a more joyful and less stressed person to be around, and that would have been super helpful to both my H and my kids.  I would have been more "present" for them.  Just another way of looking at how to be a good parent...  I was raised by my uBPD mom to believe that to be a good person I had to sacrifice myself and my own needs.  I believe that was misguided.  Just planting a little seed there.

[I Am Redeemed]

hi PD.

I can see that you are very much like me in that you are struggling with separating the sadness of this situation from feeling guilty about it. For me, sadness and guilt were all meshed together and it was a very sticky process attempting to separate the two.

Perhaps, when your Inner Critic starts in on you, telling you that it's your fault that your family members are hurting, you can say to yourself (out loud works best) "Yes, this situation is sad, But I don't have to feel guilty about it!"

It is hard to pull our emotional brain in line with our logical brain sometimes, so making these kind of statements out loud to yourself (or write them down, over and over) can help us to give the positive message more strength than the negative one.

By doing this, you can help your emotional self to acknowledge and process the sadness of the situation as a whole while releasing yourself from the burden of feeling guilty. It may take a while, but if you keep at it, it may begin to feel true for you instead of you just knowing logically that it is true.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi ProudDad,  

I've read some of your posts before but never formally introduced myself, so I want to say hi!

A couple days ago I read your post that described the guilt you feel, and how pulled you are in so many directions. I've been contemplating on it. It was relatively easy for me to understand what you were describing, and you have gotten a lot of affirmation from the rest of the PSI family of how much we can all relate to what you're experiencing. It is TOUGH in all capital letters. These are well learned beliefs that are so ingrained in us from all those years of growing up with a pwBPD.

I recently saw a video about abuse, and the woman shared some pictures that she had colored; they were so profound. Each crayon colored picture with stick figures seemed as if a child had drawn them, but she was a grown adult. My heart, my inner wounded child, could so relate to those drawings, and when I read about your pull of guilt, it reminded me of where I am, what I recently came to understand, and what would it look like if I drew a crayon picture to describe it?

If I were to color myself, I would see myself half black and half red (not sure why the red but maybe I have an idea). I would be on one side of the picture, and my uBPDm on the other side. Her words towards me look like black solid clouds pouring out, representing the verbal abuse directed towards me, demanding that I do or be what she wanted. The red colored half of me is the part of me that feels pulled to go to her, to do what she demands, even though I'm going into the darkness (maybe my life feels as if it is bleeding out as seen in the red color?). If I stay and don't do/go to her, then I'm black or bad. Those are my only two options. Others here have mentioned the same feeling, of being bad.

The good news, however, is that off to one side of me another option springs up. It is the color green, for growth, and it represents that part of me that is growing and learning and understanding what healthy looks like now. So the pull for me to go towards the green color is now stronger than the pull to go to what my mom wants. We are literally being pulled in three ways: either we are "good" in our BPD's mind and go towards them, or we are "bad" to not do what they want and have LC or NC, or we are "healthier" now and take greater care of ourselves.

It's really normal what you are experiencing. There is absolutely no shame in what you are going through. I do think that it is very important to realize that you and I aren't good or bad as their opinion suggests and leads us to believe. We are becoming healthy and whole and learning who we are, as opposed to who they want us to be.  Make your choices based on you and healthiness, not on guilt and pain.

 
Wools

 

[ProudDad12]

So, I thought I had responded to a couple of these, but apparently I never finished or something. Trying again!

Methuen, thanks for the advice! Yeah, I'll definitely keep the 90% is good enough in mind. I have strong suspicions that my "I have to be perfect" mentality is tied to my childhood with my parents, but that's another rabbit hole for another day. But should give me that much more cause for "kicking the habit".

I've been trying to take care of myself as well, but unfortunately one of my biggest hobbies is unavailable to me while we shelter in place. So that one is on hold, other than the small beating my wallet is taking from online shopping as an "alternate outlet" for it. I do like reading and video games, but it's been surprisingly tricky to carve out time for them. It's controlled chaos with the kids home 24/7, then by the time we get them to bed we're wiped! Not making excuses, we're doing what we can. And recognizing the silver lining like getting to enjoy our backyard more and going on more family walks. The tricky part is every time one of our kids does something funny or adorable, as I smile or laugh my mind sabotages me with a "You're keeping your FOO away from this!". My wife reminds me I have to re-frame it with a "They are keeping themselves away from this with their behavior and actions". Still sad, but eases the burden.

I Am Redeemed, you are so right! And what you said goes right along with my previous comment. "Meshed together" is such a spot on way to put it. As you said, I hope if I stick with it it will get better. Maybe at some point it can become a mental muscle memory, and eventually a re-framed heart/mind that makes even the muscle memory unnecessary!

Woolspinner2000, Hi! Thank you for the insight! That is very interesting about the crayons. Both in the content and the "child-like" aspect to it. I don't know how many times I've told my wife certain aspects of this stuff has me feeling like a confused child. And your description of your drawing really resonates with me. Your description of green makes me think about the freedom and peace that I feel when my mind isn't occupying itself thinking about my family. At risk of hyperbole, it's like the world is opening up and anything is possible. I'm curious to try the crayon thing myself and see what turns up. Goodness knows there are enough of the things laying around our house!

Thank you everyone for the encouragement and support. I'm not posting regularly (it takes me so dang long to get my thoughts out!), but I'm here a lot reading. I'm so grateful for the ability to connect with others who understand.

[drained1996]

So, I thought I had responded to a couple of these, but apparently I never finished or something. Trying again!

Methuen, thanks for the advice! Yeah, I'll definitely keep the 90% is good enough in mind.

I

have strong suspicions that my "I have to be perfect" mentality is tied to my childhood with my parents, but that's another rabbit hole for another day.

[

/quote] But should give me that much more cause for "kicking the habit".

I've been trying to take care of myself as well, but unfortunately one of my biggest hobbies is unavailable to me while we shelter in place. So that one is on hold, other than the small beating my wallet is taking from online shopping as an "alternate outlet" for it. I do like reading and video games, but it's been surprisingly tricky to carve out time for them. It's controlled chaos with the kids home 24/7, then by the time we get them to bed we're wiped! Not making excuses, we're doing what we can. And recognizing the silver lining like getting to enjoy our backyard more and going on more family walks. The tricky part is every time one of our kids does something funny or adorable, as I smile or laugh my mind sabotages me with a "You're keeping your FOO away from this!". My wife reminds me I have to re-frame it with a "They are keeping themselves away from this with their behavior and actions". Still sad, but eases the burden.

I Am Redeemed, you are so right! And what you said goes right along with my previous comment. "Meshed together" is such a spot on way to put it. As you said, I hope if I stick with it it will get better. Maybe at some point it can become a mental muscle memory, and eventually a re-framed heart/mind that makes even the muscle memory unnecessary!

Woolspinner2000, Hi! Thank you for the insight! That is very interesting about the crayons. Both in the content and the "child-like" aspect to it. I don't know how many times I've told my wife certain aspects of this stuff has me feeling like a confused child. And your description of your drawing really resonates with me. Your description of green makes me think about the freedom and peace that I feel when my mind isn't occupying itself thinking about my family. At risk of hyperbole, it's like the world is opening up and anything is possible. I'm curious to try the crayon thing myself and see what turns up. Goodness knows there are enough of the things laying around our house!

Thank you everyone for the encouragement and support. I'm not posting regularly (it takes me so dang long to get my thoughts out!), but I'm here a lot reading. I'm so grateful for the ability to connect with others who understand.

[Methuen]

The tricky part is every time one of our kids does something funny or adorable, as I smile or laugh my mind sabotages me with a "You're keeping your FOO away from this!"

How about reframing it:  "It's too bad their maladaptive behaviors keep them away from this!"

Is it time PD to put the responsibility where it belongs?

Then maybe you will find your way to taking off the "guilt" necklace and sending it off with the next load of recycling?